If you don’t know who I’m talking about, it’s time you check out these amazing BYU students bringing light to racism on the campus. As we “discovered” through the school’s recent study on racism, the world’s worst kept secret is that BYU has a serious problem with race, and a whole bunch of students and faculty don’t actually understand what racism is or recognize it in themselves. Admissions staff also think that being “race-blind” is ideal, a policy shift that actually resulted in fewer BIPOC students being admitted. It might be more apt to say that BYU is “racism blind.” So, how do you solve a problem that students, faculty, administrators and board members don’t know they have and have every incentive, both personal and institutional, to deny they have?
Enter The Black Menaces, a group of talented BYU students, all members of the Black Student Union, who have gone viral on TikTok with their very short “man on the street” style interviews with fellow BYU students. After my daughter (who continually thanks her lucky stars she didn’t get into BYU[1]) went down a one-hour TikTok binge, watching their videos, she told me about it, and I likewise took the plunge. She wondered what students would have said if they were asked these same race-related questions by white students, and I think we all know the answer to that question.
Here are some of the many questions they have asked, for a quick recap:
- Do you believe the priesthood and temple ban was from God? So much hemming & hawing and discomfort–wowza. Most answers were “I don’t know” as if they hadn’t ever considered it, which we all know is a lie, and quite a few “Yes, God’s the culprit.” There were only 1 or 2 clear “No” answers. There were a lot of people avoiding eye contact.
- Do you support Blue Lives Matter? Do you support Black Lives Matter? The first answer was an enthusiastic yes, explaining why cops are mostly good protectors, followed by a heavily caveated yes for black lives matter that was really “all lives matter” with a dose of “so long as blacks don’t take it as an excuse to commit violence” which was yikes and a half.
- Are you a feminist? You can see some of these in the link above. Answers were (disappointingly) mostly no, a few “I’d have to research it more” (good one), and one or two immediate “YES” answers, which the interviewer agreed with.
- Would you marry someone who didn’t want to be a stay at home mom? Surprisingly most of the men answered “yes” pretty quickly to this except the one pre-med student which confirms what I’ve thought all along–don’t date pre-med guys because they are egomaniacs in the making, “pre-gomaniacs,” if you will. A lot of guys at BYU seem to share the fantasy of being the stay at home dad, and while I don’t blame them, I would just add that daycare isn’t really run by Satanic pedophiles as some conservatives like to think.
- What’s your favorite thing about BYU? Nearly everyone said “it’s cheap,” a few white kids said “sports,” one white girl said the social scene–??, most black students were completely stumped.
- Do you support gay marriage? Another one with a lot of hemming & hawing and “I don’t know. I guess I’d have to think about that” as if they had never considered it (yeah, right), a few quiet nos, and one or two yeses. This one was reposted by several queer TikTokers who responded to the weak sauce BYU student answers with incredulous faces and outrage about their rights being stripped by these milquetoast cowards.[2]
- What’s a black stereotype that doesn’t apply to you? (Asked of black students). This one was good from an educational perspective for fellow students, but the only answer that surprised me was that one black student listens to country music.
- Do you think there will be polygamy in the celestial kingdom? Almost nobody was willing to say “no.” Most looked unhappy about it but most either said yes, or said they weren’t sure.
- On a scale of 1-10, how would you rate the dating scene at BYU? (Asked of black students). I think the highest rating was 2-3, and the lowest was negative 11. Basically, that’s a byproduct of the racist teachings against miscegenation that AFAIK are still in manuals. I know they were in 2010 when my son was outraged they were being taught in his early morning seminary class. It’s absolutely disgusting that these teachings are still out there, and they have certainly been effective at making black students romantically isolated at BYU. Having said that, I felt that negative 11 in the core of my being. I too hated the BYU dating scene which, in my experience was full of creeps and misogynists.
- Who said it, Mormon leader or Hitler/Robert E. Lee? Students wanted to give Bruce McConkie and Brigham Young a pass, but those who did were wrong.
- What did you learn about Black History in February (Black History Month)? A few had learned something, but most looked like they got caught flat-footed on this one.
- Can you recognize this picture [of Rosa Parks, Malcom X or MLK)? International students fared better than American students on this one.
- What black person do you most admire? There were a few good answers here, but also quite a few who looked like a deer in headlights.
- Do you have any black friends at BYU? Most did not, but hey, maybe this interview changed that.
There’s a long history of dissent at BYU, efforts to counter the often oppressive conservative culture and to stir up thought among the student body, especially given the dampering effect of the Honor Code and ecclesiastical endorsements. When I was a student there in the late 80s, we had the Student Review filling that gap. There were also underground groups like PLU (People Like Us) for queer students. The more things change, the more they stay the same. There will always be a need for student expression, and it doesn’t matter whether BYU likes it or not, and it doesn’t matter how much they try to regulate and police it away–dissent is a vital part of human life, particularly on campuses where kids become adults.
Arguably, there’s even more need for it now than ever before with the school’s recent crackdown on LGBTQ students and allies and its declared indifference to retaining accreditation for programs that disallow this kind of oppression. The Black Menaces are doing important work here, holding up a mirror for students and faculty alike to see what they see. BYU should be grateful for the chance to examine what’s going so wrong there, but given the board’s current retrenchment, that possibility seems extremely unlikely.
Despite being featured in an approving article in the Daily Unifarce (that’s what we called it anyway), they’ve also been informed that filming on campus requires a permit, a newly invented rule to control the narrative yet again and to literally silence the conversation on race. Apparently BYU and the Church didn’t get the memo that this is Tik Tok, not National Geographic. My hope is that the Black Menaces keep up this important work, and that other students in solidarity film the crap out of everything they can on campus to expose the fact that this new unenforceable rule is motivated by racism and fear of exposure. The “man on the street” videos present what students say without commentary or response from the interviewer. This is just what people on campus said. The Black Menaces are not criticizing the students, and even express sympathy for how difficult it is to say the truth when your education hangs in the balance.
BYU seems to be doubling down on its Dolores Umbridge playbook. If you deny racism (or Voldemort) exist(s), you can pretend “All is well in Zion” and not have to make any changes. You can punish people for showing that the problem exists rather than actually dealing with the problem. Cracking down on the Black Menaces rather than grappling with the school’s (and Church’s) racism is par for the course at BYU in 2022. If you pretend it doesn’t exist, maybe it will go away.
- Do you think this kind of activism will succeed or not? Why?
- Did anything about these videos surprise you?
- If you attended BYU, what would you have said in response to these types of questions? Have your answers changed over time?
- Do you think the answers these students are giving are representative of Church members’ views in general, or are they unique to the BYU student body (due to their age and inexperience and the thought-policing culture at BYU)? How would older Church members you know answer these questions?
- What questions would you like to see BYU students answer?
Discuss.
[1] One of the biggest reasons she was thrilled to go to ASU instead of BYU is student diversity. BYU is 81% white, and less than half a percent of the student body is black. ASU is 47% white (3.5% black).
[2] A term that could describe many Mormons, and is also an excellent name for a punk rock band.
Wheat & Tares 
BYU is so gross. I don’t understand why anyone who has another option would go there but yes, these students are doing good work. Shining a light. We have church leaders who have finally come around to the idea of “leading out”in combatting racism (HAHAHAHAHAHAHA) but then won’t even acknowledge the entrenched racism in the church or condemn it in past church leaders. We have an environment at BYU, an alleged university, where there is more hysteria about “CRT” than concern about the punishing racist social environment that the few BIPOC students who attend endure.
I condemn racism in the strongest possible terms. I applaud The Black Menaces for the good work they are doing to shed light on this issue.
However, I am not optimistic that their message will have an impact on the younger generation.
The younger generation will watch this video on YouTube, but will then spend another hour in the distraction of funny cat videos. Even worse, the messages on TikTok will be drowned out by the countless videos of young people cavorting like demented stoats.
That is the unfortunate truth. As the very videos produced by The Black Menaces prove, the younger generation is too busy with pointless distractions to educate itself about important issues. Why else would simple questions receive such absurd and ridiculous answers?
I’ve watched their Tik Toks and I always wonder how representative their videos are of the entire student body. You can’t necessarily say that the answers we see accurately depict the byu student mentality because we don’t know anything about their editing process. And obviously they are going for the most clicks.
Having said that, I have no other reason to believe that these Tik Toks do indeed accurately represent the byu student mentality. And it’s a horrible look. I can understand why byu admin is nervous. And I find their new rule about video licensing so typical of byu. At a time when they should be watering down the arbitrary nature of the Honor Code, they think it’s a good idea to make another rule?
The Church in general and now byu specifically is getting gutted by Tik Tok. If you think that’s not the case that’s probably because you’re old like me. The younger folks are watching and I don’t think the powers that be have an answer. These organizations can invest in more and more SEO to try to get their message out. But Tik Tok messages are pushed (not just pulled) on to peoples phones unlike anything I’ve ever seen. Say hello to the world of algorithms.
As a former TBM (and byu grad) I have to say I love what I’m seeing. Free speech is beautiful. Let byu develop their own lame Tik Toks and we’ll see who gets more clicks.
PS: i was at byu in late 80s too when they had unsponsored social clubs (Sam Hall, etc.) and the Student Review…..I.e., the gold old days.
I have heard of them. I hope they are successful. I am appalled by the current crackdowns happening at BYU. What is this? North Korea?
I would also point out that being raised in a minority religion (LDS in UK) has left me feeling considerably more kinship with and having more in common with other minority groups. And feel very much outside the majority groups here.
Do the church and university pay no attention to how all this looks from outside the US?
Edit: I meant to say I have no other reason NOT to believe
I don’t know how common these attitudes really are. As Josh mentioned, we know nothing about their editing process. How many students did they go through to get some of these click bate responses? We have no idea.
The second reason these responses hardly represent a statistically representative survey is the very atmosphere at BYU. Too much thought control for honest answers. If I was a student at BYU, and some kid comes up to me with a camera, and asks me questions about do I thing BYU has a racist problem, or most of these questions, I am going to hesitate to answer as things run through my brain. What will my bishop think of my answer? Will it cause him to take away my ecclesiastic endorsement? What will the honor code think of my answer? What will my friends think of my answer? My parents? What was it Elder Oaks said about this? Should I give the same opinion as the general authorities have publicly stated? There is simply too much thought control at BYU for students to give honest answers. So, I have to assume that many answers are not honest answers, but publicly acceptable answers for BYU.
Will it succeed? I guess I’m not sure what that might mean. I can see the administration realizing it has a big problem and investing more effort but (as described below) I think these kids *come* to BYU racist / sexist / homophobic. So not sure exactly how BYU will be able to address.
Surprises? I was actually pleasantly surprised at the enthusiastic “yeses” from several people on the gay marriage question.
The kid who needs to “research feminism” was hilarious.
What questions am I interested in? I would love data on where these respondents come from geographically and what their majors are. I think a lot of these responses probably have a lot more to do with the person’s background prior to BYU than BYU (not that I think anyone is arguing BYU is “causing” this, but of course obviously not doing a great job improving it! And I wonder if some of the traditionally more progressive majors like liberals arts, humanities, etc produce a different set of answers than the engineers etc.
I hire a lot of people out of BYU and they would all give better answers to the questions than most. But we also screen for diversity and inclusion so weed people out in the interview process (and I have some tales to tell with some of the people who didn’t make the cut …).
@Anna what’s funny is I would think people would do the opposite. Even if someone didn’t like Black Lives Matter, I would think if a black person asked them on camera if they supported them many would fudge it and say yes to play nice / avoid offending. It is pretty obvious to me what answers will “look good” to this audience and I am surprised more people didn’t fake it. Maybe that goes to them being so utterly clueless they don’t even know how offensive their answers are (or maybe they just have loads of integrity!).
When I was at BYU I wasn’t that concerned about thought police. As long as I didn’t have boys in my apartment past curfew … So I am not sure if that is influencing them here. But I am sure it is for some.
This is a fascinating subject, and I hope the TikTok crowd has a noble purpose for what they are doing.
We see similar examples in all the world around us–
Thought 1: People in Moscow have a hard time giving straight answers right now, when asked about world and even local events.
Thought 2:. The Supreme Court nominee was unable or unwilling to answer a question about who is a woman.
I don’t think less of BYU students because of this. They are human, trying to navigate in a messy world.
@ji why does it matter whether these folks have a “noble purpose”? What inferences are you making about their purpose?
If people in Moscow are being compared to BYU that’s not a good look for BYU.
I don’t think of the Black Menaces as activists but as educators. But then, maybe that’s what activism truly is – educating.
Will their videos make a difference? I think so – to a degree. They shine a light on how sheltered and unadventurous many BYU/Mormon kids are. Maybe viewing these videos will prompt some to venture out, introduce themselves, and become friends with people “outside” of their comfort zone.
Here’s hoping.
This is great work. Albeit anecdotal. What I would like to see, but I know BYU is desperately trying to prevent, would be a scientific poll of BYU students’ attitudes to a variety of topics, including same-sex marriage, Black Lives Matter, Republican and Democratic parties, evolution, BOM historicity, etc. Any discovery that a good portion of the Mormon church’s prized population supports views antithetical to the church teachings could spur changes that the leadership doesn’t want to see. They’re taking the lighting of the Y in rainbow colors hard enough. Also, discoveries of shelteredness and ignorance could reflect poorly on the church as well.
This somewhat reminds me of Anthony Magnabosco and his work with street epistemology. The thing is, these individuals also consented to be on camera and I got the sense that they answered their questions honestly as I listened to their responses. Listening to street epistemology was fascinating as it really breaks down not what people believe but why they believe. Here also, I don’t get the impression that the black menaces were trying to influence answers; they simply wanted to see how their fellow students view the social issues of the day. I didn’t see them shame anyone’s answers.
I think how we interpret the videos may say more about us than about them. For example, the overall conclusion I came to was that BYU students don’t really care about these things given all the “I don’t knows” but that conclusion fits my worldview that these students elevate feelings over knowledge when it comes to their religion (just like I did at that age), are busy pursuing degrees and eternal marriages (just like I was at that age), and probably aren’t as concerned about protecting minorities given that their current environment lacks all kinds of diversity (sadly, just like I was in that environment). This conclusion may or may not be true. But it’s what I observed.
Contrast that to others who may see an agenda, and we are off to the races.
But regardless of the videos, BYU’s response is disgusting. If GBH is right, then the truth cannot be harmed.
I just recently followed them on Instagram! I think these students are fine, and are a pretty decent representation of BYU students. It’s not about scientifically accurate demographics, it’s about these Black students’ experience at the Lord’s U. I see a diverse range of thought among their interviewees. Their non-confrontational approach to what could be a problematic exchange is deftly handled for a bunch of unpaid students. They have a gift for knowing how to say a lot while actually verbalizing very little. But they do allow their interview subjects to ramble on at length if they choose, and some of them choose unwisely. Those are not a good look for BYU, but it’s not completely skewed, and everyone is free to read between the lines. As we do.
The segment where they point the camera at their fellow Black students and ask “why did you come here?” is brilliant and revealing. And oddly heartwarming.
I can’t determine how accurately this portrays the university’s current climate. I only have my personal anecdotal experience to draw my conclusions, like everyone else. And even that is complicated by the utter quirkiness of BYU’s last few decades of change. When I was enrolled, you could buy Sunstone magazine in the bookstore, and more that they no longer carry. But that was the climate in which the P&T Ban was being closely examined for error by the Q15 in preparation for removing it.
Over the years I have periodically returned for different reasons. One eye-opening experience for me was a visit to the MOA to see their Maynard Dixon exhibition, with my daughter who was a junior in high school. (Early 2000s) She had a spiky blonde cut at the time, way outside the norm for Laurels her age. After we finished with the main floor, we went downstairs to see an exhibit of photos, and the museum guard, classic milquetoast type student, heavily policed my daughter’s survey of the photos, insisting she keep a two-foot distance even though they were framed under plexiglass. Like, multiple times. Didn’t harass me for routinely breaking the 2 ft rule. That’s when I decided her applying there wasn’t an option— for me. I remembered from my years there, the many micro-aggressions, and a few big, major aggressions, and it was an immediate nope.
And though the haircuts periodically change, it’s plain that certain attitudes are still sheltered and cultivated, and perhaps are worse enmeshed than ever before. The new draconian policies against all student dissent, enacted to prevent any creative expressions of free spirit that students might think of, is a ludicrous joke that has backfired on officials, by the institutional reaction to shining embarrassing colored flashlight where the whole world could see it, or exposing bass-ackward attitudes on video to upload to social media. The Menaces actually showcase a diversity of attitudes at BYU, unfortunately including the bigotry that we pretend not to see. It’s become nigh impossible to shelter the bigots, homophobes, and misogynists who consider it their comfy nest anymore.
ji: My only beef with Ketanji Brown Jackson’s non-answer to that utterly ridiculous gotcha question is that she missed the opportunity to quote Sojourner Truth’s “Ain’t I a Woman?” speech.
Anna: Yes, as I said in the OP, the Menaces acknowledge that some of these answers are a byproduct of the thought-stifling atmosphere at BYU, which is obvious to all of us who attended there. While I can’t say that these answers are representative of the entire population of tens of thousands of students, there is variety in the answers to the questions.
I agree with Elisa that answers probably would vary based on college (humanities vs. business, for example). In one of the videos, the Menaces point out that the *worst* places for them as BIPOC is in general ed and religion classes, which funnily enough was my own experience in the 80s! I really mostly hated BYU until I got into my upper level coursework in English. Then I was exposed to a better quality of student on the whole.
My reaction to the embedded video above (gay marriage and feminism) is that about half the students asked the gay marriage question responded rapidly with yes, they support gay marriage. Extrapolating from those few responses would be irresponsible, so I’ll do it anyway. If half the believing young members of the church support gay marriage, the church has a gay-marriage problem that remains undealt with.
Have not watched all the videos, but I felt a lot of love for all the students, both interviewers and interviewees. One of the bits that I found disheartening is that international students were better informed about US history than American students. BYU seems to be selected by a large percentage of POC because it’s cheap. It saddens me that the degrees earned by these students will be of lesser value as BYU goes even farther from intellectual rigor.
New banner: Welcome To BYU, The White Madrassa
Ji: KBJ’s answer was an appropriate response to a transphobic “gotcha” question asked to sow discontent.
Ji, Angela C, and Ender2k – my only disappointment with KBJ’s answer is that she missed the opportunity to make it clear that she does not define sex or gender. As a judge, she interprets the law. It’s the job of Congress to create a legal definition. Agree entirely that the question was transphobic. It was a cheap attempt to score a soundbite for Fox News, not a sincere effort to understand the nominee’s judicial philosophy.
@John Charity Spring, if you think TikTok doesn’t have power to change a narrative, check out today’s “The Journal” podcast (3/30) from the WSJ. It’s all about how one TikTok jumpstarted a change to the WNBA
I’ve followed the Black Menaces on TikTok since inception and think the work they are doing is brilliant, not to mention incredibly entertaining. Their interviews don’t have to be statistically representative to be highly informative. All good research starts with qualitative efforts before moving to quantitative methods that employ random probability sampling. Beside, we don’t need their interviews or a survey to know BYU has a problem with racism. BYU’s own investigation into the matter clearly demonstrates it’s a problem big enough to warrant a detailed report that among many things was condemning of the religion department and the fact the school hasn’t provided scholarships to people of color, basically forever. Racism is a big enough problem at BYU the institution had to create and fund a new office dedicated to solving the problem.
What is shocking is (presumably) the church’s newest education commissioner’s hand in trying to shut down conversations like these. (I’m only saying this because I have yet to find anyone going back to his days with Bonneville Communications who has anything positive to say about his ability to constructively manage organizations.)
I can’t help but feel we are failing these students of color no differently than we are failing gay students. Most seem to signal regret for having chosen to come to BYU, and I can’t blame them. We need more faculty on campus like James Brau who was willing to speak the cold, hard truth to his students (speaking about getting used to having gay colleagues), but, alas, with the new loyalty oath, faculty expressions that would criticize by speaking truth to power about gay students or students of color have now been further chilled as well. The older I grow, the more I seriously doubt the church’s commitment to the ‘truth.’ Certainly they don’t believe in allowing the same enlightenment principles to work today that enabled the church to come forth in the nineteenth century. In fact, the more truth you speak–once it attracts a following–the more in danger your membership (or standing as a student at BYU) becomes.
Great group of young adults. They may bring some much needed changes to my alma mater.
I was in the Black Student Union at BYU 25 years ago. We didn’t have cell phones or tik tok and we certainly weren’t trying to shake things up. Just get in and get out…. we supported and cared for each other…. Also of note – finally came to my senses and left the church…. that racism, homophobia and patriarchy is strong.
@swimlikeabrown: Hey! I’ve been following the menaces on TikTok since Feb, found this site today, and saw you. It’s a shame time has drawn out our communication to likes on Insta or comments Facebook and chat boards . . . but for what it’s worth, I count you and your husband as 2 of my all time favorite people from my days at BYU. Believe it or not, your influence on me (and subsequently my family and those within my circles) continues to this day as I struggle to frame and re-frame issues facing our society in the lens of real Christ-like charity – especially related to the change (repentance) needed for behaviors inherent in human beings generally and members of the church specifically. Regardless whether we agree or disagree on everything I wanted you to know I respect you guys, I trust your voices, and the life experiences you have shared matter to us and influence us for the better – thank you for sharing over the years – we benefit from it! We love you guys. Andy
Apparently, the assumption that white college students need to change the way they think or think more about certain topics isn’t a racist idea. Interesting.