https://www.sltrib.com/religion/2020/04/23/many-latter-day-saints/
I’ve scrapped several posts on this topic as I’m trying to make sense of what is going on rather than be critical.
I invite our readership to comment, especially with better perspectives.
Thank you.
Wheat & Tares 
I’d love to, but the tribune is still not available over here. That we’ll be back soon message I get is getting kind of old by now. If you wouldn’t mind summarising…
Basically there was a conference talk supporting online connections and a church newsroom release supporting them.
All over the Church there are virtual classes, meetings, etc.—except in Utah where the Area Authority has interpreted the social distancing guidance as banning all meetings or anything like them including all virtual meetings.
It has caused some questions.
Here is a link to a discussion:
Thanks, Stephen. Seems kind of odd that they don’t permit any meetings. Just congregations or admin as well? Then again, I’ve seen members very literally over-interpret things in the past. And there’s a certain mindset, once convinced that a particular interpretation is the right one, requires someone in higher authority to release them from that interpretation, because they’re simply supporting what they’ve been told, and don’t feel they themselves have authority to deviate from that. As it were. Certainly, in my experience, that kind of the is more common in church leadership than the person taking delight in wielding authority and making things difficult for people, though they too exist.
In my own stake the things that are happening vary from congregation to congregation. Whilst sacrament meeting remains as home and family, online adult Sunday school classes are taking place in various wards via Zoom. My daughter has been connecting with the YSA class in her university ward that way, albeit she’s currently at home. Our ward will be starting a Sunday school class this coming Sunday, and my mother’s ward now have a combined RS/priesthood class as well. I don’t know whether this is all because a class is deemed a different category of thing to a meeting.
Ward and stake council meetings take place via Zoom.
I think they are really scared that people will get use to online church, and not go back after this is all over. Also, you have a Area Authority in Utah that is bucking for apostle-hood!
I don’t know if it’s because of Elder Christensen or what – but yes, we (in Utah) were told not to do any meetings. I’m in YW and our bishop told us not to have virtual activities, and there are no types of Sunday school discussions, mission homecomings, etc.. Nothing.
I can’t imagine this is an interpretation of social distancing since that makes no sense. I assumed it was that they don’t want us to get used to online / virtual activities and then decide IRL meeting isn’t necessary. (I’ll try not to comment on that but it seems very fear based – if you are afraid live meetings aren’t a good draw for people, maybe you need to make your live meetings better!). Don’t know, though.
I am far away from Utah, and we’re not doing any virtual meetings.
Perhaps the Utah Seventy gave his counsel because church meetings are suspended, and the church hasn’t called for on-line meetings. If so, it makes sense to me. But families, neighbors, and friends are free to do whatever they want without permission from the church and without calling it a church meeting.
Not just in Utah: Also in North American Southeast area for past 2 weeks, also per Area Authority (or so we have been told though no justification provided despite requests for clarification from rank-and-file).
Elisa: “I can’t imagine this is an interpretation of social distancing since that makes no sense.”
Some old guy heard that computers can get viruses and ran with it.
We live outside Utah and our Ward has a weekly “Prayer Meeting”. It lasts about 10 minutes. Bishop gives announcements (3 minutes), there is a 4-5 minute “message” and a prayer. That’s it. The person giving the “message” is told explicitly that this is not a talk. (I know because I have been invited to give the message this Sunday.)
Last Sunday I started listening to another church denomination online and was really impressed with how rich virtual church services can be. The pastor and his wife were engaging, meaningful scriptures were read, personal applications discussed, and the music was great! It was a 40 minute service – just the spiritual uplift that I needed on Sunday.
There is a real problem when loyal members of The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints need to go elsewhere for spiritual sustenance on Sunday!
We live outside Utah and our Ward has a weekly “Prayer Meeting”. It lasts about 10 minutes. Bishop gives announcements (3 minutes), there is a 4-5 minute “message” and a prayer. That’s it. The person giving the “message” is told explicitly that this is not a talk. (I know because I have been invited to give the message this Sunday.)
Last Sunday I started listening to another church denomination online and was really impressed with how rich virtual church services can be. The pastor and his wife were engaging meaningful scriptures were read, personal applications discussed, and the music was great! It was a 40 minute service – just the spiritual uplift that I needed on Sunday.
There is a real problem when loyal members of The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints need to go elsewhere for spiritual sustenance on Sunday!
In my stake we have no online meetings at all, not ward council or anything. Frankly, I love it. I’m so happy to not feel obligated to attend Zoom Relief Society.
I’m in a Bishopric in a Latin American country, and in our region an area authority seventy has apparently requested that wards re-create the Sunday meeting experience virtually. This is not an Area Presidency initiative, and is not being applied in many parts of the country. While we live in what would be considered a somewhat wealthier area in the local context, it really is not very well off. Internet availability is not a given for our members, nor is the availability of appropriate devices.
Frankly, we’ve struggled with this local instruction because if we were to implement it as given, some families are looking at approximately 3-4 hours of Zoom time on Sundays for all the different meetings. Due to bandwidth issues and device availability, we would have to stagger the start times for each of the classes. On Sundays where we would normally have Sunday School, we would be looking at an adult Sunday School class, two youth classes, Primary, and a YSA class, in addition to leadership meetings. On Relief Society/EQ Sunday, we’d have those two classes, plus Primary, two YW classes, and 3 separate YM quorum classes, also in addition to the normal leadership meetings. We’ve been holding virtual Primary for a couple of weeks, and have had virtual YW and Quorum classes (the YM quorums combined into one class, against the instruction we’ve received). We had a Bishopric Youth Council where the youth decided to forego the youth Sunday School classes, since they are already covering those lessons with their families during their Come, Follow Me studies. During the week, we’ve been holding short (30 min) virtual Mutuals where we each share something we’ve learned or accomplished during the week. We will decide what to do with the adult SS class and RS/EQ in the next Ward Council, but I am anticipating the council will likely decide to tailor the experience to the needs of the ward, perhaps by limiting the number of virtual classes to one or two on a given Sunday and spreading them out throughout the month.
A few takeaways from the experience so far:
1) I was extremely skeptical of the instruction we received from the Stake because it seemed too rigid and frankly overambitious for the context we’re operating in. I’ve softened a bit, at least when it comes to the youth lessons. We’ve had good experiences connecting with the youth, and the lessons have been short and to the point. The recent instruction from CHQ has emphasized that Bishoprics should focus on the youth, and I can see how these virtual meetings are in line with that instruction.
2) I can see why virtual meetings would be useful in theory to reach single or solitary members, however the problem in our area is that the older women and men who live alone almost uniformly do not have internet or the appropriate devices to connect to these meetings. These members will be left behind, and they’re the ones who really need the connection right now. Unfortunately, due to their age they are also unable to receive visitors. Members of the ward are ministering to them as much as possible via phone calls and texts and by purchasing groceries, etc., but as we’re seeing worldwide the pandemic has really limited the options for in-person ministering. Some members have expressed the desire to do in-person visits under the belief that God will protect them, and leaders have had to strongly discourage such thinking. The most at-risk youth are also the ones without internet connections at home, excluding them from these virtual gatherings. As has been pointed out in other posts and comments, this pandemic is really highlighting the inequities around us, especially economic disparities and in access to ordinances and representation at Church. I was disappointed that the most recent instruction from CHQ did not use more imagination to enable households without Priesthood holders to receive the Sacrament.
3) I am extremely proud of our young Bishop, who I believe has been inspired in his response to what I view as a meddlesome and overly rigid instruction from a local authority. The country where we live, like many (most?) Latin American countries is extremely hierarchical, and those tendencies are clearly exacerbated inside the Church with its emphasis on obedience and “sustaining your leaders.” We’re adapting the instruction to the needs and desires of the Ward, and involving the entire ward leadership (youth included) in the decision-making process, while at the same time attempting to fulfill the spirit of what we’ve been asked to do. The instruction we received was too prescriptive, but the instruction in the Utah Area seems too proscriptive. Let Wards decide what works best for them, while perhaps providing some guidance to not over-burden members on Sundays.
4) Our virtual leadership meetings have been more efficient. At this point, I don’t miss in-person leadership meetings, but I miss and appreciate our in-person worship opportunities now more than ever.
From what I’ve seen on Facebook, members whose wards held virtual SS classes, PH & RS, and youth classes were very enthusiastic about the experience. It seemed like it was a good thing. Maybe it was the tone of the meetings that bothers Elder Christensen – not solemn enough. I once sat next to a mission president in sacrament meeting. There was a musical number that was not in the hymnal. When it was over, the MP said, “I just don’t associate anything uplifting with that beat.”
Since we Mormons mistake sitting quietly for reverence, the virtual meetings, with more flexible boundaries and participation norms, were “just getting out of hand” and needed to be stopped lest we enjoy it too much.
Stephen,
My understanding, form relatives who live in Utah, is several families or several people would pile into a persons living room and take part in the lesson or service. Kind of defeats the idea of social distancing…
Yesterday, here in Oregon, was the second week our Young Women gathered online to talk. There were only two groups which had more than one person. One group were sisters and the other group was a mother and daughter. The rest were all siting by themselves in the virtual meeting.
Unfortunately, our culture of top-down correlation naturally stifles innovation. My own bishop is a good guy who means well, but he has the type of personality that won’t let him sneeze unless the stake president or SLC gives him permission. It’s not his fault–his generation of Church leaders that grew up with correlation had all its independent thinking beaten out of it.
Fortunately, we are far enough outside of Utah to have occasional Zoom meetings, but not very much. Last week we had our only Zoom Sunday School attempt thus far. It went quite well, but at the end the teacher earnestly asked the attending bishopric member if we could do it again in two weeks, and for how long. Meanwhile, I was thinking “you don’t need to ask permission! The Church doesn’t control Zoom! As consenting adults we can have whatever independent meetings we want, whenever we want!”
Perhaps Big Church is fearful of individual members rediscovering their ability to think and act for themselves.
I live in AZ and our local ward is doing zero. My wife and I have started having SS with a couple in Calif who we know well. It has been lots of fun and permits us to examine the B of M with greater attention to detail than normal. We have spent an hour on the first 8 verses of Enos. I highly recommend this approach.
Our Bishop—(not in Utah)—has held a short Zoom meeting the last 2 Sunday’s. They consisted of an opening prayer, followed by a recently returned missionary (sent home early post Covid19) talking about his mission experience which then was opened up to participants being able to ask the missionary questions. Following that meeting, our Sunday School teacher then teaches this week’s lesson.
The first week there were 40+ households connected, the 2nd week there were 60+
households listening.
I’ll be curious to see whether this continues or if this was just a vehicle to let the missionaries have closure(?)
I was really surprised and disappointed that there was no special mention of it being Easter on Easter, no music, nothing.
It seems like in our ward maybe they are trying to avoid the appearance of it resembling a Sacrament meeting.
Why would that be?
My TBM wife decided she disagrees with Elder CCC on this directive.