For my pre-dissertation research (not a thesis but a research project to somehow prove that the dissertation process isn’t going to be a disaster), I am conducting an outcome study on a psychoeducational group for couples, based on the book “Hold Me Tight.” Emotionally Focused Couple Therapy, which the book is based on, has been included in many studies, with results suggesting that it can move roughly 7/10 couples from significant distress to “recovery” (on this statistical measure), and help 9/10 couples improve their relationship. Of course, the skill of the specific therapist is crucial.
Many effective couple therapists are available in many parts of the country. I have been to couple therapy with my wife, despite the fact that we were not significantly “distressed” or nearing a divorce. We wanted to 
improve our relationship. It helped in ways we could not have imagined. One “let’s just see how this is” session turned into 16 relationship-changing appointments.
Despite the apparent fact that good couple therapy can change both good and bad relationships for the better, many couples don’t go. Often times there is one partner who is more adamant about not going. Why is this? For some it’s an insurance problem, and they just can’t afford it out of pocket. I have talked to many friends and acquaintances, however, who just won’t consider it, even though they have the time and the money.
For my study, I am going to recruit couples who normally would not consider marriage counseling as a means to improve their relationship. I have come to realize that while some reluctant spouses may change their minds or go just to appease their spouse (and many of them engage in the process once they attend a few sessions), there are so many couples who will never utilize this resource. There are probably many “marriage retreats” or weekend communication classes, or just a lot of books to read, but does all this stuff really help? Can it ever be as effective as therapy? Will couples who attend the group then be more likely to try therapy?
My question for you, if you have not been to a marriage counselor befo
re: What is holding you back? At what point would you change your mind (if ever)? If you have a desire to go, what is holding your spouse back? Would you or they be more likely to try something if it was an 8-week 2 hour class rather than “marriage counseling?” Don’t hold anything back – tell me what you think about marriage counseling/couple therapy, why you haven’t gone, or why you think it’s a waste of time or money.
Wheat & Tares 
I don’t get the reason why someone would want to go to a marriage counsellor if there are only but few problems in that person’s marriage. That implies that if problems come up, that person is not capable of his own ability to fix the problem between him or her and their spouse. I am not discounting the importance of marriage counsellors. I am saying that people need to work things out for themselves first.
My ex-wife didn’t want to go to couple’s therapy, but I think it was because she didn’t want to be married anymore and went once with me at my insistence just to humor me.
I think for some introducing an outside, third party into a relationship can be interpreted an admission of failure or inadequacy on some level, hence the reluctance.
Dan hit it right on the money. People are often too anxious to have others solve their problems.
I would definitely consider going to a “class” but never couple’s “therapy.” Therapy implies that something is WRONG and there is terrible social stigma associated with that, even in this day and age.
Dan (and Henry) – thanks for the input. I think your view is VERY typical… i.e. self-reliance, fix things yourself, not good to ask for help unless you really need it…
brent – yeah, some people do feel like they’ve “failed” if they have to see a counselor.
GeorgeAnne – Good to know! I see your point – when my wife and I went, some (not all!) people in our family kind of asked, “um, so what’s wrong? Are you okay?”
Here’s the issue I’m having – I want to see how effective things can be in an “educational” or “class” setting. I think it’s limited to some extent though. Also, what many people do not realize (and this is just my opinion, based on my personal experience, and being a couple therapist) is that the right kind of marriage counseling can take a marriage that is already pretty good (i.e. as Dan implies) and improve it a lot. I’m wondering if it’s even possible to promote a change in society where couple therapists are seen not only as “we’ve failed or are really broken and don’t know what else to do” fixers, but also as consultants – for example, not unlike financial consultants, or even personal trainers (for those who are trying to achieve something significant on the physical level). You can only take your own relationship so far, even if it’s a really good one.
Maybe I need to develop a new type of non-therapy called “marriage consulting?”
Or, perhaps I need to do more marketing (in the future) on why exactly counseling is relevant and useful, even for good marriages?
Or, maybe just see if this class works…
I’d go, but only now that Emotion Focused Therapists are about. I have significant reservations about the effectiveness of couple therapy, but it does appear that EFT is actually doing some good. I’d prefer therapy over a group. Talking about my relationship problems in front of a bunch of people does not sound appealing. But wait — that’s not what you’re doing in the group, right? It’s more like a class, yes?
M.A. – Yes, the burden is on therapists and researchers to show that it works.
For the class, they will talk to each other in their dyads for sure, and then after those exercises, there will be group discussion, but that will all be on a volunteer basis. It seems that most people actually warm up and talk with the group once it’s safe enough. They would NOT be required to though…
The format for each class session is – A brief lecture on the content, watching a video of a couple regarding the topic for that week/how they improved, etc., exercises as a couple, group discussion (not necessarily all personal, but can be), and then they have homework each time. According to Sue (Johnson), the effectiveness of this group is similar to EFT – how engaged the couples get in it, the depth of their here-and-now experiencing is crucial.
My husband and I have a really good relationship, but I have considered couples counseling many times. Not because I want someone to “fix” my relationship, but because why not go to an expert who can help make my marriage (and probably other relationships) better? Take it to the next level? The main reason why we have not? Time (and money to a lesser extent – we can afford it but it still hurts to spend the money) Why do we expect that we know all the answers and can “work things out” on our own and attach a stigma to those who are strong and smart enough to accept help?
We’ve been to couples counseling before, back when I was in college. It was free for students. I think it might be helpful to go back, but we don’t have the funds to do so.
adamf [5]
“thanks for the input. I think your view is VERY typical”
You seem to look down on self-reliance. But that’s understandable. A baker doesn’t want you to bake your own bread either.
#11 – Whoops, yeah, perhaps the use of the word “typical” is condescending. I’m used to using it in an academic setting, in which it does not have a negative connotation. Perhaps here I should say, “your view is one that many people share.”
Without self-reliance (or in this case, dyadic-reliance) we’d be really hurting as a society. To extend your baker analogy, what if it wasn’t a “baker” but a “bread-making consultant” and say you wanted to improve your bread making skills. Maybe a little help from a professional could help you do that, NOT replace self-reliance.
The real issue here may be that some people view getting outside help and having self-reliance as mutually exclusive.
As another example, some people, if building a house, may want to seek out some professional help for certain aspects of the process. Others may try to do it all on their own. My question then for you Bishop Rick (or others), is what KIND of help would you be okay with? What kind of assistance does not intrude on one’s sense of self-reliance?
For example, most people don’t avoid the dentist out of some sense of self-reliance… or someone building their house might get outside help…
#5 Yep, Adam, I think you’re on the right track. Call it relationship building/strengthening and see how people respond.
Just talk to each other! You don’t need a mediator if you are honest, kind, and understanding in your discussions with your spouse. Now if that communication isn’t working, I’m all for seeking help.
Dan – good point, sometimes that communication isn’t working. I would also add that for some people, that communication is working at maybe a B or B+ level, and it has been that way for years. I think in some cases, therapy can move that B to an A- or better…
While on the other hand, if people wait too long until things drop from a B to a C or a D, it can be a LOT more difficult to make changes, even WITH the help of a therapist.
Why haven’t we gone?
#1 For me it is the cost. We always have a high deductible and who wants to pay $1000 for it? My husband would have been very reluctant, but I probably could have talked him into it.
Now we could “afford” it but we are doing so well I’d rather one of my kids take piano lessons with that money or save it for retirement.
#2 I have paid for therapy once for my daughter, once session for me, plus a few free for me and I was NEVER impressed. They always made me talk about my family which is interesting (and I enjoy it) but that is something I can do with anyone I have a conversation with. I believe that ONE sentence ONE therapist said helped me ONCE. But I’m sure out of all those 5 hours if I’d talked to a friend for that same amount of time she’d have said something useful too. So I am not impressed with therapy. Pay $1000 for nothing?
However, my marriage is extremely important to me so I would consider it far earlier than I would ever consider divorce. But would it be too late? And would it actually help me and my somewhat reluctant husband?
I don’t go because I don’t need to.
I’m always right and my wife knows that.
Just kidding in [18].
If I really felt that way, I would be a sexist patriarchal suit.
jks – you bring up some really important points. The cost can be a huge problem. Also, it is the responsibility of those in the profession (both researchers and clinicians) to make it useful and relevant, and to back that up with evidence. There are many counselors who aren’t effective, regardless of what “methods” they use. The key is to find the right person. The therapist my wife and I saw (in Washington at the time, she’s retired now though) was amazing. There are many great therapists, some okay, and some just aren’t going to help. Some even make it worse. I’ve probably been in all of those categories as an intern over the past few years. So yeah, if you can find the right therapist, who knows what they’re doing, it can really help. EFT is, according to research, VERY effective at helping couples change when the male partner is “somewhat” reluctant, actually.
BR 19 – where have I heard that before… 😀
As for “being right” – actually, on a more serious note, I hear that all the time. I have found that the more “I’m right” is explicit or brought up in a session, the worse the relationship is. I don’t know if that’s causation, but generally it seems to be a trait of unhappy couples that they talk about right-ness.
I thought you would appreciate that one.
The effectiveness issue is one of the most frustrating aspects of mental/emotional. relationship health aid. Both chemical and therapy. Is this working? How do I tell? I have had a handful of therapists over the years for depression, and while I don’t think any has been harmful, it is very difficult to gauge how helpful a given therapist has been. There is very rarely a quick fix for these problems, so how long do you give a particular therapy or drug before assuming it isn’t effective? That has been and would be the next biggest challenge to deciding to get help, after the expense.
I have recently wanted to go to a marriage counselor as we’ve been having some major difference that are causing problems. I even started looking into it and contacted a couple of counselors to find out information. For me the bottom line was the cost. I’m not saying I don’t think the money is worth it, it’s a matter of having those kind of extra funds as disposable income. I also think my husband was less enthusiastic about the idea than I was, though he was willing to go if that is what I wanted. Things are a little better now, so the urgency I felt earlier is not there.
Good points Derek – much of that responsibility is on therapists and researchers as well. There are many ways to track progress that are heavily based in research. For example, at one place I work right now, we use some measures every session that are plugged into a computer program, which track the progress and give you suggestions or warnings if the therapy isn’t helping, or is not likely to help. Many therapists DO NOT use stuff like that though. I’m planning to, once I have a private practice at some point.
With couple therapy, the couple needs to know basically what the process is, what the goals of therapy are, how can they know when things are getting better, etc. etc. With many particular therapy models there are benchmarks to guide when progress is being made in the process.
Julie – check out the book I mentioned in the post – Hold Me Tight.
Adam:
My wife are considering it, at my wife’s insistence. The main crux of our marital “problems” are how my liberal gospel views conflict with her “orthodox” views. She’s mentioned, in the past, that the differences we have on religious matters is one thing she’d feel OK divorcing me over.
So, my question is, in relation to that link you provided, how exactly do you tell if someone is going to be good, bad or indifferent without laying cash out on the line in a session or multiple sessions? All I want out of a session(s) would not be to tell me I’m right (nor would I ask that), but to provide my wife with another viewpoint that my views might not be worth breaking the marriage + kids up over.
In Mormonism it’s much more complicated (I feel) than regular marriages because we’re indoctrinated from a very young age that temple marriage is the pinnacle (or close thereto) of our mortal lives. Therefore, the minute one member of the marriage does something to challenge the orthodox view of temple marriage, then that member becomes unworthy of marriage and a problem to the marriage.
John – very good questions. The religious issue can be a big problem for couples… a good therapist can work with that, or any other BIG issues. Send me an email if you want more specific direction on finding a therapist. With some direction, it is more likely that you can find someone who will work out. Sometimes it doesn’t work out, and not all “EFT” therapists are good either. A neighbor of mine recently tried counseling (now getting a divorce) and it was a disaster. So yeah, the therapist needs to know what they’re doing, have a clear map of the process to help couples repair, and needs to be a good fit with you. What they’re doing should be based in research. Sometimes you can tell this in just a few sessions. It’s best to try to find the best person available in the first place. Shoot me an email… shenpawarrior@gmail.com
“For example, at one place I work right now, we use some measures every session that are plugged into a computer program, which track the progress and give you suggestions or warnings if the therapy isn’t helping, or is not likely to help.”
Adam,
I’m curious how this would work. Can you point to a link about it?
There are at least two solid measures for this aspect that I know of, for individual therapy…
One was actually created by a professor at BYU – Michael Lambert. He’s highly-esteemed in the field for his work (for good reason as well, he’s done a TON of research). A legend for sure: http://www.oqmeasures.com/
Another is by some other researchers:
http://www.scottdmiller.com/?q=node/6
Thanks Adam.
No prob.
I should add, for everyone here, that I have little to no financial investment in promoting counseling as something for everyone. I’m looking more into a career in academia, with only part-time clinical work. I honestly feel a drive for this, not unlike a fired-up missionary. I proselyte. 🙂
My wife and I have not been to marriage counseling, per se, but we have seen counselors together for more than one of our kids, and learned quite a bit through that process about our own relationship. We also have each seen therapists separately for specific issues.
Frankly, for us, I think it never occurred to us to add marital counseling to our list of interfaces with therapists. Our marriage is terrific.
That said, we do seek out information on how to improve the marriage, communication, etc.
I remember a number of years ago a member of our stake presidency mentioned in his Sat evening talk that he and his wife had benefited greatly from couples therapy. It caused many in the room to do a double take. He assured the group there was nothing “wrong”, but that they were trying to strengthen their marriage — similar to what you are discussing here.
Well, aside from money, time is even more of a problem for many people, as is the weight of negative experience.
I had to deal with a teen (as a part of being in a grief group) who had been to counseling following the death of a sibling and a sexual assault. The counselor wanted to focus on problems they had with their parents who the teen saw as their only support in the world, and had no interest in discussing the other issues which she saw as insignificant compared to the child/parent problems every teen must have.
Or another who went for some counseling and was told that there was no help for their problems, they just had to accept the problems as a part of who they were (that therapist was fired and the the individual received useful and effective counseling).
Or my friend’s wife who went to see a counselor and then heard back from the relief society president that the counselor, rather than talk to the patient, had called up the bishop, eq and rf for a conference on how she really did not need her medication but just needed to be more faithful and pray more.
Seems that lots and lots of counselors promise that their method is scientific, works and people should pay for it. I can throw a rock and hit three counselors with their hands out standing around looking for business.
It is hard for a lay person to tell which ones are reliable and which, well, you know.
Adam, this is all very interesting. When my husband and I needed the help the worst, we would never have considered it because of the financial cost. We can afford it now, but I think a class would be more mutually acceptable to us than private therapy sessions.
The biggest conflict in our 38 years of marriage has always been our different views of gender roles. When we have even remotely considered counseling, we’ve dismissed it because I would not feel comfortable with a male counselor and my husband would not feel comfortable with a female counselor. My daughter and her husband are currently seeing a (male) therapist together and she is (not surprisingly) having the same issue. She says she has to close her eyes so she doesn’t see the suit in front of her when she’s talking. I guess DH and I should have worked these things out year ago so our kids wouldn’t have to.
I have to cast my vote with “negative experience”.
My son and ex-daughter-in-law went to three different therapists, two male and one female, one LDS and two not, for one session each. All three said basically the same thing:
“Well, ‘Jane’, you have such deep-seated issues that I would like to meet with you alone for several sessions to work out these problems before I meet with you and ‘Joe’ together.”
This made ‘Jane’ feel like she was being assigned blame for all the failures in the marriage, which immediately put her on the defensive- and sent them both looking for a different counselor.
Is this the 21st-century state of the art?
My wife and I have not been to marriage counseling, but we know many people who have (with mixed results). We feel like we have a positive, happy marriage, not without problems, but only with small problems that we have fortunately been able to handle quickly, humbly, and on our own.
I would not hesitate to go to a marriage counselor if I felt we had issues that we were not dealing with adequately on our own (and I believe my wife would feel the same). I feel that marriage counseling is a resource and a tool that some may need, and some may just want. For us, we choose to spend our money and time on different things right now.
If it matters, we were married in the temple 25 years ago, and we have eight children. Like someone above pointed out, we have been in counseling with our children a few times, and that has always helped us personally as well. And we DO read a lot of books that deal with topics of marriage (such as The Peacegiver and other similar books). Some of the those books have made a big impact on us.
Catherine, yeah, I don’t wear a suit. 🙂
The gender issues are interesting though. I haven’t given that enough thought… in terms of gender of the counselor. I’m more of a “feminine” man so I think I fit well working with both genders.
Matthew – Wow no kidding. All three of those therapists made a BIG mistake, I think. Individual counseling CAN be very beneficial for personal and relationship stuff. HOWEVER, it is a common mistake that poor therapists make to say to couples “we need to work individually.” What they’re REALLY saying is, “I don’t know really how to work with couples.” 21st-century research suggests that if you split the sessions up to individual, outcomes won’t be as good. It’s RELATIONSHIP therapy. That being said, many couple therapists will see clients individually maybe once or twice during the entire duration, to assess for addictions, affairs, abuse, or just to look at what may be causing impasses in the middle of therapy. However, those are few and far between. Any couple therapist who knows what they are doing won’t break up the couple in the room.
Brother Q – thanks for the input… I need to check out that book.
Call me crazy (and I am =] ) but after a really difficult first marriage, something that was important to me in subsequent relationships was a man’s attitude towards therapy. If he was open to counseling, it suggested to me a humility and lack of ego that were beneficial in building a healthy relationship. In my own experience, a guy that would go to therapy seemed to care more about the relationship than about appearances
Our obstacles would be one, that we live in a location where it is very difficult to find a babysitter. (Perhaps if we could overcome that, then we would have even fewer issues that would be amenable to counseling). Second is that my wife would not go for it. She is too private, has kept too much early life pain bottled up and learned to cope in that manner, and too frugal.
So, we life with some occasional periods of conflict/miscommunication that are not resolved as efficiently as they could be if we were to benefit from the type of experience Adam and his wife had. There were some things during our first year of marriage that I had no choice but to say ‘we need to talk about this’. I had to wait, wait, wait, and wait and ask several times before answers would come. I think that was more painful than a couple of days of not speaking to each other every few months. 🙂
don’t know mo – I think that’s a pretty good thing to find out early on while dating… before things are serious. It’s a great test, just by watching the other person’s reaction to the question. If it’s a least, “well, I never thought of that… sounds interesting” then it may be okay. Anything more negative than that and you’ll probably never go to therapy if you need to.
Rigel – You’re not alone. I have heard almost that same story from other people… not just one spouse bottling things up to cope with fear and other things, but also one person saying “we need to do this” and asking the other over and over… Also, you’re a pursuer! Like me! 😀
I wrote a post on MM sometime back on pursuers vs. withdrawers… I should dig that up.
A number of comments on this thread relate to couples who are concerned about either the time or the expense of counselling/therapy. For what it’s worth, one thing my wife and I have tried to do, with varying degrees of success, is to read various books on marriage/relationships together and discuss them. In addition to Hold Me Tight, which was referenced in the original post, here are four others I highly recommend:
1) The Five Love Languages (Chapman)
2) His Needs, Her Needs
3) The Seven Principles for Making Marriage Work: A Practical Guide from the Country’s Foremost Relationship Expert (Gottman)
4) Couples (Carlfred Broderick – this is out of print but you can still find it used and it’s very good)
We’ve fallen out of the habit over the past couple of months, but we try to read a couple of chapters out of one of these books and then sit down alone and discuss them once per week, usually on a Sunday night. Much cheaper than counselling, and probably just as effective. It has helped our relationship and helped us to understand each other. Nobody will agree with everything in all of the books, but they are helpful tools to construct a discussion around.
When you look at the libraries of books on the subject, some people view counseling (or Self-Help books for that matter) as just another person’s opinion, but nobody really knows any real answers to relationships, books are a dime a dozen because anyone can guess at it and try to make a buck off of publishing it. Real results come when you work on it. Some people prefer to work on it by themselves rather than pay hundreds to someone else to give common sense.
Well, for full disclosure, I’m not married, so yeah.
But just seeing some of the responses here, I can already see three perceptual problems.
1) Marital counseling or therapy sounds like something to fix major problems, not as something to go from good to great (so the first issue might be to find a way to remove the negative stigma…or broaden the perception of the field.)
2) Some people here seem to be saying, “Well, my spouse and I can work our problems by ourselves — why would we go to a counselor?”
So, it seems that the skillsets needed to make a good marriage or a great marriage are expected to be known by the married couple.
Let’s contrast this with other things: the skillsets required for good financial planning or tax planning are not expected to be known by the person/family/group for whom the planning is to be done. The planner/consultant is viewed as someone with specific knowledge that the average person probably wouldn’t have.
So, from a marketing standpoint, marriage counselors would need to point out (somehow) that hey — communication is difficult. Relationships are difficult. Even though we appear to communicate and build relationships every day (whereas we generally don’t research tax law every day), one may not naturally pick up on best practices in an every day context, so counseling may still be helpful even if things are “good.”
3) …um…I forgot.
No, I remember!
3) The third perceptual problem is that, whatever people think about the ability to acquire the skills to make marriages work (is it attainable? is it easy? is it something you can do on your own?), people tend to have a low view on the ability of a counselor to transfer these skills or to assess these skills.
So, I think you see it in psychiatry and therapy in other contexts…people say, “My therapist doesn’t know what the heck he is doing/ my psychiatrist can’t even prescribe anything that works for me.” There are people here who say, “How do I get a good counselor?” because the understood premise is — it’s REALLY hit-or-miss. Certification, degrees, and training don’t guarantee any proficiency.
(I think this is somewhat different in other professions. Yes, there are bad accountants and lawyers and what-not, but I don’t think as many people think choosing a helpful tax counsultant is as “hit-or-miss” as they might find choosing a therapist.)
I am a licensed therapist and one point to consider is that often couples wait until things are bad, beyond repair. Most of these problems started much smaller. Couples I see early on often only take a few sessions and make tremendous progress. Couples who wait too long often have reached a point of no return.
Yes, therapy does sometimes seem very hit-or-miss. But, in the defense of the psychological and psychiatric professions, we’re talking about a subject which is far more complex than what a plumber, a computer programmer, an accountant, or a lawyer does. The mind is so incredibly complex, and we still are only scratching the surface in terms of our understanding of how it works (and, from a religious/metaphysical perspective, how to account for the interactions between the physical brain itself and the spirit). There are so many subtle variables when it comes to our mental, emotional, and relationship health. I’m not sure that there isn’t the something of the same issue when it comes to other professions (I went through a few different auto mechanics before I settled on one as competent and trustworthy), but as frustrating as it is, I accept as inevitable the “hit-or-miss” nature of therapists.
And thinking about ldspsygen’s comment, I think that the emphasis on faith in LDS culture leads to some of the suspicion of therapy as a tool of last resort. There is an implication in our teachings that if we are righteous–we have faith, we pray, we read our scriptures, attend services, magnify our callings, etc–the Lord will fix our personal problems. Depression, relationship issues, etc, are all evidence of sin, and can supposedly be solved by exerting more faith and being more righteous. And it can be true to a point. But all too often, all the faith in the world won’t supply the understanding and tools necessary to change certain dynamics. Seeking professional help would, for many people, be admitting a lack of faith, that the methods they’ve inferred from the religious teachings don’t work. And so people keep struggling until, as ldspsygen said, things have become disastrous.
Fascinating discussion! I don’t want to hijack the discussion, but at the same time, I’d love to add a couple questions to the mix:
(1) How would you react (in both feelings AND thoughts) if you found out that one of the members of the LDS Quorum of the Twelve had recently entered into couples therapy with his wife?
(2) What does your answer to #1 tell you about your own attitudes/beliefs toward couples therapy?
Several thoughts & questions:
As an ex-Mormon and mental health semi-professional (grad student who practices psychotherapy under supervision), I’d like to understand from where springs the idea that depression, relationship problems, and other mental/emotional problems are evidence of sin. I realize, especially in Utah, there is a crazy pressure on folks to be “perfect”, and perhaps it’s the culture that misleads them into thinking that it must be sin, and therefore shameful, and therefore the answer must be to keep it quiet but to amp up the praying. But is there any doctrine that suggests such a thing?
I’d also like to understand the composition of the marital prep classes that (at least, from my understanding) are the norm in LDS culture. Do they cover marital distress? If so, how?
On another note, I appreciated some of the LDS (and LDS-savvy) therapists at an agency where I used to work who developed relationships with local bishops (and then maintained those relationships), so if someone in the ward was having a problem that spiritual guidance alone couldn’t resolve, they would have a trusted source for LDS-friendly referrals. Not as a replacement for the spiritual guidance and support a bishop can provide, but as an adjunct. It was my understanding that most of the bishops felt quite relieved about this resource. I’m guessing there are more than a few bishops who struggle to know how to help someone with mental health problems, significant relational problems, using spiritual guidance alone. How do they know when it’s time to refer someone for mental health services? Do they receive any training?
Finally, I think Derek makes a good point. The nature of the human mind, and minds interacting (i.e., relationships) is incredibly complex. There is a move toward greater accountability among therapists to show evidence of improvement among their clients. Though this can be tricky because the current measures cannot accurately measure outcome for some kinds of problems and treatment. Regardless, it can indeed be difficult to find a good therapist.
#43 – Matthew73 – Gottman’s book is very good. He has some others as well. All based on his significant body of research over the past 30 years. Another solid book is “Reconcilable Differences” by Neil Jacobson and Andrew Christensen. “Self-Therapy” by Jay Early is a good one as well. The key with all these books is to do like you and your wife are doing – you discuss them. You have conversations. You share together. Nice!
#44 – Heber13 – Re: “someone else to give common sense” – Of course, much of it is just common sense at best, or harmful at worst. However, there is a lot out there that is much more than that, based in decades of research and sound theory. Also, when you’re in the fishbowl with your partner (i.e. your relationship) you don’t have an objective perspective. All the common sense in the world unfortunately cannot be implemented by those in the system. How many times do you think about someone else’s relationship or family problems and think, “well, if they’d just do x and y they could improve their relationship, it’s common sense.” Often the solutions are VERY clear as you suggest, but there are powerful reasons why those solutions are not effectively implemented. That’s where a therapist or even just a book can come in handy.
Andrew – What types of things could be done to remove the negative stigma or broaden the perception of the field? One thing I have tried to do is share my experience (e.g. the OP) in many different groups… trying to normalize it as an option. Also, I think you’re right – those in the field need to make the case for WHY and HOW exactly they can be of benefit. To me, knowing what I (think) I know, even $100+ a session for 20 sessions of emotionally focused therapy is worth more than a lot of things someone might spend $2000 on, like some home improvements, or a vacation, or (for those who have the $) golf lessons, or seeing the orthodontist (although that’s important too!).
Nick – for #1 – I would be SO excited. I would hope they would talk about it in conference. That would be SO helpful for members to hear.
M.A. (Hi M.A.!)
I actually spoke to my ward about this issue a few months ago. I think part of it is based on the idea that if you’re “righteous” or “keep the commandments” that somehow you should be happy. There is also a scripture that gets abused that says something like, if you’re in despair it’s because of sin. Some people read that is “I’m feeling depressed so it MUST be due to sin.” Think object relations – they need to blame it on themselves in order to feel in control somewhat. It’s easier to think “I’m a sinner and that’s why I’m depressed” than “I’m depressed even though I’m doing my best, and I’m not totally sure about the causes.”
I’m not sure about marital prep, but there is a 6-week marriage group course that many wards use. Often it’s not implemented very well, but recently I have seen a movement toward training the group leaders a lot more… It covers things like anger, conflict, applying the gospel in one’s marriage, etc. with at lot of influence from CBT.
Someone else will have to answer the bishop question… Most of the bishops I have worked with though learned to refer people pretty quickly under certain circumstances (e.g. addiction, significant marital distress, abuse, suicidal ideation, depression, and etc.).
Text messaging as a means of communicating when husband and wife are not speaking to each other. Is it a useful icebreaker? Yes or No.
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Derek,
I agree on the complexity point.
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Adam,
Your technique would be as good as anything I’d suggest (e.g. sharing in multiple venues to normalize)
Rigel, I respect the urgency in asking a yes or no question, but I can’t answer that with a yes or no. In my personal opinion, if the texting is done as part of a couples problematic/negative pattern (i.e. it is one step in the overall bad pattern of communication) it is probably not a good thing. Or, it could also be negative as I have seen some partners text multiple times which actually just makes things worse.
However, it seems I have actually done it myself a few times, in a sort of “it’s safer just to text something first” and get it out that way. If it’s a safe and less threatening way to communicate initially, or “break the ice” as you said, then maybe it could help! Personally I just try to monitor what happens between my wife and I right after I would do something like that. Does she feel MORE overwhelmed like I’m not giving her some space to feel calm, or is it facilitating connection in a way that she can handle. Does that make sense?
Yes. Conflict results sometimes in increased physical distancing as well as emotional distance. If someone is checking texts, a partner can circumvent the distancing and break the ice toward, hopefully, real dialogue with a text or two.
Apropos of the effectiveness of therapy, though it was not of the couple variety, the counselor/therapist/shrink (whatever the term is) I went to did not seem to be particularly effective — at the time. We just talked a lot. I really only realized how helpful it had been in hindsight. Given more time, I was really, REALLY glad I did it. I’m still reaping benefits I think.
Rigel – yeah, in my experience texting has worked as well… sometimes it’s safer/not as threatening…
Latter-day Guy – How were you able to realize it was helping in hindsight? How could you communicate that to people currently in or thinking about therapy?
Our first year of marriage was hell.
We saw a counselor- the first visit helped, the second visit was terrible- my husband and I were actually happy with each other and walked out angry. The guy seemed to want to make me dig deep and cry- as if crying meant he was accomplishing something. I saw a free counselor at BYU to get over my ‘men issues’ I had one or two sessions with him and then he had done something similar- 2 for 2 on sucky counseling experiences.
The problem with our marriage at the time was our mental states- and those needed to evolve on their own, and they did- and year 2-5 have been awesome.
There’s things we’re not doing as a couple that I know would strengthen our relationship- I know we should have a date night once a week- but I can’t remember the last date we went on because we don’t trust a babysitter- I’m not going to pay someone to tell me something I already know.
I’ve read books, and those are free- and they help.
A marriage class- we wouldn’t take it seriously, we’d probably laugh at it. A parenting class? I’m all about those.
Thanks for the comment. A few questions…
What helped about the first session?
Do you think that crying per se is something that could hinder progress, or are you just saying that inducing tears just for the sake of doing it should not be conflated with accomplishing goals in therapy? If it’s the latter, I totally agree with you. Crying just to cry does not necessarily help anything in therapy… although usually it just happens in couple therapy for many people.
Re: date nights – even if you can find time to connect in lieu of going out, that can really help.
Re – not taking a marriage class seriously – where does this stance come from? For me, I’d probably have this view about classes and etc. that I thought were silly/pointless/ineffective/”touchy-feely” but not helpful, etc. There has to be a way to market stuff like this that doesn’t come across that way… I’m hoping that if there are good results in the research that it will be supported that way – something out of a journal is a little more substantial then doing trust falls with your partner on the love cruise.
I am a strong proponent of therapy. As someone who was raised in a home with serious depression (and suffers from it themselves) – I’m a strong believer in a combination of talk therapy and medication (when needed).
The difference in my parent’s home before and after therapy was amazing. Things haven’t been all roses since then but there has been healing.
I read somewhere that therapy was cheaper than a divorce. I suspect that is true, as I’ve heard divorces are pretty expensive.
I guess that it just depends on what a person values. I think a couple can be perfectly healthy and functional without therapy (and even look like Angelina Jolie and Brad Pitt).
But the reality is, life is hard. Being in a relationship is a lot of work. Many people come into relationships with a lot of baggage. Depression, loss, dysfunctional homes, parents or grandparents with addiction issues, etc. Good therapy can help a person process all of that stuff. To work through it, to grieve and to accept and move forward.
A book I’d recommend is “The New Rules of Marriage” by Terence Real. One of the points it makes is that back in the day, just having a partner who didn’t drink, didn’t abuse the other person and who worked full time was enough. There didn’t need to be an emotional connection or fulfilled needs. Particularly since the 70s, people have been looking to their relationships to be more than just roommate or co-parent relationships.
I think going to therapy (and couples’ therapy) can be pretty scary. It is scary to take a good luck at yourself and your relationships – to evaluate what’s working and what’s not. Most people will do just about anything not to change – and that’s what a good therapist will do – will challenge you to change.
Apologies that this comment is a book – this is a subject I feel strongly about.