It seems like once or twice a year, each stake will hold a General Priesthood Meeting. It is usually on a Sunday, very early in the morning. Ours is a 6:30 AM. Why the ridiculously early hour? It seems like the leaders pick this time because who needs sleep? The rationale is that nobody has any conflicting reasons not to come–as if sleep is not a good excuse to miss the meeting. Why can’t they hold these meetings in the evenings? I’ve never seen very good attendance at this early hour. It seems that most people who go are in bishoprics, or quorum presidencies, along with a few “godly” men who come. The rest of us are in bed.
Americans are notoriously sleep-deprived. Why do our leaders discount sleep as a valuable part of our lives? Do you find anything praiseworthy about these meetings?
Wheat & Tares 
We have too many obligatory meetings period. And I think 9am is to early to start a three hour block.
Personally, I don’t see a good reason for having these meetings at all. If the Stake Presidency has vital information to give the Priesthood holders, can’t they send the High Council men to deliver the message in the Ward Priesthood meetings? They would reach more people that way.
No surprise if attendance is poor.
When we were married students at Ricks our Stake Pres decided to always schedule them during the Super Bowl. They joked about it being a “faithfulness” test ….. I think that’s what they think it’s good for. Schedule it some ungodly way and whoever shows up is on the shortlist for the bishop track. Somehow I don’t think that’s how God tests us……
Flipping 630 am? Yeah, no.
Was there nothing that you learned from the lesson that you could share rather than complaining about the earliness of the meeting?
Ooh Daniel, not sounding a lot of fun there.
I think these poor guys work so hard that some times they just can’t help dishing some of it out. But not functional. Not enough sleep means grumpy people who don’t make great partners or parents, and are more prone to accident and illness. We had a great patriarch who made it a point in all blessings to tell people to care for their bodies with adequate nourishment, exercise and rest.
And another thing. It really worries me that the thing that drops off the to do list for parents in busy families is sex with your spouse. This makes for neither happiness nor safety. A lot of marriages could be saved and the sum total of mormon happiness would be increased if we gave people time and permission to feed this part of our lives with our spouse.
Time to get real.
Our stake they are 7.30 on a Thursday evening.
hwc, yes it seems at the very top they talk about allowing time for families, and not overscheduling, but on the ground it seems to be hard for ‘middle management’ to follow through sometimes.
Ours are usually Saturday or Sunday evenings, so they’re not too bad. However, some wiseguy in Salt Lake almost always decrees a round of Minnesota stake conferences the weekend of deer opener. They tend to be sparsely attended by the natives, although the Utah imports and other young, effete, non-hunter types do show up.
I’ve lived in a lot of places. Like Hedgehog our stake priesthood meetings were always on a Thursday night. Of course that is just Alaska, Idaho, Nevada, Utah, Texas and a few other places. I’ve never heard of them being early in the morning.
Bless your heart. That sounds terrible.
Nearly every stake I’ve been in has had it in the evening. I do remember one stake I moved into that kept mentioning the stake priesthood meeting at 7:00. They just assumed everybody knew that was A.M. I would’ve shown up 12 hours late, but eventually, someone made a comment that made it apparent that it was 7 A.M. I was astounded.
Presently, my stake center is an hour away, so a 6:30 am meeting would mean getting up no later than 5 am. I don’t think that would fly.
But for that matter, a 7 pm meeting at the stake center means leaving home at 6 and getting home at 10. It takes a really good meeting to make that time commitment worthwhile. And I don’t know when you’re supposed to have dinner? 5 pm, I guess.
And don’t get me started on stake high priest’s quorum meetings…
And the other reason to have them in the evening is that we can be given a reminder when we’re at church in the morning. I’m too old and disorganized to remember a 7 am meeting that they told me about a week ago.
My stake’s general priesthood meetings are Sunday evening at 6:30pm.
My stake, in the 35 years I’ve lived in it, has never had early morning general or leadership meetings that early. They are usually on a Sunday evening around 5:00 pm or 6:00 pm. The only way early meetings make sense is if the geographical boundaries only entail a drive of a half hour or so. Individual unit leadership meetings might be early, but never on a stake level where some people have to drive almost 2 hours. It is interesting to hear of such meetings and how leaders need to constantly assess whether meeting times should be changed.
The majority of women I know list such meetings as a main reason they have no desire to be ordained.
When I was little my Parents were new and enthusiastic converts. They swiftly became leaders in the ward and were at meetings often. My 8-year-old sister babysat us younger ones, ages 2-6. We lived in the country about 20 minutes from the chapel. I think back to the things we did while they were gone and it truly is a miracle nothing terrible happened, though several minor mishaps took place for which my sister was lectured.
By the time we were teens we honestly believed Dad didn’t love us–that he only loved the church. When I married, I wanted a man who actually did put family first, but no, he was frequently gone to meeting after meeting. The rest of the time he travelled for work.
We talk a good story. But we seldom live it. Oh, and my sister left the church long ago.
Daniel Ortner, Guy Templeton made a good point in his post. Sleep is important, health is important, spending time with family is important, so too many meetings and the time of meetings is very relevant to everyone, and all you can say is that he is complaining? What’s funny is you probably think you’re so faithful and righteous but what you said was simply very rude. Give us a break.
Now, to the point of the post.
I think this is a very valid question. The church talks about eating healthy, but most activities are full of unhealthy foods.
The church talks about getting enough sleep, and taking care of our bodies, but many members seem too busy with church and other activities to even consider proper exercise and sleep. And it’s not just the adults! I went to early morning seminary throughout high school. It started at 6 am. So, obviously, I had to get up earlier than that to get ready and travel to the church. Do you know how busy this time was for me? Classes, social life, sports, etc., etc. I remember feeling a so tired until my third class of the day. My first period class, I would just fight to stay awake but I wasn’t learning or retaining anything. My life was very busy without seminary, with seminary it was just impossible. I think seminary was a net negative on those years. But if you express that idea to your parents or leaders, they would gasp!
The problem is, you can’t win an argument about something practical (like sleep) against something faithful (like doing your duty as a member – which basically consists of a list of about ten million things). There is this pressure to put aside the practical needs and accept the responsibilities of the gospel. This is why so many members say yes to every calling even if they think they can’t handle it. If you think practically, then you are not spiritual enough. “The Lord won’t ask more than you can do…” Please. This kind of thinking disgusts me. People do take on too much because they think God will bless them. Perhaps a dad who knows he needs to spend more time with his kids will accept a time consuming calling, thinking, the Lord will bless me with my family if I accept this calling. Sadly though, more time away from your kids will HURT, not help. The church asks too much. Period.
This brings up the age old issue, faithful thinking versus practical thinking.
Think of someone who has a health issue that makes fasting impossible or potentially harmful. My mission president said this was nonsense. He said refusing to fast, no matter your health issue, is simply a lack of faith. I know many of you would be shocked to hear this. But this was less than 15 years ago. I think we all know there are members who think this way. If you are asked to do something, you do it, and the Lord will take care of you. Just show faith. I think it’s hard to know when to say I am at my limit, I can’t do anymore, because it’s impossible to know when you have hit that edge. And it’s hard to say no to a calling or skip a meeting if you are trying to do your best within the gospel.
Sometimes it seems like the members who are happiest are the ones who can just not guilt themselves over everything, and feel fine skipping meetings or not fulfilling obligations. But I feel for the wonderful members who try so hard but still feel guilty over small things, because the church demands so much it is impossible not to fall short somewhere.
As long as I can recall they have been on sundays at 7. I don’t think anyone has complained about the timing, now the content….I recall one such mtg where the SP told us that “Masturbation leads to murder”, which is awful for me as I live across the street from a High School but somehow I am still here!!!!!!!!!! They haven’t gotten me yet!!!
I am old enough that I can vote with my feet if I think a meeting or church activity is too much. I cringe now, thinking back to the years we dragged tired kids, semi-sick kids and bored out of their minds kids to every. damn. meeting. all. the. time.
Horrible, horrible years. No one was more glad than I was when our last child absolutely refused to attend 6am seminary (that I was gonna have to drive him to) because he needed sleep. If I remember right, I think I gave him a hug and thanked him for releasing me from that ring of hell. He got his Eagle Scout and graduated high school just fine and is an outstanding college student with excellent boundaries. I wish I had learned that lesson when he was a baby.
FWIW – the general priesthood meeting only happens once a year, so I hardly think one can complain about a lack of sleep one day out of the year. Now, if a stake is having high council and other meetings early on Sunday mornings, that would get old. On a ward level, bishopric meetings usually start 2 1/2 hours before sacrament, and Ward Council or PEC starts about 1 1/2 hours before sacrament, so that if you are in a leadership position, it does make for a long day. Still, I would rather meet at that time than take another evening out the week.
I was once in a stake that always scheduled a stake priesthood meeting in the middle of the Superbowl. That is all I have to say about that.
“Do you find anything praiseworthy about these meetings?”
I’ve only seen one person attempt to answer this question, and I think the answer was basically “no” (unless masturbation really does lead to murder.)
In Utah, I’ve never seen a Stake Priesthood meeting that was in the evening. They’ve always been around 7 am. I don’t recall ever hearing of a stake priesthood meeting when I lived out of Utah.
One stake I was in held these meetings in the evening and they ended with root beer floats. That was praiseworthy.
Same as Rockwell above: home stake in Oregon has always done them in the evening on a Sunday with root beer floats afterwards. At least 20 years. To think that anyone would make them meet at 7am is stupid. My father was in the stake presidency for a decade and the only meeting they had that early was their weekly stake presidency at 6am since that’s when all 4 of them were available. They all were early risers up by 5am anyway. The new stake presidency is the same way. 7am? Ludicrous!
PS. the stake does root beer floats after the adult session of stake conference too. I grew up in an very enlightened area.
A year ago, after living in the Washington, D.C. stake for five years, I realized that this stake never holds stake priesthood meetings. When I asked the stake president about it, he had no idea what I was talking about, even though it is the second stake meeting in the handbook, between stake conference and stake priesthood leadership meeting. Other long-time members of the stake also had never heard of stake priesthood meeting. The last three presidents of this stake went on to serve as Area Seventies, the people who train stake leaders how it’s done, so apparently that’s how it’s done by so inclined. I miss the singing and other aspects of the gathering.
Having lived in 3 different areas of the country, I have yet to experience the early morning schedule. Ours are in the evening and boring and useless, but well attended.
#25 – John, I envy you and your fellow PH holders in your Stake. Ours not only holds meetings for just about anything, the poor bedraggled leadership is expected to attend the ‘meeting AFTER the meeting’! We might as well be plugging Amway…
#19 – Ah, “Zero Period” seminary. The poor kids are being well-trained for sleep deprivation to try to ‘loin’ something about Gospel truths in a classroom setting, and THEN at least once a week do YM/YW which runs until nine or so…and HOPE they did procrastinate their homework (being on my LAST teenager who starts high school this fall, I know better…)
That’s why I envy families in Idaho, Utah, or parts of Arizona (Gila Valley and East Valley, eg., Gilbert/Mesa/Queen Creek/Tempe) with their ‘release time’ seminary, with a building right across the street from the high school.
Our stake, which covers three states and has multiple units more than one hour away from the stake center, employs a brilliant consolidated meeting schedule:
The Handbook says a few meetings need to be held one a year, so in January the Stake President picks a Sunday evening, and announces the following schedule:
5-5:30pm-Stake priesthood leadership meeting
5:30-6:30-General leadership meeting for A&M priesthood
6:30-Ice cream social for everyone EXCEPT high priests.
6:30-7- Stake high priest quorum meeting.
Brilliant! All the designated meetings are held, but they’re all short and sweet, so all the fluff is eliminated, and the rank-and-file priesthood understands that the stake leadership understands that their time is valuable.
I agree with whoever said upthread that early morning priesthood meetings are a Utah phenomena.
I’m old and grumpy enough now that I just don’t go to meetings. I tell people flat out that I’m not going to attend, they are surprised for a moment, then realize they can’t do anything about it and don’t ask me anymore. I always do a fabulous job at whatever calling I currently have, so that makes up for it.
on a related note, my daughter recently dropped early morning seminarybecause it was literally ruining her health. When I informed her teacher, all she could say was “it’s good for kids to do hard things.” I agree when its sacrifice for a purpose. But just getting up early to prove your toughness doesn’t make any sense to me.
In our Stake they are at 7PM on Sunday evening, when you’d like to relax from a long day at Church. I have to admit, I usually like the meetings once i am there, but I would prefer, if we had to have them, that they are about business rather than the usual lesson of Home teaching, missionary work or keeping you hands out of your pants and anyone else you are not married to.
I’d rather heard about how the Stake is doing numbers-wise. though I suppose the Sister might be just as interested.
“Do you find anything praiseworthy about these meetings?”
Nothing. Just another sacrament meeting in tone and content. Maybe a bit more emphasis on the duties and responsibilities (and honors) of the priesthood.
You “get” to hear from the stake presidency, but that is also accomplished in Ward Conferences. This meeting is merely a traditional, un-examined, mindless praxis to which all we myrmidons are expected to attend. 😉 It fulfills no useful purpose–other than another meeting where we can be harangued about being righteous, and “follow[ing] the prophet.”
Worse is Stake Priesthood Leadership Meeting. For the past 15+ years in our stake there have been no “break-out” sessions after the initial plenary session of (see above). Nothing praiseworthy in them either. In my experience, most ward clerks (and finance, and membership assistants) are barely competent and add no value (either because they don’t want to put in the effort, or) because they have never received any training of any consequence.
But, then, I haven’t attended either one of these meetings for over 10 years. I have kept hoping someone in the stake presidency would ask why so I could give them a piece of my mind (see above). No such luck.
#31 – what amazes me at times is how some Stakes have gone completely “corporate”, with a hard-driven sales mentality. The Sabbath a day of REST? Not if you’re REALLY faithful…I wonder how many brethren AND their wives get burned out with that relentless pace.
Three hours PLUS home teaching is quite enough for this old boy, thank you. The rest of the day is to chill out, putter about the house, watch Giants and/or Niners (so September and in recent years October is a double treat) and just RELAX. I take this “day of rest” thing SERIOUSLY.
#16 Dexter, your comment reminded me of this old post:
http://www.wheatandtares.org/12839/overscheduling-at-church/
#29 The Other Clark, that sounds a great way to go. I wonder how many of the meetings we have, we have simply because they are listed in the handbook, but are not otherwise very useful.
Any meeting held that early is just plain stupid. In all of these types of meetings I have attended, the content is instructional. Not in duties or new ideas – not on what might be working somewhere else in the world – but usually on rising to the challenge, finding the lost sheep (again), just being more dedicated and doing more.
That is why I don’t go to these anymore. If I can’t get enough generic instruction in the hours and hours of other meetings I go to there is something wrong…..
Ancient Greek dramas started at sunrise. There was a theater group in Salt Lake City that tried doing that, but found that was more authenticity than audiences wanted, and they fell back to starting a couple hours after sunrise. I googled for “Greek”, “drama”, and “sunrise”; the top search result was for Wikipedia, and the second is a 1975 Deseret News article:
“What could be more stimulating and exciting than an ancient Greek drama, in an outdoor setting at sunrise?
“‘We are trying to give some notion of the kind of experience the theater-goer can have in seeing a Greek play comparable to what the Athenian citizen would have seen when “Trojan Women” was first produced in 415 B.C.’
“Dr. Keith Engar, chairman of the University of Utah Theater Department was describing the Classical Theater Festival production scheduled at the U. Aug. 5 and 6, at 6 a.m.”
I saw this group do Oedipus Rex in 1990 in Emigration Canyon at 8 AM. The thrill of that performance, particularly the chorus, came back to mind two months ago, Sunday morning, March 8th, the first morning of Daylight Savings Time, sitting in our sunlit chapel listening to the testimonies of my fellow ward members.
John Mansfield: So that is where that comment was supposed to go (I saw it first in the other thread. I like that point a lot. It also gives me a desire to see an ancient Greek drama in the morning.
I have lived and gone to church in two main places thus far. In Texas, priesthood meeting was held in the evenings, always. I associated it with General Priesthood Meeting in my head because the times were always the same.
In Utah, it has varied, but is almost always early in the morning. Once, it was held outside, with breakfast. I enjoyed that. Other times, it has been much more normal in the church building. I still remember a few in a married student ward from which I went away kind of confused (mostly due to weird gender stuff and how I should relate to my wife). I don’t remember much else – they were early.
That said, assuming I get enough sleep the night before, I function quite well in the morning. My problem was that Sunday morning was the time I would sleep in. All other times I was up studying, since I was still in school. That never worked so well.
In both of the stakes in the city in North Carolina where I live, the meetings are always on a Sunday evening at 7:00 pm or 7:30. That is a much better time, but of course, it dosen’t make them any more interesting!!
I’ll add another data point. Here in my suburban LA stake, stake priesthood meeting and stake HP quorum meeting are held at 7:30am and have been for the 20+ years I’ve lived here. I’ll also agree that these meetings have no practical value and seem to be the almost dead echo from the time when priesthood quorums existed independently from wards and stakes.
@32, Things haven’t changed in the last 10 yrs so you haven’t missed anything. No matter the time of these meetings, has anyone learned anything or been inspired by these meetings to do anything different? Whatever is covered in a stake priesthood meeting can just as easily be covered in a regular priesthood meeting or a 5th Sunday-probably reach more priesthood holders on a Sunday anyway. Until a year ago I attended these meetings religiously: 2X a yr and on Saturday nights. I was unable to attend one last fall and found I did not miss the mtg. When the next one rolled around I skipped it and again found I did not miss it- not even the camaraderie of seeing friends from around the stake (large stake that with hours of driving between some units.). Good bye stake priesthood meetings for good, at least for me.