When telling the garden story, one person is always dumb. In the historical Christian telling, Eve was dumb because she was deceived by Satan. God punishes Eve by causing painful childbirth, and tells her she needs to submit to smart Adam who listened the first time.
A more modern telling of the story has Eve being much smarter than dumb Adam. Eve is heroic in seeing that mankind would not come without a fall, and Adam was just too dumb to see it. Mormons seem to have latched on to this more modern interpretation of the story. But in either interpretation of the story, one gender is always seen as the dumber sex. Isn’t there a way to tell the story without the expense of the other gender?
Yes. Tell it the way it is written. Both were as children, not knowing good from evil.
There is nothing in the narratives, whether it be scripture or temple, that implies either one of them were “dumb,” or stupid, or anything of the sort. That is a projection of a misguided understanding of what the fall was all about, as if by not partaking of the fruit, Adam and Eve (and somehow all mankind) would still be living in a blissful state in the Garden of Eden. In the temple narrative, God mentions that if “they” –plural — succumb to temptation, then a Savior would be provided. It took two to make it happen. (I’ve always wondered tongue in cheek what would have happened if Adam had said to Eve – “Sucks to be you. I guess they’ll have to take another rib from me and I’ll get another girlfriend.”) It was never about “dumbness.” It’s always been about agency.
I’ve always wondered tongue in cheek what would have happened if Adam had said to Eve – “Sucks to be you. I guess they’ll have to take another rib from me and I’ll get another girlfriend.” I think Guy talked about that in February when he talked about Lilith: see http://www.wheatandtares.org/15680/before-eve-lilith/
There is nothing in the narratives, whether it be scripture or temple, that implies either one of them were “dumb,” or stupid, or anything of the sort. Guy talked about that one too. We got painful childbirth because Eve was tempted: See http://www.wheatandtares.org/15705/punished-for-eve-and-not-adams-transgression/
Well, MH, sounds like the subject matter of this post has already been hashed out. I guess there really was no sexism in the garden.
The natural implications of gender distinctions in the story are clearly sexist and set the stage for traditional gender hierarchy. But each one of us are BOTH Adam and Eve metaphorically (Eve is part of Adam’s flesh after all). At various times we all succumb to forbidden fruit, and other times we are blindly obedient. This is the real value of the story, it is the story of each individual. Otherwise, its just a strange myth that arbitrarily explains the mechanics of some kind of religious theology.
The gender issues in the story are insightful, but its dangerous to view them as excuses to entrench gender roles, when each of us are BOTH Adam and Eve.
ji nailed it in comment #1.
I’ve never liked the portrayal of our great Mother Eve as some gullible bimbo. Though she was still ‘innocent’ (trusting like a small child), she desired greater knowledge. Was she ‘played’ by the ‘Serpent’ (Lucifer), or was she trusting her instincts to think outside the box?
Besides, it’s obvious that it was part of the plan…e.g., Heavenly Father employed a little basic ‘reverse psychology’ by making the ‘forbidden’ fruit, knowing that sooner or later, one of them was going to bite. Yes, I know, “Gawd” isn’t the author of sin, both Adam and Eve freely chose to partake and bring themselves into mortality and out of the Garden, but it was the same that was done “on OTHER worlds”. That is, it’s a formula to kick off bringing to pass the immortality and eternal life of man (Moses 1:39).
My conclusion is that both Adam and Eve knew exactly what they were doing but didn’t realize right away the ramifications. Nevertheless, they knew they’d done what was best once they were evicted from the Garden.
I guess it depends on which film you see now…
My biggest issue with likening the Adam & Eve story to us is the second article of faith. Men are punished for their own sins, not for Adam’s transgression. I would assume same holds true for all of mankind, including women. But taking on the role of Adam & Eve contradicts this.
“But taking on the role of Adam & Eve contradicts this.”
Uh-oh, literalism…. 🙂
I was at the temple a few days ago and saw one of the new movies for the first time. And again, Adam is a thick necked, granite jawed, dim bulb, all-american ex jock, endomorph. Blah.
There’s a natural “us vs. them” mentality when we come to gender: “You look different, therefore you must be inferior (less often, superior).” Our church is no exception. Sometimes men are naturally more spiritual than women (prophet, heirarchy, natural leaders, etc.), and sometimes women are more spiritual than men (men need priesthood to learn what women innately already know, men are more carnal, etc.). The two different versions play into those views.
It’s hard for many people to think about traits not being gender-specific. When you’re dealing with a story that has one man and one woman, it’s even harder not to assign traits to each gender based on the actions of those archetypes. The two versions (each assigning one gender as less intelligent than the other) just reflect a natural thought process.
I think that the real way in which Eve was deceived was the idea that there was “no other way”. The other way and the right way may have been for Eve and Adam to counsel together and counsel with the Lord and them move forward in unity. Eve’s choice was wise but possibly not the best approach. Adam did lack insight and needed a new paradigm but he accepted it when Eve explained it to him. They both made courageous choices and we see that they were not perfect, with which I can relate.
I see them both as powerful and as human.
If Adam and Eve would have waited, The Father would have given them the fruit and they would have eaten with perfect obedience. That was the Father’s plan.
I agree with you, Rich. They took the fruit out of season.