I talk to strangers. I’ll chitchat about the weather with other people waiting for the train. I exchange stories about grocery shopping with toddlers with young mothers in the checkout line. So when I was looking at the art display at the library and another woman approached me and commented on it, I easily fell into conversation with her. We chatted about art until suddenly she pivoted the conversation to her faith in God.
“Oh,” I thought to myself, “I’m a missionary contact.”
I wasn’t in a hurry. Why not have a conversation? We had a conversation. Very politely, we found out that we’d both been raised LDS. She brought up the Bible and talked about how hard the KJV is to read. I agreed and said I had two other modern-language translations of the Bible (which I do). I think that derailed the first part of her script.
We agreed that the most important thing is being a good person and being kind to others. I said that I think the most important part of kindness is treating the poor and marginalized well. She thought that was valid.
She brought up the Bible as the word of God. I said that once I’d set aside the Book of Mormon and Joseph Smith, I’d also set aside the Biblical prophets and focused mainly on the four Gospels. She countered with “No Man Knows My History,” to make the point that Joseph Smith wasn’t a real prophet like the Biblical prophets. I counter-pointed that we didn’t have contemporaries of Paul or Moses who could have written exposés about them. I said that I don’t believe I need to tie my life to the experiences of a man who lived thousands of years ago. Biblical prophets are just men who wrote down their experiences with God. I’ve written down my experiences with God in my journal; I have therefore created my own scriptures.
Her shelf-breaker was racism – she was an adult before President Kimball ended the priesthood ban. Good for her. We talked about the importance of racial equality. Then I brought up sexual equality. (I doubt she would have struck up a conversation with me if she’d seen the rainbow pin on my purse before she started talking to me.) I said something like, “God doesn’t care what kind of sex we like. I don’t like sex with men. I had the sex. I’ve got kids. I’m a good mother and it doesn’t matter about sex.” She hedged a bit and said the Bible had some verses about homosexuality. So I called back to my earlier statements about how my journal has become my personal scriptures and I don’t care what Paul and Moses had to say about sex.
I assure you that, as two former Relief Society sisters in the library, this whole discussion was very quiet and polite. I could tell when her comments were scripted (“God loves us so much that he prepared a book for us”), and saw her attempts to keep this missionary experience on track. She let me finish my sentences and I extended the same courtesy to her.
We talked for about fifteen minutes before I said I had to leave. We mutually agreed that being a good and kind person is the most important thing and wished each other well. She gave me a passalong card to the Jehovah’s Witness website, which I thanked her for and threw away later.
In hindsight, what I’m most proud of is that I repeated, “I’m a good person and I’m a good mom and God doesn’t care if I like sex with men” twice. I’m not some deviant ashamed of my existence and hoping God fixes me in the afterlife. I don’t think Paul’s or Moses’s ideas about sex need to have any influence in my life whatsoever (or DHO’s for that matter).
The whole experience was annoying enough that I thought about it off and on for the rest of the day and then wrote this post. The stealth nature of it bothered me – I thought we were both art lovers and it turned out she was just looking for an opening to do her missionary duty. The script bothered me – this was a sales pitch for her. The assumption that I didn’t understand the Bible and needed help bothered me – I don’t trust people who have to convince you that you need their product so they can sell you their product.
I served a full-time mission for the Church and, at the time, I had a rock-solid testimony and the sure knowledge that everyone needed to hear what I had to say. What I thought of as faith and love now seems like arrogance. To be fair to my past missionary self, I didn’t do the bait-and-switch conversational tactic. I wore a nametag, carried a Book of Mormon, and my first question to total strangers during a street contact was, “Are you interested in God?” Anyone who talked to missionary-me knew what they were getting into.
Since returning from my mission, I’ve never sales-pitched the Church to a cold contact. I’ve talked to a couple of friends about Church things and gotten turned down. I never tried very hard. Missionary experiences are awkward, not rewarding.
The Salt Lake Tribune carried a report from independent researcher David Thomas who studies Church growth. He predicts the Church’s growth will remain essentially flat at less than 1% through 2040. He offers some suggestions for improving growth rates, such as getting the members more involved in missionary work (no thanks; “every member a missionary” was an awkward guilt trip and it should go away permanently) and abandoning the high pressure ‘corporate sales tactics’ that focus on getting the individual into the baptismal font as soon as possible (great idea, but that means slower growth). Notably, Thomas also recommends reducing the number of U.S. missions and spending more effort on adapting missionary work and worship services to local culture. In other words, Thomas believes that the Church’s real opportunity for growth is outside of the U.S. but it will have to mesh with the local culture rather than trying to import LDS Utah culture. I can’t picture the Church adapting to local culture in any meaningful way.
Annoying all your friends to come join you is not confined to religious organizations. I spent a few years in Toastmasters, a club that builds public speaking and leadership skills. I really enjoyed it, except for the constant missionary push. Nearly every meeting and every email contained suggestions and reminders for getting your friends to join Toastmasters and how to talk to strangers about it too. It was the first time I encountered the ‘missionary mindset’ in a secular setting. I found that too reminiscent of missionary work and I actively disliked the push to spread the word about Toastmasters.
Basically, I want to enjoy stuff without being pressured into becoming a salesman for whatever I’m enjoying.
Questions:
- Have you been approached by missionaries of other faiths? What did you think of their approach?
- I’m sure you’ve noticed the similarity between missionary work and MLM businesses and pretty much every “grow your business” service out there. Did you ever appreciate a pitch like that? Do you work in an industry where you have to market in this way?
- Have you ever worked in a sales job? How were your experiences similar or different from missionary experiences?
Wheat & Tares 
Not to get the discussion off course but I would like to point out that the verses in the bible about homosexuality are not about what we call homosexuality today. They are rightly preaching against the homosexuality that existed at that time, pederasty.
At that time there were no same sex couples that were romantic partners that spent their lives together (at least not openly). Mostly a Roman man had sex with all his slaves male and female as well as his wife. Paul is preaching specifically against the practice in Rome of a man selecting a young boy as a regular sexual partner as was common at that time.
At that time the point of being a manly man wasn’t the sex of your partner, it was all about being the dominant partner in the sexual act.
https://www.hrc.org/resources/what-does-the-bible-say-about-homosexuality
David Stewart is probably wondering what he did to be mistaken for a hamburger salesman.
Janey raises some excellent points here. I join her disillusionment with the modern missionary program.
Sadly, it appears that the modern missionary program has adopted MLM techniques, just as Janey points out. Instead of being upfront and forthright about the message, there is a sneakiness and pop culture aspect that is disheartening. The missionaries are told to use hip hop techniques on social media to rope people into religious discussions. What happened to the straightforward approach?
The social media technique ignores the fact that the irreligious are not on Facebook looking to find a religion they can embrace. They are on Facebook to reconnect with old flames. They do not want their pursuit of liaisons interrupted by cute videos of missionaries singing to altered Bon Jovi lyrics.
The Church leaders must ask: what is the good of using MLM techniques on social media to bring in vast hordes of new members who are more interested in televised hot dog eating contests than they are in the Bible? The answer is obvious. Building membership amongst the hordes of TikTok users serves no legitimate purpose.
I served a mission and I deeply regret that the corporate agenda inhibited my chances for enriching discussion, mutual learning and genuine connection. While I take responsibility for my actions, it was the culture from the top that we shouldn’t waste our time on frivolities like friendship unless there was the prospect of moving someone towards accepting a commitment to come to church, read the Book of Mormon, pray or be baptised.
I “served” in France, and I think of the fascinating individuals who sat outside Parisian cafes, more than ready to share their wisdom, perspectives and knowledge with a couple of smiling guys wearing name tags, but whom we didn’t give the time of day because they didn’t show any interest when we recited Joseph Smith’s first vision.
It’s not just religion that does this, but it’s always sad when agendas get in the way of the meaningful stuff of connection and openness.
I’ve never been involved in MLM although I’ve been pitched a few times. Once by a home teacher who the same evening asked the EQP to get us a new one. I’m a lawyer and I don’t do “sales”. Almost all my clients from referrals from other lawyers, clients, or past clients. Sure, we market but not in a sales pitch kind of way. I naturally recoil and any kind of sales approach when it comes to missionary work!
It’s been 60 years since the Alvin R. Dyer missionary approach that led to what I would call an apostasy in missionary work. The result in the following decades was massive paper growth and sales pressure methods that in the long run damaged the church. And despite great efforts by the Brethren to stamp out those aberrations they continue from time to time to pop up. Pres. Hinckley commissioned Preach My Gospel partly due to this concern. He gave his talk “Feed My Sheep Feed My Lambs” after a visit to Chile where his message was, “we’re not selling a product and stop baptizing people that come in the front door and exit the back.”
Here is the fundamental challenge as to why it takes so long to bring about change. There are 400+ mission presidents in the world. They are all given the exact same training and it has been consistent for the last 30 years. They are told forcefully and unequivocally to not simply do what they did 40 years ago on their mission. They are told to follow the principles of PMG. And yet sooo many arrive in their missions and the mental muscle of “their mission” kicks in. And the same mistakes of old perpetuate themselves.
As to MLM approaches, I’ve never seen that in person. The closest would be the very rare mission where an MP gives “perks” or “promotions” for baptismal success. Again, way, way off the reservation of accepted practice. And a big NO in the mission president’s training. We treated baptisms and activations the same and never published numbers or comparisons between zones. Those kinds of practices are just plain wrong.
MP is the most autonomous calling in the Church and it is really hard for the Brethren to really get a handle on what is going on in the trenches. Every mission has a GA tour annually but they don’t really get a good sense of things in the short amount of time they are in the mission. I can tell you that what really makes a difference is when parents write the Brethren with concern about the mission where their children are serving. I’ve seen MPs released quickly based on those communications. As the Pres. of the Q12 Pres. Nelson, told me on a visit to our mission, “The Church is like an aircraft carrier, and it takes a long time to change direction.” I give them a lot of credit for trying. But human nature, tradition, and culture have long memories.
We moved into a new ward years ago and a couple in the ward immediately befriended us. They invited us to dinner, helped my husband with landscaping, invited our kids over, etc. One evening they suggested we two wives go to some relief society thing and the husbands hang out while they watched the kids. As soon as we left, the husband pulled out an Amway video. My husband told him thanks for sharing, but that we weren’t interested at all. And that was literally our final interaction. It was a weird mix of church and business, and the parallels between MLM and missionary work/church life were obvious. They were very high on the Amway ladder and had to work hard to keep that position; they truly didn’t have time for actual friendships. It’s very similar in the church, where members are too busy with “church stuff” to form real friendships, and often only have time for people outside the church in some sort of proselytizing context.
MLMers are more honest with prospects than Mormon missionaries when it comes to finances. MLMers will promise you riches and those are technically possible to acquire…unlikely but possible. On the other hand, how many baptism prospects really understand that once they are baptized, they’ll be asked to fork over 10%? I’m not sure what’s in the missionary script today but I guarantee you that even if they mention tithing, they don’t emphasize it. Get them baptized and then hit them over the head after the fact.
I’ve seen both LDS missionaries and Jehovah’s Witnesses camp out near public transit stops, and I disliked both encounters. At the time I didn’t mind talking to either on my own terms, but when I relied on public transit and couldn’t get out of talking to them before my bus/train came, it felt unfair and off-putting.
I served when PMG was still a newish thing. Tithing is one of the last things you’re supposed to each (this is no doubt on purpose). At some point on my mission, we made a switch to trying to challenge people to be baptized on a specific date during the first lesson. I don’t know if this was just my mission, or a wider thing. So we made a habit to get people to commit to a date at the end of the first lesson. Even at the time, I noticed that it seemed a bit disingenuous that we were supposed to just slip in the law of tithing at the very last moment, often just days before baptism. I felt kind of bad about it at the time, but I suppressed the feeling. Now I feel terrible about it.
A couple weeks ago the missionaries assigned to our ward ask me to accompany them to a visit with some investigators, it was the first time I had done it in a long time. It was kind of nostalgic at first, but then I remembered why it was so uncomfortable. This was the second lesson, and the two investigators already had a baptismal date. So perhaps the whole ‘get them to commit to a baptismal date on the first lesson’ thing is still going. I’m not going to go with them when (or if) it’s time to talk about tithing, I wouldn’t be able to pretend that everything is cool and normal with that.
As a missionary in South America 20+ years ago, I definitely saw “promotions” given out to Elders that baptized the most. In my experience those missionaries fell into one of two groups. Either they were the most loving, caring and earnest missionaries, or they were the most chummy, manipulative missionaries. Two very different tactics, but from a distance the results were sometimes hard to distinguish. From up close, it was obvious. Sometimes I wondered that my mission president couldn’t tell the difference between the two? Or didn’t care?
As an adult, I lived across the street from a Kingdom Hall for a few years. Once or twice a year the JWs would come knock on our door, often around Passover time. Many people don’t realize that JWs don’t have a prohibition on holidays, just on holidays that they see as non-Christian, which happens to include both Christmas and Easter (adapted pagan holidays). They don’t see any issues with commemorating Passover (Jesus celebrated Passover) or his death, which we’re specifically told to remember. Anyway, they’d come by and invite us to their memorial of Christ services. They were always pleasant, friendly and brief. We never went to their service, but it was always a positive interaction.
The OP’s condemnation of the “bait-and-switch” approach to starting a religious conversation as a missionary gave me a jolt. I was definitely trained to do that as a missionary and frequently engaged in the practice myself. I’m so sorry to anyone who felt they were “used” by me by using this technique. In my defense, when the conversation did turn to religion and if no interest was expressed, I didn’t just drop the conversation and walk away like some missionaries would. In fact, finally being rejected was my favorite part of the conversation–once it was clear that I no longer needed to concentrate my efforts on somehow getting to a gospel discussion as naturally as possible, I could relax, open up, just be friendly, and chat for awhile.
I guess I’m kind of split on the issue of using the “bait-and-switch” approach by LDS missionaries. I feel like a lot of conversations and probably some conversions would never have happened if I didn’t employ this technique as a missionary, but maybe that’s just a morally bankrupt “ends justify the means” argument. I was an American in a foreign country where the USA was viewed favorably, so I had that going for me, and that did seem to make people more willing to speak with me. It was quite a novelty for an American to be able to communicate in their native language at the time (and almost no one could put together even simple English sentences). One of my most common ways of starting a conversation was to ask questions about the local language and culture–most of the time these were sincere questions on my part, and I did learn a lot about the country I was in this way. I found most people very open and willing to share information about their country and culture with a foreigner like myself. After speaking for awhile–and I’d usually go for quite some time if I sensed the person wasn’t pressed for time–I’d tell the person why I was in their country, what my religion meant to me, and if they had any interest in learning more. In the minority of cases, there was some interest, so great. If not, as was usually the case, I just relaxed and shot the breeze with the person for pretty much as long as they wanted and really enjoyed that part of the conversation as I learned some really interesting things from people in all walks of life. I totally think that I would pick up on this bait-and-switch approach if someone tried to employ it on me, and I would likely feel somewhat used as a result (which could probably be mitigated at least somewhat if I believed the person really tried to connect with me in other ways, as I feel that I tried to do as a missionary), so maybe I shouldn’t have done it, but hopefully most people had a reasonably good experience with me. I didn’t feel like I was doing harm at the time, but maybe I was. I admire Janey’s choice to be upfront with her intentions in her missionary approaches to strangers. Maybe that’s what I should have done. I’m really not sure.
I can really only recall being approached by missionaries for the Jehovah’s Witnesses. They’ve knocked on my front door a number of times, but I’ve never had one hide their true intentions at the beginning of the conversation as was apparently the case with Janey at the library. I’m always polite, but I send them away pretty quickly. I’ve read enough about Jehovah’s Witnesses–even some of their own literature–that I know that I have no interest in participating or joining with them. I imagine that Mormon missionaries also face the same obstacles that Jehovah’s Witnesses do–there’s a lot of information about Mormons out there on the internet nowadays, so more people have likely made up their minds about Mormons when they are approached. That said, I’m not sure this would be the case today in the country I served in. I served in a non-Christian country, so people there knew very little about Christianity in general, much less the differences between Catholics, Presbyterians, Baptists, Jehovah’s Witnesses, and Mormons. I suspect the situation would be similar today.
Two different times in my life I have had extended conversations with representatives of Jehovah’s Witnesses: once on my mission with a gentleman we tracted into; once a few years ago when two young women knocked on my door. In both cases, they seemed pleasantly surprised to interact with someone willing to engage in a courteous give and take where we both talk and listen. That said, I once attended a JW service on a different occasion, on my own and without an invitation. So I also know what it is like to literally be cornered and queried before the worship service even begins. Remarkable how friendly people can be when they are assessing whether or not you intend to cause trouble. Ultimately, that too was a friendly encounter.
I know MLM is not unique to Utah, but I think I’d been there about two months the first time I got dragged to a presentation in someone’s living room. It was for selling phone cards. Good grief, I wonder what that former carpenter turned MLM salesman is doing for a living now. Hopefully either happily retired or doing carpentry again. Incredibly annoying experience. It’s frightening to think I might ever wind up suggestible to that sort of predatory business model.
Agree with Codeye – I regret that after spending 1.5 years in a foreign country with interesting people with their own stories to tell, I learned so little about them. I mean, I learned some and I don’t feel like I was super manipulative or fake, but it’s hard to really listen to someone else’s experience when in the back of your mind you think that only experiences leading to LDS conversion are “valid.” Overall I would said we are terrible listeners. I became a much better listener once I stopped thinking I had all the answers.
I can’t remember a recent missionary experience, but just yesterday my sister told us that some Jehovah’s Witnesses knocked on her door. When she saw who they were, she said before she could think better of it, “Oh, I’m not interested. I used to be Mormon and I’m don’t want to move from one highly-controlling religion to another.”
Personally, I think cold leads in sales are no better than direct marketing–you’re lucky to get a 0.5% return, and if your doing cold contacting in person, particularly with a bait & switch approach (plain-clothes like this woman was), you’re going to REALLY turn off 20% of the contacts.
I don’t remember what show this line of dialogue is from, but I think of it from time to time in situations like you are describing:
Character 1: Can’t we just talk like normal people?
Character 2: I am talking like normal. Isn’t this how normal people talk?
Character 1: Close.
I had a door contact from two JW women a couple years back, so it was not exactly a bait & switch–it was obvious what they were up to. Her opening question to me was what I thought of the scripture that even the very hairs of our head are numbered by God, which (as a former missionary) I thought was a weird opener. It was something my mom often referred to, but it always struck me as 1) a really trivial way for God to spend His time, and 2) a math problem given how much hair we lose on a daily basis.
My other bizarrely religious encounter in the last year or so was when a woman at the park accidentally caused me to crash my bike. It took me about twenty minutes to recover (I think I bruised a bone) during which time she blathered on incessantly about how she had liver surgery, and it was punishment from God because she had used birth control, and I was just horrified that she was completely insane but I was trapped until I could walk again. She was super yikes and throwing in lots of “Praise be” language that was incredibly off-putting. I’m all for “live and let live” respect for religion, but I have my limits.
Many years ago a couple of JW women knocked on my door. As others have said, there was no mistaking their intention. I engaged in conversation with them for a while but one of them got very aggressive/contentious and I ended the visit. I was impressed when a couple of days later the other woman stopped by to apologize for her partner’s behavior. I invited her in for a bit and we had a positive interaction – I even shared an articles of faith card with her. Neither of us were interested in making changes in our religion and we both respected that of the other. I’m with #Elisa’s sister – I don’t see myself ever engaging with another highly controlling religion.
It’s been a few years, but the last time the missionaries stopped by (they remained on the porch) they asked if they could make an appointment to visit for another day. I said no. They haven’t been back and I’m not complaining. My worst experience was when PMG first came out. The missionaries asked if they could “practice” the new program with my non-member husband. Much to my surprise he agreed. THEN at the end they challenged him to baptism. Bait and switch – it did not go over well and they were no longer welcome or trusted at our home.
As my brother, who left the church over 30 years ago, was filling out forms on quitMormon last week the doorbell rang. He checked his camera it was the missionaries. Their too frequent uninvited visits are a big reason he’s resigning. Oh, the irony.
Like Codeye, I served in the France Paris mission for the last 9 months (started in Switzerland Geneva). Fortunately by that time I was learning how to be more of a listener than a salesman. My last companion and I made it a point to spend time each week in the Montmartre area just listening to the local artists and street philosophers while admiring the stunning views of Paris from the steps of the beautiful Sacre-Coeur Cathedral. During that time I learned how to appreciate and view people for who they are rather than as sales targets. We made zero attempts to teach/convert anyone during that time. I have since made it a point to make frequent pilgrimages to that spot with family and friends. It is the epitome of experiencing ‘serenity now’ and opening minds.
Mormon missionaries today are far too focused on their “business development goals” at the expense of immersing themselves in the local culture and appreciating diversity. The Church is essentially a sales oriented corporation: Ward/Stake Centers are local sales and finance offices, Temples are frequent flyer lounges and members/missionaries the unpaid sales force. For better or worse, LDS product offerings are stale and not based on demonstrable truths – tough to sell in the internet age. Mormonism is not unique in that regard – most religions are in a state of decline. Make missions purely service oriented ventures. Who knows, it may improve retention.
I love the empowerment expressed in this sentiment: Biblical prophets are just men who wrote down their experiences with God. I’ve written down my experiences with God in my journal; I have therefore created my own scriptures.
Excellent, De Novo. Completely agree.
No matter what changes are made to the missionary program, I do not see the results changing. With the internet and social media (not to mention the BoM Musical), folks now know too much about the Church such as polygamy, marrying 14-year olds, blacks and the priesthood, LGBT issues, $100 billion, tithing, meetings ad nauseum, etc. Given current cultural values, these negative impressions cannot be overcome with any “new” programs or presentations thought up by the missionary department.
DeNovo: “The Church is essentially a sales oriented corporation: Ward/Stake Centers are local sales and finance offices, Temples are frequent flyer lounges and members/missionaries the unpaid sales force.”
That’s the kind of insightful writing that makes W&T comments worth reading with every post. Thank you.
About once every few years, JWs show up at my door. I tell them how much I love birthdays, and consider blood transfusions a divine blessing (thinking of all the people I know whose lives were saved by blood products), and they usually get the hint and move along.
I consider the sole purpose for the existence of JWs and Scientologists is so that us Mormons aren’t the weirdest ones on the block, so I tolerate them. As oddball high-demand religions go, we are pretty tame by comparison.
I would love if COJCOLDS could just ditch proselytism altogether, or at least stop pretending that the proselytizing we are doing is actually working. Some religions (such as Sikhs) have no missionaries and don’t seek converts at all, yet they enjoy strong identities and thriving faith communities.
After high school, I worked briefly in retail sales. It was enough of a soul-sucking experience to convince me to avoid going on a full-time mission, social consequences be damned. With the benefit of hindsight, I don’t regret that choice at all.
Hawkgrrrl, I believe that quote is from Groundhog Day. Love it.
I was on the plane to the São Paulo MTC when I struck up a conversation with the searingly intelligent man sitting next to me. When I asked him what I should know about Brazil, he many helpful things to say about the culture and what to expect. But the whole time we talked, my brain was gnawing on the idea that I should share the gospel with this guy. I had already been set apart as a missionary, after all.
So I asked him, “Have you heard of the Book of Mormon?”
“Yes, I’ve read it,” he replied.
“Oh! What did you think of it?”
“I didn’t much care for it.”
And that was that. I had no idea how to respond and I felt awkward and ashamed for not having some profound segue into a missionary discussion at the ready.
When I had my faith transition many years later, one of the biggest emotions I felt was relief at the prospect of never having to try to convert anyone ever again. I went from carrying the weight of believing that everyone I passed on the street, sat next to on the bus, or went to HS with was in desperate need of something special that only I could give them to the freedom of realizing that we’re all the same—just highly social apes doing our best to lead good lives—and that I don’t necessarily know how to do it better than anyone else.
While I am not keen on the hurry-up-and-get-’em-baptised model, I think we might err when we confirm them on baptism day or the immediately following Sunday. D&C 20:68 tells us there should be “sufficient time” between baptism and confirmation for the local folks to teach what it means to be a member of the Church. What teaching is that, and does it last hours or days, or maybe several weeks? We don’t do this teaching all, and maybe that’s one reason why membership growth is flat–the Lord blesses us when do it His way. If the “members” in v. 69 are the same as in v. 68, namely newly baptised people, then the “sufficient time” before confirmation should perhaps be measured in months, not in weeks or days. People should know what they’re getting into before they’re all the way in. Too many people join and leave too quickly, but local wards have those people on their records forever. Once in, getting out should be as easy as getting in, but that’s another issue entirely.