After a few pleasantries, including how busy my life is, here’s the gist of a conversation with a counselor in the bishopric.
Counselor: Brother, the reason why you are here is that we have prayed on our knees, and the bishop feels inspired to call you to be the building coordinator. Now you don’t have to clean the building yourself. You just need to set up a program so that the building gets cleaned every Saturday. What do you think?
Me: Honestly? I think this is a crap calling. I’ll do it, but I’m not excited one bit about it. I hate it when people assign me to do the cleaning without asking me if I’m available. I often work weekends, and my wife will help clean the buiding, because she has a supremely guilty conscience.
Counselor: Well, that schedule is just a suggestion. You can always ask to trade with someone else.
Me: It’s a bad system. I get it that you don’t want to have the same people doing it over and over, and that everyone should have the opportunity, but I hate being assigned.
Counselor: Do you have a better suggestion?
Me: Hire a janitor. The Church makes $50 billion/year. Hiring a janitor would be supremely easy and the Church can easily afford it.
Counselor: But the prophet has asked that members clean the building. Besides, we think this is a good way if you had people come from 2 different neighborhoods, they will get to know each other better.
Me: If you want a suggestion for members to get to know each other, I’ve already given a suggestion to the bishop to have group dinners or a progressive dinner. We’ve done that only once, maybe twice in 3 years. That’s a better option.
Counselor: Will you pray and see if God wants you to do this calling?
Me eyerolling: Look, you have a need. I get that. I’ll do it, but I’m not the least bit excited about this calling. But tell you what. Can I make a deal with you? How about I help start a family history class like we used to have. Men should be anxiously engaged in a good calling and shouldn’t be commanded in all things. I’d like to volunteer to get the family history class going again. Deal?
Counselor: We don’t have a room.
Me: I’ll meet in the hall on the couch. I don’t care.
Counselor: Well, I’ll put it front and center with the bishop. Will you pray about the calling?
Me: ok.
So, beloved brethren and sisters, what advice do you have for me to clean the building every Saturday, especially knowing that I often won’t be there? Apparently the last guy who lasted just about 2-3 months simply cleaned the building himself, because he hated asking for help. (That’s why he is being released.) Sign up sheets? Simply assign people in the ward program announcements (which is how it worked before)? I’m open to ideas. What is the most pleasant way to ask/assign ward members to clean the building?
Turn it down. It’s not a calling, it’s an assignment. Callings are things you feel called to do.
Phew, I feel your pain. In my current ward, we put the assignments for the next 4 weeks in the Sunday bulletin, and also include it in the weekly announcements email. We encourage people to trade assignments with others if they’re unavailable. In reality, people (including my own family) just don’t show up if they’re unavailable, and it’s a toss-up whether 1) whoever does show up feels guilty enough to try and do everything, or 2) those who show up only do what they were assigned, resulting in vacuumed floors but overflowing trash cans, or spotless windows but filthy restrooms.
Some wards simply put out a master calendar once a year that lists everyone’s assigned week. The assignments are done alphabetically. People trade. Do the assignments through an online calendar. Have the ward bulletin list the families each Sunday who are assigned for the next week.
Done.
People show up or they don’t. It is your job to make the assignments — not to police the members. If cleaning doesn’t get done, the entire ward has a copy of the cleaning assignment as well as the ward bulletin.
Gofund me for funding to hire the damn janitor. I’d contribute.
1. Say no (to the assignment).
2. If not 1, change the way the building is cleaned.
3. If inot 1 or 2, the best I’ve seen is to make assignments with total transparency: “.This is the program in gory detail. Nobody likes it. We’re going to do it.”
And then the one I thought worked the best was to intentionally and transparently double-book. “We’re assigning twice as many as are really needed. If you all show up it will go fast. If you don’t show up, your neighbor will carry on for you but still at a reasonable single-assignment level.” Lots of social dynamics made that the least bad of the alternatives I’ve seen.
Announce that whoever shows up gets gross blessings even if tithing on net.
Our ward does the same as Damascene’s ward. We have a master list which divides the members equally, including those we know will always show up, and we let them govern themselves. Our coordinator opens the building and closes the building. They even have pre-printed assignments that you take and turn in when done.
Also- I really doubt that the Lord gave much inspiration for this calling. The longer I have served in bishoprics, the more I have seen callings of convenience rule the day. Often the inspritation comes after the convenient choice turned down the calling or never showed up for the calling.
As a convert this kind of reaction to a calling upsets me.
I show up every Sunday and attend all of my meeting because I WANT TO. I also willingly serve in callings because I WANT TO. My children participate in the activities because they WANT TO.
Why would you accept a calling that you complain about or hate?
I seriously have no idea why members do this? You can say no!!!
My sympathies–you are a trooper! I just ran this scenario past my husband because he will not do janitorial work, and I have the excuse ready that I will be out of town that weekend–every time! I have done it countless time by myself and done a fine job in two hard hours! He said, have a YW or RS bake sale and raise money to pay some older gentlemen or couple and when the money runs out, have another fund raiser! Infinite posssibilities!
If you accept the calling (and I’m not sure you should if you’re always gone), I would send out sign-up sheets. That’s what we do in my ward. Mine is a good ward, and we don’t have problems getting people to volunteer. But regardless, I don’t see the object as getting the building clean. The object is to establish as sense of community, unity, and responsibility for community property, and building cleaning is simply a vehicle (and great for teaching kids, imo). Those who want none of it shouldn’t feel compelled or shamed (ie., assigned). Those who sign up to come work 1.5 hours max and go home. If the building doesn’t get completely cleaned, so be it. Those who come can be involved in the decision as to what is most important to clean, and the rest can be picked up next week. If people never come, then you meet in a dirty building until people decide to step up (or, the bishop decides you need a janitor). I think assignments are a bad way to do it. There’s just a different feeling when you’re there with other volunteers.
Jokingly announce that members can deduct the value of their time cleaning the building from their tithing. See how long they keep you after that.
My father was a professional custodian and custodial manager for 30+ years. He took pride in his work (he wouldn’t let anyone call him “janitor”) and is of the opinion that many commercial cleaning procedures are best left to trained, paid professionals. The idea of member custodial rotations for Church buildings is insulting to him, because he doesn’t consider it unskilled labor that just anyone can do, and he doesn’t like being asked to spend a Saturday morning doing his day job for free.
If it were me in Mormon Heretic’s shoes, I would go out and get a few competitive bids from janitorial services firms in the area–specifically those that hire people with disabilities, refugees, or other disadvantaged individuals for their crews. Then pitch it to the bishop as a form of community service. Better yet, pitch it directly to the ward members and ask for donations. You would be surprised at how many people would be willing to pay to get their Saturdays back AND have the job finally done right.
When I found myself assigned to the cleaning crew within two weeks of having major surgery (knee replacement), it made me feel like not one single person in the ward gave a rat’s behind about my family since the hubs has had back problems for years. Granted, my attitude might have been a combination of pain & meds, but I have not participated in cleaning the church since. For that reason, I would not suggest assignments. Let people sign up. When I was younger & could do, I did.
I can’t believe people would suggest coming up with the cash to hire someone! We all know the church has the money and refuses to use it for janitorial services. We also all know the members hate this system or they’d willingly be there to get the job done.
My feeling is that continuing to be browbeaten into being exploited just enables leaders — whose offices no one doubts are thoroughly professionally cleaned — to continue doing the exploitation.
Take the calling or don’t. Members will show up and clean or they won’t. But I’d take pictures every week of what the building looks like, send them to the COB and ask them if that’s what they want to welcome and encourage investigators.
I agree with someone above that if it is a “calling”, you already are expecting it and wonder only when it is coming. If it is an assignment, then it is not really a calling in my opinion. It is better to be unambiguous about it and not say “yes” to something you are not going to enthusiastically embrace.
Saturday morning chapel cleaning is an opportunity for me to go to the church and work with people anxiously engaged in a small but good cause. There’s a bit of “waters of Mormon” at these Saturday morning cleanings. Bearing one another’s burdens. Some of the men can barely lift a vacuum but they are there.
“The Church makes $50 billion/year. “
Glad to hear it. The church leaders make their decisions and you make yours and I make mine.
I agree on sign-ups. You could even do a big sign-up sheet at the beginning with families who are even willing to participate in building cleaning, and then come up with a tentative schedule after that to ensure one family isn’t doing it way more than others.
My husband has had this job. It bites.
I’m with Alice. The exploitation will continue until enough people refuse to do it. Just say no. However, if you must, then let the people who like doing it do it until they also tire of being exploited. And don’t give any more money to a church that has plenty—again, if you must, at least subtract a generous hourly rate from your tithing.
Ideas:
1) automate the whole thing. The sign up sheet could be a gotomeeting or doodle poll. Make assignments for 3 or so months in advance. Set email/text reminders with a template of instructions to auto-send on Thursday night. If someone signed up and can’t do it – it’s THEiR responsibility to find a sub. Their rsvp to the reminder could auto-ping the sub. If no one steps in, the Church doesn’t get cleaned. No one will die. A few clicks each quarter and you.are.done.
2) ask the bishop if there are persons receiving assistance that would like a Saturday job – cleaning the church.
3) I really like the go fund me idea. I would pay. (I might secretly deduct it from my tithing, but I would pay).
4) do a terrible job. Heck, even toilet paper the bathrooms or something. Celebrate your early release.
5) put the bishop and counselors on a very accelerated cycle for their rotation cleaning. Turn around is fair play.
6) have the missionaries do it.
“have the missionaries do it”
Yes! It’s far more productive than tracting, and builds character.
I would also suggest reading over the pulpit the names of the families who didn’t show up to clean the previous day. Public shaming is pretty effective too.
Or, Jack, you could read the names of the people whose children are grinding the round cereal bits into the carpet over the pulpit. That would probably bring about as much love as shaming. The cleaning needs done. No one argues that, but asking for volunteers generally works better than trying to force people.
When this first came out, I sent a letter to the stake essentially asking the following questions :
1. What raining would I be given in cleaning a commercial building
2. What training would I be given in the age use of commercial cleaning chemicals
3. What workplace health and safety arrangements would apply
4. What if I injured myself and could not work – temporarily or permanently
The reply was dismissive, rude and basically said that if I slipped and broke my leg that I would have to sue the church personally.
I decided that retaining my ability to provide for my family was more important than cleaning the church. If I wanted to get snarky, I may have drafters up a legal contract and asked them to sign it before I did anything.
Both options, I’m sure, would have resulted in the same outcome. And as it turned out, I refused to clean the chapel.
To answer Blended Hopes question, as to why anyone would accept a calling that you complain about or hate… I have been taught my whole adult life in the church that you never turn down a calling, because the calling is from God through the bishop. To turn down a calling would be to turn down God. We were also taught in my stake growing up to never question church leaders. Those who questioned had weak testimonies and lack of faith. For decades, I believed that turning down a calling would be both questioning a leader and turning down God. When I was in my 30’s, I turned down a calling, and I felt extreme guilt for doing so. I had five elementary-age children, a difficult marriage, two callings that I was faithfully doing already (plus visiting teaching) when this third calling was extended to me. I remember saying yes, and then bursting into tears the moment I shut the front door. (the person came to my house to extend the call) I telephoned the man, explaining that I really didn’t want to take on one more thing. He was disappointed, and gave me some push back, but I stood my ground. I had to for my sanity. For the next 20 years I continued to accept callings even when I didn’t want to. These past few years I’ve asked to be released from callings that were causing so much anxiety as to affect my family as well as myself, and even in that circumstance I felt tremendous guilt for not enduring to the end. I very much wish that I could have the happy attitude towards church that you have, Blended Hope. It would be wonderful to participate in the things that you want to, and feel free to say no to the things that you don’t, without feeling unworthy for doing so.
As for cleaning the church, I also wish that they would go back to hiring professionals to clean. Our family has always cleaned when it’s been our turn, but I can’t say that it’s made us feel closer to those we cleaned with. Mostly, it’s a task to finish up, so that we can get to the things we want to do on our one free family day of the week. Mormon Heretic, I hope that you’re able to find a solution that works well for both you and your ward.
I didn’t mean to give my post a thumbs up. Is there a way to erase my vote?
There are no rules that say you can’t vote your own comment. No problem there.
I’m enjoying the comments. I just had another question. Is this a man, errrr, priesthood calling? Every building coordinator I’ve known has been a man. Are there any women that hold this calling that anyone is aware of? Is this a safety issue about a woman’s safety, so she can’t hold the calling?
I agree with your decision to accept this calling even though you are not at all looking forward to it. It takes a lot of work to run a ward and I feel that we all should be willing to accept callings. I would guess that no one wants this particular calling, but someone has to do it, and why shouldn’t it be you? When I’ve been asked to do callings I did not want, that is my thought process, that someone has to do it, and why not me? That doesn’t mean I would never decline a calling for any reason, just that I don’t think not enjoying a calling is generally a good enough reason. And to me, trying to figure out whether the calling originated in the Bishop’s mind or from the Spirit really doesn’t matter. Seriously, who cares? Someone needs to do it. If the Spirit really wants it to be someone specific I’m sure he can swing that, but most of the time, I doubt it matters.
Hire the janitor yourself. Take their pay out of your tithing. You could even hire yourself and pay yourself out of your tithing.
If, for example, it takes 20% of your income and you serve for 5 years- take it out of 12 years of tithing (20% loan ).
One of the paradoxes in our thinking is how we let the big dogs at North temple beggar our local budgets while a typical ward sends them $ 1-2 million every year. If they obviously mismanage our donations, we have no reason not to rectify the problem to the extent that we can.
You can still say yes to the temple question with a clear conscious.. At least you are paying something. Many don’t pay a dime and have a TR.
Mike, I want to be your friend. That is brilliant.
MH, there are is least one woman serving as building coordinator in my stake. Maybe two. I have never seen a woman hold the position anywhere else.
MH I just realized you asked if there was a safety issue for women… The woman who has the calling that I know about is unable to physically participate in the cleaning; she just arranges and reminds people. So I guess the safety issue, if there were one, wouldn’t apply to her.
I agree it’s a horrible system and I refuse to participate in it. Even when people do show up and clean, most do it poorly and it shows. My friend knows someone who hires the job out when her assignment comes up and I love that idea.
There’s probably some legality issues but I think it would be great if the church hired ward members who need the money to clean the buildings and pay them from ward funds. Those people could be trained properly and commit to a schdule and the coordinator could simply oversee them.
Helpful when I’ve needed to make this happen:
1. In addition to other ways to organize, give it to the YM and separately to the YW to do it on particular weeks. These folks need to see this side of Church service. Got to get the bishopric/adult leader support on this of course for it to work.
2. Have two 60-minute shifts: like a Friday 6pm shift and a Saturday 8 am shift. More people can make it that way.
3. Have a master task list that people can cross off and they can come and do like two tasks and take off.
And regarding the bishopric counselor’s request, what would you think should be prayed about regarding the calling?
Signupgenius. Make it electronic with the ability to see at any time online who you might trade with if needed, automatic reminders etc. No one likes signing up at church for anything. Good luck and bless you for trying!
There are no legal issues. I remember when the church paid custodians. It wasn’t that long ago.
It is simply a way to save money.
When my kids were in the youth program they used to do it on assignment every quarter I think, for the YM/YW activity.
Our current building rep is very health and safety conscious, and seems to be well versed in that area, so assignments are simply vacuuming and emptying bins. I believe he and his wife must be doing the rest. And neither of them are in the best of health. Though now that I think about it, more building reps have been called to assist, so they are a team of 4 rather than 2. (You could make your acceptance conditional on having assistants called..)
I still managed to injure my elbow requiring it to be strapped up for weeks however. Used to be we could move the pews in the chapel so as to properly get between them for vacuuming. Recently however, we’ve had a pew upgrade, and it seems that throughout the stake the pews are now screwed to the floor. This is a huge nuisance when it comes to trying to vacuum both the floor under and around the pews, on account of so little space to manoeuvre, and also the pew upholstery (to remove crushed snacks and glitter…, whence the glitter?), and it feels like a slap in the face (yes we expect you to clean the building, because it’s your building, but we’re going to make it harder for you to do it, whilst also restricting any control you might have had previously over chapel layout – no more removing the front pew, or turning it round for the primary presentation for example). In consequence of which I will no longer vacuum the chapel.
I think assignments are made and information distributed well in advance, and we seem to be down about twice a year. I don’t know how many people actually show up for their assignments.
MH,
I have no advice for you, but best wishes. I like some of the comments, especially those that shared that the assignment is to make assignments, not to clean the building. Since bishops, their counselors, stake presidency members, and high councilors have been excused from ministering assignments, it will be important for you to include them in your assignments.
Our ward’s cleaning coordinator is a semi-active woman. Her sole job is to make a schedule and turn it over to the bulletin coordinator so that it is published in the ward bulletin weekly. No one is asked personally and there are no instructions, keys, etc. Part of the assignment is hunting down someone to loan you a key. But… A big chunk of the building is cleaned by members receive financial assistance and the ward members only clean the chapel. Both groups do a crappy job and I find myself picking up trash and taking out trash bins almost every Sunday. Our chapel is dirty too.
Mormon Heretic,
You and I have been intersecting on the bloggernacle for many years now and I have enjoyed seeing your posts and yes- heretical or out-of-the box comments.Props to you for your engaged scholarly, philosophical, and historical contributions.
Now I’m just going to put something out there—
There is a virtue in being able to do things that are “beneath” us. If I were you, I’d feel like this were a gut punch. At the same time, I have to say that if a super-smart-brainiac like you can do regular things, perhaps there is hope for egalitarianism in our church after all. Perhaps when a stupid ordinary person without super-powers like me struggles my entire life doing non-leadership things for the church- I can feel less alone down at the bottom- like perhaps- we take turns doing the hard things. Perhaps when a person as intelligent and talented as you cleans the church, you can send a message that big people do humble things. I’ve long said that I think that the Q12 and Q15 should take turns cleaning the church too. I think they should minister to people with a lot of needs and lift pianos, mow lawns and be ordinary- not cloistered people. Why? Because a leader shouldn’t ask people to do things they themselves aren’t willing to do and, frankly- I cheer for leaders like Corey Booker who got out and helped his city-wide emergency by shoveling snow during Snowpocolypse and then re-tweeted to someone who complained about the city wasn’t digging out quickly enough . . . something like “I’m in front of your house shoveling now . . . where are you?”
If you decide to take on the calling, I hope you make it less about cleaning and more about breaking stereotypes. Please create a legacy in your ward that challenges the big fish to take their turn doing the dirty work.
Second heretical suggestion: promise–and I mean PROMISE–ward members that anyone who cleans the building is automatically forgiven of their sins up to that point for doing so. It doesn’t have to be doctrinally sound. But you’ll get anyone with a guilty conscience to show up. Let the adulterers clean toilets as an easy route to forgiveness!
I’m surprised no one has mentioned robot vacuums yet. They are widely available and reasonably priced. They can do a much better job of getting under the pews than any human-operated vacuum can. They can run autonomously at night when no one is there. It only takes a small amount of effort to make sure they are regularly emptied and returned to their charging dock.
Or we can just be typical Mormons and make a simple task needlessly complicated for the sake of “blessings”.
In the vein of hopeless suggestions, consider assigning President Nelson to do the cleaning. After all, he’s the only member of the Corporation of the President of the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-Day Saints, a Utah corporation sole, which owns the building (at least in the US). Since the Presiding Bishop has accepted responsibility for temporal affairs including buildings, you could send the assignment notice to him for action. Don’t forget to point out that your bishop was inspired to call you to make the assignments, and that it has been impressed on your mind that this would be the most appropriate assignment to make. You could also suggest hiring qualified custodians to assist in completion of the assignment.
For what its worth (FWIW) it was my tax accountant bishop that was cleaning the toilets while I vacuumed.
I don’t like Corey Booker. He does some things but it is not clear whether he is really humble (not likely) or is simply collecting followers by hoisting virtue signals.
The thing about Q12 cleaning toilets, which maybe they do at home, is that it isn’t the best use of their time. It wasn’t the best use of Corey Booker’s time to be shoveling snow, although doing it symbolically once in a while is smart strategy; he’s willing to do it and that’s worth something.
Each person has total freedom of choice to serve, or not; to pay tithing, or not. I see a lot of conscience wrestling and is the entire reason for this page. Just kick it out the door, send it packing (your conscience, that is) and all these problems go away. Guilt and shame begone! I decide for me what I am going to do and there’s nobody watching for my virtue signals anyway. I cleaned stuff for 20 years in the Navy and when I clean the chapel my part of it is clean.
For all the reason listed in this thread as to why any member should sally forth and clean the church, why isn’t cleaning toilets at the church on a Saturday morning the best use of time for a Q12 member?
Of course the church can afford to hire a janitor but some great things happen when members take care of the building themselves. For me personally, I don’t have an issue being assigned. We’re assigned for that week so as long as we’ve done our part before the Sabbath it’s all good. Being assigned makes it orderly and creates a fair rotation. I bring my kids with me and we split up the assignments and go for it. They enjoy working together as a family. We go hard for an hour and we’re done. It teaches them to respect the building and take care of it whenever they’re using the building. It’s a service opportunity and a sacred one given it’s taking care of a building used for worshipping the Lord. I think it comes down to our attitude. Perhaps the challenge of a calling like this is not just organising a roster, but helping fellow members understand the blessings of devoting a small portion of their time to serve the Lord and their fellow ward members and how pleased the Lord would be with their humble efforts to serve. If they understood this then it wouldn’t be such a ‘hard sell’ to get people to come and clean.
Dot:
We are friends.
Facebook? What is that?
Wise adult children have advised me not to make a facebook page. I think I know why but the moderators of this crew don’t see it and have not kicked me off yet.
Mike:
Try no to take this wrong but your advice to deduct from a person’s tithing for clean the church, does that carry over to all church service? So a bishop would be tithing free in your stake for probably 20 years and a stake president would tithing free for 40 year. That is an interesting doctrinal statement. If I mow two widows lawns as service for a summer, can I deduct that or is it just cleaning church that I get the tithing break?
I’ve refused to clean a church own building – for the past five (5) years. While the first time I said No was difficult: each successive time has come easier. Now – I’m pretty much left alone re: this calling. I’ve explained to leaders why I’ve made this decision and have asked that my family’s name be removed from the list.
I think there is a “tipping point” where enough people will simply refuse to do this and “The Church” will be forced to hire cleaning services.
I (in no way) believe that providing cleaning services for free is “service” …..it is servitude. And, it’s long over due that it come to and end.
Hawk, love your suggestions, deduct tithing and absolution of sin. I’ll be out of this calling in no time! But I may have to worry about getting disfellowshiped… 😀
I have no opinion whether one decides to clean the church or not. People have good reasons for either. I don’t like to see pressure/shaming though. If that means a church doesn’t get as clean as some think it should, I’m sure they can get their money back.
What bothers me is the waste of time and resources by the church in some of their other service activities. I live in the region near the Kaysville grainary. Periodically we get assignments to clean it. The last time I filled an assignment I went with our ward’s quota of about 8 individuals. We got there along with what seemed a hundred others from the region, also responding to the ‘urgent’ request to meet their quotas. We had so many people, the service missionaries didn’t have much for us to do when my group arrived. One told me it didn’t matter, they got to count the hour each of us were there to pad the service hours to off-set the paid labor. I’m not sure what accounting was going down, but I told my group leader I wasn’t going to be part of that again.
Scott J;
Good question. Easy peasy answer.
When you are working for God by truly feeding his sheep in any one of a million ways, then you can be expected to be paid with blessings eventually..
When you are working for a cooperation then you expect some monetary payment or you’re stupid.
When you feed the sheep thistles in the name of clover, or do it in such an obnoxious and ineffective way that the devil laughs, then you will receive your wages from him.
Scott, you can have a tithing break any time you want. You don’t even need a reason! Now if you are trying to find a way to obtain the social and religious blessings of tithing without paying tithing, I doubt such a thing is possible, for every blessing is predicated on obedience to the law upon which that blessing is predicated.
Allison, if I had a list of all the things the apostles do on Saturday mornings that would be my answer. I don’t have time to research it but it would include things like visiting the saints in Guam (and doubtless some other places), dedicating temples… Anyway, I have no information whether apostles do, or do not, clean toilets on Saturday’s but it seems like not the best use of their time. Your mileage obviously varies.
If a man compels you to go a mile, then go two.
Try doing it each week yourself as an act of devotion and piety. Look earnestly for the blessings that follow and then talk openly about them. Tell people to contact you if they want to do it. (No sign up sheet). They won’t .
After you have done it yourself for a couple of months, they’ll release you, but then keep doing it after they release you. Do it for 30 years. Then one day when you are cleaning alone at the church Jesus might show up. Because if he were anywhere he’d be with the cleaning guy, that’s the way he was.
Mike:
So when you as, stake president are working, on budgets for each ward under you or the ward financial clerk in each ward can deduct that time from tithing because the money all goes to the “corporation”. And if the money from tithing not spent on janitors or cleaning staff enables the building of ten extra chapels in say Africa. Is that not helping those people? I guess not, down with the “corporation”, down with the church because they are asking me to do something menial work. “That is beneath me”, “don’t you know I am a highly paid (fill in the blank)” “I pay people to do that for me”.
I guess I am just stupid, I just didn’t understand the whole tithing deduction principle, maybe it is in handbook 1?
Michael:
I understand that I can stop paying tithing any time I like, I can stop keeping my marriage vows any time I want, I can start stealing from me work (I have not had a raise for a couple of years, they owe it to me). I can do anything I want, any time I want. I don’t do want I do for any “blessing”. I do it because I promised to help Him, feed his sheep. At times I suck at it but I try.
I was extended this calling 2 weeks ago by a member of the bishopric. Our ward is responsible for building cleaning the entire month, once per quarter. Each Saturday during the month the ward is divided alphabetically, so each family gets to clean once per month.
I sent the following text message to the bishopric member after our meeting:
Building cleaning coordinator: Cleaning the Building and Building Community
*Vision: building cleaning opportunities cannot ONLY be about cleaning; those Saturday mornings have to be about building community with each other and helping people feel the love of Christ.
-organized (alphabetical): people know their assignment ahead of time.
-Alma 37:6-7 ~ by small and simple means (come for 15 mins…or an hour…do what you can, and leave. Judgment free.)
-fun, upbeat music piped thru entire church (get music suggestions for a playlist, ie. EFY, Christian pop, Nashville Tribute, Lower Lights)
-request budget for light refreshments (muffins, donuts, fruit, juice): $100/mo; if not, give me a slip for bishop’s storehouse.
-Open mic in cultural hall (stage) for music, singing, dance, etc. Invite neighbors or friends of other faiths who are in to music to perform (worship ministry).
-Movie for kids in chapel on projector or on TV’s in primary room.
-3-point shooting contest
-Gospel study group
-invite missionaries to come clean, bring investigators for a tour of the building.
I really appreciate the comments above which recognize that it’s not your job to clean the building, or even make sure it’s clean. It’s your assignment to *coordinate* the cleaning. However you think is the most effective way to do that is your call.
I love the alphabetical assignment approach because of simplicity and consistency. I see the actual cleaning of the building as less important than the building of community in the ward through the vehicle of service. I love not having a Sunday calling.
For the record, I am not above any calling. Somebody has to do it, and why not me? On the other hand, there are callings I don’t like. This is one. Scouts is another. Ward mission leader is another. EQ presidency is another. I have done them all, although I cringe when asked and try to make my feelings known to the bishop.
Callings I love include family history, gospel doctrine, eq teacher, ward membership clerk.
Ben W. I can’t work out how your list isn’t going to finish with the building requiring more cleaning that it would have done at the start. Perhaps that was your intention…
Hedgehog, you made me smile. My intent has less to do with building cleaning than building community. I don’t see the calling as a janitorial calling, even if that’s the intent of the calling. If they want to fire me, I’m ok with that. I see the calling as a way to build unity and friendship amongst the ward members. If the building never gets cleaned but the ward is strengthened, camaraderie flourishes, and people feel included, feel a sense of purpose, and in some way feel the love of Christ, I’ll feel like my objective was achieved.
I wonder how much of our dissatisfaction with callings happens because we feel like we have to fit our calling in some prefabricated box that someone else envisioned, instead of making the calling our own. Ownership of even this most menial calling can, dare I say it, be fun. What do you think?
like the vision and the idea Ben W.
Scott J:
The problem with you is that you actually believe that this every-member-a-janitor program is inspired of God.
The problem with me is that I don’t.
Agreed?
Guess what. Most of the people in my ward say they believe but then their actions indicate that they really don’t. Hence the problem.If those who believed did it and those who don’t believe were more honest, then we would see this problem more clearly.
As for the stake president and all those other jobs, I am out of my depth. People like me are seldom given those jobs. I wonder if they are feeding the sheep or not. If they are feeding the sheep clover, loco weed or thistles. As one sheep, I can tell you what they are feeding me and I’m tired of it. I could wonder the same thing about all the jobs in the Vatican- while reading Elder McKonkie’s talks about them being the beast and whore of all the earth and so forth. But I’m too lazy.
When the Stake President called me to be the EQP I told him to go back and pray some more. He convinced me to give it a try. He wanted me to be someone I am not and to do things in which I do not believe. Conflict was inevitable. I tried and did my best. Some innovative ideas worked and were squashed. Some didn’t. I made mistakes. I had good counselors with differing opinions and we found ways to compromise. But it was impossible to find compromise with most leaders further up the chain. Many of the traditional duties gave me an anti-testimony, that I knew they were rubbish.( I came to know that Home Teaching needed to be moved in the direction it has gone recently about 30 years ago. Others the same thing 60 years ago). We were both glad when I was released. The church is too narrow in its vision and expectations and I am not referring to “standards.”
Phil:
So what do I do if after 30 years, Jesus shows up and lovingly says in effect how could you be so damned stupid? You might have spent that time doing something else to which I beckoned you to do. Like the non-LDS scout troop I have been with for about 15 years. Or more of the Habitat-for-Humanity projects I have done, only a couple of times in the last 20 years of good intentions. Or been more bold and concise on the bloggernacle? Opportunities to do good are enormous, life is short. Why waste it on things that seem to obviously be not very useful?
That is what it looks like from my perch.
Mike:
Well I feel a little sheepish. Appeantly there are two “Mike” on this blog. One is you and the other claimed to be a Stake President (see How to Pick a Stake President) . And I thought I was talking to that one and not you. I am sorry then. As a regular member, like myself, I am ok with you following your own personal decisions and ideas. It is just that having a Stake President tell me that it is stupid no to deduct by cleaning time from my tithing, raised my eyebrows. I just had to poke at it. Sorry that I confused you.
As for cleaning being a revelation, I think it was someone high up who came up with an idea that tries to deal with a couple problems, one some areas of the world have problems abusing builds and not taking care of them, I have see it first hand, with the idea if they help clean the church they are more likely to treat the building better. Second the money saved could be used to further the work, by spending money in places that help people. And I hope that is the end of this conversation.
I was asked to be “on the committee.” I have 2 bad knees. 2 bad shoulders. And a bad lower back. I DON’T do manual labor.
Obviously not inspired.
I said no.
Mike,
Did Jesus have something more important to do than to wash the feet of the disciples? In cleaning up after the least of these, you are cleaning up after Jesus. The other things you mention are important too. What matters most is what is in our hearts.
Phil:
I am not against cleaning the church. I want it clean. That is why I want to have people doing it who are professionals. I don’t want a bunch of nitwits who can’t keep their own house clean over there doing it. Which judging from the fruits in my ward that is just about exactly what we’ve gotten.
I don’t want to sit through 10 or 15 minutes of begging and guilting every few Priesthood meetings with leaders trying to get people to clean the church who really really don’t want to do it. If you want to do it every week, great..Just do it. If there was a set of members who found this rewarding and were capable, I would say go for it, leave me out of it. Not just me, either.
But at my ward it is not like that. Not at all. Nobody wants to clean the church. The level of weaseling and begging and whining is unrelenting and intolerable. It is clearly indicative of dysfunctional leadership. The church facilities are a mess, bordering on filthy. Roaches and rats filthy. Sometimes it smells especially the bathrooms. Not like a truck stop… yet. All of the high-mindednesss and excuse making needs to stop. It doesn’t work.
I volunteer for a scout troop. I like to camp. I don’t mind being a little cold and lost and tired and hungry. I get a kick out of all the little shenanigans that teenage boys do while camping. Last month we had no less than 7 black bears, (2 mama bears and 5 cubs) pretty much spend most of the night sniffing around our camp, Some of the boys claim they were awakened by a bear sniffing their face. Perhaps you dislike the idea of bear snot on your nose, that is perfectly understandable. My wife will not sleep on the ground or be away from running water. She hates to camp. Many of the men and all of the women currently in this troop dislike camping. We are all happy that I and a few others like me go and they don’t. There are plenty of other roles for them to play. We don’t guilt each other into doing it. If or when no adults want to go camping we cancel the trip and make a better plan. Such a stark contrast to the Mormon church cleaning program.
For you to compare one of the most sacred experiences recorded in the scriptures, the washing of the disciples feet by Jesus to the cleaning-of-the -church program as it is currently constituted is so twisted and really blasphemous to me that I want to barf. It would be like comparing being licked by a garbage-eating bear while asleep in the woods as a boy scout with the first time I kissed the girl who would become my wife.
When it comes to this church cleaning program, you can have the bears. I’ll keep my wife.
Ben W: joking aside, the couple of times I’ve gone to do my cleaning shift at the ward building, I was the only person there. Since I’m a big burly guy that’s ok, but sometimes the shifts are assigned to single sisters–if I were one of them, I sure as heck wouldn’t want to show up to a deserted, dark building. If we at least knew other people were showing up at the same time, it might be less grim.
Ok, I spent Sunday School setting up Signup Genius. Are there any free themes? Everyone I clicked on was a paid theme, so I signed up for the free 2 week trial just to get the stupid thing done for the rest of the year. The “help” sucks, and setting up the signup was ridiculously hard. Not sure if this is worth it.
By the way, I was working. Nobody showed up except the guy I replaced. He cleaned the building by himself yesterday.