I’m really excited to introduce Dorie Olds. You may know her more famous ex-husband, Mark Hofmann, the famous forger/murderer. In this first episode we’ll talk about how Mark manipulated her in Hofmann’s Anthon forgery. Check out our conversation!
Dorie: And he brought a book. He brought a Bible and he said to me, “Well look in this Bible.” And it’s like, “Here, look through this,” or “Look through this thing.”
And I remember thinking, “Well, I’m tired. I’m back home from work. I’m tired. I don’t really want to do that.” And I kind of put it aside. And, I remember having this funny feeling. Why do you want me to do this? Because it was like he was really insistent.
“Will you look through this?”
And so I did look through this and there in the pages was a thing that was stuck. Part of me was like, “Wow, there’s something in here.” And part of me was like, “I have a funny feeling about this. Something’s going on that I don’t understand,” in the process of that. I went to him and said, “There’s something stuck in here.”
And he’s like, “Oh, what a surprise! I wonder what that is!” You know? And of course, he’d set that up so that he’d put it in there so I would find it. I would be the provenance. It wouldn’t be him. It would be something that could be documented that in a way he had nothing to do with it because he didn’t find it. I found it, and he had just handed me this book. So that’s the story of how that [came about.] It was the Anthon Transcript and those symbols that were in there. That was glued inside. And then he took them out and he took it from there. And I was the provenance for that. I was his. He was using me to be the provenance of that story.
I also asked how Dorie met Mark?
Dorie: I was attending Utah State University. I had gone to Dixie College for two years. And then moved up to Logan and was going to do two more years there. And in the apartment complex where I lived, he lived upstairs. So I was on the second level, I think he was on third level. And so that’s how I got to know him was he lived in the same apartment complex.
GT: Ok, you didn’t have any same classes together or anything like that?
Dorie: No, I didn’t have any classes together. I didn’t know this initially, but he had broken up with his [girlfriend.] He had gotten engaged and had broken up right before school started with this woman that he was engaged to and she would come up and they would sit in, I think it was her car, sit in her car and make out and I’d watch them make out.
Dorie: So, I don’t know. It wasn’t anything that was impressed. That was the first thing was, who’s that guy and what are they doing? And how ridiculous. And you know, it wasn’t any like love at first sight. No! Or to be together. It was none of that. That took time to go to that place.
GT: So he broke up with this other woman, and then you started dating? Is there any memorable dates?
Check out her answers! What was it like to be married to Mark Hofmann? Were there deceptions while they were married? What was it like to be gaslighted by Mark? Dorie Olds answers those questions.
Dorie: Gaslighting is where, in the movie Gaslight with Ingrid Bergman and I can’t remember Charles Boyer, maybe? Charles Boyer had a plan. He had murdered Ingrid Bergman’s aunt, the character that she played. And then he was after some jewels and so he courted this woman purposely with an agenda and then he kept doing things to make her think she was crazy, to make her think that she wasn’t seeing things straight to really confuse her. And that’s what I feel like was happening with me. with Mark. On the surface it looked like certain things were happening. But underneath, I was definitely being played with and I wasn’t conscious enough initially to know. It’s like, what is wrong with me? What’s going on? Why ain’t I remembering correctly? Why aren’t I? I made it about me, and not that he was doing something to me.
He would tell his parents “Dorie made me do it,” and I didn’t know this was happening. And then I would tell something. Well, his parents say, “Well how about this and this,” and I would tell something and then Mark, later we would be by ourselves with stuff and he’d get really angry. I’d be really in trouble. He’d be yelling at me and then it was like, “Well what did I do?”
I just told the truth. Well that was the problem. Because see? He told his parents, he was already telling other people different stories, and then I would come in. I wouldn’t be prepped. I wouldn’t be told, “This is the story I’ve told because I don’t want to tell the truth about what we did. I want to make it your fault,” which is what he was doing the whole time. And so I would tell something and I wouldn’t be believed. Or it’s like I was living in this double world. Like what is going on here? Like being in Alice in Wonderland. What’s going on? I’m telling the truth. I just told him a story. Why is it that I’m in trouble? Why is it that people are mad at me? Why is it that there was this whole thing going on? It’s like what is happening?
So, I think a year after I was married, I think I got more used to it, but not totally understanding it. It wasn’t until later. It’s like, no wonder I felt crazy because I felt crazy being told these things. And people would call on the phone and they’d yell at me. “Well is Mark there?”
“Well na-na-na-na-na-na-na.” I mean, I’d get the brunt of all this anger because they’re mad at him.
And then I’d say, “Well, you need to call this person because they’re mad.”
“Oh no, they’re not mad at me. They were fine.”
Check out our conversation….. What are your thoughts concerning Dorie’s experiences and the Hofmann forgeries and bombings?