I have always been fascinated by psychology, how the brain works, philosophy, and how humans behave. Going through a faith transition has only increased the desire for learning more on these topics.
Many of the topics within psychology that I have taken just a bit of time to study really help me have a better understanding of human behavior. It really has helped to comprehend how others behave. One thing I picked up early on in these studies was to not only think about how theories explain other’s behavior, but how all of these things apply to ME! It can really be hard to look at yourself and admit you are not totally logical and all your behaviors are not justified. That really hit me when reading “The Righteous Mind” by Jonathan Haidt.
I was reading that book and nearly fist pumping and saying, “yeah – I can see those folks on the other side of the political isle are not even realizing what they are doing!” Then I remembered, “look in the mirror!” When I did that, it hit me even if I was right about others that they couldn’t see it in themselves, then I probably can’t see it in myself either.
I have intentionally pushed myself the last few years to try and be introspective as I have come to believe that is the only way I will grow (other than the “grow” that happens when I eat too much and exercise too little!). One such way that I have tried was really listening to the “Racism 101” podcast from Rational Faiths.
Over the years I think I have heard a bit of what was said in the early episodes of this podcast. In the past I generally wrote it off as someone exaggerating or their experience being a corner case. It was hard to hear some of what was put forward and I can’t say I am 100% agreement with every position, but I did try to really listen and think, “what if what they are saying is true?”
A few months after that initial episodes of the podcast were out, the thoughts still bounded around in my head. But the point where it really made a change in my perspective was a few months later.
I volunteered to help a local nature preserve clear out some dense overgrown underbrush. It was hard work with thorny bushes. The heat and humidity were stifling. After going after it for quite a while I needed a break, so I stood back from the activity and had a drink of cold water. While I was resting a bit I noticed the activity around one of the volunteers. She was a very beautiful lady. She was not holding back in helping. But I noticed that people (i.e. men and even boys) were almost falling over to help her (I mean literally falling trying to help). There were people helping cut the thick underbrush that she was working on. She saw some of them doing this and she was polite and thanked them. There were others that she did noticed that were making her efforts a bit easier / more productive. I kind of chuckled and thought:
“I don’t think she even realizes just how much people are doing for her, right now and probably her whole life. I think if she was asked if people were helping, she probably would say that everyone was helping everyone. She was doing nothing wrong in any way (in fact she was diving into the hard work), but I thought that I honestly don’t think she has the ability to see the situation objectively EVEN if she tries.”
Then that dang, “look in the mirror” thought came to me. It was at that moment that I realized, that *I* probably also could not see the white male privilege that permeates my view of the world. I can’t know what it is like to be a black man in today’s society. I can’t know what it is like to be a woman. I can’t really understand what it is like to be gay. To a large extent, I don’t think I ever get close to fully understanding what many other people’s lived experience is. But that doesn’t mean I shouldn’t try. And the first step in trying is for me to not to assume that I know what others are experiencing, but being curious and listen to them.
I think just as I have literal blind spot in each of my eyes my entire life and I never realized it. I can also have blind spots in my understanding of others and what the world looks like to them.
Just a few months after I came to this realization of at least some my blind spots, I was listening to “Talk Nerdy” by Cara Santa Maria (who grew up Mormon) and she was interviewing Adam Rutherford on the topic of genetics (episode 223 Sept 2, 2018). They started talking about how to start to overcome racism. They mentioned a metaphor put forward by Beverly Tatum:
“I sometimes visualize the ongoing cycle of racism as a moving walkway at the airport. Active racist behavior is equivalent to walking fast on the conveyor belt… Passive racist behavior is equivalent to standing still on the walkway. No overt effort is being made, but the conveyor belt moves the bystanders along to the same destination as those who are actively walking. Some of the bystanders may feel the motion of the conveyor belt, see the active racists ahead of them, and choose to turn around…But unless they are walking actively in the opposite direction at a speed faster than the conveyor belt- unless they are actively antiracist- they will find themselves carried along with the others.”
When I heard this I better understood some of the statements from the Racism 101 podcast. If I am letting injustices “just be” without doing something to correct them, I do have some blame even if there are examples of others being much “worse” than I am.
The last year or so I have really tried to look for where I might not be seeing things anywhere near what others might be experiencing. Just trying to be conscience of it. I do see more of it – a lot of it actually with gender, race, etc. I do have hope that I am progressing as I look back only a few years and I think I am progressing and gaining a bit more experience. But with that increased experience I feel that I know less – which I hope is proof that I am on the path to improving if the Dunning-Kruger effect is in play.
When I used to know a lot less, I had more confidence in my knowledge. Now that I have experienced a bit more, I realize I have a few lifetimes of work before I know all that much.
Which just so happens to parallel my religious life. I used to feel I had some confidence in what I knew and understood, but now I have much less confidence. But I am fine and I feel I am more open to learning. I like that more than knowing.
Have you had the experience of thinking you knew someone or something very well, only to find out later on that you see it quite differently?
What a load of chicken_scrat.
Kjugccc (not sure how to pronounce that). Can you elaborate a bit more? This blog is to help foster discussions and thought. You comment doesn’t leave much for engaging other than sticking my thumbs in my years, waving my fingers, and saying “nah nah na nah nah”.
That is what he must have meant.
Take a look at Alan Watt’s Book–The Wisdom of Insecurity. You are doing well!
Here is an odd coincidence. I was just taking a quick glance at facebook and on the right side it had a suggested group of “Woke Mormons” https://www.facebook.com/groups/1722427467841153/
Interesting! I was listening to the radio this morning on my short drive to my destination and they were discussing race and mentioned how few of us white people have black friends. Everywhere I’ve lived and raised my kids—both coasts and Utah, we’ve been in a “white bubble.” White neighborhoods, largely white schools, largely white ward. But when I hear stories of black people just going about their lives and getting stopped by police (like Eric Holder jogging in Georgetown) I realize what a privileged life I’ve led.
Blind spots and the inability to fully see/understand other segments of society besides our own is true; BUT CONSIDER:
White Male Privilege is largely identified by groups other than white male. What we should and should not say/do is dictated by other groups. Can males outline what female behavior is appropriate? Do whites tell minorities what to do to avoid racism? Can the heterosexual population lecture the homosexuals?
More recommendations include :
“You Are Not So Smart” by David McRaney (and his podcast of the same name)
“Mistakes Were Made, But Not By Me” by by Carol Tavris and Elliot Aronson
“The Power of Vulnerability” by Brene Brown
Great post. The missionaries came over the other day and they made me think of the Dunning Kruger effect. Just barely 19 or 20 years old but so overconfident about the truthfulness of what they say. Nice guys. I remember being like them. But alas, Mormonism is promoted by its leaders as a religion of certainty where the ideal is to claim absolute knowledge in a number of select truth claims. The believers who express uncertainty are somewhat tolerated but not always fully accepted.
markagblog, you ask when whites can tell blacks about racism or when males cam tell females about sexism or straights tell LGBTQ about how they should act. I don’t know if you’ve noticed but many, many males, whites, and straights have been lecturing minorities, women, and LGBTQs for decades of not hundreds of years in Western Europe and the US. And they continue to do so, just look at the president of the US and his followers and their anti-political correctness vitriol. It has been only very recently that the pushback against this has gained widespread acceptance, but a new and rather bizarre victimhood narrative has emerged among some white males that claims that women and minorities are leveraging racism and sexism against them. Laughable, just laughable.
markabloig, I must submit that don’t know what you are talking about. But go ahead, feel persecuted. Doesn’t change the facts.
The hardest issue I have been dealing with is the issue of the soul. Has neuroscience challenged the concept. Is the mind just the computer program that runs the brain? Several books that made me thing by philosophers and neuroscienctists ate Whatever Happened to the Soul? Neuroscience Psychology and Religion and Bodies and Souls or Spirited Bodies? For LDS this would be a challenge as Temple work would be pointless as the person does not go to an intermediate state but lies in the ground until the resurrection.
Males do outline what female behavior is appropriate. Every damn day. ESPECIALLY in Mormonism.
Er. Sorry. I mean in ChurchofJesusChristofLatterDaySaintism.
I really like this, Happy Hubby, particularly that it’s *so easy* to identify clear biases in *other* people, and that it always takes effort for me to consider biases in myself.
I work in an organization of about 50 people for a quarter of a century now that can be divided organizationally into 4 groups
1. Professionals- 50% black /50% white (same as local population distribution)
2, College level – 75% black/25% white
3.Administrative- 100% black
4. Operational- 100% black
My impression is that the reality of racism is much more complex than the typical social narratives dictate,
Random thoughts in no particular order:
We have far more in common than differences.
Folks is folks, black and white.
We see each other as people most of the time and forget (almost) racial identity.
Divisions and conflict usually cross racial lines not parallel them.
Most of the black people who have lived up north (in blue state) say they experienced more racism there than here in the Deep South.
We all have witnessed reverse discrimination in promotions that caused people to quit.
Lighter black people tend to be favored over darker black people by black people.
Black people can be hateful, mean and discriminate against white people just as much as the better recognized opposite tendency.
Our young children are not racists by nature it has to be taught to them.
There are some lines that you don’t cross. Black people drop the N bomb on each other all the time, like as several times a day. It can be a term of endearment or solidarity or a slap in the face. A white person can never say that, it will get them fired on the spot. There are many other examples of double standards both ways.
Most politicians today seem to me to have insincere agendas when they stir the racism pot and cause more trouble than they fix- on both sides. Although there is still room for improvement, we are a thousand times better than we were a generation or two ago.
Mike,
Yes racism is a complex phenomenon that exists in the northern states (segregation was not just a southern phenomenon after all). Although, many whites in the deep south continue to exhibit a heavy amount of confederate flag worship (arguably a crypto-racist symbol), hero-worship of traitorous confederate leaders, and Lost Cause denialism.
At first in your random thoughts you come of as saying that racism in your multi-racial work place isn’t really there. But then you seem eager to point out how people (presumably whites) are victims of reverse discrimination, how blacks discriminate against darker skinned blacks, and how blacks can be just as discriminatory against white people as some whites are to blacks. You seem to contradict yourself there. You then complain about this “double standard” of blacks being able to say the N-word but whites not being able to say it.
The further I got in reading your comment the more it appeared to be exhibiting white fragility. You’re overeager to overplay instances of racial prejudice among blacks but then downplay instances of racial prejudices by whites. Yes blacks can exhibit racial prejudice. But on the whole they lack the power and the influence for these prejudices to have systemic effects that have any overall negative impact on whites. See the difference?
John W:
You sound like a simpleton. I stated racism is complex and proceed to cite contradictory behaviors of others to illustrate the complexity. Then you rush to judgment and say I contradict myself when it is only the actions of others I observe. I am part of a minority at work of about 10% supervised by less than perfect people whose ancestors were exploited terribly by my people. Some still harbor anger and occasionally vent it on me. I am vulnerable; it is not something you label with a cliche, white fragility and dismiss. How would “black fragility” sound during Jim Crow days?
You have no basis to judge whether in the last 25 years I am too eager to overplay prejudice or frequently “take another one for the team.” You have no idea how many times black supervisors have apologized to me for racist actions of someone they supervise against me. You have no idea how many EEO complaints have been filed against me and how many were judged as unfounded, exaggerated or not. Or if black friends told me they thought the EEO screwed me over. One thing you do know, I have managed to work here for 25 years, Think about how that happened before you rush to judgment.
You a great example of exactly what this thread describes. You think you know a lot about prejudice and discrimination. Your sources are flawed and your comments have little basis in my reality. You will say the same about me. Stalemate results in continuation of the status quo . You call this progressive.
Nothing ever changes unless you listen to people, understand their problems and change. I am not as smart as you and until you listen to me I cannot teach you anything I have learned in 25 years in the trenches of this cultural war. I have learned another thing over the years. Forgiveness goes a long ways and I forgive you for your stubborn devotion to a distorted ideology and have high hopes you will come to wisdom eventually.
Black people I work with often say: You are in need of prayer. Sometimes this is an insult and sometimes it is an expression of compassion. I say this to you John W., you are in need of prayer.
Mike,
I hate to say it, but the fact that you fly off the handle for me mentioning that your comment exhibited white fragility sort of confirms my point.
“How would “black fragility” sound during Jim Crow days?”
During Jim Crow days whites were murdering and beating blacks with impunity. If being labeled as fragile is all blacks had to worry about then, then I think that they would have had pretty easy lives. I think you meant to say what if we talked about black fragility today, right? I’ve never actually heard anyone say “black fragility” but people talk about negative characteristics common among blacks all the time. Even then if that were the only hard thing that blacks had to go through even today, I think that they would lead pretty easy lives. Blacks are simply more likely to be arrested and imprisoned than whites and a recent comprehensive Harvard study shows that blacks serve more prison time than whites for the same offenses. Why is that? This is what you’re not understanding. Racism is not just learned behavior that children learn from overtly racist parents. It is also a subconscious bias that affects us all to some degree. In other words we’re all a little bit racially prejudiced and it requires learning and self-awareness to overcome these prejudices, if we can ever fully overcome them at all.
In your worldview, the days of hard overt white-against-black racism are over (with some exceptions here and there, which law enforcement now quickly and harshly deals with), and this is true. But it doesn’t mean that racism no longer exists or that blacks bear the brunt of racial prejudice far more than whites. What annoys you is progressives and liberals continuing to talk about racism and to point things out as racist that you don’t think are racist. So your reaction is to say, “oh yeah, if that is what you’re calling racist then what about all these insensitive and prejudiced things that I hear black people say, how come you never talk about that?” My experience has been that progressives doo actually mention that, but in proper context. The idea is that whatever prejudice some blacks have against whites, it doesn’t appear to have a widespread negative effect on them. But the prejudice that since whites have against blacks, particularly the subconscious kind, actually continues to have a negative impact on blacks.
I understand that there is overreaction to racism all over the place. But let’s not let some overreactions keep us from recognizing the racism that still exists and working toward reducing its effects. Let’s also not overreact to the ideas of white privilege and white fragility. These are fairly well-established and well-evidenced concepts.
Just thinking of common responses to things that I have written. For instance, I frequently hear, “how can there be white privilege of many whites are poor and suffer greatly from poverty.” My response is that white privilege doesn’t mean that whites don’t suffer, it is just that they don’t tend to have the added burden of racial prejudice against them. Also, poor blacks have it worse than poor whites on the whole and there are all sorts of statistics to back this up.
Now we are getting somewhere. my prayers are answered.
Both races suffer at the hands of the other.*
One race suffers more.
It needs to stop.
Are you with me John W.?
Cause I am willing to let the rest rest.
*In the contest of US South- About 65% white, 30% black and a few others.
Very interesting topic. It reminds of the whole concept behind the Johari Window.
Now – my only quibble is that I absolutely can’t stand the word “Woke” as an adjective.
Mike, kind of. I just don’t really see whites “suffering” at the hands of black racial prejudice. I don’t know of any statistics that really show that. I gather that what you mean is that some people suffer because of a culture of overreactiveness to alleged racism and sexism, etc. That is undoubtedly true. Many lose their careers or have their reputations tarnished because of extreme punishment over minorly insensitive comments. They get a cannon to the face when a slap on the hand is all that is needed. But to call that reverse racism is a misnomer, for in those cases people are being singled out not because of stereotypes based on skin color, but because of individual behavior. On the other hand there are those who repeatedly act racist who seem to suffer few to no immediate consequences.
There are no easy answers to making everything stop, but I think a part of the solution is in recognizing and occasionally acknowledging different privileges that we have be it because of class origin or because of lighter skin color.
Being “Woke” means you agreed to think, believe or do something that someone else appointed to you.
It is similar to “getting religion”. One day you obtain a new set of beliefs and suddenly your eyes are opened and you rejoice at how “woke” you are and how blind is everyone else. It feels great to be superior!
Since I choose my beliefs I am probably not considered “woke” by anyone and I do not judge myself “woke” either.
You see, once in Alaska I was having a dream, and I woke up, but something was a bit off; and then I woke up AGAIN (dream within a dream). From that I conclude it is probably impossible to judge oneself “woke” and I don’t accept anyone else’s judgement of “woke” since they’re just part of my dream anyway.
Superiority exists. Sometimes it is an endowment of culture and parentage; sometimes it is luck, and sometimes it is earned.
The parable of the talents shows that one obtained 5, and turned it into 10, and was praised. Another received 2, and turned it into 4, and was praised. The third received only 1 talent, and kept it; eventually returning that one talent.
No mention is made of people that are ashamed of their talent and give it away, not even returning to God with whatever talent they were born with.
Hooray for everything I have been given and I shall return to God having enhanced some of that gift.