Ok. Everyone predicts the announcements in the next General Conference. I thought that instead I would predict talks that won’t be given in Conference.
Dear Sisters and Brothers:
You are probably aware that a recession has been predicted for next year. I do not know if that will happen or not. But the anticipation of it will affect many things.
So, for this year, instead of paying tithing to the Church I am urging each of you to donate time and money to the charity of your choice or to individuals in need.
For this year the Church will cover its operating and other costs from investments and reserves.
By donating to charities instead you can help those in need and can help when giving is reduced because of the fear of a recession.
Think of Christ and what he would do. Look towards your neighbors and others in need. Those of you in need can help each other —and by acknowledging each other do good to their souls and yours.
I do not know what the future will bring, but I do know, paraphrasing the scripture that charity is the pure love of Christ and that whosever is found possessed of it, it will be well with them regardless of what else happens.
I leave you with this in the love of Jesus Christ. Amen.
- What things do you not expect to hear at General Conference (but wouldn’t mind if you heard them)?
- How does this compare to the lesson of the Widow’s Mite that Christ taught? Was Christ wrong not to condemn her payment?
I like your concept of tithing in kind. Christ did say, “Inasmuch as ye have done it unto one of the least of these my brethren, ye have done it unto me”.
Would love to hear something like this. While we’re at it I would love to see us grapple more seriously with Christ’s near constant condemnation of wealth in general in the New Testament. I think taking these verses seriously as individuals and a church would force us to really reconsider what it means to live the gospel. Unfortunately I think we as a culture have embraced a kind of prosperity gospel where wealth is a sign of righteous living. This mentality spills into other aspects of living a spiritual life to the point where God becomes a vending machine that will grant your worldly desires as rewards for keeping the commandments. Living the gospel should instead be a way of life that allows us to shed those worldly ambitions and achieve a higher state of living, leaving the natural man behind.
“ … where God becomes a vending machine …”
Perfect. Amen.
Something you’ll never hear in conference: “if you can’t meet your basic and necessary expenses, you’re paying too much tithing.” Rock Waterman wrote a classic essay on his blog entitled “Are we paying too much tithing.” And absolute must read if you figuring out ways to consider yourself a full tithe-payer without having calculating your tithing on the gross or net of your income, which he very convincingly argues to be far too much.
I too expect that we won’t hear talks advocating disregard for the laws of God. Spot on, brother Marsh!
The slippery slope to prosperity gospel is because we also believe in having your house in order, and unfortunately or fortunately, having your house in order means having financial security. Our founder was spectacularly bad at financial matters, and frankly his house was not in order at all. But he was charismatic and earnest and sought God’s guidance.
But think about all the things that we consider a proxy for having your “house in order” and therefore being trustworthy to be a bishop or to do other visible and prominent things in the church (either today or yesterday): not being divorced, practicing polygamy, not being in debt, having a steady income, having well behaved children, having lots of children, supporting a financially dependent wife, dressing like a business man, having free time to volunteer on church things, having enough financial stability that you won’t be tempted to Jean Valjean the church funds. These things all correlate with wealth. You can’t do them without money.
Can’t remember whether Rock Waterman was or wasn’t excommunicated. Also can’t remember whether he was a Snuffer supporter or merely a ideological ally.
Yes Rock was excommunicated and has joined Snuffer’s movement.
I agree that we won’t hear that in conference.
We also wont hear any modernization to WoW. I can imagine (only imagine) an announcement that since science has shown that coffee in moderation and tea, especially green tea, are actually good for people, that it must have been the *hot* in “hot drinks” being harmful that is mentioned in WoW. So, in accordance with modern science we are amending our understanding of WoW to emphasize that drinking your coffee or tea scalding hot causes throat cancer, but coffee and tea in moderation and at warm or cold temperatures is now allowed.
There will also not be a talk about the proper wearing of garments and a proper attitude toward them that includes correction of the ways garment wear has become twisted into things it was never meant to be. So, I don’t think we will hear any announcement that it is improper to use where adult garments cover an adult body to police “modesty” in two year olds. Or that wearing garments can be modified for medical reasons in whatever way you need them modified or that you can stop wearing them while nursing or pregnant if you have difficulty with comfort or fit. There will be no announcement that wearing garments is meant to be a positive reminder of covenants, not a hair shirt you are required to wear as torture to prove your willingness to suffer for the Lord. Even though Joseph Smith took his garments off before going to jail, we will not be given permission to decide for ourselves where and when we actually wear ours.
But it is fun to dream.
With the widow’s mite, I think it is important to remember that the widow didn’t give her mite before she bought food and paid her rent. It was all she had left over after her needs were met. This is a far cry from what the church is currently asking of poor people when it instructs them to pay tithing before buying groceries and paying rent, as if paying tithing actually magically causes there to be enough money to cover the bills. When there is barely enough to cover the basic bills, asking for tithing first is grinding the faces of the poor. And now we know that the church really does not need money, it becomes obvious that church leaders are using the name of God to get gain.
I don’t think the church will announce: “We are going to update the language in the scriptures. The King James Version of the bible used language that was archiaic at the time of translation. The difficulty level of scripture reading has increased to the point where we needed to remove the hurdle of antiquated language. The old language of our scriptures hinders missionary work and members efforts to understand the word of God. We are going to use a modern translation of the scriptures, and have an expert team modernise the language of the Book of Mormon, Doctrine and Covenants, and Pearl of Great Price.”
I’d love to hear this, but I don’t think it will happen next year.
Nicely done, Stephen. Long, Slow, Continuous Clapping! It is for all the reasons you’ve beautifully narrated – that I WILL NOT be turning my time and attention to General Conference this Spring. Perhaps….after “the Church” has lost so many….it will come to it’s senses and preach the words of Christ from the New Testament; instead of from it’s own mythology.
Few economists are predicting a recession next year. The economy’s fundamentals are pretty strong. The US economy is not as strong or stable as Trump claims but the Democrats will have a real challenge in an election year trying to convince the country that they can make things better.
I imagine we WILL hear voices condemning the “world” for finding fault in our Church building a stock pile of cash, instead of spending it on charitable causes – even though that is what charities do.
The big question is whether the market correction will occur before or after the election. Not whether one will finally occur as the deficit spending roars on.
Josiah—as for updated language that continues to roll out. The BYU projects continue to be sold through Deseret Book and have a great future I think.
I would like to see the GAs announce a slowing or stopping of new temple construction. Let’s concentrate on the living and place much less emphasis on the dead. And move the Church’s 4th mission (to help the poor) to number 1 on the list. There will be plenty of the time during the millennium to sort out the problems of the dead. God bless President Monson. During his presidency, the 4th mission was added.
Temples have turned out to be legacy items for the GAs. Something that is announced proudly during conference. Wouldn’t helping the poor be an even greater legacy? Helping the Church to focus on the poor. President Nelson could announce a “new” initiative to help ameliorate global poverty.
$100,000,000,000
Still trying to wrap my head around that astonishing figure. What next, is the Church hiding UFOs? At this point absolutely nothing surprises.
$100,000,000,000
Still trying to wrap my head around that astonishing figure. What next, is the Church hiding UFOs? At this point absolutely nothing surprises.
I’d be impressed with an announcement that tithing is paid on one’s increase. Besides all the things the church provides for GAs and MPs (and exempts them from paying tithing on)’ that includes rent and money one is saving for a down payment on a house, and then it’s mortgage; and exemptions for contributions for one’s comfortable retirement (that there is a looming crisis which will increase for succeeding generations.) Oh, and for regular members, a car for the wife, too, not only the husband (except that quality public transportation is a big part of actual sustainability).
How about announcing bishops will now send letters to the less actives telling them they’ve got 30 days to recommit to the covenants they made at baptism; otherwise we’re dropping their names from the records of the Church. And don’t come begging to your bishop that you need money for rent when you haven’t paid a damn dime in tithing or fast offerings.
You mean they’d be dropped without even having to get anything notarized or wait month after month without any real guarantee that they’ve been dropped from membership rolls?
Oh no! Do anything you want but don’t throw me in that briar patch!
Ralpo and others who are likeminded:
Your comment brings to mind Mosiah 4, “ye will not suffer that the beggar putteth up his petition to you in vain.” When we deny food assistance based on tithing payment history, are we following this directive from one of our central books of scripture, to help the needy without blaming them for their situation? And when we turn away the hungry child whose parent failed to pay tithing, are we, according to Matthew 25, failing to serve Jesus by denying help to one of the least of these? Are we earning a millstone around our neck?
I understand that the church needs to have a level of financial solvency as an institution. But $100 Billion far exceeds that. I can no longer even trust that my fast offering will go to help the needy (since there’s that new disclaimer that the church reserves the right to do whatever it wishes with my donation). I believe that now, if I wish to help those in need, my money will be better spent in a donation to the local food bank or to an international organization such as Oxfam or Doctors Without Borders (look up their limits to levels of executive compensation and it will restore your faith in humanity).
Our current policy regarding tithing is regressive, condones child neglect, and needs to change. We need to move our practice to fall in line with our scripture.
Ralpo That is a remarkably Christian concept. I suppose when the prodigal returns we should slam the door in his face too Maybe we could turn our $200 billion into $300 billion in no time
First time I’ve heard that one has to pay up front in order to receive charity. You heard it first on W&T folks.
We won’t hear that a retirement age of 72 (3 nephites) for apostles/prophets.
That climate change is the biggest problem facing us. Announced by Jack Gerrard, who earned millions as a lobbyist for big oil, and undermining all who disagreed with him particularly the environment movement. Talk about false prophet.
I’ll welcome the Prodigal with open arms when he returns; I just won’t fund his riotous living while he criticizes the Church.
I’m thinking we have a reality show here: Billionaires of Zion.
Mob Wives got nuthin on us!!!
Ralpo, what the hell?
From Quinn we know that England, Germany and a number of countries are significantly negative revenue.
The Philippines generate 2% of the cost to maintain the Church there.
On the other hand, they don’t need a new division to make charitable donations. They have one.
We know from prior posts and engagements here that due to refusal to pay sufficient bribes that less than half the projects they are willing to fund are approved by local governments in the end.
From Dr. Quinn’s most recent comments:
“I think all the dollar-amounts estimated [in the article] are lower than the reality of LDS Church’s income, especially since a few years ago, the CEO of Ensign Peak Advisers stated that there are other investment houses managing different slices of the Church’s portfolio. One of those employees in Manhattan told me in the early 1970s that “several” of NYC’s investment companies had different portfolios from the LDS Church headquarters; he added that there were similar companies with different sizes of the main portfolio in each of America’s financial centers at the time, which he specified to me as Manhattan, Boston, Chicago, and San Francisco.
The annual reports during the 21st Century by the LDS Church in England, Canada, South Africa, Tonga, the Philippines, and Australia seem to indicate that the Church has similar portfolios managed by at least one investment company in every country outside the USA where it has significant membership.”
“The $100 billion investment fund being managed by EPA is what LDS headquarters has called its “reserve fund” — since the 1940s.
The Church gave nearly half a billion in cash during 2006 to the pay for the United Kingdom’s LDS expenses beyond what the UK’s tithing brings, So I think it is reasonable to conclude that LDS headquarters sends MANY BILLIONS of those subsidies to all developing countries, all of which receive at least 90 percent of the money for their annual expenses from LDS HQ in Salt Lake City.
Likewise, even industrial countries like the United Kingdom have been receiving an average of 60 percent of their annual expenses in subsidies.
In that context, $100 billion as a reserve fund for emergencies (including worldwide depression) might last only a FEW years if such a financial crash drastically reduced tithing income.”
He puts the reserves as larger and indicated that they were only enough for a few years.
Not the perpetuity that most critics assume.
Interesting.
Stephen M, where can I find “Dr. Quinn’s most recent comments”? The SL Trib?
The Other Clark—I saw them in a Facebook post by a friend of his.
BTW, 30 some years ago 47% of the world was in extreme poverty. Now it is less than 10%. (A research biologist is talking in Church right now about gradual change).
I had no idea.
Matty….when my husband was a teacher’s quorum advisor, a bishopric member talked to his group about fast offerings and how we tried to use as little as possible in our area so we could send as much as possible to headquarters for them to disperse. There IS much need in our area! So fast offerings are off our plate!