We’re going to get acquainted with David R. Hall, Chairman of Hall Labs in Provo, Utah. He’s an amazing inventor and gets his ideas from Joseph’s planned city. We’ll get more acquainted with Joseph’s plans for Independence and Kirtland.
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David: My name is David Hall. I’m the son of Tracy Hall, who was a very famous scientist. He started what I’m now running, Hall Labs, clear back in 1954. Hall Labs is really a multi-functional lab with scientists in all the disciplines. We spin off companies, really many times, even before they’re profitable, in order to have money to go on to the next fun job. So, we’re turning the money constantly, all the time. What our Apollo project is, what excites us to get up in the morning and solve another problem actually comes from what is known in the LDS culture as the plat of Zion. We’ve renamed it with our own name called New Vista. But there are so many problems to get a New Vista running, that we never run out of issues. So, we work on them one at a time, but we’ll never get them all figured out. They’ll always be there.
GT: I just want you guys to know–I’m sure you’ve never heard of David Hall before. I hadn’t heard until he reached out a couple of months ago. But I’m telling you, this is like Elon Musk and Bill Gates combined, and he’s LDS. So, that’s even better.
David: Yeah, and I don’t have nearly the money, that’s for sure. We probably have as many projects.
GT: But, the amazing number of things that you’re working on is just mind blowing. I seriously feel like we just did a tour of the future. Because, I really am amazed. I don’t think it’s an understatement to call you a visionary. Holy cow!
David: Or crazy.
GT: Visionaries are crazy. Right?
David: Right, so [they go] kind of together.
GT: The reason why I wanted to talk to you here on my podcast was, I love Independence and the city of Zion. Recently, there have been some high-resolution maps of what the original plot that Joseph Smith had in mind for Independence. It’s been amazing to me, as you said, you’ve taken this idea that Joseph Smith had, and you’re trying to solve these problems, and it’s created all these amazing new companies. First of all, can you tell us a little bit about Joseph Smith’s plans for Independence, and kind of how that’s inspiring you?
David: Well, the plans actually came when they were at Kirtland. So, they were for Kirtland first, and then secondarily, Missouri. That’s where we have forgotten what the real history was. What was happening in Kirtland in 1832 and 33 is they were getting enough people that people were starting to say, “Well, let’s build a schoolhouse or let’s build a church, or let’s do something.” Of course, the plan to build a community in Independence had already been thought of and talked about, but really, the core people were in Kirtland still when it came to that. So, Joseph Smith had probably been working on a plan since the early 1830s, after he finished the Book of Mormon, or he probably had some of the ideas when he was doing the Book of Mormon. But, when he starts to get into his studies about Enoch, he runs into the city that disappears.
David: So, you’ve got all of these thoughts about a kind of ultimate city and community environment happening. Kirtland needs something. He already has the plat that we call the plat of Zion in front of it. If you read section 94 [in the Doctrine & Covenants] carefully, it tells him that the patterns have already been given to you, and you’ve got to follow it. So, in front of them, if you go into Joseph Smith Papers, you can search the 1833 plat and see the original. Imagine they already have that in front of them when they receive Sections 94 and 95. In fact, you can’t understand sections 94 and 95 unless you put it out in front of you, and really study it. Because there’s actually some unique numbers. There’s a building number five that has a big one by it, and a building number 17 that has a big two by it. Those were the two buildings that they were commanded to build. Now, they’re sitting there looking at 24 buildings.
GT: Right. Now we’ve talked about that before on the podcast about there were really only 24 temples planned, and maybe temples isn’t the best word.
David: Temple was–that name was not used. That came into existence later. They were called houses of the Lord. The real correct name for that is community center. So, there were supposed to be 24 community buildings. By the way, the actual size of the building was three or four times what they built in Kirtland. But they got a lot of it right. They’re looking at this plat wondering what to do, and how to build the buildings.
Did you know Joseph’s original plans for Kirtland and Independence was to have 24 temples? David R. Hall, chairman of Hall Labs will tell us more about these surprising plans Joseph had.
GT: Now you say 24 presidents, I know some of them, but, I’m not sure of all of those. We’ve got a deacons quorum presidency [in the early days of the Church.] So, it’s not a bunch of 12 year-olds [like we have right now.] These were these were seasoned men.
David: There’s only 12 Deacons in a whole community of 100,000 people.
GT: Yeah, now that’s interesting. So, we got deacons quorum. We’ve got a teacher’s quorum. We’ve got a priest’s quorum. We have an elders quorum. We have a high priests quorum.
David: Yeah. If you study carefully the history of the Church, it was never meant to be centralized. That’s just in the modern age that we’ve taken that on. There were churches, and each church is a local, independent financially and politically, and large, 100,000 people totally independent. So, for instance, even in 94 and 95, and other sections that talks about setting up a church, in Independence, in Kirtland. So, you have to have a local organization for that church that’s sustainable, and doesn’t have top down problems and doesn’t have conflicts. That’s why there’s 480 unique positions. The Lord was serious when he said, “Every man has to learn his duty and stand in the office.” All right, “And I’ll prepare a place for them in his [my] house.” They all have equal offices in the House of the Lord. They all have a chair in the assembly hall that is specific [to each quorum member.]
David: And there’s 480 of them times four, because there’s four demographic groups: single men, single women, married men, married women. They are divisions, all equal. So, in 1833, we already had the answer. Not only do women get the priesthood, but single men and single women. So, right now we totally discriminate against single men. We don’t view [contributions.] They aren’t worth anything. Right?
GT: Yeah, they’re not married.
David: Polygamy would have never happened if we’d had this set up right, because the single man would have said, “No way!” It’s not just the women. The single men would have said, “This is not fair! Who am I going to marry?” Right?
GT: Alright. Okay, so deacons, teachers, priests, elders, high priests, those are five.
GT: We’ve got 19 more to go. What are some of those other 19 presidencies that we’re talking about?
David: Well, remember, the Kirtland Temple has 12 seats on one side, four rows of three, 12 on the other, four rows of three. So, that’s 24 presidents. Those are the 24 presidents. It’s eight presidencies, 24 presidents, and they all have different responsibilities. It’s not a bishopric or a presidency like we think of. So, it’s not one top dude and two lackeys. It’s three presidents, who form a presidency and they’re so different from each other, they have a different building.
David: But, they’re in a row. So, the rows of buildings, exactly match the rows of chairs.
GT: So would have three high priests presidents, and three elders quorum presidents, and three deacons presidents and teachers and–okay.
David: And three presidents over the Aaronic priesthood. It’s not a bishop. That was an add-in.
GT: Oh, yeah.
David: And three presidents or the Melchizedek priesthood. We never talked about those at the local level.
GT: Okay, so, that kind of takes care of the 24 presidencies. Are you saying–well, we’re trying to get in the single women and the single men in there? How do they fit in those?
David: You’re commanded to build two buildings, that’s four assembly halls, all the same, commanded to be exactly the same. How do you fill them? There are only four demographic groups that are equal: married man, married women, single men, single women are 25% of population each.
GT: Okay. So I’m going to make sure I understand this. One of those floors would be for single women, and they would have Melchizedek priesthood presidents?
David: And Aaronic priesthood responsibilities.
GT: That are women.
David: Yes, and single men, same thing, and married men, and married women.
GT: And that’s in Section 94 and 95?
David: You can get it all from 94 and 95 and the plat in the plan. It’s clear as a bell. So, it predicted our predicament, way back before we went silly. It’s there for us. I mean, in 1833, [it was] predicting where we’re at demographically, a vision of the future and where we need to go organizationally, and it’s not central. It’s a whole bunch of independent local systems that are big enough to matter. Our existing stakes are not big enough to matter. But, 100,000 active people filling 1920 positions, and 38 and 40 captains. I haven’t even talked about the captains, but there’s captains of Tens. So there’s more than 6000 lay ministers running this thing, out of 100,000 people.
GT: So, the idea was in both Independence and Kirtland, Joseph was going to have 100,000 people in each city.
David: Totally independent.
What do you think about David’s ideas?
Below are some links to his attempted project in Vermont. He tried to do the same in Utah — I cannot find that article but I remember reading it and realizing that it was the same dude.
Now he has a new location. Great.
With so much human misery in the world, this seems like a really poor use of resources.
Damascene, we discuss his Vermont plans in part 4. Yes, he got “toasted” for that, but what most people don’t understand is David said this is a 100-year project.
I think you’ll find his inventions truly groundbreaking. From medical devices (smart toilets that do a urinalysis constantly), to air and water purification, electric cars, green energy, food production, his accomplishments are pretty amazing. I hope you’ll give him a chance. I was SUPER impressed with his inventions and facilities in Provo, and yes, in the opening interview, he admits to being called crazy. (Crazy like a fox, perhaps.)
I’ve been the victim of HOA overreach. It’s not fun. Can you imagine the HOA that would accompany these kind of communities described above? Mixing religion with anything is dangerous. Religion mixed with the local HOA? I’d run run run.
I am very sympathetic to josh h’s thought…
Hmmmmmm…..I’m kinda/sorta thinking this is a smart (probably good) guy…..but I wouldn’t want any part of living this way! Too much of an individualist I suppose. Poppycock I say….Poppycock….
Seems like a nice guy marketing a real estate scheme by attempting to link it to Zion.
What’s clear is that he, like many others within the LDS Establishment, believes that Zion is manufactured by construction and concrete. The motto, “If you build it, they will come,” may fulfill his field of dreams, but it isn’t Zion.
The Amish do Zion a lot better than we LDS. If we could replicate what the Amish do, we’d have Zion in proximity.