Continuuing with the theme of Black History Month, I thought I’d reflect on changes in the past 30 years or so. In 1978, the LDS Church announced the lifting of priesthood restrictions on black men. In 1985, the RLDS Church (now known as the Community of Christ) announced the lifting of priesthood restrictions on women.
Not a single black apostle has been called in the LDS Church. (Our idea of diversity is to call a white German apostle.). The RLDS Church currently has 4 female apostles (1/3 of the quorum), a black apostle, a Polynesian apostle (who is female), and a Hispanic apostle to go along with a female in the First Presidency.
If God is no respecter of persons, why is there still a de facto restriction on black, Hispanic, and Polynesian apostles? Is God really sexist and racist?
Wheat & Tares 
MH, there is no de facto restriction. Look at the quorums of the 70, and you’ll see a vast diversity of ethic types and nationalities. (No women though!)
I attribute the lack of minority apostles to two factors:
1) Most men chosen as apostles, especially in the last 30 years, are in their early 60s. (Ziff posted the data somewhere…) Because of this, racial diversity among the 12 reflects the racial diversity of the Church 50-60 years ago, rather than the present.
2) Most of the men chosen as apostles have 40 years or more of Church leadership. Bishops, then stake presidents, them mission presidents, then 70s (or other similar high-visibility position like university president), then apostle. For a newly ordained black man in 1978, how much experience does he need before he is appointed bishop? 5 years? Until a black returned missionary can be found? And that only the beginning of the lengthy track.
The diversity among the 70 gives me hope that change is coming. But given the rate of change in the LDS church, it doesn’t surprise me that none have yet risen to apostle. After all, it took 50 years after the civil rights act for a black man to be elected president of the U.S.
The stats that the other clark cites are true; but I think that’s what MH is asking. There is no requirement that men be chosen from that age range or to have that same church leadership background. A Sunday School teacher should be able to be called to the 12. Unfortunately, that’s not how we roll.
At the same pace as the country (50 years) we would expect to have a black prophet in ten years. Ha! We have a slower pace than a democracy, unfortunately.
U.S. Presidents only need to be 35 years old. Prophets are more in the 80-90 range. So you’ll want to tack on another 40 years or so on to that estimate.
Incestous nepotismis probably a huge factor. It’s All In The Family.
More here.
Clark, you might want to check the definition of de facto “being such in effect though not formally recognized”. That’s the definition I meant when I used the word. I was comparing the CoC apostles with our apostles, so discussion the quorums of Seventy is misdirection and doesn’t answer my point.
“Because of this, racial diversity among the 12 reflects the racial diversity of the Church 50-60 years ago, rather than the present.”
I always thought prophets were supposed to lead us, rather than trail behind…..
As for decades of leadership beinga requirement, well, let’s look at Elder Gary J. Coleman. According to LDS.org, Elder Coleman is “A convert to the Church, Elder Coleman was baptized in 1962.” He had been “serving in the Second Quorum of the Seventy since June of 1992” and “was called to serve as a member of the First Quorum of the Seventy of The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints in April of 1997.
Let’s do the math. Convert to GA in 30 years! It’s been almost 38 years, and we have 1 black person in the Q70, and still no apostles!
Elder Uchtdorf is a “Czechoslovakian-born child of a convert family.” Surely there are other black members of the church with similar convert stories!!!!
I wish our prophets would lead, not trail.
Or are our leaders “leading from behind” like Obama?
MH- All of the current apostles were ordained to the priesthood before 1978. When we have a quorum of all-white apostles whose ordination to the priesthood occurred AFTER 1978, then we can talk racism. Until then, it’s a gerentocracy, which Pres. Hinckley himself called “wonderful”.
One would thing that in a church led by inspiration, we’d be ahead of the curve, but because they’re all old duffers, and any one of them can veto any proposal (unanimity is required) the Church lags behind culture.
I think the difference between the apostles of the CoC and the apostles of the LDS Church is due to church culture. In the first, there is a culture of inclusion and diversity. In the latter, there is a culture of tradition and stability.
I don’t think that the LDS leaders have made a conscious choice to only choose caucasion men to be apostles, I just think that because it is a life-long calling, they choose people that they feel most comfortable with, who they have been able to observe for decades, who they have trained and prepared for the calling, and who they have no fear of disloyalty from. Diversity does not appear to be a value in that calculus, and without explicitly attempting to create a more diverse leadership, they are naturally going to be drawn to people who think, act, and look like themselves.
Speaking of Nepotism
My TBM dad said people were called to high positions in the church by inspiration, sometimes in desperation, and quite often by relation.
https://cdn.shopify.com/s/files/1/0535/6917/products/nepotismdemotivator.jpeg?v=1403276074
Clark, I think that the RLDS church shows us that there are different ways to do things. All of the female apostles there were ordained AFTER the 1985 revelation. Your reasoning doesn’t necessarily follow. Other organizations can claim inspiration from God and aren’t so blatantly sexist and racist.
The Q70 is essentially a racist organization with a token black guy, just like the Augusta Golf Club that wouldn’t admit a black guy until Tiger Woods. To say that Elder Sitate makes the Q70 “black and white” is to call the EXCEPTION the rule. Sitate is still the exception, and Q70 is not diverse but a bunch of white guys with a token black guy.
“the Church lags behind culture.”
So why have a prophet if he lags so far behind? What good is a bunch of racist, sexist old guys? Instead of breaking down racism, they promote it! They prevent the church from becoming and looking the Christlike organization they claim to represent, but look much more like a group Donald Trump would be proud of. I can’t fathom that God is pleased that the Q70 has 1 black guy in 38 years, and no black guys in the Q12. How can you call this godly inspiration? Is God a racist? Does God look on the color of skin, rather than upon the heart (or as MLK said, “the content of their character”)? Because these guys clearly look on the color of the skin or we would have more than 1 black GA in the 4 presiding quorums in 38 years. (FP, Q12, 1Q70, 2Q70. Note the other Q70s are not GA’s.) If 4 decades of a revelation aren’t enough, I don’t know what is.
Not to disagree with the general point, but we *have* had more than one black general authority.
Helvicio Martins served from 1990-1995 in the second Quorum of Seventy. Can anyone name a third black ga? Furthermore can anyone explain why almost two decades passed between Martins and Sitati? There were no worthy black men available?
And Martins held the priesthood for just 12 years when called as a GA! It’s amazing how fast God worked in that case!
Scripturally, God IS racist and sexist, or more accurately, tribal and hierarchal. I imagine that some of the brethren might even prefer to exercise a bit more affirmative action in this regard, but are kept from doing so for some reason. Whether this is because of God’s will, or because of cultural entrenchment, who knows. I think that cultural entrenchment IS God’s will in a sense, because an all-powerful God could EASILY fix this problem and make His will known. But He doesn’t, so ultimately, all of this is His fault.
I agree, the church has a long ways to go in racial relations. Clearly, apostles are being picked who the other brethren are familiar with and are comfortable with. Are there people of color who could be chosen? Of course.
I don’t mean to be a numbers-cruncher, but consider this. The RLDS (COC) church worldwide membership has been stagnant for at least 40 YEARS. The changes in their doctrine/practices haven’t resulted in an increase in attendance, interest, investigators, missionary work, baptisms, etc. One would expect these changes, if inspired, would bring great blessings, not divisiveness. Let’s not go down the same road of “change for change’s sake.”
Nate, I find your comments blasphemous and offensive.
“Can anyone name a third black ga?” Elder Dube.
I do think it is incredible how diverse the CofChrist leadership is, particularly compared to the near monolithic LDS leadership.
I think you’re being a bit hard on Nate though MH. That is very much the God the OT describes, and goodness knows LDS attitudes veer more OT than NT (as Howard never tires of pointing out). I don’t like the OT God myself, but I can see where Nate is coming from.
I had longed for some out of the box thinking when 3 apostles were called. If Elders Oaks and Russell were called without previous general authority experience, why couldn’t President Monson receive inspiration to do the same and demonstrate inclusiveness? In spite of this disappointment, there is some level of criticism that could be leveled at President Monson’s predecessors. Elder Helvecio Martins was called to be a GA by Ezra Taft Benson in 1990. Elder Joseph Sitati was called by Thomas S. Monson in 2009. Elder Edward Dube also by Thomas S. Monson in 2013. What happened to those twenty years between 1990 and 2009? And Elder Martins was released in 1995, so there were 14 years with no GAs of African descent. At least President Monson has called two more GAs that provide representation of African ancestry (which doesn’t seem like much, but it did end 14 years of having none). Had his two predecessors been spurred on by President Benson’s calling of Elder Martins, then at least there would have been more candidates within the quorum of the 70 that may have risen to the prayer list for apostolic consideration.
I’m sorry. Elder Dube is not a member of the First or Second Quorum of 70 and is not listed on the photo lineup at LDS.org of General Authorities. See https://www.lds.org/church/news/chart-of-general-authorities-available-for-download?lang=eng
Members of Third Quorum and beyond are not General Authorities, and are not photographed for the semi-annual Ensign photo lineup. They are Area Authorities.
So Martins and Sitati are it in 38 years, or their photos would be in the Ensign.
As for Nate, I am frankly disgusted that he would say “God IS racist and sexist…” No God is not. Man is racist and sexist, and to apply these false labels is blasphemy. If God is good, then He cannot be racist and sexist. His followers certainly can be and are.
Prophets of the Old Testament spoke with limited understanding and knowledge. Our understanding of God is more complete. We need to quit attributing false sins to God. Racism and Sexism are man-made sins, and if God is perfect, we shouldn’t falsely attribute sins to God. God is not sinful. To claim so is to blaspheme God, and I do not use those words lightly. Nate is blasphemous and offensive when he describes God. I do not want to worship Nate’s sexist and racist God and would prefer to go to Hell if God is sexist and racist.
I think theists have to seriously consider that when the scriptures say “God’s ways are not man’s ways,” that doesn’t just necessarily apply to the past. All of our categories about what is “good” or “right” or “virtuous” could be baseless.
I mean, basically, you’re assuming that your 21st century view of morality is what God actually is about, and that everyone who disagrees (either because they are from past cultures or from cultures more conservative or more liberal than your understand) must be “attributing false sins to God” or introducing their own flaws into the system.
But realistically, we just don’t have a lot of scriptural evidence of God as being laissez faire and fully accepting. No, God is particular, exclusive, and, quite frankly, a bit petty.
As someone put it in another comment (maybe it was Jeff G?), some folks criticize certain ideas of God as being tyrannical. But it is only out of a particularly modern (and human) viewpoint — rather than an eternal truth — that we even view tyranny as a bad thing.
One would expect female priesthood to be in favor of tolerance/diversity. It’s been brought to my attention that a female priesthood holder withdrew her membership from the CofC over the homosexual policies (marriages, ordinations, etc. I wonder how often this may occur?
MH, take a closer look at that chart you linked to: 1st Quorum of the 70, second row, fourth from the left, Edward Dube, sustained by the church to the 1st Quorum of the 70 in April 2013. I suppose the response will be “So what? Instead of only two there have been only three.”
“second row, fourth from the left, Edward Dube, sustained by the church to the 1st Quorum of the 70 in April 2013.”
My source was Wikipedia, so of course it can’t be wrong. 🙂
John, I stand corrected. (I hadn’t heard of Elder Dube, and I haven’t heard him speak in Conference.) Ok, there’s 3 in 38 years. Wow our apostles are sure diverse by letting 3 black men in the Q70 in 38 years!!! Next thing you know they’ll start calling only black men…..
Affirmative Action it is!
Andrew, I suppose you make a good point, but Thomas S. Monson said in 1970, “Where performance is measured, performance improves. Where performance is measured and reported, the rate of improvement accelerates.” President Thomas S. Monson, “Thou Art a Teacher Come From God,” October 1970.
I’m just doing the measuring and hoping for some accelerated improvement. If we compare this to molasses, it’s been pretty dismal in the past 38 years, and I’d call this a snail’s pace. The CoC, on the other hand, seems to show some tremendous diversity by comparison. It is not molasses. I guess for a gerontocracy, this is the pace of change we can expect: molasses.
markag: “One would expect female priesthood to be in favor of tolerance/diversity.”
Why would you/one expect that? Is there something inherent in the gender or it it societal?
MH “I haven’t heard him speak in Conference”
Here’s your chance: https://www.lds.org/general-conference/2013/10/look-ahead-and-believe?lang=eng
Not a bad talk.
According to the timeline in this article https://www.lds.org/ensign/2014/03/zimbabwe-land-of-beauty-people-of-faith?lang=eng
Elder Dube was previously a CES employee; hired as country director in 1994, setting up seminary and institute throughout Zimbabwe, and in 2009 he served as a mission president in Zimbabwe, so I imagine there’s been plenty of time over which to observe him, train him, work with him…
“I hadn’t heard of Elder Dube, and I haven’t heard him speak in Conference.”
Well, why not? Please elaborate how are missing these things that you care about. His talk is on the church website. If you want to hear a Zimbabwean General Authority preach to the LDS church in its General Conference, then go read his preaching, or listen or watch.
“Please elaborate how are missing these things that you care about. ”
Due to my job, I frequently have to travel during General Conference weekend. (Those happen to be busy weekends for my employer) so I often don’t listen to them live. Sometimes I get lucky and they are on the airplane, but not very often. But I’m glad you heard it and knew about it and corrected me for my errant ways. I’d love to have you do a guest post on this wonderful speech I missed if you’re willing. Just email me at mormon heretic at gmail dot com and I’ll be happy to post it as part of Black History Month. I’d be happy to read your review. But something tells me you won’t put forth any effort. Prove me wrong.
Now, I hope you don’t think that 3 black general authorities makes the Q70 appear like an integrated organization, to say nothing or our white bread apostles…. Was that your point, or was it to lambast me for not listening while I was working during Conference 3 years ago.
Thank you, MH for this post! I found it interesting that many of the comments to your post did not even attempt to answer your question, so I will humbly attempt an answer.
Perhaps, God is continuing to give divine counsel to church leaders about whom He/She wants to lead the church, and perhaps that is just what is happening in Independence and the CofC! Simple, really.
The revelations are going to the other Prophet, and the other church.