I know. We aren’t Mormons now. But when we were, this is what the official manuals taught:
Why do you think things have changed?
Have things changed?
What the Mormons taught on taxes
I know. We aren’t Mormons now. But when we were, this is what the official manuals taught:
Why do you think things have changed?
Have things changed?
Wheat & Tares 
Political associations. Politics has a bigger impact on people’s morals than religion does. From there, politics influences religion instead of the other way around.
Ezra Taft Benson’s strong association with the John Birch society, and his bringing up conservative political ideas as being the only moral thing in general conference talks influenced the church greatly, even though McKay and other leaders tried to rein him in.
When I decided to change my voting my husband was convinced I would leave the church. For all the church’s claims of political neutrality, no one believes it because of the times the church has been involved in things like Prop 8
In those days, many church leaders were openly involved in politics — the president of the church at the time, Heber J. Grant, certainly shared his political opinions in church settings. The interesting thing is that there were church leaders supporting both parties!
From Wikipedia article on Grant:
“Despite being a Democrat, Grant was opposed to the election of U.S. President Franklin Roosevelt and wrote a front-page editorial for the Deseret News urging church members not to vote for him during the 1936 election. Grant shared the view of J. Reuben Clark and David O. McKay that the New Deal was socialism, which they all despised.”
Marion G. Romney of the Twelve supported Roosevelt. Maybe the lesson represents his views in opposition to Grant. Certainly today, there is no diversity displayed by church leaders.
I think the lesson still reflects modern sensibilities. There seem to be more wackos opposing progress in the name of opposing socialism, and they seem to be getting louder — but all the while, they certainly benefit from the nation’s efforts to use government spending to provide social services.
Still, I am surprised such text was included in a church lesson manual. Lesson manuals in those days were deep, so to speak, in comparison to the very shallow materials we have today.
It changed because the leadership of the church drifted to the right where what you posted was viewed as socialist/communistic and free enterprise/capitalism was extolled as virtuous. Of course many will point to Ezra Taft Benson but he was just one person, there were many others that followed and took up the same banner. At the same time in our society there was a strong move to the right started with the push back on FDR and his New Deal, through McCarthyism, The John Birch Society, and morphing into the Tea Party and MAGA Trumpers. Each movement taking it a bit farther and pushing it a bit more so that now many LDS view the government as an enemy and not as as the servant it could be.
The Constitution even put service into the document with the establishment of the Post Office that would serve all people. As our country has grown there’s always been this fight between what is appropriate for government and what’s appropriate for the private sector but there have also been times when the project was so big, the government helped stimulate it along the way. For example the transcontinental railroad or the Interstate System. But other big issues like health care, education, or providing for the elderly, service has been or is the process of being changed to make sure that someone gets profit, and a lot of it, from the system. That’s one of the reasons we have so many uninsured citizens having both the best and the worst health care systems in the world. Why does the USA pay in some cases double per person for health care than say Japan or Canada and get worse results? And then there’s the “Privatization of Education with charter schools and vouchers which has resulted in greater segregation than we’ve had when Brown Vs. BoE was ruled. Or there is the Privatization push for Social Security or Medicare.
Currently we have the largest income gap our nation has ever seen and productivity seems to happen at the top end but leaves the average worker behind and still struggling. So many on the right think they’ll get theirs sometime but in reality they system has been in place so long that the only place you can make your millions is in something that hasn’t even been thought up yet. Imagine trying to start a mom and pop hardware store today competing against Home Depot, Lowe’s, WalMart, Ace, Sears, etc. We hear how the economy is improving but look at our own bottom line and realize that it’s improving for those making a lot more than we are.
So while all of this has happened, the church has become more republican (it’s been even said you can’t be a democrat and be a good member of the church), the number one religion supporting Trump has been Mormons, and Mormon political representatives like Sen. Lee or Romney or the 10-12 others in Congress vote overwhelmingly to support tax cuts for the rich and more spending cuts for “social programs.” Of course there are the occasional statements by Romney against Trump excesses but there’s his voting record that supports Trump at an even higher level than Lee (both over 90% of the time). The Church meanwhile at Conference makes occasional statements that seem to correct the direction but which are. quickly co-oped by those on the right to put down “liberals” in the church because the church statements are so vague. Consequently, ON WE GO!! Many reject masks, vaccines, campaign against CRT, books, teachers and schools and question how the prophet can be so liberal.
There’s a new prophet, seer, and revelator in Mormon economics nowadays: Ayn Rand.
The US Government is the cause of the inflated prices people pay for education, housing and medical care. The reason is the US Government is in union with Corporations to control and take advantage of the citizenry. This is not opinion but fact demonstrated by the reality of price inflation seen in the products and services that government most heavily regulates.
https://www.aei.org/wp-content/uploads/2022/07/cpi2022junea-3.png?x91208
https://www.aei.org/carpe-diem/chart-of-the-day-or-century-8/
Back in the late 1800s, the Robber Barons made a fortune on the backs of the working who would literally work themselves to death at steel mills and on railroad construction. Markets went through boom and bust cycles experiencing periodic panics. Then Teddy Roosevelt, a Republican, came along and starting preaching progressivism. Wary of Roosevelt’s prowess and appeal, the Republican Party made him vice president to William McKinley. Then when anarchist Leon Czolgosz assassinated McKinley in 1901, Roosevelt became president to the chagrin of his party members. Roosevelt then took the bull by the horns and completely reshaped the trajectory of the nation and gave the US a progressive shot in the arm. Progressivism was popular among both Democrats and Republicans. Principles of it were espoused by Democrat Woodrow Wilson as well. Teddy’s fifth cousin Franklin Roosevelt would carry out Teddy’s vision in fuller force during the 1930s and 1940s. Church leaders during the early 1900s had already taken the plunge and decided to reject polygamy to integrate within the US system. They were troubled by the Robber Baron generation, and rightly so. They latched onto progressive ideals because they were moral, right, and carried out Jesus’s vision of providing for the poor. Jesus was a redistributionist and Joseph Smith’s early community was similarly redistributionist.
Then after WWII, new cultural trends set in that questioned many traditional religious teachings. This new culture begin applying the principles of progressivism in greater force to other areas such as women’s rights, minority rights, and LGBTQ rights. Among the targets were traditional religious organizations. This new strain of progressivism allied itself with economic progressivism and the heirs of the Robber Baron generation allied themselves with the white religious poor. It has been odd bedfellows ever since. Traditional religion squared very well with Rooseveltism in the past. But now the new Robber Barons have used the toxic ideologies of Ayn Rand to create an illusory notion of freedom, where the ultimate freedom is for the already rich to become even richer out of the hopes that maybe, just maybe their wealth will magically trickle down on the rest of us. The pill was swallowed by Ezra Taft Benson, and it has been downhill for Mormonism ever since. Reagan came to power in 1980 and enacted policies that have only widened the rich-poor gap and put the US on the path of boom-bust destabilization. Democrats of today, many partial to the neoliberal economic philosophies, haven’t been able to reverse this trend.
I look at the religious organizations on economics today, including the Mormon church, and I don’t see the philosophies of Jesus put into practice. I see Mammon.
@John W
Crony Capitalism is the official policy of both the Democratic and Republican parties. Recent case in point, the SVB bailout was entirely a bailout of progressive interests. Not a single Democrat is denouncing the bailout, and it is a bailout or otherwise another private bank would have bought SVB.
So why are you blaming Ayn Rand and Libertarianism for Crony Capitalism? True Libertarians denounce the corporate capture of government. The essence of Crony Capitalism is to privatize profits and socialize losses. As such, Crony Capitalism is just another form of Socialism, about which Ayn Rand wrote: “There is no difference between communism and socialism, except in the means of achieving the same ultimate end.”
Instereo: “the number one religion supporting Trump has been Mormons” That’s not accurate, although the amount of support in our congregations is appalling and alarming. Evangelicals are the highest supporters. 81% of Evangelicals supported Trump. 61% of Mormons did. (Study: https://www.voterstudygroup.org/blog/mormons-and-white-evangelicals-are-divided-over-trump) While these numbers are always moving, roughly a fourth of the US identifies as White Evangelical, whereas less than 2% of the population are Mormons.
Actually….I quite admire Ayn And…..Looking back on things, I think she’s been quite prescient…Anyone following the financial news this morning? Personally, I think we’re walking on a razor’s edge relative to the possibility of financial collapse; or at least another major recession.
The government didn’t bail out SVB nor will they. Same goes for Signature Bank. Depositors at the bank were always insured up to $250,000. FDIC, though, was another brilliant creation of Rooseveltian progressivism in 1933 and thanks to it, we can feel an extra layer of safety keeping our money in banks and not feeling the need to hide it under the mattress. Of course, we all know now that we must buy gold to keep our assets safe. Gold never drops in value does it?
Here is a strategy to always feel right. If any problem arises in society, anywhere, anytime, always blame the US government. The US government, after all, is gigantic and has a presence in many, many aspects of life. Therefore you can always draw a loose correlation between whatever problem has arisen and the US government, never minding stronger correlation and causation. Don’t let pesky nuance and factual details get in the way of your crusade to blame the US government. The US government has some involvement, remember, therefore it is to blame when things go wrong. Tuition prices increase? That’s because of the US government. Housing prices go up? That’s because of the US government. Racism? That’s because of the US government. Inflation? You see where I’m going. Always display only part of the story, part of the picture. Don’t get lost trying to analyze the whole picture. Only focus on the part of the picture where the US government is present, no matter how small a presence the US government has. Partisan dysfunction? US government is to blame. To add to this, always cite the Founding Fathers romantically and extol the year 1776. They founded this amazing system of freedom (remember use the word “freedom” vaguely and very, very enthusiastically, don’t let nuance and details about freedom bog you down) that statists and promoters of government have repeatedly weighed down. Always extol market forces. Pretend that the market is a magical system of freedom that can just exist in a vacuum without government presence and that whenever the government intervenes in the market, it will inevitably bring woe. If someone blames the Republicans, you get to say, “I’m not a Republican.” If someone blames the Democrats, you get to say, “I’m not a Democrat either, so neener, neener, you can never pin me down. Ha, ha, ha!” What are you then? “I’m a libertarian,” you say with your arms spread widely in a voice of a god who has come to save us all. No one can ever pin you down, because libertarian can mean all sorts of different things. There is a Libertarian Party, but you can say that they don’t represent the true libertarianism. True libertarianism, by the way, being an elusive concept that no one can ever nail down. If someone questions libertarianism, always claim that they don’t truly understand it. Always take potshots from the sidelines. Don’t ever enter the mainstream. If someone tries to invade the sidelines where you’re at, move to a different sidelines and keep playing the same game. Always believe that if we snapped our fingers and removed the government, that everything would just magically fall into place. Why? Because the free market is magic, just like Disneyland. After all, the classical liberal gods of the past said so. Lastly, if a conspiracy theory comes along, believe it. If there is some inconvenient truth that undermines magical belief in market forces, then invent a conspiracy theory to undermine that belief.
Just a note of moderation to the resident conspiracy theorists. Although the world economy may experience a relatively mild cyclical recession (think soft landing), the majority of US financial institutions are on sound footing . This applies especially to the large money center banks who actually have excess liquidity at the moment. Regional banks (e.g., Zions) are not as robust – although LD$ Inc. will surely inject any needed capital to the ZB balance sheet. The primary risk is that the pseudo-economists such as Fox News, Glenn Beck, et.al. will generate unsubstantiated panic amongst their financially illiterate base. Stranger things…
Mormonism’s well documented battle charge to right wing orthodoxy plays well to their key demographic (e.g., aging baby boomers with $ to donate); however, the future in terms of sustainability and growth is bleak. Generations following the boomers are better equipped to recognize truth. For example, anyone believing the recent SEC fiasco resulted from following KM’s legal advice is hopelessly naive. KM offered no such counsel and the subsequent rationalizations published in the DNews were just smokescreen. Problem is the Q15 strategy appears to have appeased the sheeple among the base. LD$ Inc. is now focused on shifting large investment $ to real estate holdings – which they conveniently are not required to disclose.
This was during the great depression which started in 1929 and went until WW2 . So inequality was more obvious. There were lots of people who lost everything and were walking from place to place searching for work. The wealthy lost some money but their lifestyle was minimally affected. The top tax rate for people was 79%, while the corporate tax rate was increased from 14% to 19% in 1938, and during WW2 to 40%, and it has been as high as 79%. Trump changed it back to 20%.
So 1938 was a time when it was obvious that inequality was a problem, and that wealth needed to be distributed more equitably. Now America has moved so far to the right that even people who would benefit from a more equitable taxation system (if they are republicans) believe all sorts of lies that benefit the rich.
After this came WW2 and the ETB, and the end of common sense.
X
John W.
“The government didn’t bail out SVB nor will they. Same goes for Signature Bank. Depositors at the bank were always insured up to $250,000”
From abc news on March 15 – “However, the Treasury Department, the Federal Reserve, and the FDIC announced they would make sure all depositors with accounts at SVB and Signature Bank would have access to their funds by the next day – beyond just the $250,000 guaranteed by the FDIC.”
A Disciple – as John W said, the government is not bailing out SVB. The Federal Deposit Insurance Corporation (FDIC) charges banks insurance premiums to insure the deposits. The funds to make SVB depositors whole come from those insurance premiums that were paid by the banks all over the nation.
On the topic of the post … clearly Christian churches have changed their tune and now believe that you have to work for everything, even if you can’t work. It’s painful and ironic that people who are too disabled to work cannot get good medical coverage. Medicaid has some really tricky requirements. Temporary disability can really ruin someone’s life because of the medical costs. I wish we had free healthcare for everyone. I’d be happy to pay more in taxes if I knew it was going to free healthcare. As it is, the threat of having no medical insurance is used to make sure people work, and sometimes the need for medical insurance is the main reason someone works – like my friend who wanted to be a stay-at-home mom to small children, and could afford to pay her bills from her husband’s self-employment, but she had to have the type of health insurance that only comes from working at a big company.
You would think that medical care for everyone would be a bipartisan goal. Certainly it should be a Christian goal. Medical problems contribute to poverty and despair. Republican economic policies don’t help poor and sick people. Tax cuts for the rich never trickle down to make life better for poor and sick people.
Ojisan – the move to make depositors whole over and above the $250,000 limit is a surprise to a lot of us. That’s not a common decision. Those funds will not come from taxpayers, however.
“Shareholders and certain unsecured debtholders will not be protected. Senior management has also been removed. Any losses to the Deposit Insurance Fund to support uninsured depositors will be recovered by a special assessment on banks, as required by law.” That’s a quote from the press release issued by the Federal Reserve, available here: https://www.federalreserve.gov/newsevents/pressreleases/monetary20230312b.htm
The Federal Reserve is taking action to stabilize other banks, in the form of offering loans to those other banks, if needed. You can read about that here: https://www.federalreserve.gov/newsevents/pressreleases/monetary20230312a.htm
Summary: This isn’t a bailout. The banks across the nation are pitching in to stabilize the banking system. The effort is mandated and monitored by the Federal Reserve.
The Dept of Justice was already investigating SVB criminally for possible cryptocurrency fraud and money laundering before the bank failed. Senior management is in serious trouble, though the news cycle will have moved on before the criminal charges are fully investigated.
Without government intervention non-insured depositors in SVB would risk losing a portion of their money. That is the law.and the law states deposits above $250k are not FDIC insured. The government intervened to bail out the millionaire SVB depositors.
To further illustrate the privileged nature of the bailout, Treasury Secretary Yellen explained to the Senate that she and President Biden will decide what bank depositors deserve to be protected, and which one deserve to lose. Let there be no confusion. Yellen is stating out loud that some Americans will be bailed out (protected) and others will lose.
“A bank only gets that treatment … If I, in consultation with the president, determine that the failure to protect uninsured depositors would create systemic risk and significant economic and financial consequences.” ~ Janet Yellon
https://www.reuters.com/business/finance/yellen-tells-senators-us-banking-system-remains-sound-2023-03-16/
Crony Capitalism is the prevailing politics of the USA and it is fascinating to see those most vocal against Capitalism most supportive of Cronyism.
SVB deposits over $250,000 will also be insured. Yes. Will taxpayer money be used to protect SVB deposits? No. The money will come from the bank-funded Deposit Insurance Fund. The US Treasury might backstop the FDIC fund and the Federal Reserve’s loan program funds. But this is unlikely. Are owners and shareholders of SVB getting compensated? No. The Federal Reserve is creating a separate lending facility to guard against ripple effects and runs on other banks. But ultimately SVB is in no way being propped up like several larger “too-big-to-fail” banks in the 2008 financial crisis (Bank of America, Wells Fargo, JP Morgan Chase, etc.). Now, the term “bailout” does not have a legal definition. In comparison with the government Troubled Asset Relief Program of 2008, this is not nearly at that level.
All this hand-wringing over the so-called “bailout” of SVB, mostly coming from the libertarians and right-wingers, raises two questions, however: 1) what should be done at this point? Not cover depositors? Wouldn’t this then lead to a spread of panic that could entail runs on more banks? 2) What should have been done to prevent this? Right-wingers seem to blame government for everything. The government caused the 2008 collapse in their minds. So wouldn’t it be right-wing logic that government somehow caused SVB’s collapse? So the government should have not regulated as much, enforced regulations so hard? That doesn’t make a bit of sense. The rollback of banking regulations under Trump appears to have led to this.
“Crony Capitalism is the prevailing politics of the USA and it is fascinating to see those most vocal against Capitalism most supportive of Cronyism.”
Libertarianism and Ayn Rand’s objectivism may not in their ideals favor cronyism. But when these ideals are put into practice, even just partially, they enable cronyism to flourish. For Ayn Rand’s philosophy worships the rich and reviles the poor. Someone makes a bunch of money from luck and hard work? Great. Someone makes a bunch of money through exploitative contracts, disregard for the environment and ethics, stepping on others’ backs, and a host of other skeevy practices? In a Randian world, there is no mechanism to prevent that or punish those who make money through unethical and illegal means. You simply have to bite your tongue, keep working your fingers to the bone, and hope and pray that maybe one day (no matter how slim the chances) you could be rich too. The rich get to complain about freeloaders and people hating them. The poor have no right to complain. If the rich screw us over through bad business dealings and risky bets, well then tough luck for us all, because how dare we create government structures that would keep and hold the rich accountable, enable middle-class growth, and prevent the rich from getting even richer, no matter how unethically and brutally. In the Randian world, slavery is perfectly justifiable, for if a person in a state of desperation signs a contract that would hold that person in slave-like conditions, then that person must subsist within the confines of that contract, for the contract is most sacred and holy and could never be deemed exploitative. Of course, paradoxically, the paranoia about government in the Randian world would render the government enforcement mechanisms of such contracts, as well as other even legitimate contracts, completely impotent. And therein lies the irony of her most ridiculous worldview. For with a virtually powerless government, who could enforce contracts? The only logical answer is that the rich would create quasi-governments in their own businesses in order to squeeze labor out the workers to near death and then get away with it, because hey, the real government won’t do anything about it. This all happened in the late 1800s. And then came the Roosevelts.
Endorsing Ayn Rand’s philosophy is essentially a disavowal of the teachings of The Book of Mormon. They simply cannot be squared with each other. Anyone who says otherwise is either stupid or a liar.