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It’s hard to believe that James Cameron’s Titanic was released 18 years ago.
I really enjoyed it. The larrikin Jack – the preppy Rose, the unlikely, but inevitable meeting and romance. All set against the grand backdrop of the maiden (and…spoiler alert, sinking) of the Titanic.
For the most part, it’s your standard boy meets girl movie. Whilst there is mild language, drinking and cigarette use there is nothing really controversial about it…..except for that one scene (well two – the sex scene in the back of the car certainly counts in this category, however we’ll focus on the other one).
Rose asks Jack to draw a portrait of her and, to his apparent surprise, she disrobes and is wearing nothing but a necklace. Shots expose her buttocks and breasts as Jack begins to draw. The scene ends with Rose’s young face being superimposed against her older face, as she, as the narrator, continues her story.
For some people I spoke to, this singular scene was enough to stop them allowing their kids (and themselves) to watch the movie. For others the fast forward button may have got a workout at that stage of the movie (oops, I guess you all know I watched the movie..!!).
For me, the scene was somewhat gratuitous – the movie would have been OK without a shot of breasts and bum. But I’m sure everyone has an opinion as to the artistic or moral element to this particular scene.
Below are the IMDB listed worldwide classifications for Titanic. In Italy and Quebec, for example, it is essentially rated G – no restriction. In Singapore, no one under the age of 16 can enter the theatre.
Argentina:13 / Australia:M / Belgium:KT / Brazil:12 (also 3D version) / Brazil:Livre (edited TV version) / Canada:PG (Alberta/Ontario) / Canada:14A (British Columbia) / Canada:PA (Manitoba) / Canada:14 (Nova Scotia) / Canada:G (Quebec) / Chile:TE / Finland:K-12 / France:U / Germany:12 
/ Greece:K-13 / Hong Kong:IIA / Iceland:12 / Iceland:10 (2012 re-rating) / India:UA / Ireland:12 / Israel:PG / Italy:T / Japan:G (3D version) / Malaysia:P13 / Mexico:A / Netherlands:12 / Norway:15 (original rating) / Norway:11 (re-rating) (2012) / Peru:PT / Philippines:PG-13 / Portugal:M/12 / Russia:12+ (theatrical rating) / Singapore:NC-16 / Singapore:PG (cut) / Singapore:PG13 (edited 3D version) / South Korea:15 / Spain:13 / Sweden:11 / Switzerland:12 (canton of the Grisons) / UK:12 / USA:PG-13
Irrespective of your or my opinion about Titanic, I was listening to a radio interview the other day that was discussing television and movie standards. And it raised a few interesting points. Given the diversity of the country of origin, showing, timeslot and a million other variables, I cannot verify all the information that was presented and how that might be applicable outside Australia, but here is a snapshot:
- One caller suggested that depended upon the timeslot it is OK to show a deceased person naked, but not a live person naked
- That, again depended upon the timeslot, it is OK to show a body being dismembered, but not two people having consensual sex.
I’m not arguing here to have sex all over our TV’s. There does appear, though, to be a situation where violence, even very graphic violence, is seen as OK, but even “low level” sex scenes are not.
Allow me to digress – albeit slightly. We recently travelled to the USA and had the opportunity of visiting the Metropolitan Museum of Art in NYC and the Art Institute in Chicago. My wife and I had been to both before but this time we had our kids. Both collections are magnificent. They contain pieces of art that show full frontal nudity, both male and female. This fact did not even enter my mind, either before, during or after the visit.
I don’t want this to get into a discussion about what is and what isn’t pornography. I really don’t think that discussion produces any real benefit as each has their own opinion and standard. But in the end, there were paintings, and sculptures of the naked human form. There appears to be something different between watching Rose in the Titanic lying back being drawn naked, and the actually looking at the drawing that results from that. Digression over…
I did a bit of research on Classification Boards across the world. Such boards, if they exist at all, are very different. Some are government appointed (Australia), others are Industry Based (USA). Some countries have legislation that relates to the enforcement of classifications, others no not. Some countries have “harm to the child” as being the overriding philosophical reason to classify content, others have “standards of community decency” as theirs.
There is so much variation in the way movies are classified, what is acceptable in a particular jurisdiction and the influence of private and even industry bodies (usually concerned with money) in the process.
It seems that some have taken the 1986 council by Ezra T Benson to young men regarding R-Rated movies and extrapolated it across countries and cultures. Even here in Australia I have heard people holding firm to the fact that we do not believe in watching R Rated movies. Forget the fact that, 1. The council ETB gave was to young men. 2. It has not been repeated by other GA’s, 3. R Rated movies are equivalent to MA15+ in Australia (R Rated is for 18+ only – a separate and higher classification – almost the same as NC17).
I have also heard so many members strictly enforce their children’s viewing of movies strictly and solely on a movies’ rating. I admire people for wanting to protect their children and what they see, however to rely so heavily on a rating that might have been given by someone affiliated with the making of the movie, with a vested interest, or who operates under criteria that has little to do with LDS standards of morality, seems narrow. The faith that they place in a rating given to a movie is THE ultimate and ONLY factor in allowing or disallowing their children to watch a movie.
So, did you let your kids watch Titanic??
Questions:
- What weighting to you give the rating of a movie in relation to deciding who in your family might watch it?
- I’m really interested to hear from any European saints. What is your perception of the rating standards in your countries. Is sex and nudity not so much of an issue? What about violence?
- Do you subscribe to the notion that there is “one” standard here. Ie. If you don’t let your kids watch it, you shouldn’t watch it either.
Discuss…
Wheat & Tares 
There is no one standard. Just the fact of having different cultures around the globe with different standards should prove this. There is no one right or wrong here.
Here comes heresy…
All meaning is subjective and is not based on the group but the individual. It does not matter whether one person agrees or a billion people agree. It only means that a group – whatever its size – has come to the same subjective conclusion. You decide whether to buy into the subjective meaning or in this case, movie rating, or not. But a movie standard does not come from “on high” anymore than a sign warning a swimmer not to swim alone w/o a lifeguard present. The fact of whether you comply or not says a lot more about you than the standard and what you consider “safe.” Someone else may not agree with your assessment and that’s okay. To each his/her own. Sometimes we treat our rules and standards as if they were gods!
A quote from Victor Frankl is appropriate: “Ultimately, man should not ask what the meaning of his life is, but rather must recognize that it is he who is asked. In a word, each man is questioned by life; and he can only answer to life by answering for his own life; to life he can only respond by being responsible.”
By the same token, you should not ask what the standard or movie code is but you really are the one being asked. How will you answer? By always going with the herd or by deciding what is acceptable and appropriate for YOU. BTW…by “responsible,” Frankl means being responsible to yourself – if you take the context the quote was given in. The same goes for all so-called standards of conduct – including film.
I get annoyed when we continually ask what we should do (i.e., “should we obey?”) instead of deciding what we will do. There is no one size fits all people. There never was.
Let the flaming begin…
Even my then 10 y.o. daughter didn’t go for ‘girly’ flicks (though I said it had something for everyone).
Trust me when I say I don’t recall what little of Kate Winslett’s lovely attributes were on screen. The hand across the steamed up window said it all anyway, but there was actual plot, so…
It comes down to asking what’s RIGHT, not what’s WRONG. In that case, at the time, probably paying a ‘chick flick’ debt. My then g/f had me pay at least one ‘guy’ flick with a ‘chick’ flick. I believe Starship Troopers accounted for two (we nicknamed it StarSTRIP troopers for obvious reasons).
Benson’s “R rated” statement is decades old and much has been said since then that specifically encourages personal decision making on what is worth watching and what is not, both in terms of content as well as in terms of time wasted.
And even if you decided to make “R” your standard, that would not make sense, since what rates an R today is not what rated an R when that statement was first given.
My understanding of current youth standards, in FTSOY, is “Do not attend, view, or participate in anything that is vulgar, immoral, violent, or pornographic in any way. Do not participate in anything that presents immorality or violence as acceptable.” That seems reasonably applicable to me, no longer a “youth” too. I generally do not like vulgarity, immorality, violence and pornography in my daily life. Why should I like it in my media? Note that it does not set up parameters of what specifically does or does not meet that description. You (hopefully thoughtfully) decide what does or does not constitute immorality, violence, pornography or vulgarity in a film you are considering or watching.
So…if I think a particular thing is vulgar, immoral, violent or pornographic, or portrays those qualities as acceptable, I don’t consume it. And I clearly, calmly and pleasantly explain to my children why I don’t think its a good idea to consume it and I don’t keep such in my house. If neither of us has seen the film in question yet and the reviews are mixed,and they want to watch it in our house we may watch it together and make a decision about whether it meets the above standards for us and discuss it. When my children are old enough to make decisions, they make the decisions about what they will consume in other locations. So far, our discussions of principles, combined with their own experiences, has served them well as they navigate choices.
If you think that same thing is NOT vulgar, immoral, violent or pornographic and decide to consume it, or if you think something else is vulgar, immoral, violent or pornographic and I don’t, then I may wonder about the difference in our sensibilities but that’s just because I think differences and their cultural and biological origins are interesting to contemplate. If my teens go to your house and you are consuming media, then that is my teens’ opportunity to choose what seems wisest to them, not decide whether or not you are wise. And, when they are at home, we will probably discuss what they learned from that opportunity, pro or con, too.
I do make an exception in regards to young children. With them I do make overriding decisions if I think a film is beyond the capacity of a young child. There is no need to scare a child and deal with unruly fears or nightmares or introduce subjects that they are not emotionally or intellectually mature enough to comprehend simply because I wasn’t willing to say “no” when I should have.
I hold myself to the same standard of discernment and choice to which I hold my older children. The standard is one of becoming a person for whom intuitive, spiritual and thoughtful discernment trumps emotional excitement or visual creativity or popularity. All four of those play into a decision to consume media. The skill taught is how to prioritize them in decision-making when they conflict with each other.
I don’t even remember either scene, though I did watch Titanic. My kids are too young (eldest not quite 18 yet).
I usually check out reviews on this website (https://www.commonsensemedia.org/), and teach kids to do the same.b The reviews list types of content that might be a problem (language, violence, sex, product promotion etc.) and describes the level of that content, contextualises that content, and also suggests discussions that might be had on topics in the films after viewing. Consequently some 15 rated films will get a pass from me, and some PG rated films won’t. Personally I hate inuendo and laughing at others that seems to get a pass in a lot of PG rated films.
Too young to have been around that is, not that I’d bar them…
Thanks for the link to the review site, something I’ve been looking for for some time.
However, other people’s reviews and certification can be very misleading. Some years ago we watched’Great Expectations’ as a family familiar with the book.Great version on the whole, but the scene of a sexual nature right at the start of the film, nowhere in the book, was a big deal to handle with my then 12 year old son.
I’m really not a prude or easily shocked and I think kids need to know that sex is a great part of life, but little by little and at an appropriate age. I also think the erotic has a part to play in our lives in an appropriate context and where no-one is forced or coerced into any behaviour or act.Parents need to be holding good, nuanced and developed boundaries, not knee jerk reactions. This requires a lot of refelction.
What really freaks me out is the linking of violence to sex that has become pervasive in our culture with games like GTA. This is the absolute line I draw in my home, and met with other no-mo parents of my kids friends to discuss this as I felt the danger was that the kids would just play it outside the home otherwise.Interestingly, I found them really receptive over a cup of coffee (mormon tea for me please).
We have to help our kids grow up in the real world and cannot be watching over their shoulders when they hit college-which can be a very sudden cut off of parental power if we don’t offer them a more nuanced world view before they leave us.
As for ‘Titanic’, never saw it, never will because for me those were real people whose death seems to have become entertainment, which I find uncomfortable and makes me feel like a gawker.
Never saw Titanic – just wasn’t interested. Got to see the BYU students all flipped trying to decide if they would go to the theater, tho! I choose what I watch -I’ve seen how the MPAA ratings can be gamed so those minimally factor in to my choice- but I also don’t like to be pounded by sex and violence for 2 hours.
I use the following site http://www.kids-in-mind.com/ to help me make decisions on what I watch and what I decide is appropriate for my children to watch.
I for a long time had not watched rated R movies (in the US) and still avoid them as a general rule. My hot button is sexnudity and language, more the prior. I will watch a movie with more language if that language is in context. I have recently changed my stance to if the story of a rated R movie is something that I am interested in I will watch it if the thresh holds from the site mentioned above are such that I feel like it is worth my time for entertainment value.
I rarely do watch movies without my kids but, there are some obvious exceptions. I have seen most of the movies that my kids watch.
Would I let them watch Titanic? Probably not, but that is because I hated the movie when I saw it and the nudity wasn’t the real reason, I just thought it was terrible. And let’s face it her breasts were not that impressive.
A movie’s trailer and promotional material can usually give you an indication of whether your kids should see it, because …
“We do not need manmade ratings systems to determine what we should read, what we should watch, what we should listen to or how we should conduct our lives. What we do need to do is to live worthy of the continued companionship of the Holy Ghost and have the courage to follow the promptings that come into our lives.” — L. Tom Perry ,6 April 1997
I was in middle school when the movie came out, and was expressly forbidden from watching the movie by my mother. I did eventually watch it when I was babysitting one night and the kids were sound asleep. Though the parents came home while the boat was capsizing so I still to this day haven’t seen the oh so frequently parodied raft scene.
My mother didn’t only go off of rating she went off of any content she found objectionable. Usually sex related. I still remember her throwing out our copy of Finding Forester because you can hear people having sex in the background through the apartment walls. Apparently she was asleep during this scene when we watched it in theaters. Otherwise I’m sure she would have made us walk out.
handlewithcare, golly! Whose version of Great Expectations was that one? Certainly with you on the linking of sex and violence, and that our kids need to develop their own skills in determining what and what not to watch.
I recall that as university student I was baffled by the way my parents drew boundaries. Mutiny on the Bounty was fine apparently, with topless native women, who were obviously being taken advantage of by the sailors (even though that was not explicitly shown), whilst Kramer v. Kramer did not pass. Both films involved adultery (presumably en mass in the former), and some element of nudity…
I was 16 when it came out. It’s an epic story full of tragedy. Good stuff. I went on a date to it. That part was awkward. We got over it.
My daughter has always been medically minded and knew about the facts of life from an early age. She’s always wanted to be a doctor and fascinated by how biology works. Because of that I think she’s always been a little more mature to handle and understand relationships, that some have sex in them before marriage, that some married people make bad choices and have gitlfriends, etc. as regards to violence I’ve been pretty strict about shielding her from it on TV/movies; but not in real life. For example our copy of Newsweek w pictures of the Syrian war would be out and she would look at the pictures and ask questions. We were slow to introduce her to superhero movies bc of the violence. Now that she’s 11 we selectively let her watch pg13, based on content. I’m a stickler for graphic/gratuitous depictions.
On the other hand we just bought 3 tickets to see Hamilton next year on Broadway. She’ll be 11; and it has language (right now she skips explicit songs) and the country’s first political sex scandal.
The most important thing for me to teach my kid is how to critically interpret what she is seeing; (can she draw conclusions about pride and immorality in Hamilton leading to downfall and tragedy?) not necessarily shield her from content.
To each their own.
I’d rather have my kids see a few brief moments of nudity any day than all the various kinds of violence they can see on TV or at the movies. The unclad body is not evil; watching people kill other people is.
We were shocked one day when we got home from work to get our kids at my SIL’s place when our oldest son said they had watched Titanic. She said to us that she was surprised they were allowed to watch it, but they had said they had already seen it and quoted a lot of it to her, so she believed them. She didn’t realize we had conveniently “skipped” the naughty bits when we showed it to them. Oops.
When we lived in Singapore my oldest son and I were both excited to go see The King’s Speech. It was rated R in the US, but it was rated PG in Singapore. We thought maybe Singapore censored it, but no, they showed it in its same normal format. The only reason the US rated it R was for profanity, and it was just the one scene when the king finally breaks through his terrible stage fright. There was really no good reason for it to be rated R.
My oldest was in grade school and she did not get to watch it at that time.
I’ve stopped using ratings because we were missing some really great movies. We use screenit.com.
Ya I’m not a not a bad parent, but I do let my kids watch titanic, it’s a classic. My 9 year old girl and her best friend who is a boy watches that movie and watching them watch it is hilarious the boy all makes fun of him and says he is sexy jack!!!!!🤗
My vote , yes!