A common topic in online Mormon discussion groups is what to do when one spouse believes, and the other does not. I have known so many couples who have gone through this in their marriage. In many cases, it is a deal breaker.
Back before the pandemic, I was talking with two ward friends about a mission companion I had just recently caught up with. This companion said she was having a hard time dealing with her husband. They had several kids, some of whom were mixed race, and her husband was a very avid Trump supporter. She felt Trump was talking about people like their kids with animus, championing their marginalization. He mostly ignored or dismissed her arguments. She wasn’t sure their marriage was going to survive this values split. As I was telling these sisters about my friend’s situation, I said I would not be able to do it. I couldn’t be married to someone whose values were so different from my own. One of the two said everyone has their deal breakers, and we all more or less agreed (FWIW, there’s a 95% chance both of them voted for Trump, but I wasn’t married to them). The other one said that if her husband left the Church, she would leave him. I shook my head and said that was not a deal breaker for me, I have family members who are not in the Church, and you can’t force religious belief. But she’s not rare in making this her deal breaker.
What surprised me was when her husband gave a talk at Church and talked about his conversion story. He had not been a member when they met and got married. He only joined the Church a few years later. She was married to the same person as a non-member before he joined. But if he left, now that he had joined, that would be too much. It still confuses me. I suppose the whole time she was expecting him to join, but if he left after joining that would (to her) mean there was no hope for him to join. Or something like that.
I ran across an interesting poll on Reddit about the outcomes of mixed faith marriages. This was in an ExMo discussion board, so the answers are from the perspective of the person who no longer believed in the Church. There were 374 responses to the poll options. Here are the results:
- Both left the Church together: 54%
- Mixed faith, but making it work: 20%
- Got divorced: 10%
- Mixed faith, tense & icy, but we’ll be fine in time: 8% (hopefully they are right!)
- Mixed faith, tense & icy, we’ll probably get divorced: 4%
- Left the Church together, but later got divorced: 4%
One “miss” in the poll options, as pointed out in the discussion was that in many relationships, one spouse left before the other, and the other followed later. I think we all know people in all these categories. Some of the things that cause tensions in these Mormon mixed faith marriages are the same as in all mixed faith marriages (or even just marriages in general), but some are unique to Mormon culture:
- Perceived contempt or lack of respect (either direction)
- Controlling behaviors (either direction)
- Parenting disagreements
- Entitled feelings (usually by believers), fostered by Church teachings (particularly in YM/YW or on missions), that they “deserve” a believing spouse – I suspect this might have been a factor for my friend in the story above; there is a loss of status perception
- Orthopraxic differences (behaviors as opposed to beliefs, such as alcohol, garments, coffee, or tithing choices)
- Social or family pressures
- Communication breakdown
The last one is kind of funny because from what I can tell, marriages are almost always really bad at communication. Humans are bad at it. Only people in therapy learn how to get good at it. Instead we make assumptions about the other person’s thoughts, beliefs, and feelings. One woman shared a funny story on a Reddit thread about her last day at Church. She came home after a particularly bad lesson in Relief Society and said she had had enough and was not going to go back. She told her husband this with great trepidation as they had always attended Church during their marriage. She was convinced he was going to be angry and possibly threaten divorce. He said he’d be right back, then left in his car while she chewed her fingernails, fearing the worst. He returned minutes later with a bottle of champagne to celebrate. (Betcha didn’t see that one coming–neither did she!)
Being a member of the Church is hard. It requires a lot of commitment and inconvenience. Callings may take a spouse out of the home and away from the family[1] for more time than they or their spouse would like. When one quits, the other may resent or envy their freedom from these burdens, or the one who has left may resent the remaining spouse’s priorities. Without some level of respect and communication, patience, love unfeigned, all that good stuff, divorce probably is imminent.
But looking back at the stats, I found it interesting that divorce was not the outcome for the majority, which is hopeful. Although we can’t accurately predict the couples who are still working things out, it’s likely that some of the 8% who think it will work out are wrong, and some of the 4% who think it won’t work out are also wrong. Among the people I know who have left the Church, those who have stayed together are definitely in the majority, and the eventuality of them both leaving is also a majority (rather than a one in / one out indefinitely).
- If you are in a mixed faith marriage, how would you describe the impacts?
- Do these percentages ring true for the people you know?
- What would be your deal breaker(s) in your relationship?
Discuss.
[1] One man in a bishopric felt exhausted after spending an entire Sunday in Church meetings or doing Church business, before sunrise until after sunset, and sitting in his driveway, watching his family through the window, he vowed he would never do this again. That was his last Sunday at Church.
Wheat & Tares 
I’m in a mixed faith marriage. I can only speak to my side but I’d say we’re doing a decent job at making it work.
One dynamic that’s sure to exist out in the wild that I find myself extremely curious about is the couple where one person leaves the church, the person that remains in church presses for a divorce, the couple divorces, and sometime later the person that remained in the church decides, “You know what, I want to leave the church too.” What happens to the couple? Do they reconcile? Is it damage done? Assuming the divorce was solely over church participation. My guess is that in those types of scenarios there are many other factors that lead to a divorce and church participation was the straw that broke the camels back or an easier line to draw in the sand for a situation that’s much more complex.
I have the same curiosity about the couple that divorces where the person leaving the church was the one pressing for divorce and the person they divorce later leaves the church.
“The other one said that if her husband left the Church, she would leave him.”
I wonder how accurate we are when describing what we’d do in hypothetical situations. Like if your friend were truly faced with a situation where her husband left the church. Would she really pursue divorce or was her response to the question more about telegraphing the depths of her loyalty to the church to her peers? Telegraphing the depths of loyalty to the church is a big part of church culture. She could have been communicating how strong her testimony was and not communicating what she’d actually do if faced with that reality.
I’m in a mixed faith marriage (husband left the church officially about 5-6 yrs ago and we have been married now for 26 yrs. Temple marriage, both of us served missions, he was very orthodox prior to his faith transition, so he had a lot of personal baggage to unpack before he even discussed his doubts with me (which was about 10 yrs ago.) Honestly, one of his big fears about officially having his name removed from church records was that I would divorce him simply for that reason. Which kind of astounded me because we’ve been through things in our marriage that people do get divorced over and we worked through those things and yet he thought religion might be my limit. I’m glad we’ve worked through this, too. It’s been hard, and one of the hard things was me recognizing that I could believe according to my own compass, not because of tradition or family obligation. So I’m definitely now a nuanced member who is labeled less-active. And my husband gets the blame from ward and family members for leading me astray. Sundays are different at our house, for sure, but I think we act with more integrity and thoughtfulness each day of the week generally, so I’m not so bothered by what others think of my Sunday observances (which in Mormonism translates to overall righteousness, right?). So clearly, religion isn’t a dealbreaker for us. Interestingly, couples I know who have divorced when one spouse left the church have also had plenty of other issues, so which of those was the dealbreaker, if there was just one? I also know couples who have stayed together because of the church when there is clearly no love or respect for each other, including abuse, and they’d probably be much happier and better people if they divorced, but because of temple sealings, think it’s better to stay together unhappily (and live the life that leads to.) Dealbreakers are both simple and complex, because relationships worth having are also both simple and complex.
“Ward friend” … not a real friend, just a ward friend. Move across town, you’d never see them again. I like the term.
“Marriages are almost always really bad at communication.” That’s because there’s a man involved. I wonder what communication is like in a woman-woman marriage.
I don’t have a deal-breaker. It seems ironic that the Church can’t stop talking about how important marriage is and how divorce is bad in almost all cases, yet so many members pick up the idea that a spouse leaving the Church is a reason to end the marriage. There is a disconnect there. I suspect the LDS claim that marriage is so important actually has an asterisk as follows: “… but the Church is always more important.”
The stats from the discussion board seem to reasonably line up with what I have seen. I do wonder if the stats differ based on if the wife or the husband is the one to leave the Church. Most of the people I know who have left the Church are men, and their spouses reactions vary (some stay married, quite a few demand divorces). The 2 times I know where the wife took the lead in leaving the Church, both husbands left with them. As far as I can tell, one of the husbands seemed quite happy to be done with Church, the other was quite hesitant to leave, and I assume would probably start going again if his spouse were to suddenly die ( I do wonder if age plays a role in this, the first couple are in their late 20s, while the other couple is in their 50s).
My wife was the only active member of her immediate family as her parents died young and her siblings left in their teenage years (though one side of extended family is very Mormon; the other side is never Mormon). And one of my siblings left when I was still in elementary school. So we had experience with family successfully navigating relationships with different beliefs. I think that made a huge difference in us quickly choosing each other rather than the institution for that small window when one of us was out and the other wasn’t there yet.
My high school friend recently left and her husband sought a divorce. She did agree there were other issues at play but she still found it interesting that he just wasn’t interested in being married to someone who was no longer Mormon. She attends community of Christ.
I agree with Fred VII that hypotheticals and reality are probably different. To wit, there were many lines the church crossed in the last several years that I thought would cause me to leave earlier than I did. Moving intangible goalposts isn’t that hard if it keeps the status quo.
I think things aren’t quite so binary sometimes. I’m mostly PIMO. I believe, some days, that there is Something, but it’s almost certainly not what I was taught from Nursery on up. And yet more Sundays than not, there I am. It’s what I do. My temple recommend expired last month, but if I allowed for a very liberal interpretation of the questions, I suppose I could renew in good faith. I believe in the Restoration /Joseph Smith was a prophet in the same way I believe that Mohammed was a prophet or Deborah was. I pay tithing; lately not always to the CoJCoLDS Inc, etc. I don’t feel the need to get into the details (ever, about anything) with the bishopric or stake presidency.
My spouse believes more or less the same things I do (or don’t), but after COVID found the social dynamic plus the tone at church (mind-numbing mixed with self-righteous insecurity) too much. So more Sundays than not, he’s at home. He hasn’t renewed his TR for a few years now.
We both feel it’s important to listen to our kids and honor what they want to do (within reason). One frequently comes with me; one frequently stays home.
From the outside, with one of us mostly in the pews and the other mostly not, you could argue we are mixed faith. But are we really? I don’t think I feel that way. We had more conflicts about faith when we were both trying (and failing) to be TBM.
I think the point about hypothetical deal breakers in a relationship is really valid. It’s unlikely that people will really do what they say they will do. Maybe they will be mad or have a fight, but in the end they might not go all the way, and I think it’s even harder to divorce the longer the relationship is, plus the more entanglements there are (children, finances, housing). Add to that the idea of starting over with someone new, after you’ve broken in the spouse you have, and it’s a big old no thanks for a lot, I bet, unless they are fooling themselves into thinking there are a bunch of what they are seeking just waiting right around the corner. Not bloody likely.
I also have said elsewhere (and should have said in the post) that IMO ALL marriages are mixed faith marriages, whether they know it or not. (Just as I’ve observed that EVERY Mormon is a Cafeteria Mormon–whether they admit to themselves that they cherry pick or not.) No two people believe the exact same things in the same way to the same degree, and no two people have the same life experiences to evaluate those beliefs against. It’s just not humanly possible. Humans are full of subjectivity.
As Margie points out, I imagine there are many relationships in which one is the “admitted” non- or nuanced believer, and the other is the “secret” non- or nuanced believer. Not everyone wants to sort these things out in the open. Even when we do, our reasons are mostly BS anyway. We don’t really know why we believe or don’t believe things. We just do. I have as little patience for those who claim to believe based on “evidence” as I do for those who claim to disbelieve based on “evidence.” People just tell themselves they are being logical (and therefore see themselves as superior), but it’s all just self-serving narrative. Their reasons are how they explain themselves to themselves and others. They are just a story.
In my situation, my husband is not active in the church community (including ward Christmas parties), hasn’t attended in years, does not have church friends and considers himself “an active member [with social anxiety and chronic health issues that prevent attendence] with an active testimony”.
A) It caused a lot of confusion for me because while I was “exiting” because he “wasn’t staying” and “he wasn’t leaving”. I eventually made peace with my confusion about the ongoing situation – mostly by internalizing that what mattered more to me/was more valuable to me was making my choices without using his choices as a reference guide.
B) Normalizing the fact that I was in “a mixed faith marriage” and on some levels always had been actually accidently eroded church authority in my mind – because if church activity was so important, and mixed faith marriages happened so often and for a lot of complicated reasons – why didn’t the church teachings prepare me for “a mixed faith marriage” and it’s related “complexity”.
I am out, well still counted as a member but I will never attend again. We have been married 52 years, so I think I can say the marriage survived my disbelief. My husband is still believing and active.
In my experience, the religion difference is a last straw in an already failing marriage. One key thing that is lost in a bad marriage is the respect that the partner is doing their best. When one or both start feeling contempt for the other, that contempt quickly turns into feeling the spouse who is leaving is choosing evil, or with the spouse who is staying that they are brainwashed and stupid. Both parties have to trust their spouse to be a decent human being. My husband only kinda understands my reasons for leaving, and I only kinda understand how he can find good in a homophobic, racist, and sexist, religion that has all kinds of problems with its historical claims. But I have to trust him to know some of the problems, and still see good worth staying for. And he has to trust me enough to know that my reasons are not the stupid reasons the church gives as to why people leave, but are honest and good and real reasons. It takes trust because there usually can’t be the kind of understanding we really want.
I’m mixed faith but making it work. I attend sacrament meeting and support my wife raising the kids in the church to some degree. It isn’t always easy.
For heaven’s sake, don’t introduce the false standard of outward religiosity or churchiness into a marriage relationship. Marriage is greater than that. Love and celebrate your spouse.
Just a thought: Why would we describe a person as “less active” if they are spending time strengthening their relationship with their “not active” or “non-member” spouse instead of attending every possible church meeting or event? Isn’t building and maintaining a healthy marital relationship a primary consideration in LDS teachings? We readily excuse older couples disappearing for periods as they make the rounds supporting extended families. Why not give similar consideration for those in mixed faith marriages?
Sometimes we don’t support those who need it and support those who don’t. I think it is because we only want to support the “worthy”.
My wife knows my faith is wavering and possibly non-existent and suspected it a few years before I told her. I have not attended the temple in 3.5 years and I continue to frame my lack of activity as “boundary setting.” Most likely, some hard discussions have not yet happened for us but I have shared here before that as empty-nesters, we are building a lot of other beautiful things together.
In a non-Mormon setting, what are the stats for people getting married who already have some degree of sexual experience? What is the average age for getting married? How do both questions compare to the LDS population? Should mission presidents (and Dallin H Oaks) encourage marriage so soon? Does the spirit of Satan dwell in the parking lot of your local Dairy Queen or 7-11?
I can’t figure out my husband. No temple recommend for about a decade now. Taught seminary last year. Now a YM advisor or whatever you call that. Hates ward social activities. BYU grad that hates BYU fans. Never has family scripture study, FHE, or family prayer except for blessing dinner. Has never given the kids a blessing except for the formal newborn blessing. I see him reading scriptures on his tablet sometimes. He gets horribly offended at any questioning of LDS doctrine or teachings, or at a suggestion we take a Sunday off church to stay home (travel is totally fine). He confuses me.
I’m in that PIMO category. I hold a calling but on my terms. I support some of the RS activities. I’m honest about my unbelief in the places where LDS differs from generic Christianity. No garments, no TR. I sit in the lobby during 2nd hour. I attend for the net positive to my family. Personally, I don’t know if I can “leave the church alone”. It’s a lot of my culture. I like having a church, and my husband wouldn’t consider another one, so this is the one I’ve got.
Hot Southern mess, he sounds like most Mormon men I know. The “normal” isn’t what is talked about in church. The real normal is more men who do the visible to the ward and standard things, like blessing the food, but don’t hold family prayer, bless their kids for every thing that happens in their life, and don’t hold family scripture study. Individual study is easy and often established as a habit as children or used for lesson prep or just because there is a question they are looking up. Holding a temple recommend is often neglected because nobody really likes the temple and as long as one wears their garments, the visible “righteous markers” are met. Normal Mormon men may pay tithing and go to tithing settlement, or may not. And most Mormon men hate ward socials which often have a boring “priesthood purpose” and haven’t been fun or really social for years. And holding a calling is public, so it makes the to do list, where temple attendance isn’t really public. Going to your own ward is visible, but going as a visitor to another ward is not, so skip it. So, don’t worry about him, he is normal for believing Mormon men.
My husband was exactly like that, and only started regular temple attendance when I went inactive. I think it was sort of his reaction to become more religious to see if he could fix me. But now that I am inactive and he has had time to see it is permanent, he is going to church maybe half the time and has stopped temple attendance.
The men who do all the extras are usually the kind who tell everybody about it and are doing it in hopes of leadership positions.
Hot Southern mess,
Church is not for real men. It is for men who seek power over others. Your husband is likely deeply spiritual and committed to God. The best men are in the foyer. And is FHE still a thing?
Most men get excluded from the hierarchy. I guess my feminist friends would point out this is one of the downsides of patriarchy. Most men suffer.
P.S. some sports fans are nuts.
Thank you, Anna and Old Man. I appreciate your perspective and kind words.
Old Man: I really appreciate your perspective on this as well. I would not have put it the same way, but this is one of the themes in my mission memoir. The elders who were called into leadership were either corrupted by that process or were the ones who were already corrupt. They were kind of the worst of the worst. The elders I befriended were the ones who didn’t generally get called into leadership positions, and that’s held true (mostly) throughout my life. It’s a chicken & egg question which comes first, but it’s a good rule of thumb that the best people are usually *not* the ones who get “promoted” in the Church, at least not beyond something like Sunday School Pres or EQ Pres (before the merge).
I heard of a marriage in which both spouses remained active out of fear of disappointing the other, and after they passed it was revealed that both wanted to leave the entire time.
My husband and I are in a mixed faith marriage and in our 70s. We both were raised in convert families. I’ve been deconstructing my belief for well over 20 years but it’s definitely come more to the forefront in the past 5-10 years. We have a very solid marriage and we’re able to discuss my issues – mostly respectfully – though sometimes I can get a bit worked up! I’d probably be described as PIMO because I do attend church with my husband, I attend some RS things, and I serve as a FH consultant. Neither of us tend to stay for second hour of church, easy for us to do as my husband has some medical issues. I’m pretty sure my current temple recommend will be my last because my conscience will no longer allow me to fudge on the questions. My husband actually asked me if we could attend the temple on our recent anniversary. We hadn’t gone to a session in over two years. I said yes, if it made him happy, but there was nothing in the ceremony that pulled me back in or gave me thoughts to reconsider. I’ve delved too far and deep in to church history that I don’t foresee see any way back. I’ve valued my past church experience, I still like attending Sacrament Meeting and singing the songs and having a community but I also overwhelmingly see the harm to LGBTQ+ members. I was actually asked to give a talk last Sunday. I almost said an outright NO and blurted to the counselor “but I’m only a cultural Mormon”. After talking to him further I agreed to do it. I think I gave a well received address on inclusion, though avoided saying anything that could be perceived as controversial. I received a few hugs, some from folk I barely know and several kind messages, one from the counselor.
My husband will occasionally ask me to bless the food and the last time he did I gave him a resounding ‘no’ so he hasn’t asked me since 😂, but I know our marriage is strong and will survive.
Indeed, the same-faith marriage is good. But I also see some mixed-faith marriages at around me are just fine, at least until I write this comment. They have grandchildren and happy.