Donny Osmond is my age. He is an interesting guy. While he appears a true-believing conservative Mormon to the outside world, I believe he has to be somewhat nuanced in his beliefs to make it as far as he has in the show business world. He has been a guest on the Howard Stern show, which is not for the faint of heart. Years ago, I heard him on a morning radio show here in Los Angeles with two of the “Shock Jocks”. They teased him about his sex life, and he gave it right back to them. He is also a good friend of Penn Jillette, of Penn&Teller fame. Penn is a hard core atheist, yet he and Donny get along well. Recently, Donny was on the Penn&Teller Fool Us TV show, where he participated in a card trick. The card trick performed by a guest magician was fabulous, with Penn calling it probably the best filmed card trick ever. I highly recommend you watch it (click here)
Penn has a podcast called “Penn’s Sunday School”. On a recent episode, they were talking about the above card trick, and that got them to talking about Donny Osmond. Below is the conversation between Penn and his co-host Matt Donnelly. (I did this transcript myself, which is really hard and time consuming, and is not perfect, but gets the majority of words right!)
Matt: No one else as famous as Donny Osmond or those his age didn’t end up in Jail
Penn: That’s true. I think I’ve said this before, but I was sitting with Donny, a year ago or so we were sitting in a doctor’s office. We were both old guys, and we have the same cardiologist. This is Vegas, and the only two people in the waiting room were me and Donny. And I say to him “how did you end up not F$%ked up? How did that happen?” He said “I met a girl, we fell in love, and my wife got me through all of it.”
Matt: Probably the truth. But also there is probably a psychotic nature in him to stay on the level. Like I’m sure he sticks by his rules. Somebody as successful as he is and still holding it together….
Penn: It’s really funny that the one person that makes it through all that craziness, the only way we can talk about it is he must be crazy. I mean he might also just be just a really good guy, with a moral center and a moral compass, and smart, he is really smart. Put all that together, with self-control, and I think the thing we are avoiding saying is Mormonism. He probably has religion and community that is not something Michael Jackson had. I’m not saying Michael Jackson was not religious, But that Mormon community with all its craziness, and we know it’s crazy, but boy the community part of it is not. And that can hold you together, and give you strength.
Matt: Yes, I think that is it. I always say whenever I see the Mormon missionary kids on bicycles in the neighborhood I guess trying to spread the word, but they are probably just looking for other Mormons that have lemonade in their fridge. But I used to say “what a waste of time”, like they could be actually volunteering for a charity or something. But then I thought with all this crazy violence and stuff, thank goodness they have to ride with a buddy. I’m glad they are assigned to ride a bike with that guy. That is probably super helpful for them.
Penn: Well that’s one of the points of the Book of Mormon [the musical], Tre and Matt’s show that I kind of don’t agree with, but it’s also kind of true. The point of that, although they kind of make fun of all that stuff, they kind of hold on to the point that it kind of ends up making nice people. But boy is it a hard thing for me.
Matt: No I understand, with religion driving a lot of really shitty policy right now, we are not ready to give them a full pass
Penn: And overt, overt racisms and really bad stuff, but you don’t see any of that with Donny
Matt: No, and I don’t see that in my Mormon, or LDS, I don’t think they like Mormon anymore, in my LDS neighbors. There is a strength in their community
Penn: And they have lemonade in their refrigerator.
Matt: They know where they are riding, they just don’t stumble on my next door neighbor’s house.
What do you think of Donny Osmond, and his career?
How nuanced do you think Donny is?
What do you think of Penn’s observations about Mormonism?
Wheat & Tares 
You gave me a start there. I saw the title and assumed he had died.
I do not understand the purpose of this post, other than outright gossiping and some accusation of hypocrisy. “He has to be somewhat nuanced in his beliefs to make it as far as he has in the show business world.” Really? He has to be fake or inauthentic in his beliefs? “Penn is a hard core atheist, yet he and Donny get along well.” Why is that a problem? Maybe Mr Osmond is no different from any others: he is trying to make things work. Why would we suggest that he must be insincere in his faith to have succeeded in his work and to be friends with atheists? Why do we need to wonder if his faith is compromised? How is this not straight-up gossip? Talking about someone behind their back?
I just want to say thank you for talking about Donny Osmond instead of mothers on Mother’s day, and never mentioning his mother once. It would be perhaps too difficult to explain why, but I enjoyed that.
So, does our community really provide a safer more stable basis for a life? Or could you have shared other examples of people who have let their lives go off the deep end that were raised LDS?
I think within our community we have some confusion about what constitutes a good stable life and what causes it. We tend to see people as safe and saved that attend church and temple regularly and that agree with everything the prophet says. We tend to imagine that those who no longer attend are living a sinful selfish dissolute life and if they would just attend that all would be fixed. I simply don’t agree.
I think being part of our community as a child influences how think for life. I think there’s good and bad things about it.
I do tend to think our community provides a good basis for a good life, but I am suspicious that this is bias on my part. I would like to see real statistics on this but I doubt anyone has studied it with real definitions of living a good life without conflating that with church and temple attendance.
Georgis,
To me at least, and probably in this community in general, the term nuanced is a compliment. A nuanced person thinks critically and authentically about what they believe; they are definitely not insincere. To me a person who thinks in a nuanced way is the opposite of fake, inauthentic, & compromised. People who aren’t nuanced often simply aren’t allowing themselves to actually think and consider any point of view that doesn’t match what they have been told by their leaders.
A nuanced person doesn’t compromise on their own personal authority to pray, think and decide for themselves what is right for them in their lives regardless of what those in authority may say. Bishop Bill, and most people who comment here are nuanced themselves.
Bishop Bill isn’t gossiping but complimenting Donny. Being friends with an atheist isn’t referred to as negative thing here, it is a positive comment on Donny’s social flexibility.
I think a real strength of Mormonism is the community it builds. I’ve moved around a lot in my life, and every single time, I went to Church and found my tribe. Even now that I’m inactive, I have a home teacher I text with regularly. Every friend I’ve got in this neighborhood is someone I met at Church before I quit going. I’ve lived along the Wasatch Front my whole life and the community is wonderful.
The flip side of that is how devastating it is to not fit in at Church. If it was just a club, it wouldn’t be so painful and soul-crushing to realize you aren’t part of the community.
I haven’t followed the Osmonds very closely, but I’m happy for Donny – that he avoided the difficulties that often go along with someone finding fame so early in life.
And lws – that was a great reply to Georgis. I would add that “nuanced” also means that you don’t have a missionary mindset anymore. You don’t think that everyone needs the gospel to be saved and to be happy. That leaves you free to just have friendships without trying to having missionary experiences, and that makes relationships deeper because you don’t have an agenda.
I get that the comments were positive, and the OP is glad that Mr Osmond is likely a kindred spirit. I tend to prefer not to talk about people individually about what are (or can be) deeply private matters. But does one have to be nuanced in one’s views about orthodoxy to be friends with atheists? I am probably quite nuanced in many of my views, but I think that people like Gordon Hinckley were also nuanced. Still, Mr Osmond might be a private person with regard to his faith. I wouldn’t want people to make judgments about my faith in a public forum, but I have a higher sense of privacy than many.
If we were to comment on Donny Osmond’s Church status we’d be no better than the folks that meet every Sunday in PEC and Ward Council meetings who speculate on every member who doesn’t seem to conform to some preconceived standard. So I won’t do it. If Donny Osmond has commented publicly about his relationship with the Church, that’s fair game. Otherwise, this is a cheap shot post.
I had a mission companion who was really good friends with one of Donny Osmond’s sons. My companion said Donny was one of the nicest individuals he’d ever met, but admitted it may or may not just be part of keeping up appearances.
I don’t follow the Osmonds with the same amount of zeal my parents and surrounding generations do, but I’ve never seen anything from him to indicate he isn’t an active, orthodox member. I do cringe a bit at some of the behavior I’ve seen from him in interviews, but I think it’s ultimately a banter that’s necessary for the industry he’s in.
Really though, it’s not a ton different from the banter I occasionally engage in with less active or non member coworkers. They will tease me about my beliefs occasionally, but I can tease back and defend in a way that doesn’t come across as self-righteous. And ultimately, many of these moments lead to sincere admissions that what I’m doing really is probably for the best, with a validity behind the convictions that could very well be and may have to be confronted or reconciled with at some point.
The observations from Penn and Matt about Mormonism are both right and wrong. I’m generally introverted and could easily live the life of hermit if I acquired a few more outdoor skills. It’s really my sincere convictions in the Gospel of Jesus Christ that make me a contributing member of the community. I realize that for many people, it’s simply community that keeps them part of the community.
Tangent here, but P&T Fool Us is one of my favorite shows. Penn and Teller are so surprisingly kind to the magicians who appear on the show. It’s refreshing. And that particular card trick was wild!
Can we just say that Bishop Bill was using Donny as an example of how Mormonism might help you overcome challenges in life without going nuts? We don’t need to be “speculating on his faith” or gossiping to do that. I mean, the faithful Mormons use Donny and Marie as proof of Mormonism’s wonderfulness all the time. Donny is obviously a believer even with as little as I know about him and even with as little as I know about him, he is a nuanced believer in the good sense that he is true to his own values and not an unthinking prophet follower. I could give examples of his behavior that are public knowledge, but honestly let’s move the conversation away from the specific example used by BB and talk about his point of does Mormonism help people survive the hardships of life.
I don’t think it helped Marie Osmond much when her son came out gay. Or maybe she is a nuanced enough believer to put her family, love, and the well being of her son above the advice of D. Oaks.
It didn’t help me a bit when my daughter came out. Her YW leaders who had always asked me how she was doing suddenly stopped talking to me. My husband and I got no support from our church uncommunity, and although I was perfectly willing to fully accept her, I was at a loss as to how to guide her in the life complications that being LGBT entails. How do we tell the grandparents and how do we deal with all the people who judge her and us for not disowning her? But instead of any kind of support, we were unofficially banned.
And the church was very harmful to me in dealing with an abusive childhood.
The church also failed to support my family of origin when my brother was brain injured in a serious accident and the ward even refused to bring in meals or help in anyway because the bishop was an ass. He even forbid my MIL from helping. Yeah, what in hell was wrong with him? Even forbidding relatives from giving any assistance while a family member spends months hospitalized? WTH?
So, I have no idea if the church helped Donny deal with the lack of privacy of his chosen profession, because it must be hard to be in the public view and have blogs written using your life as an example. But, occupational hazard of being famous.
I have about three years of professional performing arts experience (~2 of those full-time), including regional theatre, opera, and background (extras) work on feature films. I had my fun, worked directly with one of my heroes, but was unable to sustain it as a career. I have reflected often on what it takes to “make it” in the always ultra-competitive performing arts. Four things:
1) Talent
2) Craft
3) Discipline
4) Luck
Luck, by itself, or paired with any combination of the other 3 will get you a dose of success, but it won’t keep you successful (hence, the many one-hit wonders we’ve witnessed). Yet, one can work steadily in the performing arts without ever being A-list, rich, or famous. I personally know people who do. In every case, they have talent, craft, and discipline. Craft comes through training. Discipline maintains and refines it.
So, given that outside of Mormon culture, Donny is no longer really A-list, I recognize his talent, craft, and discipline. I haven’t watched a ton of interviews, but I suspect that those same qualities play into his success in family and religion. I’ve generally enjoyed his and Marie’s output. They have worked hard and done well for themselves. Clearly, they have both embraced the realities of performance as a business, so I think it’s a given they are able to navigate a high-level of worldliness and cut-throat business tactics. I’ve also seen them both be good sports in publicity interviews that could have been awkward, and probably would be offensive to many TBMs. They make it work.
Bravo P&T, bravo BB & bravo Donny, a genuinely good man. More like him!
I have no firsthand knowledge, but I’ll wager that Donny is rather nuanced in his personal beliefs. You can’t have mainstream success in the entertainment industry these days if you maintain virulently anti-LGBTQ positions commensurate with those of DHO and other senior Church leaders. That, and he seems like a good guy who gets along with people and doesn’t openly discriminate. There is a reason you don’t see his stuff in Deseret Book alongside the Piano Guys.
The interview with Penn somewhat mischaracterizes Donny’s career successes; he has also had some notable career setbacks and failures, not always the result of his own choices. After his variety show was cancelled, he watched his career implode while his older brother Merrill ran their family business into the ground; ironically, this setback helped him make a clean break from his teen-pop image so he could re-invent himself in the Adult Contemporary space years later. He has been pretty open about his mental health struggles (though Marie’s are more well known). And he grew up with a borderline-abusive taskmaster father. I imagine his experiences and trials have shaped him into who he is today, but I can’t say whether his current success is because of, or in spite of, the gospel or the Church. And more importantly, he doesn’t make a big deal of his faith either.
What is the litmus test for nuance? Belief in BOM historicity? Belief in the Restoration?
Donny has demonstrated much self awareness of the challenge of holding to one’s moral compass while pursuing opportunities in the entertainment industry. Knowing there are risks requires recognizing there are choices one does not want to make. That Donny is willing to engage with celebrities, including those who have lifestyles and advocacy opposite of his demonstrates how comfortable Donny is with his faith and lifestyle.
My perception is Marie is much more expressive on social media about her faith in Christ, as well as her personal and family struggles. Donny is more quiet about his faith and his family. I believe both are good people and Donny especially was fortunate to realize a successful marriage in his first attempt. This alone is a big reason he has been able to keep off the tabloid pages.
@Chet, I’m pretty sure the litmus test for nuance is: if you’re not racist and not homophobic, you’re nuanced. 😉
Yes Disciple, I think you summed it up much better than what I was trying to say in my original post.
Penn and Matt’s conversation is basically my reason for staying in the church. The church does teach some crazy stuff, but ultimately I think it’s the best path to get me and my family to where we want to be. (Living great happy lives. Living authentically and with integrity. Developing our characters and living good moral lives that make the world a better place.)
I realize that you can achieve all of those outcomes without the church- but for my current situation, the church is working great at getting me those outcomes. It has worked well for my family for generations. It’s something that I’m comfortable with, and it helps me maintain good relationships with my family members. It seemed to work well for Donny Osmond. If it ain’t broke, why fix it?
If someone can show me a better path that will lead to these same outcomes, I’d be willing to consider it.
Thank you for sharing this!
Donny Osmond is nuanced! He’s just a little bit Country, and a little bit Rock-n-Roll.
My in-laws were in the temple presidency of Chicago Temple back in the 80s. “Joseph and the…Dreamcoat” was a hot thing and touring the US. At that time they were in Chicago for several months.
Donny Osmond attended the same ward as my in-laws. Their impression was that he was a good
and faithful member of the church. My Dad was outgoing and a jokester and he and Donny enjoyed kidding each other back and forth.
They saw him in the temple sometimes and once he was asked to teach the Sunday School
lesson. It was Old Testament and the story of Jacob and his sons. Donny walked into the full class dressed in his complete Joseph costume. It was a hit!
It must be hard to be a celebrity and also a regular person. People are going to talk about celebrities. I just did. But at the same time I give him grace to be normal and keep his faith and personal life private, just like we do.
Considering everything Donny has experienced in life, it’s rather remarkable that he is as “normal” and likable as he is. He seems very genuine and down-to-earth. Probably does have a good wife!
I think the point about Mormon community is such a crucial one, and it seems central to tons of discussions I’ve read in unorthodox and ex-Mormon spaces. If you fit in as a member, the community can be great. Like Janey, I’ve moved around a fair amount as an adult, and I’ve always been happy to find a welcoming Mormon community wherever I’ve gone.
But of course the downside, as again is constantly discussed, is that if you’re even a bit not in the Mormon mold, you can find yourself on the outside of the community really quickly. Not straight? Not cisgender? Facing difficulties with chronic illness, getting married, having kids? Sometimes a Mormon community will continue to include you, but lots of times they won’t.
And it seems like this is just a core lament of people as they (we–I’m on the fringes of the Church) leave. Where’s my community? I feel like so many folks like John Dehlin and John Larsen (when he was running Mormon Expression) have put effort into making ex-Mormon communities work, but it’s clearly been really hard. It’s just easier to do when you have a set of shared beliefs, and a shared experience of leaving a religion, even the same one, seems like it’s often not enough to make a robust new community.
For a non-Mormon example, this issue also makes me think of Johann Hari’s book about depression, Lost Connections. It has been several years since I read it, so I might not have this exactly right, but I think he discussed the importance of connection to community. He visited an Amish group and talked about how depression is rare when your community is so tight-knit. But like with Mormonism, there’s a downside, as the community can also be controlling and patriarchal and even cover up abuse.
I don’t know. It seems like maybe the question of how to have community while maintaining independence and not being controlled is just a fundamental dilemma that’s impossible to fully solve.
Donny stories from decades ago. I’m a year younger than Donny. When he turned 19, the church thought he would do more for bringing people into the church as a performer than as a missionary. They may have been right. Everywhere I visited as a missionary in Michigan with a female between 12 and 32 asked about Donny and had a poster in their bedroom. There was even one family whose mother (in her mid 30’s) had a dedicated Donny room filled with posters, statuettes, album covers, and a record player playing a Donny album on continuous repeat.
My parents moved to Utah while I was on my mission. I found myself in the same ward as Donny as I returned. Since we were one street over from Osmund lane (Provo), we were also in the same ward as Alan, Virl, Wayne, Jay, and Jimmy (each had their own houses – rather grand houses). Donny’s place (with his wife and newborn) was modest while he was building a bigger one on the street to the other side of mine.
Donny was on the road a lot, but we did get to meet together in elder’s quorum when he was in town. I was surprised that he didn’t know that there was such a thing as spirit prison – must have been out for that lesson.
One of my sisters babysat for Donny quite a bit and even went on tour with his family to look after the kids. He was always very kind and gentle and she thought him a good father. (Generous pay as well)
Many years after I married and moved out, Donny was assigned as a nursery worker with my mother (who passed this March). They always had a great time together. She said Donny would sing and skip around as he passed out Goldfish to the kids.
Dad was good friends with several of the older brothers and worked with Alan in the cub scouts. Humble service with no pretense and often checked in with dad when he was on the road.
My oldest daughter went to junior high with Donny’s son and they were in choir together. They had a Christmas concert that was held in the large common area. Donny was a surprise guest. He spoke of his extreme stage fright and how he struggled to deal with it and offered some tips to overcome. He was very kind and relatable. Then sang something Christmasy.
My daughter spent a lot of time at Donny’s home and he was always not only a “regular dad”, but went out of his way to make his son’s guests comfortable and facilitated the fun.
My parents moved, but ended up sharing a back fence with Donny’s wife’s parents. So they kept in touch.
The trail ran cold for a decade until another of my daughters worked as a CNA at the care facility where father George Osmund was housed. She said the brothers were there a lot visiting and spreading cheer.
Devout enough? Nuanced? I don’t know. He seems to always want to live a good life that wouldn’t bring shame on his family or the church. And yes – his wife probably makes that an easier path to follow.
Who doesn’t love the song “Soldier of Love”?