Today’s guest post is from Brother Sky.
There have been some significant events over the past eight months involving the church and how it treats people (the November policy change, sexual assault at BYU, ongoing women and the priesthood discussions, etc.) Kristine A wrote a post about a year ago about how Mormons aren’t terribly good at empathy.
According to my (admittedly limited) observations of the comments sections of various blog posts concerning the subjects mentioned above, it seems that commenters generally end up in one of two camps: those who value empathy and inclusiveness more than obedience and the importance of toeing the doctrinal line and those who value obedience and toeing the doctrinal line more than empathy and inclusiveness.
This observation is, of course, a vast oversimplification, but in my lived experience as a Mormon, it generally holds true. See the comments section at this recent BCC post for an example:
One thread of comments concerns whether one can truly be friends with homosexuals if one doesn’t believe in marriage equality.
I find myself wondering not only about what might account for these varied reactions of a given community (a group of people who I’d assume hold generally the same values) to certain topics, but also why a group of people who seem to value community so much often have a really hard time empathizing with people of the same faith who hold different views regarding these issues. In the real world, for example, it’s generally the more progressive/liberal Mormons who tend to get drowned out or shut down when they express their perspective on certain issues at church. In the bloggernacle, which skews liberal, it’s often the more doctrinally or politically conservative folks who tend to get shouted down.
A certain amount of polarization is inevitable in any community, of course, but in a community that talks so much both about being a “Zion people” and about being “united in Christ,” I wonder if the emphasis on obedience and on “knowing the church is true” becomes problematic. In a speech given at BYU more than a decade ago, Elaine Walton asserts that empathy is a way that we can connect to other people and therefore help them. She links the capacity for empathy with the giving of aid or comfort. So I wonder what the obstacles to empathy are for us, as a church community, when it comes to loving and connecting with other members of our church who may think or feel differently about certain issues. I also wonder how either empathy or productive dialogue among members is even possible regarding these seemingly divisive topics/situations.
Questions to ponder:
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What do you think is the relationship between dogma/doctrinal truth and empathy? What impact do Mormon ideas about community have on how one member might treat another member with whom they disagree?
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What is the relationship between empathy and the Mormon concept of sin? In your experience, how well or how poorly do members do when it comes to having productive conversations with other members who are on the opposite side of a given issue? Are Mormons capable of productive dialogue in these situations?
Discuss.
Wheat & Tares 
No easy answers from me. I think this dichotomy is best represented by the office of bishop, who is supposed to be both empathetic counselor and also judge-in-Israel. Would more people seek help or counsel with their problems and sins if the counselor wasn’t also the policeman/boundary patroller? I think so.
OTOH, Christ himself is described as both the judge and our advocate at the Judgement Bar, so perhaps it’s just me that sees it as a paradox.
It is a difficult thing because over arching all issues is a personal commitment to please God above being empathetic to all people. While you would think the 2 great commandments of love include empathy, there is some complexity to it, and sometimes some competing values. There is paradox. Like The Other Clark said.
If I am told by God that sin cannot be looked upon with the least degree of allowance, then it seems that there is a lack of empathy in the God that I am trying to become more like. I don’t want to be indifferent to others who have different values, but I don’t know how to not compromise my commitment to my values. These create conflicts.
I see the lack of empathy as a deficiency in people, and the lack of effectiveness in the church leaders and prophets for not teaching true gospel principles better, and not modeling empathy better.
Do they expect members to be more empathetic than the policies the church is putting out there for them to work within? I think the members follow their leaders. I feel the leaders are less empathetic to some groups.
On the other hand, and perhaps more importantly…how much empathy do I lack for the leaders? I criticize them on the internet boards. I disagree with other groups. If the bloggernacle leans towards liberal thought…is that just as lacking in empathy of the conservatives and what is so important to them that they say things that seem to hurt others? Surely they have some value they hold higher than to hurt marginalized groups of people. Am I different if I lack empathy for them?
Do I work on the beam in my eye?
I believe there is room for all of us in the church as we work through these things.
In the allegory of the tame and wild olive trees in Jacob 5, the “tame” was strengthened by the “wild”, the “wild” needed the “tame” to produce good fruit.
I think we have more empathy when we start from the position that we are all sinners.
There are real issues for us to work on. But we all have our issues. Progressive or Conservative…the paradox is that we need each other to produce good works. It would be foolish to just think the conservatives lack empathy and liberals are more empathetic. Or that liberals lack conviction towards principles, and conservatives must champion them above the need to make everyone feel good.
Labels are used to try to discuss groups and thoughts. True empathy is placing the label “sinner” on all of us, and realizing that common root we all share. Empathy matters.
Elder Maxwell said in April 1997:
“Though sinless Himself, He bore the sins of billions. Thus His empathy and mercy become fully perfected and personalized. Indeed, He thus ‘descended below all things, in that he comprehended all things.’ (D&C 88:6)”
We need empathy to become more like Him, and understand all things like He does.
Empathy matters.
Obedience matters.
It is unkind to overemphasize empathy to the point that obedience doesn’t matter. Weaponizing obedience is uncharitable.
It is unkind to overemphasize obedience to the point that empathy doesn’t matter. Weaponizing empathy is uncharitable.
Jesus showed both when he told the woman caught in adultery that he would not condemn her and telling her to sin no more.
Go and do thou likewise.
Heber13:
“True empathy is placing the label ‘sinner’ on all of us, and realizing that common root we all share.”
I think this is key. Focusing on the sinning that other people do never seemed to me to be a productive thing to do. I think God wants us to turn inward to examine our own weaknesses and outward to help other people with theirs, to bear their burdens. Empathy, I think, springs from a desire to help/support, not judge or condemn.
Empathy requires a willingness to imagine oneself in the other person’s shoes. That’s a difficult task if you have little frame of reference for doing so. It’s one thing to consider LGBT issues in the church without knowing anyone who identifies as LGBT. It’s quite another thing entirely to consider LGBT issues in the church when your kid identifies as such. You can say the same thing with other issues, like mental illness.
Empathy isn’t just a Mormon problem. Lack of empathy drives much of the racial, religious, and political tensions right now.
There is an argument among some other religious groups about the problem with the Golden Rule. It tells us to do unto others as we would have them do unto us, which limits our actions to helping people like us, people with whom we identify, people who need the same kind of solutions we do. We Christians can become adept at bringing in casseroles to wealthy middle class people, and inept at feeding people who are truly starving. To me, that argument is also about the limits of empathy.
Mary Ann,
Your comment makes me think about the link between empathy and experience. I wonder sometimes if we confuse keeping ourselves “unspotted from the world” with not making friends with anyone who’s not like us. If we do, it seems natural that we’d have less understanding for those who don’t live/believe the way that we do. And yes, lack of empathy has a pretty big hand in a number of the world’s problems.
Empathy is an emotion, not an action. A person can be genuinely empathetic with another person and yet still unable to solve the other person’s problem because of an inability. A person can be genuinely empathetic with another person and purposefully choose not to solve the other person’s problem because of more important principles or demands.
ji (#8) Is the reverse also true? i.e. Can you truly help someone without being empathetic?
Empathy has some action to it. It’s not just how we feel inside, but how we display it and communicate it to others with actions.
If you haven’t seen it yet, take a look at Jonathan Haidt’s book The Righetous Mind. He goes into psychological detail on why this exact divide (labelled here as obedience vs empathy) exists and how it plays out (particularly in politics). It’s not comfortable reading, but it is eye opening and really made me rethink how I approach others’ viewpoints.
I agree with Heber in that empathy is not solely an emotion. Empathy to me is a component of charity and certainly we wouldn’t say charity is an emotion.
I also agree that self-awareness of our own lack of perfection is important to crossing the divide. ‘I am a sinner’, can’t just be a slogan. It has to be the place from which we approach other people. Sometimes I feel like instead we church members come from ‘I am a sinner, but I’m less of one than you.’ So much hurt produced in that.
hawk: That’s a great comment. I also think it’s easy to THINK we’re being empathetic when actually we may not be since, as you point out, empathy itself is often socially codified and stratified. And it’s worth thinking about the fact that it’s hard work for most of us to really see another person as they are and as God would see them. We bring so many preconceptions to the table.
RT: Thanks for the book suggestion. Also, I think your point about “I’m a sinner” not being just a slogan is huge. I wonder if the LDS focus on concrete practices that are thought to lead to righteousness (e.g. all of the temple worthiness questions/requirements) has the unintended effect of causing people to think they’re more righteous than they actually are. As Mormons, we have a lot of programs, goals, etc. (almost like church is more of a kind of corporate/self-help program) and most members I know can get a bit smug about them (“My son’s an eagle scout”, “I read the Book of Mormon in X amount of days”, etc.).
I like the codification : “be kind.”
It’s hard to feel empathy when we’re feeling threatened. This is true not just of Mormons but of people in general. If what someone’s saying feels like criticism, mockery, diminution of things we value, or most especially, anger directed towards us, we’re likely to quit listening and quit empathizing. So, if we truly want to be empathetic, we have to quit feeling so threatened by criticism, insults, or mockery. And, if we want others to be empathetic of us, we need to not criticize so harshly or do other things which can make them feel threatened.
One thing that I think scares Mormons away from outreach is a tendency I’ve heard more and more about lately to try to stay away from “bad” people lest the spirit leave. I am not sure why this has become such a prevalent sentiment; it certainly wasn’t that way when I was growing up, and at least in my opinion, it is the opposite of the gospel message. Jesus ate with publicans, sinners, harlots, and so forth.
Just one example from a recent gospel doctrine class, someone asked if you could have the spirit if you were in a bar. I raised my hand and said “Of course you can!” People were shocked. First of all, no mention was made of why you are in the bar or what you are doing in the bar. I’m not sure you would have the spirit if you were drunkenly dancing on the bar or vomiting in a planter or something. And of course, anyone who’s been outside the US knows that bars are often just neighborhood cafes in other countries (that also serve alcohol).
Somehow we’ve gotten some crazy idea that the spirit is a Victorian lady who faints on a couch anytime anything unsavory happens nearby.
“I’ve heard more and more about lately to try to stay away from “bad” people lest the spirit leave. I am not sure why this has become such a prevalent sentiment; it certainly wasn’t that way when I was growing up”
Oh, it was prevalent in church when I was growing up in the British midlands, particularly in seminary… and it hasn’t lessened any. I thought it was weird then, and even more so when expressed by older members now. I was stunned not so long ago when a former member of our current ward was visiting after having begun church employment over in SL, and one ward member commented to him that it must be very nice for him to be able to work with church members after his previous employment. He also seemed somewhat taken aback: his previous colleagues, he assured the member, had been lovely people.
Interesting post Brother Sky.
Hedgehog, I guess that’s the advantage of growing up in Salt Lake. By the time you hit high school you’ve become quite disillusioned of the fact that being Mormon means anything about your conduct or character.
The Other Clark (no. 9),
Yes.
Heber13 in #2 said “If I am told by God that sin cannot be looked upon with the least degree of allowance, then it seems that there is a lack of empathy in the God that I am trying to become more like. I don’t want to be indifferent to others who have different values, but I don’t know how to not compromise my commitment to my values. These create conflicts.”
If one accepts that God is just, loving, and maybe knows a bit more than we do, I would that that God’s position is the most empathetic. Be cause He knows that when a person stands before Christ in the judgement seat, any sins that have not been repented of will be paid for by the sinner himself or herself.
” 15 Therefore I command you to repent—repent, lest I smite you by the rod of my mouth, and by my wrath, and by my anger, and your sufferings be sore—how sore you know not, how exquisite you know not, yea, how hard to bear you know not.
16 For behold, I, God, have suffered these things for all, that they might not suffer if they would repent;
17 But if they would not repent they must suffer even as I;
18 Which suffering caused myself, even God, the greatest of all, to tremble because of pain, and to bleed at every pore, and to suffer both body and spirit—and would that I might not drink the bitter cup, and shrink—”
And, just maybe, some of the people who are being maligned as not being as empathetic as another thinks they should be has that message in mind.
Now, Christ is the only person who can truly empathize with another. He is the only person that can truly understand how another person feels. We humans can not empathize very well, unless we have experienced that which another has gone through. A person who has never experienced chronic, debilitating depression cannot really understand the depths of despair, the loneliness, the hopelessness of a person so afflicted. They can sympathize very well though. There is a huge difference.
Brother Sky makes some subjective comments at the beginning of his blog, “it seems that commenters generally end up in one of two camps: those who value empathy and inclusiveness more than obedience and the importance of toeing the doctrinal line and those who value obedience and toeing the doctrinal line more than empathy and inclusiveness.”
Then he says “This observation is, of course, a vast oversimplification, but in my lived experience as a Mormon, it generally holds true.”
Thus, his vast over simplification becomes the general fact. I hope he will rethink his position a little bit. I hope that we can all rethink our positions a bit. Because we all really need to try to think and act more like Jesus. But sometimes we all may be guilty of thinking that my empathy is better than your empathy. I don’t know for sure though. I will get back to you when I get this darned beam out of my eye.
Glenn
Glenn,
Thanks for your comment. The subjective comments I make are indeed, subjective, so I’m not quite sure how you get from my admission about the subjective nature of my observations to “the general fact.” I explicitly state that it is my observation, meaning NOT a general fact. And I’m also not sure what you mean about re-thinking my position. Can you clarify? What is it about my position that you feel needs a re-think? Are you disagreeing about my “two camps” comment?