Repentance is an interesting concept with God in the mix. Does God take an active role in the process, and hear every request for forgiveness, and then clicks a checkbox on some sort of quantum super computer to record if He forgives you? Or does He take a passive role and the asking from the sinner is purely for self edification?
No matter where you fall on the scale of God’s involvement, the next question is what should you repent of. If you have a bad thought against the driver that cut you off on the way home from work, wishing him an early transmission failure (on the freeway at 4:30pm) and the fleas of a thousand camels to infest their armpits, do you need to repent of that thought specifically, or does an all encompassing “forgive me of my sins today” work?
Should we just repent of the big stuff? But then who defines what is big?
Joseph Smith seems to imply that you only needed to bother God with the big stuff when he said:
“Repentance is a thing that cannot be trifled with every day. Daily transgression and daily repentance is not that which is pleasing in the sight of God.”
History of the Church, 3:379; from a discourse given by Joseph Smith on June 27, 1839, in Commerce, Illinois; reported by Willard Richards.
Now nobody is perfect, so everybody is going to do something bad everyday. But Joseph indicated that daily repentance is NOT what God wants.
Contrast this to our current Prophet’s counsel on repentance from a 2019 conference address.
Experience the strengthening power of daily repentance—of doing and being a little better each day.
Daily repentance is the pathway to purity, and purity brings power.
2019 General Conference, Priesthood session
I’ve tried to think of a way to harmonize these two points of view, and cannot find a way. I thought maybe Joseph was talking about major sins, since he used the word “transgression”. But then I’ve heard church members say that Adam and Eve committed a transgression in the garden, not a sin, and transgressions are not as bad as sins.
Can you come up with a way to harmonize these two statements?
The only conclusion I came up with is Elder Benson and his 14 fundamentals in following the prophet:
Beware of those who would set up the dead prophets against the living prophets, for the living prophets always take precedence.
“Fourteen Fundamentals in Following the Prophet,” Tambuli, June 1981, 3.
So there you have it. Bishop Bill is setting up a dead prophet against a living prophet. The living Prophet wins, and you must now and for evermore beware of Bishop Bill’s posts!
Wheat & Tares 
I read that section of History of the Church just now.
https://byustudies.byu.edu/online-chapters/volume-3-chapter-25/
It looks like the Prophet Joseph was speaking to a very select group of people, most likely just the Q12 and possible a few others. Seems like one interpretation would be that he was telling them that there are many more important things that they, the apostles, need to be doing each day – so don’t waste your time (trifle with) transgressions and repentance every day. In other words, clean up your life and your daily behavior such that transgression is not a daily occurrence. A higher standard of behavior is expected of the Q12.
President Nelson on the other hand was speaking to the general membership. It makes perfect sense that he would suggest daily improvement for us and that his counsel would not be contradicting the counsel that Joseph gave to the Q12.
Joseph Smith: “Repentance is a thing that cannot be trifled with every day. Daily transgression and daily repentance is not that which is pleasing in the sight of God.” One possible reading of this statement is that one should not trifle with repentance in the sense that one should not be committing and subsequently repenting of the same sins over and over again on a daily basis. For example, one shouldn’t get up each morning, verbally abuse their spouse, and then repent of the verbal abuse before one goes to bed each night. If this pattern is repeated day after day after day, then clearly a change in behavior hasn’t really occurred. It’s certainly not clear to me from the text that that is what is Joseph was trying to say, but it seems possible.
I have lived for extended times in places in the world where Buddhism is the predominant religion. The idea of daily introspection in the pursuit of improved thinking and behavior is something that Buddhists really emphasize. I don’t see any conflict with this sort of practice with Christ’s teachings. I think the OP is indicating that this daily introspection leading to a commitment to improve one’s behavior isn’t sufficient for Christian repentance because it doesn’t also include asking God for forgiveness in prayer.
I know that praying for forgiveness of sins is scriptural, and I think that it is a good thing, but I’m honestly not sure whether it is a hard requirement. First of all, it is impossible that anyone is ever going to be able to ask God for forgiveness of every sin they ever commit because they will forget some of their sins, so everyone is in trouble if each individual sin committed must be have an accompanying repentance prayer. Second, I believe that God knows our hearts and really cares whether we’ve corrected our bad behavior, not whether we explicitly ask for forgiveness. I think praying and having a dialogue with God is a wonderful thing, and there is certainly nothing wrong with asking for forgiveness of sins. In fact, asking for forgiveness and feeling that God has forgiven a sin can be very healing for the sinner, especially when the sin is something that the sinner feels very bad about. I highly recommend it. That said, I’m not sure God really needs this explicit act for Him to be able to forgive a sin–I think he is probably quite satisfied with a contrite spirit and improved behavior.
In short, I do think that God wants us to regularly (ideally daily) introspect ourselves. God wants us to identify our sins and to humble ourselves and make the necessary corrections to our lives. Praying to God for forgiveness during this process may be optional because it really only benefits the sinner. God is satisfied with a contrite spirit and improved behavior whether or not it is accompanied by an explicit prayer of forgiveness.
@bwbarnett are you saying that apostles have less need of repentance than ordinary folks? That’s disturbing to me.
@Elisa, I’m suggesting they sin less that ordinary folks and that when they do, their sins are of a much less grievous nature. I’m suggesting that they need to repent less frequently, not necessarily that their need for the Atonement of Christ is somehow less than mine or yours. So perhaps an apostle can live a day, or two days, or more, in perfect harmony with God’s will and have no need for repentance, whereas ordinary folk might find that much more difficult and be in need of more frequent repentance.
Good morning. I love it when I read a new quote and have new information, which is now getting to be less common after being in this space so long. Thank you Bishop Bill !
The institutional church needs us to feel sinful and repent daily so we are dependent on them. They create this guilt/shame cycle in which the church always wins. It keeps people in the church and the bishop office. Many of us have passed this scrupulosity phase where you think if you read more, pray more, go to the temple more that God will intervene more in your life and your “sins” will be forgiven and life will be better. Well, what the church teaches, does not work, nor do they practice it themselves. One has to take control of your own mental health. We are now seeing the fruits of Mormonism within the Jello belt and the mental health problems there are much greater there then other parts of USA. https://www.fox13now.com/news/local-news/utah-tops-list-of-states-with-most-mental-illness . Seems like so many people are in counseling and have a life coach ( I do not see that in other USA states, as commonplace). People are mentally struggling, and the church culture of sin/repentance is the cause.
Add this quote from JS into the discussion, “If you do not accuse each other, God will not accuse you. If you have no accuser, you will enter heaven. . . . What many people call sin is not sin; I do many things to break down superstition, and I will break it down.”
Frankly, JS committed more “sin” than most of us in this group. He just changed the goal posts and its’ definition. I suspect most of us have not been found guilty in a court of law for glass looking, or lied to our wife about having other spouses, or exaggerated stories beyond a fish tale.
As for for dead prophets and living prophets, when you get into the details away from correlated church material they all contradict each other. The best advice for all of us is to enter the second half of life and provide service to others and experience greater spiritual freedom.
Excessive repentance leads to intellectual sterility. Compulsively monitoring our thoughts & behavior for righteousness is oppressive and leads, quite literally, to that oft-mentioned “stupor of thought.” Speaking personally, I limit my own repentance to these daily reminders: clean up your sometimes dirty mouth; gaze not upon the fairer gender w/ lustfulness; give that occasionally offending party a break. Maybe he/she’s having a terrible day. Happens to all of us. The “human condition” is a glory and a burden.
Let’s go back to the definition of repent. It is to have a change of heart. You can’t change your heart every day, any more than you fall in and out of love with your spouse every day. Once you love God, you don’t change your heart and stop, then restart each day. Your love is a constant growing thing.
Like, once I decided I loved my husband, I have tried every day to show that love. Each night we tell each other, “I love you.” It is a daily constant thing. Doesn’t mean I don’t ever yell at him. But the love is a constant and I try each day to love him better. I don’t have a change of heart toward him everyday. My love is much more constant than that. Sure, some days I do better than others, but in general, it is an everyday, constant desire to be with him and to make him happy. It isn’t about what I do, specifically, as in a formula of a good wife takes care of the house and children, and a good husband earns a living and doesn’t beat his wife or kids. Those rules are not enough without the love and attitude that we put the other persons happiness as the most important thing.
If I get wrapped up in my children, job, or hobbies to the point that I have stopped trying to show him love, then I need to have that change of heart and get back to showing him love, trying to understand him and his needs, and loving him everyday. Sure, you work on the love every day, but your commitment to the marriage doesn’t change everyday.
That is how we should love God. Everyday we try to show our love. It is like the direction we face. Only when we turn away, do we need to turn back around. So, everyday, we check with God about how we are doing. Every night, I tell him I love him. There is a commitment there. I could use words like “covenant path” to describe this commitment, but I think that is a commitment to the church and not to God. Our commitment to God needs to be more important than our commitment to church, or our job, or even our spouse. It is not about all the rules of religion, because those are not enough without love.
So, while love of God is an everyday thing, repentance isn’t. Repentance is only for those times when we have stopped loving God and need that change of heart or change of direction.
reframing daily repentance in terms of daily introspection and self-improvement, is definitely more palatable to me
Mormonism/Christianity in general would probably benefit a lot from an injection of a bit of Buddhism
Found this relevant article on Wikipedia concerning the Catholic and Lutheran practice of Examination of Conscience. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Examination_of_conscience
The story of the prodigal son teaches that the father forgave him before he ever repented. Universalism would teach that all are saved; however, even though all are forgiven, eternal life with God is dependent upon what we do with God’s forgiveness. As Romans states: we are reconciled by the cross and SAVED by His life. In us and through us.
I’ll save myself wrestling with these dilemmas. First, the First Presidency of the time did not like Benson’s talk. Neither did I. So I have no problem putting dead prophets against living ones, especially when I find Smith’s message more edifying in this case.
@mountainclimber – I really like that interpretation! If you’re committing the same sin every day, that starts to look insincere. I mean, we acknowledge that it takes time to permanently change behavior, but the attitude of “this is fine as long as I say the right words to God at the end of the day” is not real repentance.
And a second thumbs up for Anna’s comment.
Daily repentance for me became unfruitful when I was using it to criticize and shame myself. Monitoring my behavior was a bad idea for my mental health, because I struggled so much with perfectionism already. I had to straighten out my own thinking first. Repenting from perfectionism meant focusing on patience and compassion for myself. Rather than repenting for specific behaviors, I’ve found it to be more beneficial for me to work on developing certain attitudes. Then I take note of how I did during the day, with the goal of seeing what particularly stressed me out or sent me back into a bad habit. Learning compassion for myself was the healthiest thing I ever did. Repentance became about loving and accepting myself as I was, which then naturally flowed out to my children and friends. I wish we focused more on that — repentance is about how to remove obstacles to living joyfully.
@bwbarnett—I’m fairly sure at least several of the apostles themselves agree with you wholeheartedly.
Janey, I really liked your comment about “rather than repenting for specific behaviors, I’ve found it more beneficial to work on developing certain attitudes.” That was what I was trying to say with the idea of the direction we are facing, our attitude towards things.
When we focus so much on the small specific behaviors we can easily get caught up in a self shaming cycle. I was raised by a perfectionist and if I got 99% on a test, my mother would focus on the one question I missed and ignore the 99 I got right. It was always about the imperfections and it was never good enough. This is why the “daily repentance” thing bothers me. It is looking for the one little thing you could have done wrong and then beating yourself up over it. Well, I got enough beating up as a kid and don’t need to do it to myself anymore. So, now I try to be happy with “good enough”. Doing my best is good enough. Is it my best to yell at the guy who cut me off in traffic? Sometimes my best is to wish him a nice long slide off the road into the burrow pit and that is the most loving thing I can do for him. So, I work on patience with me and as loving of an attitude toward others as I can and that is good enough.
I think of repentance in terms of Edwards Demings continuous quality improvement: I’m not perfect, will never be perfect, but can improve daily. Hazard is to fall into scrupulosity and beat myself up over not being perfect.
It’s interesting to me that when Jesus was on the cross he did not say, “Father, forgive them once they have repented.” No, it was “Father, forgive them, for they don’t know what they’ve done.”?”
If individuals should account for their sins / mistakes daily, then people who represent institutions should confess at least occasionally for mistakes made by those institutions. I won’t name names because I feel nice today.
@bwbarnett: “So perhaps an apostle can live a day, or two days, or more, in perfect harmony with God’s will and have no need for repentance…”
I think that the idea of any of us, apostles included, being in perfect harmony with God’s will assumes that we understand His will much better than we actually do.
Consider the First Presidency’s 1947 letter to Lowry Nelson:
Nowadays, what most “normal-minded” people find repugnant is the bigotry expressed in that statement. But before we criticize our forebears, we should ask ourselves which of our current behaviors might be similarly repugnant to our descendants looking back at us from the 22nd century. Perhaps:
Turning a blind eye to global income inequality, spending our disposable income on toys while others perish for lack of food or medical care.
Slaughtering billions of animals to support our needlessly carnivorous diet, in spite of modern revelation that advises against frequent consumption of meat.
Continuing to use fossil fuels even after learning of the damage that we’re causing to our planet.
So while it’s good that we remove motes from our eyes when we notice them, let’s remember that all of us, from the FBI’s 10 most wanted to the LDS 15 top leaders, have beams that are yet to be discovered. Maybe acknowledging this will free us from unhealthy obsession with our and others’ motes.
I think the word “repentance” has accumulated a lot of baggage over the years, and I think we need to recognize and shake off the baggage.
First, there is no repentance “process” of multiple steps and extended time periods. Sometimes, repentance can be very easy and very short.
In the Geneva Bible, an English translation before the KJV, we read, “Amend your ways and be baptized.”. The KJV substitutes the word “repent,” but “repent” simply means amend your ways — that is all it means. The Mormon idea that repentance is a long process that requires self-flagellation (so to speak) and pints of tears and detailed confessions and more self-agonizing simply is not true.
Let’s shake off the baggage associated with the word “repentance.”
Our scripture tells us that repentance is easily obtained for most sins (those that are not “sins unto death”). See 1 John 5:13-18 and D&C 64:7.
In this light, daily repentance is easy. To me, the only way for President Nelson’s exhortation to daily repentance to really make sense is in this light.
Maybe I do need to repent more than Elder Bednar or President Nelson does; I really have no idea. But if that’s the case, as one commenter suggests, then it also appears that I love Jesus more than they do in light of Luke 7:47, so there’s that.
My previous world view consisted of a lot of harmful practices around repentance. For example I recall being taught when I was young if I sinned and repented but then sinned again the original repentance didn’t count and now I had doubly sinned. This can quickly get out of hand for a math-minded child such as I was. Instead I now look at making mistakes as education. As Maya Angelou said “When you know better, you do better.”
German does not really have a word that reflects the Mormon concept of repentance. When I was a missionary (mid 70s), we used the term “Busse tun” which is more commonly translated as “do penance.” Now, German publications use “umkehren” which Google Translate renders as “turn back.” I don’t know whether that change reflects theological evolution or correction of what was a bad translation all along, but I think it sheds some light on how to reconcile the two statements. Mountainclimber’s interpretation of the JS statement is consistent with JS using the term in the sense of doing penance–that is, it is a mistake to think that your sins can be repeated as long as you do the corresponding penance each time. That should not be a controversial sentiment. Nelson, on the other hand, seems to be using the term in the “turn back” sense. Nobody manages to turn all the way back at once and remain there–it is a gradual process. Several commenters have pointed to non-Mormon sources that advocate for doing that on a daily basis. Again, it should not be a particularly controversial sentiment. I don’t know what either JS or Nelson meant–I can only point out that there is precedent in the language of latter-day scripture for two different meanings of repentance and that difference offers a potentially clean reconciliation between the two statement.
lastlemming, in Spanish, the word is “arrepentimiento”, which is also used in everyday speech as “to change my mind”. One could say “I was going to go to the beach today, but I repented” All that means is I changed my mind, which really what repentance is all about. I believe like you said, that is what Nelson is talking about. But in Mormonism, repentance has so much baggage associated with it (confessions to the bishop, etc) that I think that sometime the “change your mind” aspect of it gets lost in the translation.
@Robert – Yes. 1000x yes to your post.
Candidly, I’ve reached a point in my life where I positively refuse to accept so called “moral teachings” from a corporation: masquerading as a church: and particularly an organization which piled on such horrible shame – all in the name of “repentance”. While I can personally emulate Christ and his teachings – the church can “bite me”.