A few weeks ago, Rock Waterman announced that he was pleased to be included in a list of top ten LDS Dissidents and Troublemakers. I read through the list of the top ten, wondering why John Dehlin was merely an honorable mention. I also wondered who Adrian Larsen was. I had never heard of him. The list that I saw appeared without any explanation. I noted that it includes some people of the past and present. I didn’t give it much thought until a blogging friend pointed out that *I* was also on the list as an honorable mention. Should I be proud or ashamed to be on this list?
I’d like to examine this list in more detail in order to answer the preceding question. It starts out at 10, sort of David Letterman style. You can read the list yourself, but I’d like to give you my opinions on some of the people listed.
10. Helmuth Hubener – Mormon youth executed by Nazis for creating anti-Nazi propaganda in Germany. Troublemaker? absolutely. Good guy? absolutely. Top 10? Perhaps, but not particularly influential, even in Nazi Germany. I probably wouldn’t put him here, although I admire him greatly.
9. Natasha Parker – She used to blog with us at Mormon Matters, and bills herself as The Mormon Therapist (she also is a sex therapist). She’s been pretty vocal about masturbation as being not a big deal, as well as advocating for gay/lesbians. Troublemaker? ok. Top 10? Absolutely not.
8. Orson Pratt – apostle, but hard to call a Dissident. He famously argued with Brigham Young over theology like the Adam-God doctrine and blood atonement. He was against the Black priesthood/temple ban and supported black voting in 1851! Well the church has basically adopted all of his positions, while jettisoning Brigham Young’s. Troublemaker? I suppose, but that’s a weird thing to call an apostle. Top 10? Perhaps, but I’m pretty sure I can think of others more noteworthy. If I left him on the list, it would stay toward the bottom.
7. Michael Quinn – One of the September Six. Excommunicated for publishing LDS history, despite his very fervent belief in the restoration. He is now a folk hero among the LDS historical community. I’m sure he is still hated by the Brethren. Dissident? yes. Top 10? yes, but I’d put him higher on the list.
6. Juanita Brooks – she is also somewhat of a folk hero now, and was really controversial for correcting the historical accounts of the Mountain Meadows Massacre. Her history of the event has been the standard for some fifty years. Church leaders weren’t happy with her and some apostles wanted her exed because of the accurate portrayal of events. David O. McKay told them to leave her alone. Top 10? yes.
5. Paul Toscano – another of the September Six. Exed for insubordination when defending his wife whom the apostles really wanted to excommunicate for her writings of Mother in Heaven. Dissident? perhaps. Top 10? No, his wife Margaret has a bigger reason to be here, not him.
4. Rock Waterman – I really like Rock a lot. He was excommunicated for apostasy last year because leaders misconstrued/intentionally misinterpreted his blog. In my mind, Rock was exed for insubordination. He is still very much a believing Mormon, and has simply been critical of church leaders for not following scripture. Dissident? sure. Top 10? If he is, he shouldn’t be this high.
3. Adrian Larsen – I’ve never heard of him, but apparently her is a follower of Denver Snuffer. Top 10? absolutely not.
2. Denver Snuffer – I’ve strongly defended Denver in the past. Denver has claimed to see angels and has started a movement that the LDS Church is in apostasy, but still feels that people should stay members of the LDS Church. I can see why the Brethren don’t like him. He was exed in 2013. Dissident? yes. Top 2? No way.
As you read the list in this order, I think you get the impression that these are a bunch of malcontents. I greatly respect all on the list, but I’m not so sure I want the troublemaker label. But that brings me to the top person on the list, and I think this changes perspectives.
1 – Joseph Smith. Dissident and troublemaker? Well, ok, but not in the same thought as the rest of the list. Controversial for things like the First vision, Polygamy, consecration. I’m not sure I’d call him a dissident, but OK. Here’s what the list writer said.
The founder of Mormonism, and translator of the Book of Mormon, Joseph Smith belongs at the apex of this list for the reason that a fair number of his teachings are not welcome within present mainstream Mormon society. Some of his teachings have been causing backlash and resistance against the mainstream for a long time:
He then lists four reasons why Joseph was a troublemaker. (1) He taught people to engage in a conscience – based, individualist approach to Mormonism. (2) He taught that each person should be open to the idea of trying to achieve a face-to-face meeting with God during their mortal life. (3) He taught that the Word of Wisdom is exactly what it claims to be within the canon: a recommendation, and not to be used as a coercive or exclusionary metric of worthiness… (4) He publicly taught that monogamy was the only acceptable form of marital relationship…
Huh? This is why Joseph Smith is a dissident and troublemaker? I don’t think so. This is a weird list. Apparently the list came from a guest named Joe Murff. He posted 8 quotes from Mormon leaders on independent thinking on Jana Reiss’s Flunking Sainthood blog. Joe also describes Christ as a dissident.
It’s worth nothing that the ultimate religious dissenter of all time was Jesus of Nazareth. He openly defied the religious authorities of his time, and unleashed torrents of public
criticism upon them, while acknowledging that they did indeed “sit in the seat of Moses”. He seemed to be trying to communicate something like this to them: Hey guys, your
positions of influence are important, and you came to power through God’s will, but you aren’t honoring your offices very well. Your titles and offices don’t obligate anyone to
give you obedience or respect. Please repent and do better –a lot better. I’m willing to risk my life in trying to help you see the light, but I can’t force you to see it, –you have to
open your eyes.
The post is ok, I think independent thinking is a good thing. My bigger problem is with this list. It is the hard to see PDF document that lists the top 10 list I’ve reviewed here–it’s an obscure link at the end. (Click on the link in the second paragraph above for direct link to the PDF.) Joe also lists 50 Honorable Mention dissidents, which he describes as “the best and brightest individuals in Mormon society, one must look among those who have been labeled by the mainstream as apostates, traitors, doubters, and critics.” He introduces the list like this.
A more complete survey of Mormon dissent would involve at least a “Top 500” list, and probably closer to a “Top 5,000” list, because there are many individuals and groups who have attempted to impact Mormon culture in a positive way, and more than a few of them have lost their standing or reputation in the church as a result of their efforts. Below is an incomplete, first blush list intended to identify a rough cross section of who has been involved in recent years. The list is ordered alphabetically by first name.
I think it’s a weird list. I don’t agree with him on several people. He is limiting his Honorable Mention list to current, living people, though obviously didn’t limit himself to living people for his Top 10 list. I can think of lots of people on the list ahead of Rock Waterman and Adrian Larsen. Off the top of my head, here’s a list that took me about 10 seconds to come up with: lets talk just about apostates who didn’t join Brigham Young: Sidney Rigdon, James Strang, William Smith, John C. Bennett, Oliver Cowdery, William Law, Emma Smith, David Whitmer, Peter Whitmer….. to say nothing of Sonia Johnson, Mark Hoffman, Ron & Dan Lafferty….. Heck what about Ammon and Cliven Bundy?
Maybe I’ll have to do post of Infamous Mormons and ask for others who should/shouldn’t be on the list?
I guess I’m a little flattered to be on a list with the Richard & Claudia Bushman, Kristine Haglund, Greg Prince, Maxine Hanks, Neylan McBaine, Fiona & Terryl Givens, but I don’t think I’m anywhere near as influential to be on that list. How on earth did Kate Kelly and John Dehlin stay off the Top 10 and are merely Honorable Mentions?
Who would you add/remove from his top 10? Who are your honorable mentions? Am I really Top 50 material?
Wheat & Tares 
I read the list and I am left scratching my head. Maybe the title should be “people the church leadership wished had not ever got involved with Mormonism (except Joseph Smith of course).
I am not quite sure what the author is trying to say with this list. Richard Bushman as an honorable mention? The Givens??? These guys are helping keeping many in the church – or maybe some don’t want these “weak/nuanced” views mixed in and would rather see them go and keep the church with only “pure” hard-core members.
Strang, Brodie, Sonia Johnson are 3 names that come to my mind.
I also wondered who Adrian Larsen was.
I’m guessing that he is the author of the list.
I might be missing something here, but I took it as using sarcasm to make a point. When I seen it a few weeks back and seen ‘Mormon Heretic’ on the list I smiled. I enjoy your posts! 🙂
I’d wondered if Larsen wrote the list. Thanks for confirming he did not.
Oops. Missed the part about the author. Still, he is taking a very narrow view in his top ten.
I would put Stewart Udall on the list.
Once again…Emma gets shafted. How can she not be mentioned on this list?
Denver Snuffer claimed church leaders lost their authority in April 2014, and his followers have subsequently broken off and formed their own religious communities. If we’re talking modern dissidents, he should definitely be on that list. And the curious description of Joseph leads me to believe that the author highly respects Snuffer. This is a list of people he looks up to.
If you’re looking for troublemakers, look no farther than the LDS Church’s PR department.
Did you hear Jeremy “CES Letter” Runnells is about to be ex’d? His court of passive aggressive love has been cancelled and rescheduled several times. Last I heard it was back on for April 17.
Emma Smith
Kate Kelly
Margaret Toscano
Lucy Mack Smith
Mathias Cowley
Emma’s sons
It seems there was an idea to make a list of people…and then those ideas went in a very different direction as the list went on.
“LDS dissidents” …cannot include Joseph Smith or Jesus Christ.
There was no “LDS” for Jospeh Smith to oppose or go against.
The list should first establish what authority we’re making lists from, then make lists based on those who dissent from that authority.
Orsen Pratt…can’t be on the list if he is an Apostle that wasn’t excommunicated…you can’t mix intentions on the list. Despite what M.Quinn believes…he dissented from the church. That is different than Orsen Pratt dissenting from ideas while fully embraced in the church.
To me, top dissenters should be based on their following. Strang, for example.
I love Mormon Heretic’s ideas and posts…but I don’t see a following from it.
Emma and her sons were significant.
I think George P Lee should be on the list well ahead of Kate Kelly or John Dehlin.
Heber, interesting comments. I don’t see George P Lee as a dissident. Perhaps it could be argued as such because he complained that Benson didn’t appreciate Indians like Pres Kimball did, but Lee was arrested for molesting a young girl. While that didn’t come up when he was exed in 1989, I think it was a large reason for his excommunication. I don’t view him as a dissident (although I guess it could be argued he was a troublemaker.)
With Denver Snuffer #2 on the list, I wonder how many of the Honorable Mentions are there because we campaigned against Snuffer’s excommunication. Maybe that’s why I’m on the list. While I’m not a follower, I do think Snuffer (and Kelly and Waterman) were grossly mistreated in their sham “courts of love.”
But Lee was a high ranking official in the church.
Maybe Sydney Rigdon should be on the list.
Sidney is definitely a dissident in my book.
But I don’t equate “high ranking official” with dissident. If Lee started a new church, then yes, dissident. But really he was exed for inappropriate conduct with a young girl.
Orsen Pratt…can’t be on the list if he is an Apostle that wasn’t excommunicated
uhh yeah he was…disciplined multiple times would have been the next prophet after BY if not demoted.