So many people think they know exactly who and what God is. Most of what they base their certainty on is a combination of logic and a small collection of sources. Very little of what I see is based on interviews with either God or a wide cross section of those who have had recent contact with God. I’ve already written about what metaphor fits the Church, now I’m going to write about God.
The first thing that surprises people is that there is a large body of medical literature that deals with the difference between spirituality and religious behavior. There is also a significant body of research about the impact of God.
I’m not talking about the silly stuff that is often in the news, but about day-to-day, cover it in nursing school, see it regularly in action sort of material. Most of it focuses on two groups in society that have a very wide cross section of members: grieving persons and persons in twelve step groups.
Those in significant grief, especially parents who have buried children, interact a fair amount with medical professionals. It is well known that prayer makes a significant difference in recovery and quality of recovery. In addition, it is routinely discussed and observed how while religious devotion is pretty much worthless in terms of surviving and recovering from grief, spirituality makes a significant contribution (noting that sometimes the two go hand-in-hand, sometimes they do not).
Believing, sincere prayer makes a difference. The observable data is that God pretty much hears the prayers of Jews, in case anyone was wondering. He also hears the prayers of Hindi, Mormon, Catholic, Orthodox, and others who pray.
One of the saddest things I remember about prayer was a researcher who was being interviewed after he had lost a child. He was lamenting the fact that he lacked belief enough to pray, because he knew it would help, yet that was out of reach for him.
From the study of hundreds of grieving parents the literature is clear that God is someone who hears, who hears and who kindly comforts, over time and without particular prickliness about how we envision or conceptualize God.
Twelve-step groups are even more interesting. A short summary of what they teach is as follows:
- admitting that one cannot control one’s life without help;
- recognizing a greater power that can give strength;
- examining and confessing past errors;
- making amends for these errors;
- learning to live an honest life;
- helping others.
(borrowed from several on-line sources such as the wiki and 12steporg.
One of the key elements to twelve step programs is that they teach people that they must pray to God for help — and these are generally people who have been praying to God for help (that they don’t think they have gotten) for years or who do not believe in God at all.
What many of them know about God reminds me of the sons of Mosiah and those they taught to pray to God who had only the vaguest idea of what God was — yet God answered.
I find twelve step groups fascinating given my history of multiple, repeating, miraculous personal disasters (the deaths of my three daughters over a five year period were negative miracles), because there is a substantial literature of people learning to pray to God in spite of the fact that they’ve been praying for help with their addictions for years and not getting the results they sought. The essence of a twelve step program is to come along and tells them, right up front, ok, you have to rely on God, including all of you who don’t believe in God at all. This time God will help you.
BTW, they don’t answer the question of evil, nor do they tell you what God is, other than the fact that God is the one who will answer your prayers, relieve you of bondage and guide you. The amazing thing is that twelve step programs work (for alcoholism, narcotics, sexual addictions, and a number of other problems. They are not successful in solving sexual identity issues, which I find interesting in its implications).
There is also a huge body of literature as to people who have relied on God to free them from bondage.
Those who have succeeded report that God loves them, and that as they were honest and willing to accept help he helped them, and that God wasn’t terribly prickly about how they identified him.
Sounds similar to the king who was willing to give away all his sins to know a God that he had the vaguest understandings of.
Do you and I really know that much more?
Of course that is merely what John said, who had been tutored by Christ for forty days after the resurrection, been one of the original Apostles and spoken with God. There are those who think that they really know more, yet they generally do not have much better credentials.
So, what is God?
God is our father. He is the Holy One. He exists. God, the Holy One, is real. He is powerful enough to help us. God loves us. He doesn’t require that much faith (at least to begin with) and is amazingly patient. And God is something we do not have a good metaphor to describe.
But if we give him space, he will love us and bring us safely home.
That is what God is, beyond words or metaphor.
The one who loves us and will bring us home.
We don’t really know as much as we think beyond that.
“The amazing thing is that twelve step programs work”
To be fair, a big part (in fact, based on studies of addiction, the central part) of those programs is the connection with others. I don’t mean to minimise the veracity of prayer (or derail your concept), but those groups are really more about fellowship and shared experiences of people. In fact, I have heard from others who dealt with some of those issues that they had been praying, going to church, etc etc for years without any success till they found a 12 step group. The fellowship they found there (sure, combined with prayer) was what helped them through it. I’d suggest that it’s not just prayer that fixes things (otherwise there’d be no real need for 11 of the 12 steps), but rather the concept behind prayer – that there’s someone who knows all the horrible things you’ve done and who still loves and accepts you, meaning that you can then learn to accept yourself. This is especially true since many programs are open to non-believers who still don’t believe even as they recover.
Yes. Fellowship is a core component. The Vietnam Vet and heroin problem/solution (with over 80% of the vets kicking heroin) is directly tied to fellowship.
That is an excellent point.
Fellowship is more important than doctrine for many people.
Stephen, It has never been clear to me what “spirituality” is, as opposed to “religious devotion.” Nor is it at all clear to me how it is helpful to get people to pray for help who have already been praying for years without recognizable response. (Note: I don’t think much of the LDS Primary/missionary version of how to pray and have explored some other traditional Christian prayer regimes.) Care to clarify? or refer me privately to some of the sources you’ve reviewed?
p.s. Some therapists are convinced that 12 step programs are an unnecessary, money-making crock for a lot of people. I suspect they may be right for those who don’t need the fellowship support in order to stay on track with their goals.
Twelve step programs generally collect a dollar a person a meeting. Not sure how anyone makes money from that.
There are a number of entities conducting 12 step programs that collect a great deal more than that.
It’s interesting that you mention “sexual identity issues.” Because it was praying for sexual orientation change, which I had been clearly taught by church leaders going all the way up to the top was possible, that I lost my faith in a higher power that performs miracles. Now the leaders don’t teach that anymore. Between that and the immensity of the problem of evil, I just can’t believe.
Is it consolation that God grants? Could this be just positive psychology?
I am completely in the camp that ascribes all of the comforting feelings, “spiritual” experiences, answers to prayer, etc. to just positive psychology. Sincerely praying to God that one has faith in can generate all the positives attributed to the actual existence of God. IMO
Perhaps fellowship is the doctrine.
When others hear the confession of past and goal of future it is mimicking God doing the same.
And God is within us all so it is symbolic and actual at the same time.
I am in a somewhat different position from most in connection with this issue. I have for the last 5 years spent hours each week teaching an addiction recovery program in the Arizona prison system . I work with approximately 20 inmates ,most of whom are serving sentences of 20 or more years for sexual offenses. Typically rape ,children molestation or possession of child ponograghy. The bulk of the inmates are LDS. although not all .You can say what you want about the nature of God including whether he exists and whether he will intervene in our lives under certain circumstances but I will tell you this group of men will tell you not only does he exist but if we call on him with a broken heart he will answer.. Many will tell you they were in the darkest abyss unable to escape the hell they had created until they cried out to God to help them and in almost to a man they were arrested the very next day. A strange way of answering prayers you say but each of them will tell you being arrested and being sent to prison was the best thing that could have happened to them. They will also tell you that they have not been able to deal with their addictive behavior until they were able to connect ,not with each other but with God.. We have seen several leave prison and the recovery rate has so far been 100%.Admittedly this group is only about 20% of the LDS inmates in my particular unit. ( statewide there are about 88 lds persons in prison ,another 80% are sexual offenders ) so the sample is small. But it is large enough to show God does respond to the fervent effectual prayer of the broken hearted and contrite.
Sorry 800 lds prisoners . 500 of whom are sexual offenders.
Bellamy, you make a good point about those who realize they have hit bottom.
The biggest problem with the commercial quasi twelve step groups is that they charge people money for services when those paying don’t believe they have hit bottom or that the first step applies to them.
As a result they don’t seem to be good for much except extraction of money from people going to diversion to avoid prosecution.
Ultimately I think God is whatever we need it to be.
The Church teaches us that God (our Father in Heaven) is a distinct personage / being, literally our Father and Creator, who loves us more than we can imagine and knows us better than we know ourselves.
But our history of recorded revelation and scripture he has said maybe 13 words or so … this is my beloved Son in who I am well pleased. Hear him. All the rest of divine revelation and communication is from Jesus/Jehovah, who is our brother. So while God our Father is spending the eternities doing who know what, we are being taken care of by an eternal babysitter, our older brother. And in our family/gender framwork we project onto deity, there is of course no specific role for, or even mention of, a Goddess, a Heavenly Mother.
And when I look at world and its history, or just my own life, it’s hard for me to locate the Church’s notion of God in it.
And I haven‘t found an alternative that works for me yet. Other than maybe – God is us.
But maybe someday if I really need God, I‘ll find it.
“So many people think they know exactly who and what God is. “
Those persons that an omnipotent God has chosen to know certain things will know those things.
“We don’t really know as much as we think beyond that.”
There is no WE. Notice the wide variety of comments just on this page from true believers to true disbelievers and scarcely a mere doubter to be found.
Michael 2 on the other thread: “It is possible that the Earth and everything on it was created yesterday and who can prove otherwise?”
Michael on 2 this thread and nearly every other one: “there is no WE.” and (paraphrased), “I know that God has chosen some people . . .”
His MO in a nutshell: ” I’m so smart that you can’t criticize my stances, and I know what God does. Also, no one can prove anything. Also, there is no WE! That pronoun should not exist!”
Thanks for your reply, Brian. You can see that I face a difficult choice when commenting. If I am brief, it allows for miscomprehension or misrepresentation (usually both). If I am thorough, it becomes TL;DR.
The topic question, Who or What is God, has been answered by a great many people over thousands of years and the answers tend to be diverse. It is possible that one or more of these descriptions is accurate. I can choose one (or more), none, or make a new one!
I believe it isn’t all that important simply because if it WAS important, an omnipotent God would make it very easy to know for sure and impossible to be wrong. Unless he is lying.
If I obey the ten commandments and there is no God, have I lost much or anything? If I obey the two great commandments, and there is no God, what have I suffered?