A lot has happened over the last three years that overshadows the normal Mormon blogging topics, events and developments that just demand to be addressed in a blog. There was Covid-19 in early 2020 and Trump’s bungled response to it. There was the mess that was the Election of 2020, Trump’s coup-like response to losing that election, and the subsequent Big Lie that still troubles the body politic. And now there is Putin’s War in Ukraine, the consequences of which, like Covid and Trump, are going to be with us for years and years. There have been many posts on all of these events and topics here at W&T and on other LDS blogs. So here’s the issue: If Real World Events have been so potent and so intrusive as to force there way into so many posts of what is otherwise a blog focused primarily on LDS issues, has the same thing happened in the life of our readers and of most other Mormons? Has our Time of Troubles decade, the 2020s, produced such jarring events that, by comparison, the day-to-day Church stuff and the usual set of repeated gospel discussions in church and in classes seem just not that important anymore?
The Church has tried to sidestep most of this noise. I’d give the Church a B+ for its overall Covid response. It waited a few weeks before taking action (so it’s not an A) but then it took the almost unimaginable steps of (1) bringing most overseas missionaries back to their home countries, and (2) cancelling in-person church for units all over the world. Since then, the leadership has just sort of muddled through, eventually cautiously reopening temples and visitors centers and in-person church services. At this point, March of 2022, we’re at a “let’s pretend everything is back to normal” phase, at least until the next variant emerges and sweeps across the globe.
I’d give the Church a C- for its overall Trump response. The fact that members of the Church in the United States are overwhelmingly Republican obviously complicated the Church’s response, but the leadership still performed poorly. First, they delayed the standard congratulatory letter or news release to the winning candidate Joe Biden for weeks and weeks, strengthening (in the minds of Republican-leaning members) the idea that Trump didn’t really lose and there was something wrong with the US election. It also gave credence to the idea that most LDS leaders were quietly Trump supporters. Then the LDS leadership was largely silent as most of those LDS Republicans got sucked into believing Trump’s Big Lie and running with it. And here we are in March of 2022 with a highly politicized Church (the leadership never really countered the malicious influence of Ezra Taft Benson, and is now paying for it) and highly politicized cadre of Trump followers within the Church. It’s not much of an overstatement to say that politics has ruined the Church. The political disease is not fatal, but it is definitely afflicting the Church at all levels.
How about Putin’s War in Ukraine? I’d give the Church an A- for its early response. This is just the kind of humanitarian crisis that the Church is equipped to respond to. Of course, the Church doesn’t have a military response and tries to play the peace card. That’s what all churches do. It’s governments and armies that handle the military, diplomatic, and political side of the war. Churches and a variety of other organizations attempt to provide humanitarian assistance to the millions of refugees who have taken flight and civilians trapped in war zones.
What else is coming at us as we slog through this troubled decade? More of the same, for one. More Covid variants, particularly those that evade current vaccines. More US elections with Trump doing his best to throw a wrench in the election process for the November 2022 election and a hundred million Americans seeming to hang on his every word. And whatever happens in Russia and Europe in coming weeks as Russia goes into economic meltdown, Ukraine becomes a pile of rubble, and a desperate Mr. Putin fights to retain power. What else could happen? A big volcanic eruption disrupts global weather? India and Pakistan start their own little war? China decides the time is right to recapture Taiwan?
So back to the issue raised in the first paragraph: Have all of these Real World Events changed the way average Church members go about their church life, their day-to-day LDS activities? Has Trumpish politics in church affected your attendance or your interest in associating with other Mormons? Has Covid and the suspension of in-person church for many months, or possibly anti-vax rhetoric from some LDS folks in your area, affected your attendance or your interest in associating with other Mormons? Has the spectre of an expanded Ukraine War (Moldova? Poland? Romania? Estonia and Lithuania?) and non-zero possibility of nuclear strikes affected your Mormon life? Anyone considered upgrading their 72-hour kit to a 2-month kit? I have bought batteries and extra water, keep a lot of cash around, and keep my gas tanks full, but I’m sure there are LDS preppers out there who are sitting on barrels of wheat, surrounded by canned goods and generators and ammo, gleefully anticipating Armageddon.
Let’s hope Armageddon remains a vague concept pushed off to the distant future. Let’s hope the Killer Variant never emerges. Let’s hope Trump fades into political obscurity. But we’re not there yet and we have to get through life one day at a time. We get through church one week at a time. How life going? How’s church going?
Wheat & Tares 
I’m no fan of Trump or the Trump wing of the Republican party. Indeed I’m horrified by the prospect of another Trump nomination in 2024. But Biden has been the president of the United States for 14 months. And the Democrats control both the House and the Senate. So if you’re going to bring politics into the discussion why aren’t we discussing Biden, AOC, Bernie Sanders, and whoever else is controlling the agenda in Washington. Again, I’m no fan of Trump but he’s a sideshow at this point unless he gets another nomination. I’m also horrified by a 2nd Biden term.
The Church has its own problems independent of anything happening in Washington. Nobody in DC can save it from the Gospel Topic Essays, Mormon Stories, and the CES Letter.
Yes there are many people that don’t like Trump, but he did much more for the United States than most presidents and he actually did was he promised. As far as the 2020 election, if you even studied the realities you would know that it was indeed a stolen election. Just look at these 25 Questions if you have any doubts. https://emeralddb3.substack.com/p/25-big-questions-that-democrats-cant?token=eyJ1c2VyX2lkIjoxNTQ5MzgyMCwicG9zdF9pZCI6NDE4ODA0NjEsIl8iOiJrcnBibSIsImlhdCI6MTY0NzIxOTg5NiwiZXhwIjoxNjQ3MjIzNDk2LCJpc3MiOiJwdWItMjYzMDYzIiwic3ViIjoicG9zdC1yZWFjdGlvbiJ9.t780NzTwsGnUg9yEnIIlzLcBeLc5PdTsluEaEnqdSZs&s=r
I would say that the last few years have made me feel like the Church does very little to help me or my family get through hard times or really general life problems overall, and in some ways makes them worse. The first pandemic General Conference was a great example of that and the rest have not improved much. “Do family history” is not a solution, nor is “stay on the covenant path.” The promise of a prophet is to guide us through stuff like this and I’m not seeing it.
I think many have come to the same realization.
Funny story, a family member of mine who is very progressive just got a phone call from a QAnon friend because the friend is dreading conference for the first time ever (having had faith shattered by the Church’s pro-vaccination, pro-mask position) and needed to talk to someone who had also dreaded conference (albeit for very different reasons). So this is hitting both sides.
Regarding Trump, I’ve had to unfollow a few people on Facebook because their comments were not just debating policy, but actually denigrating and name calling others who didn’t agree with them. I see them at church and I have to constantly remind myself of all the good things I know they have done and continue to do in serving others in the ward. It is still hard but I don’t want Trump to win by me not being friends with people I formerly was.
The biggest change for me came with home church. Sundays turned into a true day of rest and worship. I DREADED going back to in person because I realized how much I LOVE not spending my Sabbath constantly on the go. Because I’m the organist I ended up going back as soon as any kind of church was being held, even Zoom with only Bishopric and speakers present. I’ve eased back into in person church mode because I’m also in RS Pres. Still have not been to SS. I have a priesthood holder in my home so I can have the sacrament. And I have a husband and two kids still at home so I’m not alone. But I think for me, COVID made me realize how much I enjoy not going to church.
Personally, I feel like a stranger in my ward now. As one of a small minority that wore a mask to church, even after the First Presidency email, I don’t feel particularly safe there, especially when I look at the vaccination statistics for my area (Utah County). Yes, we’re in a lull right now, but cases and deaths are on the rise again in Europe (the U.S. usually follows Europe by a few weeks) and are at catastrophic levels in Hong Kong. The Republican mantra of personal freedom that trumps everything (yes, pun intended) is a selfish and myopic worldview. As someone who worries about the rampant inequality in our society, the overt racism among Latter-day Saints, the disregard for global warming, and the overwhelming Republican belief in nonexistent election fraud, I mourn for my church. Too many members are getting bad information, and all the Church has done is to hide a new paragraph in the Handbook. I keep hoping for a bold response from a Church leader in general conference, or even in a press release, but leadership seems too content to let disinformation cause divisions among us. So, yeah, I feel that the Church is not much of a home anymore. BTW, perfect summary of the effect of ETB on Mormonism.
I personally think all modern US Presidents are idiots. But I’d rather have a nice idiot than a jerk idiot, so I guess that makes me pro-Biden and anti-Trump. YMMV. That’s all I’ve got to say about that.
Pro-Trump rhetoric at Church doesn’t bother me. I’ve dealt with similar sentiments since my 20’s when I switched parties. I’ve gotten used to tuning it out. The only time I even get frustrated about someone’s political affiliation is when they won’t shut up about it. The church’s relationship with the COVID pandemic really makes my blood boil. The outright selfishness I saw from the Saints has forever changed my view of the church and its members. But on the bright side of that, the pandemic taught me that the entire membership is heterodox so at least I’m not alone anymore.
There has been no mention of Ukraine at church and that makes me sad. Instead we just plug along talking about Abraham Isaac and Jacob. The church gets an F on its relevancy in the 21st century. The “pray for Ukraine” sentiment at Church rings hollow to me. We can and should do more. I attend Church now about 50% of the time, mostly to show support for some of my friends in their callings. Otherwise I probably wouldn’t even go as I don’t even have a calling. I just find there are so many better things to do with my time.
When neighbors say “we missed you today” or “you missed a good meeting today” or “where were you today?” I usually respond asking them what they learned at church that day they can share with me. The answer is crickets. I’m missing nothing.
@josh h, I could be wrong but I interpreted this post as asking about how various things in politics and world events have impacted our Church experience. Since I don’t know that Biden, AOC, or Bernie Sanders have had any impact on anyone’s Church experience, I am guessing that’s why they didn’t get mentioned. (For me it’s business as usual with people thinking democrats are lame, which is the story of my Church life since forever.)
Trump and Trumpism on the other hand seems to have had quite an impact.
@Chadwick I hate it when people say “I haven’t seen you in ages” or “we missed you” or whatever – I am totally going to use your response strategy!
Elisa: good point. I get a little irritated when W&T gets political and it’s almost always pro-D. But since LDS are mostly pro-R, it stands to reason that focussing on Trump’s influence is more relevant than any particular Dem. Again, you raise a good point.
Hi Dave B. You probably won’t like my comments & maybe I’m all by myself in my position on this blog but here goes…… I have found great value over the past several months reading the posts on Wheat & Tares. I’m a TBM but find that MANY of the topics & comments resonate with me & bring great value to my life. I’m in a position of serving within the church & find that MUCH of what I read here benefits my life as well as my service to my family, my employment, my community & the church. The only thing that I wanted to point out AND I MAY BE ALL BY MY LONESOME ON THIS BLOG SAYING THIS, is that some of us, or at least me, who shares so many of the thoughts & concerns expressed here are actually Trump leaning supporters. As an attorney, I could certainly express my views succinctly on why, but I don’t feel this is the proper venue. I’m not even asking that you change anything you say. I just want you to know that you actually have one fellow reader who finds great value in Wheat & Tares who, at the same time, is a Trump supporter. Thanks again for your current & past comments. I find that they, overall, bring Great value to my life.
@josh h, I get that, and I personally am grateful that we have some diversity in the comments – which is why I wanted to explain that I didn’t read this post as being pro-Democrat but simply rooted in the narrower issue of politics & our church experience.
The LDS mantra “In the World but not OF the World” has certainly been shot to hell, as cachemagic, not to mention Captain Moroni and 70% of the LDS adult population demonstrate. Loving a stripper-groping, insurrection-instigating, filthy-mouthed, Putin-worshipping casino magnate, in spite of everything taught literally for decades at Church, appears to be a cataclysmic wardrobe malfunction.
I sometimes get the feeling when reading people’s experiences of “the church” that they are actually describing their local community culture (likely in Utah) more than the church per se. It can be hard to separate those when they are almost one and the same in a place like Utah Valley. But as for relevance to the war in Ukraine, our stake (northeastern US) had collected dozens of pallets of supplies for Ukraine within a week. As for Covid, our ward has been happily wearing masks and following the church’s and local public health directions. As for lessons and gospel discussions, no they are not all that relevant to things that currently matter in people’s lives since they’re based on curriculum, so that one needs work. Some of you would benefit from a move away from Utah, and so would your experience with the church.
@your food allergy, I’ve lived all over. I agree there are some unique challenges in Utah but my particular comment actually had nothing to do with Utah. And I know some other folks who have commented aren’t in Utah—I think it’s more of the entire mountain west and west coast. Utah, Idaho, California (other than the Bay Area), Arizona, Vegas – I don’t think it’s that different.
I also think some of “Utah culture” is the fault of the Church. Like, how wouldn’t it be? I always hear people talking about cultural vs religious stuff to defend and distance the Church from horrible Utah, but the cultural problems in Utah have, in my view, a whole lot to do with our prosperity gospel, emphasis on hustling for our worth, persecution complex paranoia and us vs them mentality, ETB conservatism, church-sponsored homophobia, sexism, racism, etc.
I wonder if you’ve got it backward and northeast culture is protecting your ward from church culture. (I don’t know the answer. Literally just “wondering.”). Prob needs its own post!
We aren’t attending or participating and haven’t been since about 6 weeks before COVID which was great timing for us, we were ready for a long break. My kids aren’t missing anything from their point of view (or mine when I see the list of activities planned). I have thoroughly enjoyed having a second Saturday. Seriously, the weekends are so much better now. We have detached from the standard rhetoric and lame Sunday material to the point where we cannot fathom attending again without serious boredom or being contrarian. It simply has no draw for us at this point. Maybe in a few months or years? I know it was only about three hours (including getting ready and coming home/changing clothes) but something about that time span literally spoiled the day for us. But we are actively discussing spiritual matters, values, philosophies, current events, goals, etc. with our family in a much more meaningful way without Church oversight or unnecessary influence. Giving our kids critical thinking space and room for discussion.
Having said that, we occasionally watched the Zoom sacrament over the past two years, and I can honestly say that nothing has changed my congregation’s Sunday meetings. Topics are still flat and boring for me. For others, they probably like the feeling of stability and consistency, a respite from the world. To each their own.
Our congregation has no idea how to handle our family. And I am not blaming them, nor mad, but it is kind of humorous. Not that we are complaining, but over this time we have had no visits or attempts from our ministering folks until recently, no contact from any Bishopric member, only recently did my wife get contact from RS with a weird birthday card from the RS Pres. who feigned personal care and suggestion to hang out despite never talking to us or having a relationship prior, and the EQP Counselor reached out to me to inform of my new ministering assignment (his family!) and of his new assignment (my family!) and a heads up that they will be doing EQP interviews for ministering quarterly. I texted back that we basically aren’t fully involved right now but let me know if he needed anything.
THEN, last week we had a knock at the door on Saturday evening around 7pm. We were watching a movie as a family and not in the mood to be interrupted. Looking out my window it was the missionaries. I mean, that feels a bit . . . annoying . . . is the best word I can describe. They are sending the missionaries to my house? Sigh. So stupid, and pathetic really.
I loved home-church, and haven’t felt…nourished since returning to in person church. I don’t know if my experience is unique to my area since they are building a temple next to our church building that will be completed in a year- but for the last year, every Sunday has been about “Preparing for the Temple” (with suggestions like, for date night, come sit in the parking lot and look at the construction site and ponder on the blessings of the temple.” I was excited when the theme of our last stake conference was “Come unto Christ”, but was disappointed when not one speaker talked about Christ. All of the talks were about the temple and missionary work. It has really felt like I attend the “Church of the Church of Latter Day Saints.” After hanging out with some Baptist friends and talking about church, I told my spouse, “I wish we attended a church that was focused on Christ.” I am really dreading what is going to happen as the temple gets completed. I miss talking about and learning about Jesus at church.
Elisa, yes I would agree that the the less we are managed from SLC around here the better we do, as far as my experience is concerned. And I would also agree that the church has created much of the culture in the mountain west. But the issues you describe with things like prosperity gospel etc can just as easily be modeled as culturally derived religious interpretation as the reverse. It’s hard to tease the two out. I just think it’s important to note that there are a lot of Mormons who don’t have the Trumptastic experience that so many here describe.
I give the church a lower grade for its Trump response. Its first mistake with regard to Trump: allowing the Tabernacle Choir to sing at his inauguration. Granted, the choir had sung at presidential inaugurations in the past and claimed that it was not partisan. But the singing was always a slight political gesture in the sense that it was the acceptance of a reward from presidents-elect for Utah’s vote. It never should have been. And it was even worse when Trump invited them. The church should have told the choir at that point that they decided to no longer participate in any inaugurations, period, and have declined the offer on the grounds of the church being an international, apolitical organization. That performance was a soft signal to more LDS people that Trump was normal and the first step towards a gradual warming to Trump over the next 4 years. Bear in the mind that Utah was tepid towards Trump in 2016, with a chunk of the electorate voting for Evan McMullin in the election out of concern for Trump’s immoral character.
When news first broke that the choir would sing at the inauguration, I announced on Facebook that I would be boycotting the choir because of that gesture. I continue to boycott them to this day and I let people know that. In that post, I said that I would boycott the choir because Trump didn’t reflect Mormons’ mores and values. I had an ex-Mormon friend reply in disagreement saying that Trump was the Mormons’ kind of guy. I objected to his reply then; however, I now admit that my ex-Mormon friend was right and I was wrong. Trump did reflect a good number of Mormon members’ values, as evidenced by their celebratory attitudes towards him in 2020. I just hadn’t realized it then. But the warming happened because the church didn’t decide to move away from soft political gestures. By and by the Mormon church became the church of Trump, with a 2018 poll showing that Mormons had the highest support of Trump of any religious group: https://www.deseret.com/2018/1/12/20638216/mormons-give-trump-highest-support-of-any-religious-group-in-poll. It is a tragedy. And I lay the blame at the feet of the leaders. Trump wasn’t normal then. He didn’t become normal ever. His presidency was the worst in US history. And the predominant Mormon attitude that continues on with fond memory of Trump and hope that he will win in 2024 is a blight on the Mormon community.
My situation is similar to Counselor’s. I quit attending Church in January 2019 and by the general Church shift to online in March 2020, I was done with trying to be Churchy on Sundays. My main church interaction anymore is this blog and a couple other places I lurk. I’ve liked developing my own ways to think about what’s happening in the world. I don’t have to see events through the gospel lens, or puzzle about why the Church leaders are worried about things that I don’t think are worth worrying about. I’ve settled that they’re people with different priorities than mine, and I don’t need to change to fit their priorities.
I always thought that I would be less hopeful and more pessimistic without Church, but it hasn’t turned out like that.
Real World Events have had less impact on my church mood than Real My Life Events have, but I do get the sense that the foundation has shifted – I think more due to everyone’s Covid absence than to politics. I hear people talking/worrying about who hasn’t come back.
(Weren’t we fasting for Ukraine the first Sunday of this month? I heard nothing about it that day, not even in the prayers.)
I attended the LDS church every week for more than 50 years until the pandemic struck. And then in the early weeks of pandemic when our stake president shut down our ward’s attempt to do a spiritual service (not sacrament meeting) at the behest of the area authority, so we didn’t have services for more than 4 months, it gave me the chance to do something I wanted to do for a long time, and that was to (virtually) attend the services of other denominations during Lent.
I have to say, those were so much more Christ-centered and so much more spiritually filling that after more than 50 years of being a Mormon, it was enough to finally end my allegiance. I haven’t taken my name off the records, but the LDS church just completely faded in its relevance. Of course the tone deaf response to George Floyd’s murder made things worse. It also mattered that my son came out publicly as transgender during the pandemic as well, but the ties that bind had been so severely loosened by Trump, the racism lingering in the church, the Covid response, and the realization that standard Mormon Christianity really was too weak sauce to be worth the aggravation, that it was a no brainer to end any meaningful affiliation. I do tune into zoom sacrament every once in a while just to see if someone I know is talking. And I have started to tune into Dialogue Sunday Study again now that its off the D&C which I just couldn’t muster any energy for. I thought Thomas Wayment’s lecture on Joseph last week was really thought provoking and meaningful. If real LDS church was like that, I would still attend, but that would also be a LGBTQ friendly church, so its almost like an alternative universe.
So the covid pandemic pretty much marked the end of my LDS-centric life.
I am glad I came upon Wheat and Tares a few years ago and several of your posts have really touched me and made me think introspectively.
I am a progressive Mormon, who attends church but has questions, while being conservative politically. The only hard posts for me to read here are the rants against Trump as I am a Trump supporter. I do try to look at things from all sides, however, and see where everyone is coming from.
Sometimes it’s hard not to feel like I don’t belong here because of my conservative political views but I hope I am still welcome. I bet, were we given the opportunity to talk face to face, we’d find we have more in common than I’m led to believe as I read these posts. Thanks again for your thought provoking posts.
When I was a teenager, I heard a lot of rhetoric at church that went something like this:
Your generation is a Chosen Generation. The world is only going to get darker and more calamitous as the Second Coming approaches (and it will happen within your lifetime). You are Generals fighting a Mighty Battle for the souls of God’s children. Every time you go out the door in the morning, you go armed with the Armor of God against the Enemy and his shafts in the whirlwind.
I’d be lying if I said that didn’t have some effect on my ego or on my view of the world and my place in it. And I suspect it probably reflected something about my leaders’ view of themselves as well: We’re chosen and awesome and special and the rest of the world sucks. Their battles are par for the course, just the way you’d expect a fallen world full of heathens to be. Your personal battles are what really matter to God. Your day to day struggles with temptation and personal worthiness—that’s the real drama right there.
Also this is probably much bigger than a Mormonism problem. The Bible is chock full of stories that make it seem like God only cares about the chosen few while he casually drowns, burns, or otherwise devastates entire populations of human beings.
That might explain some of the lack of discussion at church about real-world current events. And I don’t think everyone at church thinks that way—a whole lotta members are less prone to othering “the world” than I used to be. But I do think our perceived self-importance (as the One True Church) actually lessens our compassion for everyone not in the club, to a degree.
@Kirkstall – You’ve perfectly explained my own experience growing up in the church and much of my years as a young adult in the church. In recent years I have had some painful, soul-searching times of having to confront that bias I was taught. My spouse comes from an oppressed nation where the people can barely get by, inflation is crushing and has been for years, and where the country’s leaders are appalling in their condemnation of people who aren’t in line with who they say God is. Since getting married, I have had a more personal front-row seat to atrocities that were so distanced from my privileged, “chosen” Mountain West upbringing. It was easy to brush off the empathy I should have had for people who live daily with harrowing insecurity because those news headlines were just the “signs of the times”. But now those people are my in-laws and loved ones. Now I interact daily with people who have friends who are in such desperate circumstances that they try to sell their children in order to survive themselves. It shouldn’t have taken me so many years and such a personal connection to recognize that privileged bias I had and the need to love and care for those who are downtrodden. If I had really been trying to live a Christ-like life it should have been one of my highest priorities to find tangible ways to lift the burdens of the sick and afflicted and destitute.
Last fall during the tragic aftermath of US troops pulling out of Afghanistan I was talking with my mother about how sad and solemn my spouse and I felt about it all. And of course it wasn’t the only horrifying thing at the time or especially since then that the world has witnessed. My parents are both life-long, pioneer-stock, fully-dedicated members of the church. I look up to them in so many ways and until recent months identified myself similarly. But my mom’s response, which was actually a very typical one for her and many in the church, was a further wake-up call for me and to me demonstrates why as members of the church we often tend to brush over true tragedy and mentally or emotionally distance ourselves from it when it isn’t personally affecting us. She said something to the effect of how God will make it right in the afterlife and how we needed to look to eternity for hope and that these are the indicators of the “last days”. I’ve heard those things all my life from all the pulpits in our church. But those are not reassurances, they are hollow phrases we tell ourselves as we sit back in gratitude that we are the chosen ones who don’t have to suffer those particular tragedies. Those phrases do nothing to alleviate true pain and suffering and are even more useless than offering our “thoughts and prayers” for those children of God who are in devastating situations.
To answer a question from the OP: Have all of these Real World Events changed the way average Church members go about their church life, their day-to-day LDS activities?
As someone who used to consider themselves an “average” church member, the answer is a resounding YES for me. I can never again sit back and see world and personal tragedy of others and simply say to myself that it is a sign of the times and another thing to pray for. My entire approach to worship and living a good life has completely shifted. I no longer feel that my money and resources are best spent in official church capacities. Now more than ever I turn to Christ himself as a guide to lift others, and not to those who say they are his messengers. Now I set aside my tithing money and instead of sending it to Salt Lake City I put it directly into the hands of the mothers who aren’t able to feed their children in oppressed nations. Now I spend my time in service of causes that directly bless the most needy instead of cleaning the church building again (although I may go clean a church building of another denomination that is housing Ukrainian refugees since our church buildings aren’t generally used in that capacity). Now I pray for inspiration to use my resources to help people instead of simply praying for those people to find comfort, safety, and peace. Now instead of spending my Saturday to travel to and attend the temple I spend it babysitting and making meals for a friend who is having medical complications after giving birth and who doesn’t have any of her own family or support system nearby.
Charla, obviously you’re welcome to come here and post your views. Inasmuch as the views you express are pro-Trump or conservative (whatever “conservative” is supposed to mean now), you could probably expect them to be challenged by one of several commenters, including me, and will probably have your comment downvoted quite a bit. But that’s really the worst of it. Most participants and commenters seem to be anti-Trump and politically liberal. It’s just the way it is, and a reason why I come here. Will some commenters insult your character or resort to ad hominems? Doubtful. It’s a pretty tame bunch. In fact, this forum/blog is one of the few places where I have been able to have reasoned discussions with libertarians and conservatives. Given, I do argue hard, can sometimes keep replying and not giving in in my replies, stick to my guns, and passionately drive home liberal arguments. Also, if I think ideas are stupid, sometimes I will call them stupid (I avoid calling people stupid, just ideas). But don’t let that be a deterrent to you making remarks on here about politics. Welcome to the discussion.
John W, Wow, I appreciate you taking the time to write me that reply! What you said makes so much sense. I am always afraid to comment in forums like these because I don’t like getting thumbs down as I often feel it is a personal attack. What you said makes me feel so much better. It is totally okay for us to disagree on ideas and give thumbs down by doing so but we don’t need to take those personally. Also, it is okay to disagree with what someone says while still respecting the person. I just have to be aware that most people here might not see eye-to-eye with me on Trump and that’s okay. You definitely made me feel more like commenting in the future instead of just quietly observing. Thank you for that! I am excited to join in the discussion when I can!
@Charla, not sure how much you’ve paid attention to comments during your visits but I think it really is generally the case that although people might strongly disagree with ideas, they do not do personal attacks. I hope you’ll keep commenting.
Thanks for the comments, everyone. Nice discussion.
Just a quick word on comments. We welcome comments from across the spectrum and with a variety of viewpoints and responses to any particular topic. It’s nicer if they are thoughtful and productive comments, making some sort of contribution to the discussion, rather than just venting or ranting or whatever. But hey — it’s a blog, and the comment section is here for the commenters. Charla, you and everyone else are welcome.
I appreciate (or try to) a thoughtful comment of conservative views, because I am still trying to figure out how in the Sam Hill voters support that man. I live in AZ, neither fully conservative or fully liberal, but I have a strong dislike for that one elected official, and I’ll be more careful and humble when I engage on a political point. It’s not healthy to live in the echo chamber.
I, too, appreciate the engagement I get with conservatives here. It is not that I appreciate conservative ideas per se. In fact, if I had a magic wand, I would make all conservative ideas disappear and all people who believe them stop believing them and subscribe to the spectrum of liberal ideas that are current throughout the US, Europe, and other parts of the world. Ideologies and ideas that were once popular in the past have died down, I don’t see why it couldn’t be the same for conservative ideas (well, conservativism in its current state in the US, there will always be conservatism with a lower-case “c” in the sense of there being people who seek to conserve traditions that are set in place and fight against changes to the status quo). Yet, conservatism, whether I like it or not, is simply a very popular set of ideas at this point in the US. Liberals need to engage them and the people who hold these ideas.
Wondering if Ukraine will be mentioned at General Conference. Now that I’m older I realize the Church has very little to do with influence on world events. Benson/Monson/Nelson behind the Iron Curtain are nice stories but I’m sure other churches (and McDonald’s) were there lobbying as well. Still wondering about two prophets to be slain in Jerusalem – see our heading to Revelation chapter 11. My final comment here in my rambling thoughts is…what should a 97 year old global faith leader do about all of this? Is there any more late-night revelatory unleashing that could be a balm in times of troubles?
First it’s hard to give the church a grade. Is it “headquarters” or the membership? In that light I’d agree with the grades given for the headquarters definition of church. For the membership part, I’d say Covid was a C-, Trump a D, and the Ukrainian Response a B. All you have to do is read the comments in the Deseret News to see that the membership is just not getting it at the same level as the headquarters. Also while the Church as a formal institution has been losing it’s more “liberal” members for a long time, it is now losing many conservatives. The efforts by the headquarters to ride the fence so as to not offend either side has shown how lukewarm responses don’t work for either side of an issue.
I am perhaps the exception here – I feel I’ve been greatly blessed and had so many great experiences with church as we have all muddled together through these great challenges. Home church was amazing. I’ve never felt the spirit more strongly as I did in those early days. As we started reattending in person, I was called as YW president as a relatively new person in the ward. I was surprised to see how much having a big calling suddenly put into great relief how, frankly, lazy I had become in my ministering to my neighbors during home church. This Definitely been one of the most challenging assignments I’ve ever had in the church, many tears shed, many relationships built, my heart softened as I’ve waded in to try and support so many teens struggling with post-COVID mental health issues. I’ve been the one making all the awkward visits people are complaining about here, and they are HARD but I am doing it because I CARE! Yes I am not great at them but by golly I want to know how you’re doing and be there for you if I can.
Our wards covid response has been as good as it could possibly be, I would say. Bishop has tried super hard and there’s been a huge emphasis on unity beyond political differences (and numerous diverse sacrament meeting speakers on such.) I voted for Biden, many/most of my ward probably voted for Trump but we aren’t letting it put a wedge in our ward family.
As far as international events, my YW have done a half dozen projects this school year alone to support Afghan refugees, my ward has been supportive and the RS has done quite a few as well. I personally have felt a deep spiritual impression to put my social media keyboard-warrior activism to better use, so I have dropped off social media and now spend one day a week volunteering as an Afghan placement program housing team lead. Such a huge blessing for me and my family! So grateful for the scriptures and conference talks that challenged me to take that step. Woke up this morning to see that soon we will have more refugees to care for. I cant wait to meet them.
For what it’s worth, I live in Orem UT. There have been plenty of challenges, but I have personally seen overflowing blessings as our family has stepped up to fulfill the Savior’s invitation to follow him and invest in the community around us.
I refuse to waste my time talking about tRump. But I did see the church’s reaction to the pandemic a little different. I think they quickly and skillfully adapted to a global pandemic. Come Follow Me was inspired beforehand. The church leadership timely shut down meetinghouses and painfully closed temples – suspending all in-person church meetings the day after the pandemic was declared. (not waiting a “few weeks after”). They were kept closed for months, only gradually reopening while listening to public health experts about what was safe. And General Conference was closed to the public and he called for two global fasts to take place. While avoiding all political overtones, the First Presidency, in an official statement, admonished all members of The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints to use face masks in public meetings and get vaccinated not only for themselves, but to protect others. They said,
“To limit exposure to these viruses, we urge the use of face masks in public meetings whenever social distancing is not possible. To provide personal protection from such severe infections, we urge individuals to be vaccinated. Available vaccines have proven to be both safe and effective… finally we have prayed often for this literal godsend.” The church responded – but unfortunately, most members did not. The concerning aspect going forward might be when they come out with more official warnings will we see the same result because of political leanings.