I’ve lived in several places in the United States, and one conclusion I have is that Stake baptisms in Utah are awful. In the “mission field”, family members of the prospective 8 year old members give a couple of talks on baptism and the gift of the Holy Ghost. Family members often pick hymns. Often the baptisms are held in the ward building because the buildings are often located so far apart. If there happen to be 2 children being baptized, usually one talk is given by one family, and another talk given by the other family. It is a wonderful, intimate, personal affair for the young child and their families.
However, in places with a high concentration of young children (such as Utah County), there is a Stake Baptism coordinator. The entire stake’s worth of children (sometimes as high as several dozen) sit in the chapel. In some of the worst cases, a stranger from the stake gives a talk on baptism. Then people from one ward will get up, walk to the font, while the rest of the stake waits in the chapel with literally nothing to do. Then another ward takes their turn, then a third ward. (My stake currently has 12 wards full of young people and they have a morning session and an afternoon session.) It is not personalized in any way. Of course, families of 8 year olds often have other small children. Do you know how hard it is to keep children quiet in the chapel when literally nothing is going on? It’s awful. I have no idea who thinks this is a good idea. (I suppose it does save water though.) Many Utah County buildings do not have a font. The font is only located in the Stake Center.
It makes me want to move. I know not every stake is like this–I’ve attended some baptisms in southern Utah County (for relatives) that were much more intimate and personal, but my stake sucks (and I know it isn’t just my stake.) Does anybody have any idea why they have herd baptisms in Utah?
Wheat & Tares 
In our ward, a member of the bishopric is supposed to be present at every baptism. We were asked to consolidate the numbers so they didn’t have every weekend eaten up with baptisms.
Our stake in Lehi staggers them on the one day – all kids in the ward at the same time, but the talks and such are by ward. So no stake gatherings.
I know when I was baptized several decades ago, it was the whole stake (but also a small town, so you knew everyone getting dunked.)
Save water. That is what they told me.
Maybe sprinkling is next. Drip system, I don’t know.
I had an impersonal stake “herd” baptism 50 years ago.
Where I live now, outside of UT, baptisms are intimate affairs planned by the family.
I’m glad I’ve spent much of my adult life outside of UT. It has been a broadening and educational experience.
“Save water” my eye. Someone from the stake that has to be there is simply making it easier for themselves. Each ward could be given 45 minutes to have the talks and the baptisms, move to another room for the confirmations. This would eliminate that ridiculous scenario of sitting idle in the chapel for hours.
I’m sure there are other potential solutions. And even some that would entail filling the font multiple times–heaven forbid!
I live in a part of Las Vegas that is about as densely populated with Mormons as Utah County. We also have herd baptisms. The church stopped building fonts in all the chapels, so only the stake centers have them. Therefore you must have baptism at the stake center. Our stake at least sings hymns during the waiting period in the chapel. It at least helps to try and maintain some level of spirit. And it does conserve water. The one good thing is that it is less likely our family will be responsible for the “Baptism” and “Holy Ghost” talks.
They tried to bring that in here, and it lasted about 3 months. After that it was ignored and individual family baptisms returned, and it was not mentioned again.
*sigh*
How sad. I have pioneer heritage going back to the beginning of Mormonism and we have deep family baptism traditions which can’t be honored with herd baptisms. We need intimate family-led gatherings. For example, in our new ward, one if the rules of the herd baptism is that all kids (boys and girls) wear the unisex jumpsuits. They don’t want to take time with dresses which should slowly enter the water in order to avoid floating float up immodestly. Well, that’s all well and good, but we have a beautiful hand-stitched multi-generational white baptism dress. The child also picks the hymns, gives a talk in baptism (coached by primary teachers), and we also have special 100+ year old recipes for the refreshments. (As you can see, these are female traditions highlighting female participation in this special ordinance. I find it intetesting that our patriarchal system is efficiently eliminating female, not male, actions in the herd baptism. I think these changes are more deliberate than coincidental, but even if you disagree with me on that, in the very least you’d have to agree that it shows a lack of appreciation and a low estimation of value for mother’s contributions and a lack of sensitivity for family traditions.
I understand families can request an outdoor baptism by the bishop (in good weather), if your bishop agrees and you can get PH witnesses.
What happens these days with herd confirmations? Are they still in sacrament meeting the next day????
Part of me feels like the impersonal herd baptism is a good thing because then you won’t be expecting anything personal when you go to get sealed.
I was at a baptism for a nephew a couple months ago in Riverton UT. They had a good system. Our family was given a large classroom with a piano to do our talks and songs. Then when the time for the actual baptism came, we all walked over to the font room, watched it, then walked back for the wrap-up. We got to have the good family time, but because we were only in the font area for a short time, we weren’t wasting time from any other families. It worked well.
This is something we ran into as well. Our oldest was baptized in an intimate family ceremony outside of Utah (no-one else in the ward was getting baptized that day, so it was all family members doing talks, musical numbers, witnesses, and so forth). Each ward had it’s own time slot for baptismal services. The only people in attendance were us, grandparents, another family, and a few members from the ward.
Then we moved to Utah and our middle child was baptized in a herd situation. Luckily only one other child was getting baptized in the stake that day, so we didn’t have to wait very long in the silent chapel. The youth in the different wards take turns hosting the services (music, talks, etc.). So we got two teenagers who looked bored out of their minds giving the talks. Once you got back to the font it became a more intimate affair (probably because my daughter was the only one from our ward. If there’d been more kids it wouldn’t have felt as personal.). My husband did the baptism. I was invited to give a testimony. The witnesses were two young priests from the hosting ward. Overall it was a very strange experience.
When I was eight (many, many years ago) living in Texas in a large ward, it was a herd baptism. Nothing special. Been living in Arizona (unfortunately) and the church has herd baptisms here. My kids had herd baptisms and were not impressed. I hate it.
I don’t remember much of my own baptism. It was a week day evening and one other girl in our ward who had her birthday the same day as mine was also baptised. A lot of ward members attended. It was the 70s and ward members seemed to have the time to attend all these different things at church back then. My parents were converts, so only immediate family attended. I have no idea who spoke, although I gave a 2 1/2 minute talk about my baptism in Sunday School the following Sunday, and still have card on which I wrote my very brief talk, it seems I didn’t rate it much of a spiritual experience going on what I wrote about it.
I recall attending a lot of baptisms in the 70s as a child, and it did feel like the whole ward turned out for them then. To fill the time waiting for people to get dried and dressed, we often got to watch church films such as ‘The first vision’ or ‘Windows of heaven’ and as a child I’d look forward to the baptisms for the films. In the absence of a film they’d invite members to fill the time by bearing testimonies or singing hymns.
My childrens’ baptisms were very much small, cosy family affairs, attended mainly by family members, from what is now a large extended family, who also served as witnesses. We kept talks short, and had no musical items, so it wasn’t a big production, and returned to our home for the get-together and celebratory meal afterwards.
These herd baptisms sound badly planned and implemented. It does seem to me holding smaller separate services with a timed slot at the font itself would work best. They could be done a lot better.
I believe Anglican and RC churches hold services for confirmation in which more than one person is confirmed, but I believe these services are highly structured and ritualistic, so I would hope there isn’t a sense of the herd about them.
I just love the term “herd baptisms.” It makes me think of herd immunity. If not enough of the kids in the herd get baptized, Satan will get them all!
We have fairly intimate herd baptisms. Usually 2-4 kids from the stake. Opening song, prayer, baptism talk, musical number then each ward goes to font room. Font room takes small amount of time.
When each ward finishes in font room, they go to primary room or RS room as a ward to do second half. Ward part is HG talk and confirmation, bishops speaks, closing song & prayer. 45 minutes. Done. I attend because of my calling. I like it.
Considering the importance of baptism in a person’s life, the last thing it should be is impersonal. We lived in 3 states, one of which was Utah, as our 6 children grew up. I found the baptisms in which the families of the candidates chose the music and the speakers were far more inspiring and memorable than the Stake directed baptisms.
The most memorable, however, was a convert baptism in our current ward last Fall. The candidate was physically impaired and unable to negotiate the steps into our ward font. Our Bishop arranged for the use of his nonmember neighbors’ swimming pool, and the baptism was held there. Now that’s personalized!
I feel exactly the same – they are the worst thing ever devised. At our most recent my mom (visiting from out of state) snickered out loud at the stake representatives remarks, “once the ceremony is completed please vacate the room quickly to allow the next group to enter.”
One other thing I remember about my baptism and confirmation is being disappointed that I didn’t get that
“warm,” “wonderful'” feeling that I was taught would accompany that event.
It was the same disappointment when I attended the temple the first time.
That is not to say that I’ve not had what I would describe as spiritual experiences in my lifetime.
But strangely, they haven’t occurred in a church setting.
#10 Brent – I forgot that I attended that type of baptism for my twin nephews not too long ago (also in Riverton). It was a great compromise and allowed a lot of family involvement.
For my daughter’s herd-like baptism, the involvement of the stake youth in hosting duties was seen as a missionary-prep, testimony-building exercise. One wardmember felt the involvement of young men serving as witnesses as particularly genius. I understand the desire to involve the youth, but still…
I can’t wait until I’m 8… A southern account of the hypocrisy of the “herd baptism” practice.
Tick tock. T i c k t o c k. T i c k t o c k. As you begin to feel drowsy, let us go back to a couple of years before the year 2000. To a small ward in the Deep South. Only a few youth, less than 10 total. All baptisms of 8 year old children and new converts of every age are individually planned with loving care and each family or missionary set does it as they wish. Some legacy families have elaborate traditions and others are very simple.
A new policy excreted by the cross roaches of the west announced these herd baptisms. This made no sense far away since during most years, only I or 2 youth were baptized all year long. But coincidently it was a banner year for young girls with 9 of them to be baptized in about 6 months. These baptisms now all had to be planned and executed by the bishop and the ward missionary committee; not the families and definitely not the women. They had to be performed at a designated hour on the last Saturday of the month, no exceptions. They had to be at the Stake Center no exceptions. Except we had no Stake Center and the building where the stake offices were stabled did not have a font. So one exception was made, after deep contemplation and prayer; to use the font in the local ward house.
A local multi-generational but quite inactive family was first. They planned an elaborate ceremony with distant relatives flying in from across the country and a few non-member relatives included. They thought maybe it was time to get back to being more active in the church. When the father was ambushed by the bishop with the policy that he would have to move the baptism date (requiring his relatives to pay additional fees on airline tickets) he was furious. He stomped out of the church shouting: “it will be cold day in h*** before I set foot in this d*** church building again.” His nearly 8 year old daughter came trailing along weeping and sobbing. So far he has kept his prophecy. His daughter was baptized about a year later by a grandfather on terms dictated entirely by her mother.
Second was a “same-ten” family and they fully complied. But the baptism date fell on the same date as the Ward Halloween party. At least 90% of those who happened to be at water’s edge were in costumes eating candy and less than 10% of them heard the talks. Very small children were confused. White cloths –costumes? This was the first use of the new ward-provided white jump suit. It was obviously immodest, but only when wet. However, everyone pretended it didn’t happen, until later. (Girls talk). Otherwise the baptism went off without a hitch. Then the rowdy deacons decided that they wanted to go swimming and dunked one of their friends which ignited a water fight which made a huge mess and included some swearing.
The next was the youngest child of several siblings in another “same-ten” family. They forgot to show up. The bishop and a couple of selected speakers on the missionary committee waited patiently. Phone calls to them went unanswered. Excuses can be made for them; such as the tradition of planning the baptism helped an over-extended family with several callings better remember to show up. The 8 year old girl remembered. Later she whined to her friends that my family really doesn’t love me, they don’t even notice me. This was worse than forgetting a birthday. The next month they almost forgot again, they rushed over to the church at the last minute and were only about 15 minutes late.
The author wanted no part of this rolling fiasco. A family Christmas trip to visit relatives in Utah was scheduled. The spunky daughter, nearing the age of 8, was excited by the daring prophetic plan of driving then hiking far into the Uintah mountains and chopping the ice out of a small pond and baptizing her there under circumstances she could never forget. She, having lived in the South too long had no comprehension or memory of seriously cold weather.
The bishop would not give permission for her baptism in another location to dodge the new policy. But how was he going to argue with an 8 year old, that her baptism in a frozen pond at sub-zero temperatures in the sacred land of Zion/Utah didn’t count? Who would all her friends, the other young girls believe?
Maybe a mother (I’m not supposed to know) might have talked to a brother who was in a bishopric and an alternate baptism was gently suggested by him to be held at the Stake Center. An elderly grandmother suffering from dementia would not be able to make it to a frozen pond and it was her first grandchild, and sadly it turned out to be the only one she would be able to witness. Except the date for the stake herd baptism was inconvenient for travel plans.
A separate baptism, a few days before Christmas, planned by the mother and weakly opposed by the author was allowed for only this one spunky little girl from far away. This private individual baptism was held at a stake center, the exact site of herd baptisms as crowded as anywhere throughout the stakes of Zion. The lack of permission from the southern bishop at the home ward was ultimately ignored.
The only glitch was that the brother in the bishopric forgot (forgot my frozen a**, he knew exactly what he was doing) to turn the warm water faucet on while filling the font. A picture was taken of the spunky, newly baptized 8 year old standing out in knee-deep snow in a pretty white dress without a coat and long wet hair, shivering miserably. Cousins and brothers were not allowed to throw snow on her until later when she changed out of the dress and then could easily defend herself. The polar bear plunge in the Uintahs was postponed to another year yet in the future, although some boy cousins would profit from it immensely.
After that the practice of herd baptisms seems to have been ignored in our ward. Subsequent siblings of the author were afforded the exact same privilege in Utah as the oldest spunky daughter. Except the author went with his stalwart brother early the morning of the baptism, to help him remember to turn on both warm and cold water faucets.
I spent 8 years in a Springville (Utah Cty.) stake with herd baptisms. There, the start times are staggered by ward (1st ward, 9am; 2nd ward, 9:30, etc.) so it creates the feel of an intimate ward baptism, with the advantages of a single stake baptism day.
ADVANTAGES:
*less filling the font (the handbook says someone must stay in the building the entire time the font is full, about 3 hrs)
*less time required for the primary president, primary teacher, and bishopric.
*less hassle for finding talks, prayer, music, etc.
* easier to get ward embers to show up.
Then I moved to North Idaho, with a small ward and personalized family baptisms. I baptized my son last summer in the shallow river that flows behind a members home. The ward sat reverently on the river bank . My dad accompanied the songs on his guitar. So memorable and spiritual. If I could post a picture, I would. Then we had a ward social in the member’s backyard. Awesome.
Bottom line: I understand why they have herd baptisms and the “no exceptions” policy. At the same time,if the baptisms were more Spirit-filled and personable at age 8, maybe we wouldn’t lose them at age 14.
The solution to pollution is dilution. (US EPA 1970)
As many individuals with their own unique microbial gardens inhabiting various body orifices immerse themselves in the warm waters of a baptismal font, the bacterial counts explode. Most healthy children have overactive immune systems and suffer no harm. In fact they could be baptized by immersion in a trough of liquid pig s*** and probably survive.
But sooner or later somebody is going to get sick. Or worse, somebody is going to make a bunch of other children sick. Oh, the embarrassment of a public health investigation. It probably has already happened; we all know how transparent the methods of solving problems are in this church. The most compassionate act at a herd baptism from a practical point of view might be to pour a jug of clorox into the font, perhaps between every hundred children or so.
When my father, born in 1926, was young all 8 siblings in the family shared the same bath water heated on a wood burning stove. The girls went first and it was oldest to youngest. Being the youngest son he was always last. Sill complains about it. We don’t generally share bath water with siblings any more except maybe when they are very small.
Perhaps we could modernize the practice to the spiritual bath of baptism. With top-notch physicians serving as the most senior and now most junior members of the Q12, one might expect this to not be a difficult revelation to receive. I do believe they went to medical school long after the widespread teaching and acceptance of the germ theory of disease.
I feel strongly about personal family baptisms, If the family wants to arrange them. Converts can be baptized almost anywhere at any time. I have managed to figure out and arrange for not=herd baptisms here in Utah since we moved here from another state where family baptisms are the rule. I have the secret recipe if you want it!
I’d be interested in your secret recipe. Email me at mormon heretic at gmail dot com.
“It makes me want to move.”
You are just now thinking of a reason?