Growing up I was always very inquisitive. I remember in second grade taking a flashlight apart, then using wires I found in the garage to wire it back up so the light would come just using the batteries and the light bulb. A few years later while hiking in the mountains behind Church Collage of Hawaii (now BYU-H) my friends and I found a bunch of old World War Two radios abandoned in a gully. While my friends wanted to continue hiking, I wanted to play with them, take them apart, and figure out what all the funny looking parts were.
The wiring of my brain has served me well as a mechanical engineer, but has been a hindrance in my religious journey. From a young age I always wondered how Noah could have gotten all those animals on the ark. I also wanted a reason for everything. If I was asked to do something, it better of had a logical reason to do it. My father saying “because I said so” was not logical! This caused me more than one spanking or being sent to my room. I also spent more than my share of time sitting in the corner in the classroom as punishment, or visiting the principal’s office.
Even as an adult I have this problem. I’ve learned to curb my logical thinking when dealing with my dear wife. But as an example of my logical thinking, when Pres Hinckley asked the women to wear just one pierced earring, my first thought was if it is OK for women to pierce their ears, it must be Ok for men.
Likewise the piercing of the body for multiple rings in the ears, in the nose, even in the tongue. Can they possibly think that is beautiful? It is a passing fancy, but its effects can be permanent. Some have gone to such extremes that the ring had to be removed by surgery. The First Presidency and the Quorum of the Twelve have declared that we discourage tattoos and also “the piercing of the body for other than medical purposes.” We do not, however, take any position “on the minimal piercing of the ears by women for one pair of earrings”—one pair. (Pres. Hinckley in Oct 2000 General Conference)
Also I wondered how come one hole in the earlobe is OK, but two is bad? Can God really care about this? Why is a can of Coke OK, but a cup of green tea bad? It makes no logical senses. My employer pays me to find these illogical situations and fix them!
This has got me to thinking if some brains are bettered wired for religion. Do people with a less logical brain more easily accept religion? I’m a 5th generation Mormon, but there is no way I would join this church or any other as an adult if I had been raised without religion. My brain just wouldn’t have it.
Now of course there are contraries to every pattern, and there are very logical and analytical people that are very religious, but for the most part I find that working with hundreds of engineers, their religious leanings are less than the normal population. (your mileage may vary)
So if my less logical side believes in an afterlife with a benevolent God, will he judge people based on their brain wiring? Knowing all things, he’ll know that Betty Smith’s brain was wired for a religious conversion, while Beth Jones, who is an excellent architect, is pre-deposed to reject religion. Will we be judged according to their capacity to accept religion? Of course the TBM response is “Why would our Heavenly Father do that to anyone?”
Your thoughts?
Wheat & Tares 
I believe our brains are wired differently from each other and some are more predisposed to accept religion in general, or to reject it. I also believe the Lord’s judgement will take those kinds of things into account. I think that’s one of the reasons we are encouraged to not be so judgemental of each other, because we can’t see those kinds of things.
The same questions can be asked of other subjects, like: does brain wiring cause a predisposition to sexual attraction, or to political affiliation, or to anger, or to be a follower/not be a follower of the majority?
I think the answer is yes, and I am continually making an effort (often failing) to curb judgement of people whose brains may be wired differently from mine.
I have long believed people differ on their ability to have “spiritual” experiences. Take two people who read scriptures, and pray diligently. One can feel they receive confirmations or answers with those efforts while the other one doesn’t. I’ve heard church members who report it took them years before they had a spiritual confirmation, sometimes never, while others receive “inspiration” and “confirmations” daily.
Dean Hamer, a geneticist has done research in this area, identifying what has been labeled the “God gene.”
So yeah, we ought not judge others for their unbelief. God will certainly take all these factors into account.
One question I think we should be asking: from the point of view of our religion, is being hardwired for belief even a good thing? Most religious people belong to a religion that we see as, to some extent, incorrect. So most people who accept religious claims with little thought will end up accepting a lot of false and harmful beliefs, i.e. “Come to me, and for your money you shall be forgiven of your sins,” and other “false, and vain, and foolish doctrines” to use Nephi’s words.
So to speak as if believing things even when they don’t make sense is some sort of blessing is to ignore a lot of scriptural evidence to the contrary. Isaiah mocked his contemporaries for worshipping idols made with human hands – something that, in his view, was deeply irrational. And while many people hold a sincere belief in infant baptism, Mormon makes a very logical argument in Moroni 8 that their belief denies the justice of God and, unless they repent, they “must go down to hell.”
So I think we would do well to spend more time wondering whether our beliefs are true, rather than questioning whether God is unjust for favoring those who hold one set of beliefs over another. After all, Mormonism is a young religion and our spiritual ancestors are all people who found the existing religions unsatisfactory and believed that the Book of Mormon fulfilled their hunger for answers that made sense.
These are wise words BB. As someone who shares your predilections for logic here is my favorite question to ask those who put a lot of stock in a testimony born of an emotional experience.
When does it make sense, to do something, that doesn’t make sense? I asked this in a family home evening group recently and the cognitive dissonance was palpable.
And further to your point that our “brains are hard wired” I can tell you, as someone who has spent a life time studying personality psychology, that personality is a factor in our Church. In fact it could be said that we are a personality cult where those who share one critical psychological need are those most likely to remain members and they will do so even if nothing the Church does makes sense.
Maybe it is not the brain that is hardwired so much as the spirit that directs that brain.
I am much like Bishop Bill. I was always trying to find out what made things tick in my younger years but broke more than I fixed. I was a very uncoordinated kid with less than ideal fine motor skills for that type of work. And I was raised in the church. I do not know if I would have ever joined the church if I had not been raised in it. I might not still be a member if I had not had a profound spiritual experience that changed belief to conviction.
However, as I grew and gained knowledge, I came to believe that there is a logical case for a supreme being that designed and created this universe. The sort of logic that brought Don Bradley back to a belief in God from atheism. Once that premise is accepted, I feel that Christianity is the most logical of the world religions and that the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-Day Saints is the most logical of the Christian religions. Of course I am biased and it is difficult to see through that dark glass.
Glenn
Recently, 2 individuals, who were raised LDS, received Nobel prizes, one in physics and the other in economics. (Ironically, both graduated from Logan High in Utah.). As far as I know, neither is active. According to Wikipedia, one is an atheist and I think the other is agnostic.
This is obviously a small sample size, but it does suggest that there are individuals with very inquisitive minds who struggle with religion. I think that doubters can very definitely be a product of genetics, environment, and education. And they shouldn’t be judged for their spiritual journey.
Although I share a curiosity similar to Bishop Bill, my mechanical aptitude is lacking somewhat (I’ve had to become an experienced technician through sheer hard work, without any existing talent). I too am somewhat analytical, but I enjoy analyzing the contents and meaning of a short story as much as I do analyzing and troubleshooting an electrical circuit. I think an affinity for both has taken me down some interesting paths of logic.
After reading one or two studies over the years that seem to indicate most human brains are hard-wired for religion, the logical side of me has a hard time wondering how that can’t come from God. I know evolution doesn’t necessarily lead to perfection, but logic wants hard to tell me there are so many more efficient ways, at least at first glance, that nature could allow us to cope, survive, and thrive. Logic tells me that for humans to be the way they are something higher has to be involved. Although part of me does find it slightly ironic that others use logic to reject religion, I can’t really fault them for it either. I’ve also come to believe that logic isn’t necessarily a trump card. I remember reading something from G.K. Chesterton indicating that even the clinically insane can describe their world in one that logically makes sense to them. I think the trick is connecting complete rings of logic up with other ones that are larger and more encompassing, with Heavenly Father ultimately having the most encompassing and complete ring.
I’m also reminded of a favorite line from Isaac Asimov’s novel The Caves of Steel that states “A robot is logical, a human is reasonable.” I think there’s a subtle difference. I think the spiritual is a huge part of reason that cannot be separated from logic without difficulty.
Ultimately, I’d like to think the truth of the Gospel is capable of penetrating every healthy human heart and brain, but I have no doubt that Judgment will take into account every last one of our brain cells (or the lack thereof) and their arrangement.
“my first thought was if it is OK for women to pierce their ears, it must be Ok for men.”
That would seem reasonable only on the assumption (beware that word!) that men and women are identical in which case there would be no need for two words.
Unstated, but likely there, is the reason why anyone puts things in their ears, tongue, nipples, etc; WHERE do you draw the line? Where do YOU draw the line?
The words of Apostle Paul help. A thing is not “logical” of itself; many of these rules are situational ethics.1 Corinthians 8:10
“For if any man see thee which hast knowledge sit at meat in the idol’s temple, shall not the conscience of him which is weak be emboldened to eat those things which are offered to idols”
In other words, the early saints had liberty to do many things that would seem prohibited; what matters is “what matters”, that is to say, your reasons for doing a thing and the assumptions made by people observing you doing a thing.
Maori’s are tattooed, this is well known and a cultural “norm”. I am not tattooed, for me it is not a cultural norm and to go against culture sends a signal that I am at least somewhat anti-social; it is good to be bad in the minds of many.
I suspect you may be using the word “logical” where “rational” would be better. Logic is a process. A person can be extremely logical (me) and still wrong because GIGO.
“My employer pays me to find these illogical situations and fix them!”
As does mine. Cast your net wider. That is one reason why I excel at diagnostic procedures; finding the reason why a thing is the way it is. Network protocols do not have “correct” or “incorrect”; they have only agreement. Do you agree on byte ordering and the significance of a 32 bit number at the head of a packet? There’s no law says you must, it is a convention.
A girl that fills her body with spiky things is unlikely to attract or be attractive to a boy with good character who is looking to do his duty for his wife and family. He is to make a long term commitment and so is she. By going against social custom she sends a strong signal that since she does not obey social custom, well, that probably includes obedience to the duties of family. Beware!
On the other hand, I’m in favor of full disclosure and let people advertise their true natures.
“This has got me to thinking if some brains are bettered wired for religion.”
Some brains are better wired for some kinds of religion. There is not “religion” per se. What comes to mind? A scientist has religion; it is what he pursues with passion sometimes defending it even when established that he was not correct in his theory (but it was a worthy assumption).
“Do people with a less logical brain more easily accept religion?”
They more easily accept inherently conflicted and illogical religions! Lutheran, for instance, hasn’t decided yet whether Jesus was divine, so they take the fuzzy route of both at the same time and let God sort it out at the end.
“I’m a 5th generation Mormon, but there is no way I would join this church or any other as an adult if I had been raised without religion.”
I’m the zeroth generation Mormon and my mind insisted on it. Of all religions I had studied, and continue to study, Mormonism appears most logical (rational).
“there are very logical and analytical people that are very religious”
I do not consider myself “very religious” as in “pious” but I have a certain knowledge of God and some knowledge of the gospel.
“So if my less logical side believes in an afterlife with a benevolent God, will he judge people based on their brain wiring?”
I believe we will judge ourselves and choose our next life and home. This is revealed in D&C 88.
“Of course the TBM response is Why would our Heavenly Father do that to anyone?”
TBM’s seem not to understand scripture. See D&C 88. HF doesn’t “do” anything in this context. We sort ourselves in this life and the next according to our desires. Heaven is not a judgment, it is a sorting.
Thank you Bill. I lean more toward logic than emotion, and your experience is similar to mine in many ways. I loved tinkering (still do) and often questioned things. When I learned about logical fallacies in high school, I began to understand better how my own brain worked, while church became a growing source of cognitive dissonance.
I grew up in the church, but some things still baffle me. Like the bearing of testimonies. Appeals to emotion don’t sit well with me, and emotions can be manipulated or manufactured. When I hear someone publicly declare in boilerplate language that they “know the Church is true”, punctuated with sobs, it comes off as an overwrought affectation. I think we would all be much better people if we got rid of testimony meetings.
I’ve said it elsewhere, but it’s worth repeating here: I believe some people are not meant to be very religious, and they manage to be good people anyway. I can’t fully explain what the criteria are, but the demands expected of an active, recommend-holding Latter-day Saint are enough to break their spirits. Some people need to be reminded on a weekly basis not to lie, steal or cheat on a spouse. A few people, though, are naturally hardwired for goodness; they only need to be taught the basics of being a decent person once as a child and they will be good for life.
Michael 2 – You mention about the “cultural norm” for Maoris dealing with tattoos. So if in the US in say 20 years almost everyone starts getting tattoos, then it will be OK for US Saints to get tattoos then? I too have a mind like Bishop Bill. Is the prophet just to tell us exactly how many standard deviations from the normal culture we need to be?
To me it just seems something like https://www.npr.org/2018/11/06/664758057/bishop-michael-curry-wants-us-to-love-radically is the only religion I feel I can get around my engineering head.
Happy Hubby asks “So if in the US in say 20 years almost everyone starts getting tattoos, then it will be OK for US Saints to get tattoos?”
It could even become obligatory depending on the subject matter, sort of like everyone is supposed to have a picture of Jesus, even though nobody knows what he looks like (and he can disguise himself, so those few who HAVE seen him, might not be seeing him as others see him). It’s a virtue signal but Jesus words about that sort of thing is to pray in secret, fast in secret; in other words things done to be seen by the world “you have your reward”. Matthew chapter 6.
A butterfly tattoo is probably harmless, but some people cover their faces with German insignia and words (as an example) which sends a signal you might have intended but might not have intended.
“Is the prophet just to tell us exactly how many standard deviations from the normal culture we need to be?”
I am glad you asked; for it is clear that I am an authority on the prophet’s duties!
When he is not prophesying he’s just the president of a church. Since there seems to not be a big need for prophecy he doubtless spends most of his time in corporate style stuff, dress codes, building permits, things like that.
“… is the only religion I feel I can get around my engineering head.”
Hooray for the US First Amendment freedom of religion.
I suggest that brains are wired for religion simply because they are wired for sociality, and religion IS a type of sociality. I have noticed, for instance, that debates on Apple vs Microsoft (vs Linux) tend to become rancorous and exhibit many of the same phenomenon as a religious debate.
Logic has no morality nor goal nor assumptions.
Reason acknowledges driving forces (the assumptions) and relevant circumstances. Reason uses logic, logic does not use reason. Because of different assumptions and observations reasonable people can use correct logic arriving at different conclusions.
My interest in Mormonism is heavy on theoretical and weak to insignificant on the social aspects of it which tend to be highly variable and regionally specific; even within a stake one ward might be materialistic and another more spiritual. I encountered that in Virginia where social stratification is conspicuous.
Michael 2, the TBM response to some people being more likely to be religious due to brain wiring is that God would never do this. He would create all the same. The quote of “Why would our Heavenly Father do that to anyone?” is actually from BKP in general conference, in reference to homosexuals having a biological bases. BKP obviously did not understand D&C 88. But TSM did, as the quote was removed for the office written talk that is now online.
Bishop Bill, “BKP obviously did not understand D&C 88. But TSM did, as the quote was removed for the office written talk that is now online.” If I recall correctly, at the time of the editing, there was some public questioning as to who did it. I think the Newsroom/PR folks responded that BKP did the editing as was customary for GAs to edit their own conference talks. Do you have some different information/source than that about who did the editing?
JR, no inside info, just my hunch. The sentence captures BKP past statements, so it was very much in character for him to say that. He was Pres of the Q12 at the time, so only Monson out ranked him, and could have made him change it. So my guess is that Monson told him he should soften it up, and BKP did, with the PR people putting the best spin on it. Just my guess, but I guess could have some respect for the departed and put forth that maybe BKP did have a change of heart, or was touch by the spirit, and made the changes on his own!
Off topic, but, thankfully, the “sentence captures [only some] BKP past statements…” There had been much worse from on him the subject in earlier years. Another edit was also very significant. The edited version demoted the Family Proclamation from qualifying “according to scriptural definition as a revelation” to “a guide that members of the church would do well to read and to follow.” Some have wished that certain other authorities could get the same message.
If the Church is really interested in being a “big-tent” religion, it needs to make consessions to its Middle Way (progressive) members. Otherwise it is just another conservative religion.
JR,
Where can I find the reference to the original Family Proclamation status?
GES65, I think you mean not its original status, but the way BKP described it in October 2010 general conference before the editing for publication. (There are a number of differing views expressed on its more general “original status”) There are many places to find that. One of the simplest is the SLTRIB article following that conference. You can find it by searching the terms : packer proclamation guide sltrib.
BTW—I asked about green tea and bishop told me it’s fine to drink . Supposed to be good for you.