The past few days have brought a series of news stories remembering the terrible tragedy that happened 10 years ago. I was curious to see if there would be any differences in our church services. On the one hand, Music and the Spoken Word invited NBC News anchor Tom Brokaw to narrate a special tribute to the tragedy called Rising Above. I watched the re-run of it Sunday night (since my church meetings were scheduled at the same time.) I also note that President Monson wrote an op-ed piece in the Washington Post sharing thoughts about the tragedy.
My wife has tried to avoid watching the tributes because it brings back such terrible memories. I’ve read elsewhere that Americans simply aren’t ready to watch movies about the tragedy (unlike things like Pearl Harbor) because it still seems too close the the tragedy.
Our ward did not do anything special to remember the day. In sacrament meeting, we listened as a new family was invited to speak and introduce themselves to the ward. The parents both gave excellent talks. The wife spoke about service, and how we can all do better to serve. Her husband followed along with the service theme, but did make a few remarks about the 9/11 tragedy.
Our stake has made a big push to start indexing records to help with genealogy. I helped the YM/YW learn how to index records, and then did the same for priesthood meeting. Unlike the news programs and KBYU, there was very little reminder about the tragedy. So I”m trying to figure out if my bishop is like my wife–not wanting to remember bad memories, or if local leaders didn’t get any direction to try to remember this day. I wonder why there isn’t more flexibility to remember special events at church, such as departing from the normal lesson schedule for 1 week. What was your ward like? Is this an important day to remember?
This is our “Pearl Harbor”. While Dec 7 is known as Pearl Harbor Day, it isn’t a holiday. I’ve wondered if 9/11 should be a holiday. What do you think?
I’m in a multi-national ward outside the US. There was a very oblique reference to it, but that was all; just that the date “coincided” without mentioning to what. I had wondered whether there would be some mention since about half the members are American. We had a ward conference and split the ward, so that really dominated the meeting.
I made reference to 9/11 in my SS lesson about how there were victims of the tragedy that went beyond those who lost their lives. Thinking back, I am not certain how I got there since we were discussing how husbands and wives should treat each other and spiritual gifts.
But other than that, I didn’t hear a word about it.
So, Hawk moves to an new place and the Church begins to grow and they have to split the ward. Direct correlation!
We didn’t discuss the 9/11 attacks; our talks and lessons focused on the mountain meadows anniversary and lessons individual members and the institutional church should take away from that experience… Just kidding we covered the articles of faith.
Not even a single reference here. Seems as though a 10 year anny deserved something…
Considering what Gordon B. Hinckley said about the events of 9/11, it may not be possible to commemorate that day within the church.
I know that there are many who would like to build a cairn for 9/11 –to stoke the fires of anger/revenge. Others to contemplate the need to repent and find peace with humanity. Anticipating the fire stokers in my world I wrote this piece which takes aim at ourselves as a faith community and why as “Believe All Things” pointed out we are not likely to commemorate 9/11 as a faith community—our response I consider another monumental failure: http://themormonworker.wordpress.com/2011/09/09/speaking-truth-to-power-911
As we failed in 1838 if we ever are allowed to tell the true story of why we lost Zion.
In my ward there was plenty of talk in sacrament meeting and SS. They focused mostly on the human condition, like stories of individuals. Which I think was good. In SS they got a little bit into the politics of the event but the teacher did his best to focus it back on the human condition.
I think we should see why violence is such a poor way of making your point. Because Osama did make very good points about his grievances that the US has caused in the middle east that caused the deaths of much more than 3,000 people (pre 9/11, not to even mention post). But violence isn’t the solution, it only creates more violence.
So you suggesting a holiday like “Government Failure Day”? Sorry man, even if you don’t believe all the conspiracies (which I don’t) it is a horrible failure that the US government did on 9/11. The first couple of plains, sure, but the one that hit the pentagon and then the so called “investigation” into the events that the people on the commission even call bologna. No, we shouldn’t have a holiday, the event will be lost and not remembered as it should since people will be BBQing to much to think about it.
MH,
First off, I am sorry about my pervious commentary – I was rude and inconsiderate. As mentioned in a sister-thread, I have been out due to some significant changes in my life. They have provided a whole new perspective, hopefully for the better. I ask for your forgiveness and anyone else that I may have offended.
As for your post, I watched the music and the spoken word. We watched it as a family. It was amazing. I have always appreciated the positive spin the church puts on things. With what we’ve been through I really appreciated the reference to family and how they should be the focus in our life. Events like September 11th (and the one we went through as a family) are important to remember as they cause you to reflect on what is really important in life. So yes, for sure it is a day that should be remembered.
As long as we have the NFL starting in September, 9/11 will never be forgotten. Say what you will about sports in general, but the moment of silence at the beginning of the games while the trumpet played Taps in Pennsylvania was genuinely moving.
People would be wise to watch this documentary.
iamse7en —
That is an unadulterated pile crap.
This kind of wacko, conspiracy stuff dishonors the victims. It is vile, despicable, and reprehensible.
Spend lots of time reading Ron Paul (there seems to be some connection between 9/11 truthers and him for some goofy reason).
Iamse7en
I am going to be as respectful as possible, but the notion this was a setup by the government or was some kind of hoax is just absolute non-sense. After reviewing the structural engineering behind the building, I am surprised of two things: 1) the building did not collapse on initial impact; and, 2) when they collapsed I am surprised it didn’t completely destroy more buildings than it did.
Keep in mind, the largest bomb in our arsenal weighs about 12,000 lbs. A fully loaded 767 can weigh 180,000 lbs and can carry up to 25,000 gallons of jet fuel. It was not just a fire that caused the collapse. It was a fully loaded 767 traveling at over 500 MPH with 20,000 gallons of jet fuel – a mega-bomb. I am amazed the building absorbed this tremendous velocity. It is amazing it didn’t collapse on impact. What’s more, it is tube-in-tube construction with 4 inch concrete slabs on decking on each level. With 43,560 square feet of space per floor, this is 532 yards of concrete. This is nearly 1,863,000 lbs of concrete per floor BEFORE accounting for structural steel, reinforcing steel, decking, furniture, elevators, stairwells, mechanical equipment, plumbing fixtures, electrical equipment, filing cabinets, safes, etctra – easily over 2.5 million lbs per floor. This means if the plane hit on the 92nd floor there would be over 45 million lbs of weight bearing on a severely damaged structural frame. This is why the South tower (hit second) fell first because it hit lower.
With both buildings falling, it would be nearly 550 million lbs of debris falling, some of which fell nearly a ¼ mile. Imagine the damage a 25lb dumbbell would do from the top of the building, or a small car. The seismic wake from ½ a billion lbs falling would cripple foundations in the surrounding buildings. I am amazed more didn’t collapse. As indicated above in less than polite terms, your conspiracy is unfounded. Please look into the salient data more closely before jumping to such unfounded conclusions.
I know this is not the norm here, but will someone please delete #10 – or at least the link? It truly is vile and completely disrespectful – in violation of every decent comment policy I know.
I spoke in Sacrament Meeting in one of the wards in our stake about “making a mock of others” – and I used 9/11/01 as a direct part of my talk.
(I also had the unique experience of asking the congregation to sustain my release from one calling and to sustain me in my new one. It was really weird.)
In response to one of your questions – I don’t think 9/11 should be a national holiday. If it were to be made one, it may likely become just “one more day off” and eventually the events that took place could be forgotten or relegated to “story” status. Many are not able to say what Memorial Day is about. That being said, I realize that unless we continue to talk of the events, we will soon have a generation who will not understand what it is about and why it impacted us as a nation. That seems to be the nature of history.
I absolutely believe it to be an important day to remember. Each individual who watched the events unfold will have their own personal feelings. However, there seem to be common sentiments that have been repeated by many.
“It was the day I realized the US was not almighty and we were vulnerable to the horrors other countries have experienced.” “It was the day we lost our innocence.” “I became aware of the human condition and that it is possible for some to hate enough to kill randomly.” “For the first time in my life, I realized true fear.” “I realized I could not protect my family and loved ones.” ” It became important to draw my family near, spend time with them, and express my love more often than before.”
These are but a few. I’m sure all of you could add statements you have heard or expressed yourselves.
America, with all it’s faults, has a collective strength. Americans! United, we perform miracles..divided, we falter. 9/11 has the potential to unite us one day every year. The sheer horror of the events coupled with the willingness of those who gave so much for those whom they did not know, is awe inspiring to me. I will always remember 9/11.
I agree that on 9/11 we found out that “we were vulnerable to the horrors other countries have experienced.”
This is what is called “blowback.” From Viet Nam forward our nations has killed millions of civilians. In the words of MLK, their is no greater purveyor of violence in the world then the United States since Viet Nam to the present. Agent orange, bombing dams drowning 200,000 civilians in North Vietnam (see Nixon-Kissinger tapes–3 to 5 million North Vietnamese civilians were killed when we took over for France colonialism.
Our intervention is the middle east from the Shah of Iran, to providing 80% of all military armaments worldwide during the last few decades, supporting tyrants as long as they shared their oil…and then when their is a blowback (yes by evil men), we are surprised?
No, we exact vengeance. That is what 9/11 has become but it didn’t need to be if we were a real Christian nation. Since then we have killed 120,000 to 850,000 civilians (kill ratio of “insurgents” to civilians are 9 civilians for every “insurgent” we kill). Our predator drone bombings have increased these past few years killing men, women and children and occasional “insurgent” (in an almost Alice in Wonderland fashion we invade a country that does not invite us, has never attacked us, bomb indiscriminately killing civilians, then when anyone shoots back, we break down their doors and shoot everyone in sight –thanks wikileaks–and then call them “insurgents”??)
So 9/11 was awful and we should be horrified. But are we too tribal to not be horrified MORE by our revenge and what it has and still entails? Here are the raw numbers–debatable but only to degree: http://www.unknownnews.org/casualties.html
I would recommend reading Evan Wright’s “Generation Kill” and Ron Suskinds “One Percent Doctrine” and “Way of the World” for a start of one’s education. And even watch Robert McNamara’s documentary of 2002 called “Fog of War’ where he realizes finally that we were deceived into Viet Nam. I lived through that era. I did not think we would be so collectively immoral and stupid to do allow ourselves to be deceived again. Had we followed the mandates of Section 98 which exists to screen out evil and designing men on both sides of a conflict we would have never entered into these two wars of aggression. But I submit that we have rejected the words of Jesus in that covenant once again even as we did in 1838.
If we have a memorial have it like the Germans have done in remembering the Holocaust. A reminder of our national sins and a need to repent. But no, we will build our cairns and offer up more children to fires of Molech and call it patriotism. Mormon had it right. It is the wicked that slay the wicked. That is our memorial, in my opinion.
Ron,
I see a call for peace in the 98th section of the D&C, but I also see the rest of the 98th section of the D&C that calls for a complete slaughter of those enemies delivered into the hand of his servants by the very almighty. I see the example of Nephi who was commanded by a member of the Godhead to decapitate Laban. I see the example of Captain Moroni who slew thousands in the protection of his faith, family and friends; and, in his charter of liberty. I see the courage of the stripling warriors and the faith of their mothers. I see the evils of the Gadianton Robbers and the modern day version of this Klan known as Al Qaeda, Hamas or Hezbollah – lower life forms that hide in caves and scatter at the sight of light. I see the death and destruction of Sodom and Gomorrah by our very Lord.
When the Savior said there would be wars and rumors of wars, what he meant is that there would be wars and rumors of wars. He saw the evils of Hitler, Mao, Mussolini and Pol Pot. In his prophecy of evil, he also foretold through his Prophet Nephi of a land of freedom, a City on a shining hill. A land favored above all other lands. A beacon of hope for those suffering under the hands evil communist leaders such as Mao, Pol Pot, Castro, Stalin or Kim Jung Ill; or the evil fascists of Hitler and Mussolini; and, the evil mullahs and dictators in the middle east. Evil men who killed hundreds of millions of people – not hundreds or millions, but hundreds of millions.
I see America very differently than you. I see a nation that stands up to Evil. I see a nation that had the courage to stand up to Hitler, Mao, Mussolini and Pol Pot. I see a nation that has made its mistakes, but has largely made the world a better place. In American, I see an example of freedom. I see a land that allows people the dignity of deciding their own destiny. I see a land that allows the freedom of speech and the freedom of religion. I see a land that allows people like Ron Madsen to trash those that have given him the right to speak freely.
Will,
We have probably read different books, had different experiences and interpret the world differently. As my father, the WWII Patton infantry soldier turned pacifist told me: “The Book of Mormon is a Liahona” and it reads us as much as we read it. For some it is a guidebook inviting us to mimic their behavior for others of us it is a warning to not do what they did. It begins with a sword and ends with the sword. The symbols of the first narrative reveals the hubris that leads inexorably to the apocalypse. A concept that would take too much effort here to even begin to construct.
You see Nephi, Captain Moroni, etc. All of which I see living a lesser law which cannot in the end save their people unless they subjugate their wisdom to the greater words and example of Jesus of Nazareth as manifested by the Anti-Nephi Lehites who lived the highest law–the only law that avoids the Girardian mimetic rivalry.
I invite you to come and read all my posts with the Mormonworker.wordpress.org and deconstruct our anti-war positions there. We welcome your perspective.
The link for the Mormon worker blog is not what I listed above but rather: http://themormonworker.wordpress.com/
The Mormon Worker link I put in comment #6. It is not what I listed above.
Will:
I agree with Ron on this issue. Looking at the BoM as a narrative (i.e. a complete story), it’s hard to leave with the impression that violence is acceptable. Nephite culture was founded on the premise that their culture was better than others, that their morals were more justified than others… And, unfortunately, that included the rationale that it’s OK to kill those with whom you disagree.
We can either look at the BoM as a “what to do” record, or a “what not to do”, and sometimes both. When I read of the violence that litters that book, I prefer to see it as a “what not to do”.
Funny, what Joseph Smith found buried in Hill Cumorah could just as easily be a crime scene as anything else: he found the record describing the endless violence and he found the weapon chiefly responsible for the violence. Funny how we overlook that.
I’d invite you to watch this video and see where you disagree.
@Will,
I was going to leave Ron with the last word as they were so nice in #16. You cannot ignore the reasons the “terrorists” have attacked us. You cannot ignore all the bad and only look at the good. We have been the cause of millions of deaths in the middle east and that was one of the reasons they attacked us. Another was for our occupation of the middle east. Another for our propping up of ruthless dictators and other regimes. The toppling of governments they chose but we did not like. All this over the last 60 years or so. It’s amazing we haven’t been pummeled. I suppose God has protected us until we are ripe in our iniquity.
The founding fathers taught us not to participate in foreign affairs, to not have a standing army, etc. We have ignored them. The scriptures tell us to throw down our weapons of war. That in the last days we will hear of wars and rumors of wars, not participate in them but know of them. They tell us in the last days that those who refuse to lift the sword against their neighbor will flee to New Jerusalem and God will protect them because they are fierce as a lion and no nation will come against them, but the wicked will destroy the wicked.
Will, lay down your weapons of war and stop sacrificing our children, brothers, sisters, etc. I do believe some might be called by the holy spirit to join the military, but what is their mission? To encourage others to get out? To preach the good word to other military personnel?
Is it just for a man to kill an invading arming into his nation? If the Chinese and Russians came to the US to divide us up, is it just for us to repel them? I can tell you, that it I can understand why the Iraqis/Afghanistans want to fight back their occupiers.
We see why violence doesn’t work. The perpetrators of the twin tower attacks had a message they wanted to send (I, in no way think it was OK for them to kill civilians, or anybody, but I can understand). But we didn’t get it. It would have been better if they would have sent over emissaries to reach out and teach the American people the atrocities of the US government’s military and intelligence agencies were doing to their people. But they chose violence. Need we choose violence too?
I like this new Will. 🙂
My previous comments may be viewed as naive and unaware of what kinds of things the U.S has not only been a part of, but initiated. Not so. Look at WWII and what we did to the Japanese by sequestering them into interment camps. I do not believe for a moment that if we capture the “enemy” we do not interrogate them, brutally, just as they do our soldiers. I am aware of Vietnam and the things that happened there. I read about it daily. I believe that the truth in all of these situation is not “our truth” nor “their truth” but somewhere in between. No country that I know of is “clean”. I think most countries promote their own agendas – toward innocence – and others are the big, bad bullies.
I am sure 9/11 was retaliation for what a certain group of people saw as gross interference on the part of the US. As with children, tit for tat is not the answer. I’m not sure what the answer is. I am equally sure I will not see it in my lifetime.
I simply wanted to state that 9/11 had a profound impact on me. Perhaps because it happened on our soil, was so brazen and because of technology we saw it happen blow by blow.
Will #22
I particularly liked your last paragraph. Humanity has grappled with violence for centuries. It was not the answer then, nor is it now.
I did not bring 3 buildings down with 2 planes. I am not vile. What is vile, are the questions that cannot be explained by the “official” story, which is full of dishonesty and impossibility. Even NIST admitted, the case of WTC 7 is the FIRST TIME they know of in history, for such a tall, steel-frame building to come down primarily due to office fires. With an event that was never known to have happened before, you would think it was a surprise. WRONG. Many witnesses attest that they were told the building was brought down, which is why they were told to back away from the building. FOREKNOWLEDGE of an event NEVER known to have happened before. That’s just the tip of the iceberg.
What is vile is attacking me, suggesting my comments be deleted because I want answers. Thousands of professional, credible architects and engineers, and demolition experts, say the official story cannot explain the collapse of the buildings. They know much more than you are I – and they are backed by 9/11 Victim families.
You would all be wise to at least watch this 15 minute video. No attacks, no conspiracy nuts, just professional architects and engineers who have studied and tested the official hypothesis and conclude it is wrong.
This discussion illustrates how profoundly the experiences of nearly fifty years ago confirmed the intellectual biases with which our childhoods endowed us, and how deeply, and perhaps permanently, they divide the way we view all events in the world today.
@Firetag,
I don’t think I get what you’re alluding to entirely.
I just don’t understand why there is always such a lust for blood and why people can’t view how others are feeling in other nations. It makes me sad. It would be nice to live in a voluntary society so I wouldn’t have to know that I am participating in any of this.