Last week I listened to a podcast on Freakonomics about traffic Roundabouts. [1] While listening to the utility of roundabouts, I came to the conclusion that Joseph Smith would have approved of roundabouts, and the church today not so much. The church today is a more traffic light focused.
Let me explain. For a traffic light, the navigation of the the signal is pretty binary. If it’s green, you go, it it’s red, you stop. There is some nuance to the yellow light, but even that can be boiled down to you just stop if you can. Navigating a traffic signal takes little thought, and really no choices, as evidenced when you drive home from work thinking about your weekend plans, get home and realize you don’t remember any of the drive home, even though you drove through four signals.
To drive through a roundabout, you need to know one rule (principle): yield to traffic already in the circle. After that its all up to you. But it takes thought and your judgment each time you approach the roundabout. Are there cars in the circle already? How fast are they going? Will they turn off before they reach the junction in which I’m about to enter? Is my speed compatible with the speed of the cars already in the circle? As you can see, it is not cut-and-dried. It takes thought and many conscious decisions for the drive. In fact, it is proving to be very difficult for the developers of autonomous vehicles to program the cars to navigate a roundabout safely. Traffic lights are easy for a self driving car, roundabout are not.
From the podcast:
I think one of the other complicating factors is that in the United States we have the most established set of transportation design guidelines compared to other countries. That’s good for the most part. But what it does is it trains our driving population to rely on the transportation system to instruct them at every move. And it causes them to put a lot of trust, whether deserved or undeserved, in the technology that’s built into our transportation system. A roundabout is a deviation from that. Because now I have to think for myself. A yield sign at every entry at a roundabout requires that a driver has to come to that yield sign and think for themselves: “Am I allowed to go? Am I not allowed to go?” So it’s uncomfortable for a driver that wants to be instructed.
So why don’t people like roundabouts? They don’t like to make all those decisions! The driver wants to be instructed! They want the government to dictate when it is safe to go (green light) and then it they need to stop (red light). In La Jolla, California, an existing roundabout was critiqued by one resident who wanted to add stop signs and speed bumps to make the roundabout more “civilized”.
You can see where this is going. When Joseph Smith was asked how he governs the members of the church, he replied “I teach them correct principles, and they govern themselves”. Much like a roundabout. The principle: yield to traffic already in the circle. Then it is up to everybody to govern themselves in the circle. In fact God himself is a roundabout guy as evidenced in D&C 54:26 “For behold, it is not meet that I should command in all things; for he that is compelled in all things, the same is a slothful and not a wise servant; wherefore he receiveth no reward”. So where did the Church lose its way? I see more of the cut-and-dried rules today than in the early church.
Take the Word of Wisdom. Originally it was a roundabout. Yield to hot drinks, and strong drinks. But you decide how to do it, what a hot drink is, and what a strong drink is. And whatever you decide is fine. Now, the WofW is a traffic light, with no room for interpretation. A red light for coffee and tea, but green for hot chocolate. Red for all alcohol, even though beer was left up to the individual back then it was a roundabout. The WofW only enforces the red lights, there is little talk of the green lights and what is permitted. Can you think of other rules in the church that have gone from roundabouts to traffic lights?
I’m not ready to throw the church under the bus on this (Don’t you love the traffic idiom?). I think the church is giving its members what they want. For the most part, they want to be told what to do. They want a line item list of “do nots” for the WofW. They like the stop signs and speed bumps, because it makes life more civilized. But not everybody is like that. If you are reading this Blog, you are most likely a traffic roundabout kind of person. If green tea has health benefits, you would like the choice to interpret “hot drinks” differently, not by commandment or constraint.
So what kind of person are you?
[1] a roundabout is like a traffic circle only smaller. A traffic circle sometimes has stop signs or signals, a roundabout only has yield signs.
Image by Gendzo Macher from Pixabay
Wheat & Tares 
All I can say is that after spending a single week driving in Italy, I was ready to tear out every traffic light possible in the U.S. when I got back. I also fell back in love with manual transmissions again. And yeah, I know I’m missing the point of the post.
When you are young and first learning how to drive, round abouts are confusing, especially with a lot of traffic.
Then when you get experienced, round abouts are typically much safer and more efficient.
An exception was driving in Paris around.the Arc de Triumphe. is is difficult to get onto the correct lane,.when there are 11 bisecting roads. For the non local, it is a greater hazard and you typically go down the wrong road just to escape.
I live in suburbia USA. there is one stretch of road where there are literally 6 round abouts in a 1 mile stretch, which is a side.road with little traffic that necessitates any round abouts. (It was planned for future growth). I think the city build them, thinking is was cheaper than installing traffic lights and the potential growth. But it is so redundant, that your love of roundabouts is tried. I also think the traffic engineer just went to a seminar on round abouts. Now my city is putting in the diamond intersections, to decrease the risk of intersection accidents and left hand turns and improve the traffic flow. The city planners are forward thinking.
My thoughts are traffic lights are better and safer for stage 2 faith journey and requires less thinking. “Do what the scriptures and the prophets tell you and you will be safe.”
Round abouts are used at stage 3, with improved mastery with stages 4 and 5. Does the church plan for future round abouts or teach us how to navigate them? Is the church aware there are diamond intersections?
Maybe flying cars will come about in the future, if we enter stage 6 and have no need for either.
For now,, If I get in a car accident I rather it be in a round about. Sometimes the traffic light intersection is the cause of the accident; but the church keeps building traditional intersections.
In the end life is about the drive and knowing there will be accidents. Be safe,, but also Be in a car that you are in control of, that gives you personally joy, and enjoy the scenery out the window.
Jesus was a round about kind of person, while the Pharisees that he preached against were very into stop lights, speed limits, and even rationing gas by dictating how far one was allowed to walk on the Sabbath.
Lots of roundabouts here in Britain. It has been noted however that with ever-increasing traffic levels over the years it has been necessary to add traffic lights to some of the roundabouts because they are just too busy and the chance of joining the flow of traffic is otherwise too small. Perhaps you can make the same analogy with a growing church and move towards traffic lights or correlation?
“ . . . realize you don’t remember any of the drive home, even though you drove through four signals.”
Whoa! I’ve done this for maybe a light or two on rare occasions, but if you’re doing this on a regular basis Bishop Bill, you’ve got me a little worried.
My European mission increased my appreciation for roundabouts. We do have one in our neighborhood, and it’s easy to tell who is using it for the first time. But honestly, I can appreciate the engineering involved in both, and recognize neither is really one size fits all in the end.
Having said that, I largely agree with you >>gasp<<. As members we sometimes want it spelled out a little too much. I would just add that some active members only look like they wanted to have it all spelled out because that’s where their self-governing led them.
Faith, the road around the Arc de Triumphe is called a traffic circle (or rotary), not quite the same as a roundabout. I have driven large traffic circles in Rome, and South Jersey. Both are crazy! I have a roundabout a few blocks from my house, and it works great.
Hedgehog, once the roundabout gets too large and they add lights, it becomes a traffic circle, with different rules. But yes, good thought on a small church in Joseph Smith’s time only needed roundabouts, and then as it grew large, needing traffic lights.
Eli, great though on “one size fits all”. There are some people like in the OP that want to be told what to do, and others that welcome the opportunity to decide for themselves. How can the church keep them all satisfied?
Bishop Bill, those traffic circles, as you call them, in Rome are insane. (This is the first time I’ve seen a distinction between the terms round about and traffic circle, and the distinction may not apply in British English vs American English.)
I like the metaphor about street lights and find roundabouts, as it applies to the church. I try to get people to appreciate roundabouts in both the literal and metaphorical sense, but it’s difficult.
BB, they’re all called roundabouts over here. And it isn’t that the roundabouts themselves got any bigger. Just they added traffic lights to already existing roundabouts ..
Bill, sincerely thank-you for the clarification on urban planning definitions, now I know. However, it does not change the analogies and problems of a one approach meets all needs and circumstances.
Excellent post. Very clever.
I think what’s also happening in the Church is that because of the Internet, many members are discovering that the traditional roads everyone is told to use (whether they have roundabouts or lights) aren’t as useful as the little dirt shortcut that someone discovered. Those of us now on the dirt road shortcut find it bumpy but very satisfying and we are wondering why more of our fellow drivers haven’t discovered it. we hope for their sakes that they discover it so that they too can enjoy the more satisfying and relevant shortcut. And we wonder if our new discovery will get more and more use as it becomes more popular with more drivers. I’m just glad I’m on it now although I wish I would have discovered it sooner. I look at the poor folks stuck in regular traffic waiting dutifully for the light to turn green while I move along on the dirt short cut. Yes, there are some bumps and my car gets a little dirty but it’s an SUV and it can handle it just fine.
This is both an observation and an analogy: when the electricity is out, the roundabout still works. It doesn’t transform into something strange, different and unknown for that intersection – like a 4-way stop. The roundabout remains the same and operates under the same principal.
Sometimes the little shortcuts Josh h references aren’t even dirt. Sometimes they’re paved, have nice rest stops and scenic overlooks, and in many cases even get us to our destination more safely, quickly, and in better spirits. Sometimes we keep traveling a path that is familiar when there is another option that is far better in so many ways. It doesn’t mean the familiar path is no longer relevant–we might want to travel it from time to time for various reasons, but we may also want to try the newer roads and find which ones help us get to our destinations and enjoy the newer scenic overlooks along the way. Some of the familiar roads have potholes we may need to avoid from time to time.
Trying to think of a workplace application – I manage a team of banking compliance officers and most are not comfortable giving their approval without a precedent in a policy manual somewhere. Furthermore, they get offended when I tell them to go with their gut and use common sense.
There is a definite relationship between traffic rules and how much trust the government has in its citizens. Or it may be some expert has convinced the government to their particular point of view.
There is a very different feeling to Germany where most highways have no speed limits, there are no signs telling you to to behave sensibly. We went to a childrens playground at the confluence of 2 rivers, there were no signs telling you not to fall in the river. There was not even a fence. There was a floatation device. There are no laws against abortion (they have half as many as America, or gay marriage. Not only is there a feeling that you are respected and trusted by your leaders, and informed to make sensible decisions, there are also real economic consequences. Would you rather drive a German car or a Chinese, Japanese, or American. Germany has a quarter the population of US but builds almost twice as many passenger cars. Their tax statements, explain % of tax for education, police, transport, etc.
In Australia our governments are obsessed with speed control, 110k (70mph) speed limit enforced with speed cameras. Our road toll is better than America, and close to Germany, but more because of drink driving rules than speed control. We also have too many signs telling us not to do things we should not need to be told. We were very impressed by Germany. We could feel the difference.
As the article says the church used to be like Germany and is now like conservative America. Do you sometimes wonder if headquarters were in a different country how different the church would be? Could we get COB moved to a German villiage of similar population to SLC. I think it would be worth the effort.
It gets ugly when we disagree on the rules of the road, i.e. leadership roulette even at the non-Bishop level. In one ward I witnessed:
1- a Cub Scout leader disqualifying a boy from the Pinewood Derby because he was a few minutes late. Dad was in the Bishopric and Mom was probably thinking about dinner.
2- a YM leader telling a boy he could not pass the Sacrament because he was a few minutes late.
De-lurking for this interesting discussion and to offer a western Canada take on roundabouts/traffic circles.
In my part of the world, the difference between a roundabout and a traffic circle is the number of lanes. Roundabouts are only one lane, while traffic circles are two or more, although I’ve never seen one with lights. Traffic circles are more challenging because if you’re driving for more than a quarter of the circle, you’re expected to be on the inside lane, and people in the outside lane are expected to yield to you when you’re exiting (accidents happen.) Traffic circles are being phased out because with high-volume traffic, people move faster with traffic lights (like Hedgehog said, this could be a correlation metaphor.)
I’ve moved further west in the last year and the area where I live now has lots of roundabouts. Two things I’ve noticed: 1) The inside curb is low to accommodate larger vehicles. They can “go up on the curb” so they can make the turns. 2) Roundabouts are just plain fun. I admit, I still mentally “wheee!” on the regular as I zip around them.
Great analogy.
The WoW is definitely an area in which members could use more of a roundabout approach. The current list of approved substances vs non-approved is how we get a ton of members addicted to sugar and energy drinks while missing out on the health benefits of coffee.
I am a traffic engineer. I can not overemphasize how much I appreciate this post.
… nto mention green tea.
My Jaguar’s sat nav refers to all roundabouts as traffic circles.
Geoff-Aus, my condolences on the Jaguar!
The Founding Fathers fought the Revolutionary War to rid this Country of European Influence. The governments of Europe then plunged the World into two wars in the last century that destroyed their own continent, as well as much of the rest of the planet. The Fathers would roll over in their graves if they could see the willing adoption of European ideas like the roundabout.
I mean, JCS has a sense of humor! What an amazing parody of himself.
Well done, sir. Much respect for that one.
I almost got hit (walking) at a roundabout today. Soured me a bit to them.
I live in a mid-sized city on the west coast. About 5 years ago the local government went on a roundabout-building spree, even awkwardly re-routing traffic on existing busy thoroughfares while the roundabouts were under construction. I enjoy having them, especially having developed appreciation for roundabouts from living in Europe years before. It feels good to keep moving, and I just can’t stand having to stop every 100 feet like I did in Southern California when I lived there during college.
My aging baby-boomer parents can’t seem to wrap their heads around roundabouts. Whenever they come to visit, they always have a frightening close call trying to navigate a roundabout, and its a miracle they are still alive. No matter how many times I’ve patiently explained the rules, it just doesn’t compute, and it doesn’t help that they have diminished reaction time in their advanced age. Whenever possible, I always offer to drive, and they are grateful. I suppose it’s not their fault that they don’t have experience with roundabouts, but is it also a lack of willingness to adapt? Perhaps people of a certain age are too “institutionalized” to learn a to negotiate a roundabout safely? I will think of this the next time I hear elderly Church leaders rail against same-sex marriage.
Bishop Bill, no need for condolences. I said it as an authorative source.
Roundabouts are for populations who can’t handle uncontrolled intersections, two perpendicular roads that cross without lights or signs directing right-of-way. At uncontrolled intersections drivers judge what is coming from the other directions and drive through or slow slightly to yield as needed. At roundabouts every driver does a little spinny dance, all by himself if there are no other cars to partner with.
The Missouri highway department has apparently fallen in love with Diverging Diamond interchanges. They’re located typically when a local road intersects with a freeway or interstate highway. Right-hand driving suddenly shifts to the left, thus making left turns onto the freeway entrance ramp much easier, then switching back tonormalcy.. It’s basically a temporary pardigm shift. These things take a bit of getting used to, but once you’re familiar with them they can make a lot of sense. Most religiouus people I know (and certainly the religious institutions they’re connected with) don’t deal well with paradigm shifts, either. Some will never accept the new way, preferring to hang on to their “old-time religion,” whatever that may mean in their particular context.
“There is a very different feeling to Germany where most highways have no speed limits, there are no signs telling you to to behave sensibly. ”
There does seem to be variations in social norms between countries and cultures. My husband deals with people in other countries as part of his job. Sometimes he finds it a little frustrating dealing with Germans because they are so fastidious–overly thorough and precise.
We had a 3-way stop intersection near us that would back-up in the mornings and afternoons due to school traffic. It was annoying. Then the county turned it into a roundabout. No more traffic back-up. Big improvement. Additionally, when the intersection was a 3-way stop, occasionally a vehicle would just blow through the intersection without stopping. Now that doesn’t happen, since traffic keeps flowing.
I tend to be more of a roundabout person.
I don’t get why the church feels the need to dictate how we dress–down to how many earrings and what color shirt we should wear.
I was hoping RMN would modernize the WoW and drop the prohibition against tea and coffee. Not because I like tea or coffee. I just thing it is stupid–especially when, for some people, it may be beneficial.
It seems that focusing on the superficial things can detract from what is really important.
I’m not holding my breath……
Elisa wrote “I almost got hit (walking) at a roundabout today. Soured me a bit to them.”
Still 100% the driver’s fault, but I do think they’re just a little less pedestrian friendly. So many drivers at a roundabout are spending way too much time determining who is coming their way and not enough on where they are going or if a pedestrian is coming the other way. With a traffic light, a pedestrian at least has a time frame in which they can be reasonably certain no car will plow over them.
I wonder where one can apply the metaphor here; using too much LDS lingo around others, not doing missionary work, being arrogant members, or simply not recognizing that while others may be missing out on an awesome ride, they’re still on a journey that has inherent value and needs to be respected? I kind of lean toward the last one.
Derek, I’m fascinated with traffic, and loved the book “Traffic: Why We Drive the Way We Do and What It Says About Us”, which you’ve probably already read.
I love the analogy. To me, the Church has been consciously moving to a “roundabout” philosophy over the last 5-10 years. It may not be as fast or as thorough as some would like, but it’s hard to not recognize the relaxation of “rules of conformity” that have been percolating. They range from mundane things like shirt colors and relaxation of strict mission rules that didn’t add to mission effectiveness.to more subtle things like changes to the temple recommend questions. “Do you wear your temple garments night and day?” vs. “Do you wear your garments as instructed in the temple?” is a definite move from strict prescription to letting the individual apply the principles himself.
I welcome the efforts to introduce more roundabouts in both our roads and in our church. Especially if they remove some of the stoplights and 4-way stop signs! Meanwhile, I’ll put up with the stoplights in hopes that improvement will happen at some point and recognize the benefits of even the annoying stoplights.
Red light for green tea, but green light for Red Bull. Never mind that the latter has twice the caffeine.
My 17-year old shredded a tire on the curb at a roundabout last weekend. But I still like them.
I think the Church has plenty of both kinds. A few weeks before our 15-yr old son with Down syndrome died (cancer), we were getting ready for church. He was feeling up to it but changed his mind as we were leaving. A bribe of pizza after church worked, but he was going in basketball shorts – end of discussion. (They say that the dictionary entry for “stubborn” has a face with Down syndrome next to it).
When we got there, he went to “his” seat on the stand to pass the sacrament. The bishop went apoptotic. “He can’t pass the sacrament dressed like that!” “We’ll get him down – but it will take a few minutes.” I’d go chat with him – he’d refuse – and I’d go back to my seat. Then a brother or mom or a sister. Lather, rinse, repeat. The bishop got positively freaked out and kept leaving the stand to demand we get him down. Just be patient. I can’t force him and he’s stronger than you are so just be patient – he’ll come down.
Finally, when he’d made his point, Josh came to sit with us with minutes to spare.
I get why the bishop was in traffic light mode. He succeeded in making a spectacle of himself. What I was surprised at was how many notes and letters and visits we got from ward members that were upset at the way the bishop had handled it. They expressed how honored they would have been to be served by their loving friend that may never have another chance.
Roundabout saints.
BeenThere, Great story about your wonderful ward members and the love they had for your son.
Been There:
Your story about your son illustrates Church interactions at their unfortunate worst (the Bishop’s reaction) and also at their Christ-like best (the supportive reactions of Ward members). Thank you.
When I was a missionary in Taiwan 1977-1979, I served in a small branch of the Church that did not have enough Aaronic Priesthood available to bless and pass the Sacrament. So one Sunday, an older man who was retired military, and who had lost his right hand in the Civil War between the Communists and Nationalists, blessed the Sacrament. As he had done many times before. He used the stump of his right hand, covered with a glove, to hold the bread in place on the tray, and tore off pieces of bread with his left hand. The First Counselor in the BP jumped up, went over to the Sacrament table, announced that because the man did not have a right hand, he could not bless the Sacrament, and physically snatched the tray away, shoved the older man aside, and completed the job. The whole thing was a shambolic spectacle. Branch members reacted with astonishment, because the old man was a beloved pillar of the small Branch.
It was so awful that I still remember the incident in full detail, 43 years later.
That incident, however small it might be in the larger scheme of things, was a major factor in making me a “Roundabout Mormon.” I was grateful we had no investigators at Church that Sunday. I have long thought of myself as a Liahona Mormon, as opposed to an Iron Rod Mormon. Tell me what the final destination is, but I am going to choose my route to get there—much like Google Maps giving me three choices for a long-distance trip.
I listened to that same podcast, and it reminded me of the driving in countries like India where it’s all about relationships and social cues rather than rules (the German way of thinking). This distinction was described in a book I read called (Mis)Reading Scripture through Western Eyes that talked about the fallacious assumptions we make when we apply our western cultural understanding to the Bible. In short, we miss the point. https://wheatandtares.org/2013/10/15/rules-vs-relationships
If we are creating a self-driving car, it’s pretty clear that rules alone won’t prevent accidents and death. You can’t *just* program a car to stop at red lights and go at green lights. You also have to monitor the proximity of cars around you, determine their speed and trajectory, and understand these complex interactions, anticipating the actions of other cars. When you over-rely on rules, you get into situations where the rules are ambiguous or not followed by others, or you have a new, unsure driver behaving in unpredictable ways. That’s where the rules just don’t work. I suppose they work when you are the only driver. Not when there is a community of drivers. The roundabout teaches you to make relational judgments. Rules are a crutch that lead to weak, self-satisfied driving shouting “I’m right!” when something goes wrong.
BeenThere, your story is going to stay with me. Thank you for being willing to share this along with the insights you share from time to time. I hope they make me a better person.
MW – thank you. That was very kind.
For your reading/viewing pleasure (maybe there’s a Southern Baptist metaphor in there somewhere):
https://www.thedrive.com/news/40328/chaos-erupts-immediately-after-northeast-kentucky-gets-its-first-roundabout?xid=fbshare&fbclid=IwAR3QpBuIlQOoYbrKtbPrSTYDNgKtQUxrpEl_CwQtQV8XlwKnOJGx_S9nZ90
Eli,
Is that posting satire? I watched the video, and I hope it is staged satire (after all, a drone was conveniently in place to record the footage). I hope that is not an honest portrayal of Kentucky driving. But if it was satire, it was great!
Ji,
Where I saw it originally was from someone who thought it was legit. Thedrive.com also seems to be a serious website, but I could be wrong. I was a little suspicious of the drone at first as well, but they are used by more and more organizations for a variety of purposes. But you’re right, one would hope Kentucky driving isn’t quite that bad overall.
There is a whole other angle to this metaphor. Roundabouts work better if you drive on the left side of the road. Which of course is not the right side.
The whole purpose of a roundabout is that you don’t stop, just blend in with the person alresdy on the roundabout having rite of way. If you stop you might as well have a stop 4 way stop sign.
Iast time we were in South Africa they had an absolute give way to the right rule. So you are doing 80mph on a 4 lane road and a tractor approaches from the right on a side road. All the people on the highway have to stop to let the tractor cross. Lots of emergency stops from 80, and lots of rear enders.
Having survived the chaotic introduction of roundabouts in rural Maryland in the mid 2000s, I suspect this is NOT satire. Many people in the US freak out at roundabouts. I also lived in Thailand in the 1990s, when its first section of limited-access freeway opened, and was appalled to see black tire skid marks going all the way to the top of 5-foot high Jersey Barriers, many times. Driving on sidewalks was common in Taiwan in the late 1990s. There is nothing like seeing pedestrians diving for cover as a car barrels down on them, on the sidewalk. (I saw this a few times, with my own eyes.) And then there is the apochryphal story of the first two automobiles in Kansas crashing in to each other, in the very early 1900s.
Gotta love it ….
The last time I had an Uber driver negotiate the circle around Paris’ Arc de Triomphe (without even a near mishap as far as I could tell), he explained there are “no rules” as well as no lanes. Not for the faint-hearted!
Actually I suppose there is one rule — the direction around the circle.
Geoff says, “Roundabouts work better if you drive on the left side of the road.”
Does this have something to do with toilets flushing in the opposite directions in southern and northern hemispheres?
Sorry, I just don’t see how roundabouts can be easier in one direction vs the other. That is, unless the driver is on the wrong side of the vehicle, which is almost never the case. Virtually all cars in countries with right-side driving have the driver in the left, and Vice-Versa for left-driving countries.
“This is both an observation and an analogy: when the electricity is out, the roundabout still works. It doesn’t transform into something strange, different and unknown for that intersection – like a 4-way stop. The roundabout remains the same and operates under the same principal.”
This comment has deep relevance for the church.
We can take an authoritarian approach, focus on strict obedience, motivate out of fear, and keep people in the church. But these people will never learn to navigate a roundabout.
We can take an authoritative approach, teach correct principles (as Joseph Smith suggested), motivate out of the one desire each person has to do good. Some of these people may leave the church if we’re not taking the fear-based approach, but if they do leave they will be better equipped to navigate the roundabouts they encounter.
Is our goal to keep people in the church or is it to help them create the foundations to live good and productive lives?
@Steve Carlson, thank you for your thought provoking comment