Both Donald Trump and Bernie Sanders are doing surprisingly well in their respective party campaigns. Jimmy Fallon even asked Bernie Sanders about a head-to-head matchup!
[poll id=548]
Agency, Morality, Mormon, Politics, weekend poll
Trump or Sanders? (weekend poll)
Wheat & Tares 
Democrats, do you not remember the last seven years with one year to go? When Romney couldn’t be the President, I gave up on politicians and politics. Trump isn’t either. Don’t worry about the bad manners. There were a lot of times He would say something and I would close my eyes and wish He wouldn’t say what He just said, but that’s also what a politician would say. I’m sick of them. He doesn’t want money. He wants to do something. That’s a lot different than the last seven years.
I have never voted democrat, but I just can’t see anything good coming from trump. So I wavered between not voting and Sanders and went with the latter. “Better the devil you know than the egotistical guy you don’t know the devil what he is going to do next”. This is depressing. Signed – Not so happy hubby
Rich you are everything about a certain element of the American electorate that FRIGHTENS me. I wouldn’t vote for either of them.
Months ago I said to someone that Trump was the best thing that could happen for the democratic party, because he makes the Republicans look bad and has zero chance of winning.
I no longer hold that view, but not because any thing I said has changed. Trump is still an embarrassment, and I remain convinced that the party will rally around someone else as contenders drop out. If he wins the nomination he won’t get enough of the independent vote to win the general election. The reason that I don’t think Trump is “the best thing that could happen for the democratic party” is because he is bringing down the level of dialog. He is making the race one that is hateful, fear mongering, and totally based on polls.
Imagine this fictional yet plausible conversation:
Q. Mr. Trump, [Group 1] is concerned that you have stated that [some ethnic group] is violent and should be kept out of America. What do you say to [Group 1]
A. I’m leading in [Group 1]. And [some ethnic group] are dangerous. Someone is doing the raping. Who do you think it is?
This kind of dialog is bad for all Americans, Republican, Democratic, and Independent, regardless of who wins the election.
I would be happy to vote for Sanders. I would be quite worried about Trump in the white house. He does not seem stable to me.
This is such a poor choice to have. God help us if Trump is the best choice available. Both have one good quality. They do not have a large group of loyalists in Congress. They would have to get preferred legislation passed because they can convince political opponents or neutrals that it is good. The current president seems to be trying to exhaust all possible bad executive orders. That Trump would be far more likely to reverse most of these is what tips the balance in his favor. Trump is also less ideological and will try to keep us secure at home.
Sanders is far less slimy, but would allow entrenchment of some of the worst current policies. I am also not convinced that he will do what it takes to keep the country safe.
Every election it seems that people lament that “there are no good candidates.” However, if this is really the choice, it is actually true.
Why do we have a primary system that caters to the extremes, rather than the middle? The system is broken. Let the entire country vote in primaries, not a bunch of extremist delegates. If this were the case, I don’t think we’d have a bunch of bad candidates in which we are to choose the lesser of 2 evils. Because this time around, I do believe these are both evil choices (although Sanders does have a much better message that Trump the Racist in Chief.)
I think that Obamas have given the country a wonderful example of a devoted marriage and strong family. During the Republican convention of 2008, when Cindy McCain talked about how when she met John, she wanted him to be the father of her children, I nearly puked. He was married when they met. She wanted an adulterer for a husband? This is supposed to be the pro-family party?
Also, the Affordable Care Act is a great legacy; it has done so much to provide health security to working-aged USAmericans.
That said, I am not particularly impressed with Hillary and would prefer to vote for Sanders. I would be particularly impressed if one of them chose Joaquín or Julian Castro as a VP, as that is the future of the party. Both leading Democratic candidates are almost too old to serve–the “60s surge” is often cut short by random health events and we don’t want a Reagan redux.
Trump hands down even if he’s an a as at times he’s got common sense and the voice this country needs. I’d prefer Cruz be the nominee, but Sanders would be a socialist nightmare who’d ruin businesses, demonize those who acheive on their own and legal gun owners. He’d continue a weak stance on terrorists and a belief in global warming causes and predictions that have repeatedly been proven to be wrong and/or falsified.
I also have no doubt he would continue to say he supports equality and inclusion while glorifying division like funding for college campuses to have phillipino or Samoan centers (vs clubs) because multicultural centers aren’t enough.
He also wouldn’t protect free speech.
“but Sanders would be a socialist nightmare who’d ruin businesses, demonize those who acheive on their own and legal gun owners. ”
That is truly an original interpretation of Bernie Sander’s political intent. Especially given that he’s been in politics from the time he was mayor of Burlington, VT, to his time in the US House and Senate. That’s 4 decades. In a small state where people know one another.
All that time he’s had the same populist message and support for the rights of gun owner and gun shop operators. So you’d think the people of VT who keep electing him to increasingly responsible positions would have noticed that he was a nightmare who was a menace to their safety and fortunes.
I feel like I’m being forced to choose between Louis XIV and Louis XVI. Both were disasters, but for different reasons.
I feel like I’m being forced to choose between Louis XIV and Louis XVI. Both were disasters, but for different reasons.
this whole discussion has me contemplating where a voter actually has some potential power over an election with 100+ million votes to be cast in the general. In my entire life, I have only twice voted in a state that was within 10% points in the general election in November. One time was 2004 in Ohio, which was THE swing state in a close election and was still decided by over 100,000 votes.
I have had opportunity to vote before the primary was decided in both most recent contested primaries and will certainly have that in 2016. A move to Iowa would really increase the voting power, especially if I go to the caucus with some like-minded friends. Vote in the primaries and you can cast a ballot for the adulterer or mad scientist of your choice. Or vote for the conservative or GOP governor that you prefer. There are always at least 2 choices in the early to middle states, and usually one will be to your liking.
Wanting to halt all immigration for a time is not racist, or bigotry. And both Muslim and Islam is not a race……it is a religion and a culture and a political ideology.
So people want a communist who will further erode our Constitution, let bully racists run amuck (black lives matter, black panther party, new communist party, terrorism, Islam, gut law enforcement, destroy our freedoms, and much more). Cruz is a RINO.
Trump (as well as Senator Jeff Sessions) is the only candidate talking about America and it’s citizens, helping American workers, restoring benefits, restoring full time jobs, enforcing laws which already exist, upholding the Constitution, creating jobs instead of laying off American citizens to let foreign workers with H1B visas get the jobs, keeping out terrorists, make the borders safe, support law enforcement officers, support the military, wants to rebuild economy and not gut it further, wants lawful legal immigration, speaks truth, do away with sanctuary cities which protects illegal alien criminals, will not back down if it hurts America, not controlled by the elite puppet master money donors, Soros can’t control him the way Soros is controlling all politicians right now. Everything Trump has said has been true. Trump wants this country to be respected and not the joke it is now. Europe is collapsing and Trump wants to stop the collapse of the U.S. Trump wants to restore law and order. He will not put up with the crap going on today. We need a strong leader. Not one that back downs when threatened by facist groups like Black Lives Matter, NAACP, ACLU,CAIR, etc.
What has Mr. “the Muslim call to prayer five times a day is music to my ears” Obama done with help from both parties. ..hhmmmm….further destabilize the Middle East (and said he would protect Muslims at all costs.. wow), arm the enemy, political correctness run amok, let one race control college campuses and make ridiculous demands, throw law enforcement under the bus, refuses to acknowledge radical Islam and terrorism, is racist against all other races (except Blacks) especially Caucasians, protecting jihadist Muslims over everyone else, limiting our Constitutional freedoms, trying to dismantle the Constitution, broke Constitutional laws, breaking other laws, threatening arrests if anyone practices free speech against two protected classes, lying and lying to cover lies, Obama care is failing and Congress spending billions to prop it up (and I am all for everyone having insurance, but it needs to be done better, not fine people and not lie about it), orchestrated riots and looting of cities and college campus take overs by facist racist Blacks making ridiculous demands, the Trans Pacific Trade deal will further gut our economy (which both parties support), lying about Benghazi, setting race relations back sixty years, dropping flyers to ISIS to warn of bombings before bombs are dropped, will not allow military to do its job, will not allow FBI do its job against terrorism, spent 65 million in taxpayer money (including Biden family) on vacations and outings (how much of a carbon footprint did all that traveling and using up resources in luxury leave behind?), lying about global warming causing terrorism, sociopath Soros funded Obama 100% for presidential campaign and is calling all the shots along with Rupert Murdoch, controls the media narrative, refuses to list CAIR as a terror organization like every other country has done, supports Muslims to practice Sharia law over U.S. laws, and much, much more.
And after Obama how can Trump ruin the country exactly? How is Trump more unstable than Obama exactly? Or anyone else for that matter?
Why can liberals, who supposedly are for gay rights and women’s rights etc, support Islam which promotes violence and death to all non Muslims and homosexuals, supports women genital mutilation, wife beating, child rape of both sexes, rape of women, women are second class, stoning of women, men can do whatever they want but women have to be subservient and submissive, torture Christians and children, and more.
I have dealt with Muslims and it is not fun, quite frightening l, and most hate the West. I experienced it. And I have Asian, Hispanic, and Black family members of many religions, so don’t call me a racist and a bigot or xenophobe.
Obama and the racist facist progressive liberal left tried to blame the San Bernardino terror attack on a White male committing work place violence……refusing to call it radical Islam terrorism.
Some facist ACLU Colorado employee said all Trump supporters need to be shot before they vote, and yet these are the same people (liberals) calling for gun confiscation (Nazism), and the man was not fired. A Black female in Massachusetts tweeted to her Black bruthas to kill Trump and she was not arrested…….because she is a protected class…..it is against the law to make death threats against anyone running for office. If a White or Asian tweeted for someone to kill Obama or kill any politician that person would have been arrested immediately. The cities run by Democrats for years and have strict gun control laws, have the highest crime rates, highest violence, highest number of shootings, highest number of Black on Black violent crime, highest Black on White crime, high drug use, highest unemployment, crumbling cities, and no police cooperation to solve any crime, and the majority of the politicians of these Democrat controlled cities are the most corrupt. Where is Black Lives Matter when a nine year old Black is executed by Black gang bangers to get back at the rival gang banger father? And the father refused to cooperate with police. Anyone? Where is the outcry when Blacks, who have mile long rap sheets of violence, who are supposed to be in prison, rape and torture a pregnant White woman, then watch her bleed to death and talk about how fun it was. Gun laws prevented her from defending herself. There is too much of this crap to list.
An unarmed society by government creates totalitarianism and helpless citizens…….ask the Jews how WW II worked for them after the Nazis disarmed everyone. And how many existing laws are preventing all types of crime? Zilch.
If guns are confiscated
bombs can still be made, swords and machetes can be used, flame throwers can be used, acid can be used, poison, cars, etc etc etc. And the criminals will still have the guns from the black market.
Did banning guns in France stop the tertorists? Eroding our freedoms, which has been slowly happening but sped up with Obama and the Dems is Nazism, totalitarianism, communism. As is the lying rhetoric everyone is spewing against Trump.
We now have “safe spaces”, “trigger words”, and rampant stupidity on college campuses (orchestrated by Obama and Soros), demands to pass all Blacks regardless of lousy grades, giving all Blacks free college regardless of income (one of the Black protest leaders at the Missouri campus comes from a millionaire family, so explain how is he oppressed, and how an oppressed Black can make millions?), erasing history, all Whites must admit to the White privilege lie, diversity nonsense. Obama has given Blacks and Muslims Carte Blanche to terrorize and demean and lie about everyone else. O….M….G….too much racist facist hypocrisy to list. On some diverse college campus a student freaked out and needed a safe space, counselling and time off from class because they saw a….gasp…Dixie flag. Stop the world! A fragile snowflake was emotionally disturbed by what they saw! Great Zeus, what idiocy taking over. Thanks facist progs.
The progressive liberal left is calling Trump a Nazi. Wrong! Confiscation of guns is Nazism, threatening free speech is Nazism. Getting people fired for disagreeing with you is Nazism. He wants to protect American citizens until the mess can be sorted out. He is trying to stop what is happening in Europe from the massive invasion from happening here. Crime has climbed to staggering rates committed by immigrants. *Jimmy Carter banned all Iranians from immigrating to the U.S. during the Iran hostage debacle. No one batted an eye.!!!!*
The crap that Obama has foisted on this country is totalitarian facist communism and the hypocrisy of the Democrats is appalling, and the Republicans are a close second.
The progressive liberal mantra……free speech for me but not thee……if you disagree with me and my progressive beliefs I will destroy you. That is exactly what is happening from the liberals. The vitriol, hate, lies, inventing institutional racism where non exists, and bullying hypocrisy from the progressive liberals spouting Marxism is appalling and destroying the country, destroying lives. They do the very thing they accuse the conservatives of doing, calling intolerance when they themselves are the intolerant ones. You don’t see conservatives publicly calling for all Clinton or Sander voters be shot, or made to lose jobs for exercising free speech, or using other dirty tactics and lying rhetoric to get their way, or threats of arrest if Islam is criticized and other faiths don’t bother complaining of bigotry. You don’t see non Black races calling for all Blacks to be killed the way Blacks are calling for Whites and cops to be killed. Clinton has broken so many laws, like Obama, she should be on trial.
Every politician is out for them and their masters at your expense and have convinced you otherwise. Why do you think they are afraid of Trump? Because Trump will attempt to destroy their corrupt rackets, keep the elites from getting richer and more power ( as if they are not rich and powerful enough), restore the law instead of the lawlessness that is happening now. He may not do it, but he will try, and the elites are running scared.
Both parties want this country to fall, institute Marxism, destroy the Constitution, destroy belief in Jesus and God, they made you believe Trump is the bad and dangerous one, and you will be a part of the peon masses they trample, and make a defenseless slave class and fooled, and then you will wonder what happened and why, and how.
“Trump wants this country to be respected and not the joke it is now.”
…there’s something you need to know.
“…there’s something you need to know.”
Indeed. Trump has just been stripped of an honorary degree here, and there are calls to ban him from entering Britain…
If respect abroad is what you’re wanting Trump isn’t it.
Not sure how the LDS church would vote on this if it actually had a vote, but given its response to Trump’s latest ridiculous comments, I think it’s safe to say it’s not a big fan of Trump.
http://fox13now.com/2015/12/08/lds-church-issues-statement-in-response-to-donald-trumps-comments-on-muslims/
Tim Jones,
I agree that the church leaders are not big fans of Trump. If the Utah primary were next week, I doubt any of the Q15 would vote for Trump. I imagine that Carson would have significant appeal due to his humble and thoughtful tone and character. Other candidates that focus more on positive messages and changing policies would probably get more attention from church leaders versus those who attack domestic political opponents at almost every opportunity.
Neither. It’s time to break up the Union into more manageable size parts. Think the partition of British India after ’47. Everyone can go where they want to be.
“From destruction comes creation.”
Neither. Time to break up the Union into more manageable parts like the partition of India in ’47. People can vote with their feet.
“From destruction comes creation”
Weird, two versions posted. Second one can be deleted if that is possible. Thanks.
Is e.g.g a real person? It doesn’t seemo possible that so much ignorance, misinformation, and emotional twaddle have as its source one human being. Surely no reasonably intelligent human being could be ignorant of the fact that Communism and Fascism are two different systems that are in opposition to one another? Nor believe that the Nazis had gun controls or that such weapons could have withstood the Luftwaffe or the SS? What is particularly humorous is e.g.gis really upset they being called a racist, but not upset to be a racist. His call for free speech is just being upset that his repugnant views are looked down upon; he want the freedom to spew his combination of ignorance and bigotry {but Irepeat myself) with no social repercussions.. As a free speech absolutist , shouldn’t he applaud someone speaking his mind and calling for the shooting of Aryans?Interestingly he seems to think that because he has relatives that according to him are of all ethnicities and religions it proves that he is not a bigot. Actually’ all it proves is that he has these family members, not his attitude toward them, which can be surmised from the rest of his screed. And jobs with benefits? Sorry, the confused hysteria junkie apparently has forgotten what conservatives believe about unions. Egg is just a whimpering mass of insecurity who doesn’t understand how to construct a paragraph, the difference between various ideologies,and that race relations weren’t “set back” by President Obama, it was just the fact of our first Black president allowed the bigotries that were still there to come out from under the log they had been hiding under.
E.g.g. doesn’t strike me as racist, liberals do, which is especially funny because they are the thought police these days. Its supposed to be this big insult to be called racist….what others think doesn’t deeply concern me until it affects voting or what’s taught in school.
Trump is common sense. He may be a jerk at times but he speaks the common sense that isn’t common anymore amongst talkers. It sure is among thinkers who vote based on logic more than emotion.
I take it being called. Racist doesn’t insult you? IAnd you think that Trump’s bigotry is ok because he’s just speaking his mind? And yours I take it? Glad to see your willing to own it. Anyone who thinks Trump appeals to logic probably has trouble deciding whether to wear his sheet or his brown shirt.
I prefer Hillary to Sanders, and almost anyone to Trump (or Romney, but that’s not happening).
Sanders strikes me as reasonable; having lived abroad, I’m not afraid of socialism. Trump is incapable of even the most basic level of diplomacy; he seems to have no filter. He acts more like a spoiled child than a leader; he’s a buffoon. Sanders is also idealistic, but he’s at least not a hot-headed pundit; he’s earnest. To me, Trump would be a disaster. Any POTUS has limited power ultimately. Congress is there to keep them in check. The US is not a dictatorship.
When I’ve seen Sanders and Trump speak, Sanders is like eating your vegetables. It’s not fun, it’s not exciting, but he’s got a lot right. Trump is like eating junk food. It’s so obviously bad for you, but it’s hard to look away; he’s entertaining and cheese-covered. We need to just look away.
Egg might not be able to write a paragraph or not know a lot of history but he seems to be feeling a lot of what I am feeling what is happening to this country. Democrats are criminals and lairs and Republicans cowards and fools.The greatest thing about Trump is that he isn’t a politician. Sometimes I think I don’t even trust Romney now but if he would come into the race now; I think I would nervously vote for him. Why would I be nervous? Because he’s a politician.
Why Trump wants to waste his time and money to become President is beyond me. I hope he gets it and if he does I hope he enjoys his paychecks.
He has to love his country.
“Democrats are criminals and lairs and Republicans cowards and fools.”
Funny, I think it’s just the opposite.
Hawkgrrrl:
“Sanders strikes me as reasonable; having lived abroad, I’m not afraid of socialism. Trump is incapable of even the most basic level of diplomacy; he seems to have no filter. He acts more like a spoiled child than a leader; he’s a buffoon. Sanders is also idealistic, but he’s at least not a hot-headed pundit; he’s earnest. To me, Trump would be a disaster. Any POTUS has limited power ultimately. Congress is there to keep them in check. The US is not a dictatorship.”
‘I’m not afraid of socialism.’ I am.
‘Trump is incapable of even the most basic level of diplomacy.’ Wonderful – better than what we’ve had.
‘He seems to have no filter.’ That’s because he’s not a politician. Let’s get away from that group.
‘He’s a buffoon.’ Your comments get better all the time. I’d rather have a buffoon than what we have had – the worst president US history. Hawkgrrl, please don’t stop.
‘He’s a hot-headed pundit.’ Go to it Trump.
‘Trump would be a disaster.’ Better than what it has been.
‘Any POTUS has limited power ultimately.’ Well I guess that’s all right. That’s if we have a Congress that’s worth something.
‘The US is not a dictatorship.’ Theoretically, but that will change when Trump gets in.
I’m so glad you sent your comment before I got there. I might have missed it.
My criteria for voting is to chose the lesser of two evils. In this case it is a tossup and I would sadly abstain from voting.
Bill
““Democrats are criminals and lairs and Republicans cowards and fools.”
Funny, I think it’s just the opposite.
Oh, maybe you’re right. Who knows?
Bill:
Sorry about the screw-up. I should have added a couple of quotations to your comment.
Just because one ‘feels” something doesn’t make one’s feelings true or right. Much of what the white lower middle class is experiencing( is loss of privilege, hence the anger at “elites” by which they usually mean the educated, because a more egalitarian society will require that they actually have some accomplishments. The cognitive dissonance caused by President Obama is delicious to behold, particularly if one enjoys schadenfreude, because his well-traveled Ivy League educated self is such a contrast to their lives of quiet, ok, noisy desperation, and reflects the stated American Dream: work hard and you can grow up to be p4esident. Passt…we don’t mean “you” if your not a white male.
I recall the outrage when then-candidate Obama spoke of this class clinging to guns, flag, and religion, not because his statement wasn’t true: it’s demonstrably true. But because those shibboleths have proven to be empty. Not only will your flag decal not get you into heaven, it won’t get you into Harvard law either.