Predictions are hard. Following up on my prior post I’m going to take the easy way out and predict another thing we won’t hear at conference instead of trying to guess what we will.
Yes, weather predictions would be interesting and easier to do, but here is another talk you won’t hear.
“Sisters and brothers. I apologize that I have not been clear enough. It isn’t the name of the Church that really matters or specific commandments.
What really matters is whether or not what we do, what we teach, what we hope for, whether those things bring us closer to Christ or not.
The sad truth is that with any large entity, the number of specific things you can get the members to do drops. That is why General Authorities give general advice.
Much of Conference is a collection of general messages, each of which will resonate with the needs of some and not others.
The same is true of the core commandments that define our community.
So, acknowledging the limits on how many specifics we can accomplish as a Church, and in order to try one more time to focus on being more Christlike, we are replacing the Word of Wisdom as a requirement for temple recommends with a rule of being more Christlike by ceasing to backbite, ceasing to gossip and to be kinder to ourselves and to others.
We should be the kindest people on earth.
Other speakers will address the specifics and the details.
God bless you, and lead you to more Christlike lives.”
Ok.
Half of that talk in one form or another is constantly given. We are asked to be more charitable, more kind, more Christlike. To be concerned with the refugees and strangers in our midst.
The conceit of this talk is that by replacing the Word of Wisdom we would focus people to finally hear and respond to that message.
Would that work? Probably not (which is why we won’t hear this as a talk in conference).
But:
- What talk would you like to hear at conference?
- What do you think it will take for us to be kinder to ourselves and others?
- Do you think that refraining from gossip and backbiting is more or less important than the Word of Wisdom?
You are asking what talks we would like to hear in GC. Well, I love your idea. And that’s because I have never understood why the temple recommend questions (after the first 2 or so) are about obedience and cpnformity instead of being Christ-like. I’m very disappointed that the Church just modified these questions but in reality didn’t change much. How refreshing would it be to follow your guidelines above?
This leads me to a bigger point: my memory of my youth in the Church (80s) is one in which we all defined ourselves by obedience, not Christianity. It was all about he WoW, the Law of Chastity, and things like modesty and swearing. I don’t recall messages about being Christ-like. Maybe they were there and I wasn’t paying attention. But I don’t think I was the only young person in the Church who felt like my purpose in life was to obey and conform.
I’d like to see the Church go all-in on the messages of the BOM. Focussed on Christ.
josh h:
Isn’t being more Christ-like being obedient? Jesus was perfectly obedient to his Father and admonished “Be ye therefore perfect, even as your Father which is in heaven is perfect.” And if we all strive to do that, it is the very definition of conformity?
Josh. I see them trying and not being heard.
They keep trying to get people to focus on kindness to refugees. Not getting much traction.
Elder Oaks gave four commencement talks that included criticisms of the current administration and other themes. Got some reporting but no one listened to him otherwise.
I felt this topic was fair game because I’ve seen them try to preach it and not get heard.
Though I agree with you that it is important.
The 70s and 80s did have some reaction to surveys where the leaders found that at the end of the 60s kids were fine with having casual sex but not drinking a coke.
But you can see how trends go back and forth. It is kind of like sailing on the ocean. Never get to point your ship directly where you want to go, you are always adjusting for the wind and tides.
I gave you a like. Just wish I could have given more.
old man: I think obedience and conformity is highly overrated. There are some basic “laws” we better obey to stay out of trouble (see the 10 Commandments). But the idea that we should all conform to some ideal LDS model is wasted energy. I remember my daughter coming back from a summer in India where she engaged in a service project (non-LDS) and she was blown away by the non-LDS good happening in the world. And she was blown away by the Christ-like activities of Catholic charities and other groups. And her take was: these folks don’t worry about tatoos and piercings and sleeveless dresses and gay marriage and coffee. They are too busy helping and surviving. Her takeaway: she wants to be more like the Christian servants that she saw in action and less like the good Mormon who won’t tough a coffee but who is oblivious to the world around her.
As my oldest child will start high school next fall, I’d love to hear the brethren announce that due to the overwhelming science and research that early mornings are harmful to teenagers, we will now allow afternoon, online, and weekend options for seminary.
I think if they changed the WOW question to one that stated, “describe to me one example where you have been kind.” That people might start paying more attention to kindness. It would be the only question that requires the person to think about how they are actually doing. As it is the questions require no thought or self reflection.
I mean, I just came up with the question, but I am at a bit of a loss as to an example of where I have recently been kind. I have to think about it, instead f just giving an answer with no self inspection. If I have to give an example, I am certainly going to increase my own awareness of my behavior. Imagine members of cojcolds out competing each other for a good answer to that question instead of looking at each other to monitor modesty standards. I see the little old lady who can barely walk looking distressed in the Walmart parking lot, and instead of hurrying inside, I think, I need a good answer for the bishop, so I take the time to ask and then I do the walking up and down isles to find where she parked her car.
I actually was trained as a therapist not to ask simple yes/no questions, but to ask questions that made people think. So, I think it would be great to change all the questions to something more like “describe for me the last time you were tempted to be dishonest with your fellow man and what you did, then tell me what you could have done better.” Think how much more valuable TR interviews would be.
That’s a start, but how about instead of replacing WoW with kindness in the temple recommend interview, it’s:
We recognize that our past focus on “worthiness” through a series of checklists and a faith audit by a person in a position of authority over you is harmful. We want to emphasize now that your worth is infinite and that commandments are given not as a means to “prove” your worth to God or an ecclesiastical leader, but as guidelines to help you learn to care for your bodies, your neighbors, and the world around you. As such, we will be eliminating worthiness interviews. You are of course always welcome to seek advice and counsel with ecclesiastical leaders or your ministering brothers and sisters, but this will be voluntary. We will be outlining in future weeks a change to temple recommend procedures that will emphasize preparation and willingness, and a self-certification, in place of worthiness interviews. In the meantime, we hope you will prayerfully study the counsel given in the Word of Wisdom and consider how you may best apply that to yourself to best care for your bodies and allow you to be the best friend and family member you can be.
A couple of quotes to ponder:
“There are those who are virtuous from rule and duty but untouched by the principle of love.”
“We must be careful in our own devotion to the gospel that we do not begin to believe that devotion is the purpose of the gospel. We have commandments and we must obey, but the purpose of the commandments is not to obey, but to bring us worthily back into the presence of God through the atonement of the Savior.”
Kind people who weigh 350 lbs. do neither themselves nor the institution any favors. Update WoW so it does what it was originally designed to do: enhance health. Substitute soda w/ green tea (coffee, though tremendously healthful, is just a bridge too far for most active LDS); eat meat sparingly, primarily in winter; avoid when possible simple carbs and saturated fats. Prefer whole grains and fresh fruits & vegetables.
Get to the meat of it. I’d love to hear something about consumerism and meat consumption:
How about an apostle (like John and Leah Widtsoe) to chastise the congregation for gluttony of meat…?
[The most commercially-contaminated, economically-inefficient, environmentally-pollutive dietary discretion is the consumption of red meat, see Vaclav Smil “Feeding the World,” and “Should We Eat Meat?”].
Maybe the Millennials could get behind New Age Mormon Vegetarianism: with seer stones behind us, Millennials might bring their “charged” crystals and meditate on manifesting intentions…
In response to Stephen R. Marsh’s original post:
Speaking seriously (which I don’t always do), refraining from gossiping and backbiting is vastly more important than following the WOW. Both are important, but I learned when conducting TR interviews as a member of a bishopric, that although some people failed to qualify for a TR (usually because of tithing or WOW), they were more Christlike than some temple-goers in the Ward. First to help people in need. I found that out particularly when my wife had problems recovering from major surgery. Many temple-goers were there on the front lines helping me and my wife, but there were also people lacking TRs who were there in a major way, in contrast to some temple-goers who wouldn’t give us the time of day because of personal dislike.
For Old Man:
Yes. being more Christlike does involve obedience;
see Hebrews 5:8: Though He were a son, yet learned He obedience by the things he suffered.
I would also complement that with Hosea 6:7: For I desired mercy, and not sacrifice, and the knowledge of God more than burnt offerings.
The WOW is emphasized so much because it is a much more observable marker of Church membership than Christian kindness. I know that my life is blessed when I follow the WOW, but I try to remember a point that was repeatedly driven home by the Washington, D.C. temple presidency, when I served there as a temple worker: the Lord wants His work to be done in both love and exactness (referring to doing temple ordinances exactly correct). But if we are unable to do both, love must always win out.
Heavenly Father and Jesus Christ want us to do what they command. But I learned long ago to be skeptical of two bromides in the Church:
(1) If we don’t listen to the whispering of the Holy Ghost, He will stop whispering. Wrong! My experience is that if I fail to listen to the still, small voice, the Holy Ghost starts shouting, until I DO hear and obey.
(2) People who disobey the commandments cannot receive promptings from the Spirit. My answer: Saul of Tarsus and Alma the Younger. And, on a personal level, when I was in the Air Force, a young man I knew who was having an adulterous affair with a Mormon woman whose husband was away on temporary assignment. One day, after they had sex, the young man picked up a copy she had of the BOM in her home and started reading. He became converted and was baptized.
Despite our best efforts, we cannot limit God’s love and mercy. (Romans 8:31-39)
Travis, I’d love to see New Age Mormon Vegetarianism, too, but since the church owns 295,000 acres of land in Florida where they raise 45,000 beef cattle (https://newsroom.churchofjesuschrist.org/article/church-ranch-balances-agriculture-conservation-central-florida), I don’t see that happening anytime soon. One thing we know for sure is that the church is good at managing its economic interests.
Old Man, I think you may have been stirring with your comment. If you look at the verses before ‘be ye therefore perfect’ they are about loving our fellows. So in context we are to love our fellow men perfectly, as God does.
I would like to see the change from obedience to love.
In this election year, I would like to see some advice on what members should value as they choose who to vote for.
Trying to legislate to stop abortion is not the way to minimise abortion
Climate change is a threat to us all
Financial inequality is evil, and should be reduced not encouraged
Healthcare is a human right and much cheaper if provided by government.
Trump is evil and disgusting, and irresponsible. Do not vote for him He is the swamp. Do not believe the lies.
Etc
Lovely post, really. I would love to hear a talk that advises members to stop looking at the Q15 and their leaders- and instead look to Christ. Full stop. Use the spirit and the scriptures to determine how best you can honor The Savior by honoring His creations (your fellowman). If we do that, the rest falls in place.
Conference brings about such an unconscious and subliminal focus on Leadership. Almost as though the speakers are auditioning for our awe.
If someone would give a talk that says “Focus on Christ. Even though what I say might be what He would say – do what He says, not what I say. Half of what you’ll hear today is just noise. Focus on the Savior”
We all might choke on our cinnamon rolls should we hear something like that – but how refreshing would that be?!
I’ve got no beef with the Word of Wisdom, and frankly for myself it’s been one of the easier commandments to obey. But I don’t like using it as a barrier or cultural marker, so I’d love to see a change in focus. “Understanding the various divine commandments to love yourself and keep yourself healthy, have you made your best effort to live a healthy lifestyle? If not, what resources do you need to enhance your discipleship through healthy, modest living?” Or somesuch.
Even if they wanted to back away from the WoW, they wouldn’t make an announcement. They’d just stop talking about it, like they did with birth control a generation ago. Maybe they could replace the “Do you keep the Word of Wisdom?” question with “Do you strive to consume healthy food and drink, as counseled in D&C 89?” which would give members a lot more latitude in making their own decisions. If it’s healthy, it’s okay.
Whatever health benefits are conferred by avoiding coffee are certainly swamped by the negative spiritual effect of pushing thousands of LDS away from activity and away from temple activity (by the WoW questions in the TR interview). I know it is effective as a community boundary marker … but that’s a poor justification for including it in the TR interview and using it as a stick to beat otherwise good people who want to be active in the Church.
Some thoughts occasioned by the comments of Old Man and Josh H., among others:
There are perhaps three strong threads to obedience as I understand the term: non-descrimination, yielding to the Spirit, and Spiritual exercises.
‘Be ye therefore perfect.’ The completeness or ‘perfection’ [τέλειοι] of God is elucidated in the verses preceding the commandment of perfection (as pointed at by other commentators), namely:
‘That ye may be the children of your Father which is in heaven: for he maketh his sun to rise on the evil and on the good, and sendeth rain on the just and on the unjust. For if ye love them which love you, what reward have ye?’
That is to say, God’s perfection can be understood as a radical acceptance of his whole creation, without discriminating between the good and the evil (judge not, lest ye be judged) [Matthew 7:1]. This radical acceptance is obedience to God – and here I follow Spinoza from his Tractatus (iii.14): ‘…[T]o say that everything happens according to natural laws, and to say that everything is ordained by the decree and ordinance of God, is the same thing.’
All things proceed according to God’s will, thus: ‘Everything created by God is good, and nothing is to be rejected, provided it is received with thanksgiving; for it is sanctified by God’s word and by prayer’ [1st Timothy 4:4-5]; ‘To the pure, all things are pure…’ [Titus 1:15]; I form the light, and create darkness: I make peace, and create evil: I the LORD do all these things [Isaiah 45:7].; Then said Jesus unto Peter, Put up thy sword into the sheath: the cup which my Father hath given me, shall I not drink it? [John 18:11]; Let it be done unto me according to thy word [Luke 1:38]; ‘And God saw every thing that he had made, and, behold, it was very good.’ [Genesis 1:31]; ‘It is not for you to call profane what God counts clean’ [Acts 10:15]; ‘For one believeth that he may eat all things: another, who is weak, eateth herbs. Let not him that eateth despise him that eateth not; and let not him which eateth not judge him that eateth: for God hath received him’ [Romans 14:1-3]. (Also see pretty much all of Job.)
So part of obedience is to receive what is given without weighing it, without judging what has been given. (Now there’s a true side and a false side to this fatalism – which is a longer discussion).
The second part to obedience is found in this corollary scripture:
‘The wind bloweth where it listeth, and thou hearest the sound thereof, but canst not tell whence it cometh, and whither it goeth: so is every one that is born of the Spirit.’ [John 3:8]
Tolstoy in his ‘The Kingdom of Heaven is Within You’ puts it in the following terms: “Christianity does not require of a man certain definite negative acts, but puts him in a new, different relation to men, from which may result the most divers acts, which cannot be defined beforehand (Dover edition, pg. 188).
Each of us are given different gifts, each of us will find ourselves in different positions of power and ability. When we donate our gifts to those that need them, in the moment the Spirit demands, we have obeyed God. So each individual has a unique relationship with God and the Spirit, and conformity to each looks different in every individual case. Jesus’ conformity to the Spirit will be different than my own, as the Spirit blows where it listeth. There is no sense in aping the specific acts of Jesus – I need to acquire an openness to the Spirit that will permit me to act as God wills in each moment of existence.
This then leads to the third thread with regard to obedience: to train in obedience. That we do not smoke or drink coffee has nothing to do with anything. When the angel asks Adam in Moses 5, ‘Why dost thou offer sacrifices unto the Lord, and Adam answers, ‘I know not, save the Lord commanded me’ – that’s pretty great, and I would just leave it there. We don’t need to know why, even if good reasons for it exist, those good reasons are not the point. It’s clear that smoking and drinking alcohol are potentially dangerous, but on the other hand, science suggests coffee is great for you. The reasons don’t matter. It is an exercise to train the will. If we hear the Spirit, but do not act, God loses a valuable tool. (God’s will, of course, refuses to be thwarted by any act of his creatures; God has many tools, and many means of persuasion.) One must train against one’s selfish will, to hear the voice of the Spirit, and to obey – spiritual exercises aid us in this.
Anyway, there’s probably more to it than all that, but that’s roughly what came to mind. Pax vobiscum.
It seems like we’ve largely been focusing on WoW, which I don’t disagree with. I’d like suggestions for good green tea flavors to hopefully counter some personal life necessities that are known health detriments (green tea has got to be a far healthier way to get caffeine working nights than the sodas, diet sodas and loaded coffee drinks that many of my colleagues prefer.). Also yummy decaffeinated green tea for the rest of the time – I don’t find it flavored. Ideas?
I particularly like that Stephen brings up gossip and backbiting. I fear that if it were brought up in GC, the GAs would direct it at themselves. Lately a seriously awful way I behaved while in local leadership has been surfacing in my mind and haunting my thoughts. That I was experiencing high levels of life- and church-related stress doesn’t come close to excusing myself. (GAs have some collective power to change things that would lighten the strain on themselves and ripple outward for the rest of us.)
Nevertheless, it would be most profound for members everywhere to be more aware of how we think about and treat others. Can we find good intent in lessons and comments at church? If we highlight the strong parts, that would be positive reinforcement. Often, we’d find new ways of looking at things that would help us have a bigger, more complex outlook on life.
I’m sure each person has felt the piercing pain of gossip. That’s a good starting point.
Some people fit in easily, but not everyone does. Remembering that each person is a child of God is a good place to start. Recently a friend told me about taking his brother into a professional office. The people in the office consistently responded kindly, focusing on the purpose of the visit, to the often distracting way of interacting the brother had. We can do this. Be this.
My prayer is that in either of the next two conferences one of the most experienced apostles would say: “American saints, when we say we are politically neutral, we mean it. We’re not trying to protect our tax-exempt status. There is no wink/wink behind the statement. When it comes to defending one party over another as more righteous, knock it off. Just stop. Please vote, but do so after becoming fully informed by a variety of sources. And then vote for candidates whose character comes closest to reflecting your ideals and principles.”
I am typing this (in all seriousness) as I am about to go get an iced tea. Nothing will convince me that iced tea cannot be part of a Christlike life. But once I was teaching a Gospel Doctrine lesson on the WOW, and I asked those members to raise their hand if they knew someone whose life had been destroyed by drugs or alcohol or even smoking. Every single member of the class did. I’m not saying that these things should be an iron clad commandment, or kid myself that a glass of wine with dinner will lead to death and destruction. On the other hand, it is hard to lead souls to Christ whose families have been torn apart, who are homeless or chronically unemployed, who neglect their children, or who suffer the many illnesses both mental and physical that come along with severe substance abuse. No one sets out to become a drug addict or alcoholic. Due to genetic predisposition or other factors, this may or may not be the fate of someone who uses these things in what they think is moderation. So is the Church wise to discourage their use? The single largest expenditure for Medicaid and Medicare is due to alcohol and drug abuse, and tobacco use. Again, not all people who drink or smoke have lives that are a train wreck. What role can/should the church play in addressing this problem?
“ The single largest expenditure for Medicaid and Medicare is due to alcohol and drug abuse, and tobacco use. ”
Source?
Lois, I suspect englecameron is referring to things such as:
Time for a Change | Surgeon General’s Report on Alcohol …
https://addiction.surgeongeneral.gov › vision-future › time-for-a-change
It is time to change how we as a society address alcohol and drug misuse and … misuse is estimated to cost society $442 billion each year in health care costs, … spent on substance use disorder treatment saves $4 in health care costs and $7 …
I can’t be sure as I couldn’t find better links when searching. Sorry I couldn’t guess better.
Josh, and Old Man, et.al.,
I suspect that the issue with obedience is less obedience per se than the question of who and what we are obeying. Having earthly leaders who give us rules for the sake of conformity and building a compliant people, as opposed to actual commandments given of God out of love and for our benefit, is an exercise in 121ism – the exercise of unrighteous dominion. (The relationship bloggers call this “s**t-testing.”)
I don’t buy the frequently repeated line that I’ll be judged on my willingness to obey without question; God is trying to raise adults, not automatons. He gave us intellect and the ability to ratiocinate, and while he knows infinitely more than we do, he’s capable of giving us rules and commandments that are equal to our ability to comprehend. Rules imposed by leaders to satisfy their own whims and excused from explanation or reason with the platitude that “God in His infinite wisdom knows what’s best for us” don’t count. I don’t think that church leaders – any church’s leaders – have enough of an inside line to God to be able to say with any credibility that their gospel hobby horse du jour is the Word and Will of the Lord without some explanation.
The WoW is a great example. Aside from the fact that some of its precepts are contradicted by scientific discovery as we know it and as it’s developing in the years since it was revealed, and that it in some cases contradicts other prophetic/apostolic utterances (“take a little wine for thy stomach’s sake”), it’s clear that the Church’s emphasis on The Big Four subverts both the clear spirit and the letter of the law. And I hardly need mention that I have, as have many of you, been in wards full of Botoxed lips and augmented boobs on people who would never dream of a second set of earrings.
Obedience is a dangerous trap to fall into. God will not, IMHO, overlook our sins if we do wrong, with the excuse that we were only following directions, as if we were ecclesiastical concentration camp guards. We will be held responsible for our consciences, for the gift of the Holy Ghost, and for determining who and what we will obey.
As for me and my house, we’ll do our damndest to serve the Lord.
The WoW hasn’t been the subject of Conference talks in literal decades.