This post is from Ray Degraw. He runs his own blog called Things of My Soul, and has blogged at Mormon Matters and StayLDS. Everyone in the Bloggernacle knows him simply as ‘Ray’. Last week, he attended the worldwide training for the recently distributed Church Handbook of Instructions and wanted to share his impressions.
I am not a natural note taker, but I took extensive notes at the training today – at first, simply to be able to share highlights here with all of you, but then just because I was amazed and stunned and astounded and thrilled by so much of what I was hearing. I mean that sincerely. This was one of those times when I was SO glad I was Mormon and in a leadership position. “WOW!” doesn’t even begin to describe my reaction – and I had NO expectation of that type of reaction.
The following are the highlights of the training session for me:
1) Pres. Monson said something that sounded at first like a typical Stage 3 outlook. He said, “There is safety in the handbooks.” However, by the time he finished his brief introductory remarks, and especially by the end of the training, it ended up representing much more of a Stage 5-6 statement to me – and that REALLY surprised me. [the change in how I understood it, not that he would say something that represents Stage 5-6 thinking]
He talked about how much time the First Presidency spends correcting errors of local leaders – especially in regard to disciplinary councils. [I was struck by the thought that the handbooks partially are to free them up to do what they are called primarily to do. I honestly hadn’t thought of it in that way.]
2) Elder Oaks said that the CHI does NOT have the same standing as scripture, but that it represents the best understanding of our current leadership. The current version has 12% fewer words than the last one – even with three new sections in this one. That is significant, imo. He also said explicitly that all women and men in leadership positions will have a FULL Handbook 2. It’s important for all leaders to know the responsibilities of each leader throughout the ward.
Leaders need to delegate extensively – and lessen things that are non-essential, like helping every member move. The programs are less important than the people. Each individual member should not have more than ONE major calling – and that applies also to couples with minor children. They should not both have a major calling. Official church policy is changed only by the FP – not by rumor or statements from individual leaders. [This one drew a laugh, but it’s instructive that he felt the need to say it.]
3) Elder Cook’s part blew me away. [Seriously, it almost left me speechless – and everyone knows how hard that is to do.] PEC no longer is the top council at the local level. [Yeah, that’s right. Go ahead and re-read that if you have to in order to believe it.] Ward Council is the primary ministering council now; PEC is to discuss anything that is not addressed in Ward Council and is to be “greatly reduced in length, perhaps to a few minutes prior to Ward Council”. [I totally didn’t see that one coming.] Welfare Committee is eliminated immediately, since those discussions now will occur in Ward Council. Everything that can be done outside of the actual Ward Council meeting (like calendaring and activity approval) should not be done in Ward Council. This change was done primarily to make sure that ALL local leaders have direct input into the decision-making process of the wards and branches, and it was stated forcefully that this means men AND women leaders acting as equals within a council.
Bishops were encouraged to solicit input from all council members and then reach decisions – NOT present their view and ask for input. (Later in the training, Elder Bednar said something like, “Sometimes Bishops express their opinions and then ask if anyone disagrees, which almost always is met with silence. Well, DUH!!” [That produced a laugh, but it was wonderful to hear it said openly.] ALL members of the Ward Council should be encouraged to speak “openly and honestly as equals through their own experiences and perspectives”. Bishops were told to value such open and honest input. Each organization presidency has the authority to address issues that are internal to that organization – and have a voice in ward-wide issues.
Activities Committees are eliminated immediately. [another one I didn’t see coming] All ward-wide activities will be overseen by assignment from the Bishop, after input from the Ward Council. There should be an appropriate number of activities – enough, but not so many that families and members are over-whelmed.
Small units have the flexibility to adapt standard programs and policies to meet their needs, through inspiration from the councils in those units. In many cases, leaders may fill ONLY those callings that are essential. ALL service requires sacrifice, but excessive sacrifice should not be asked of anyone. Young Single Adults can fill many positions to which they currently are not being called.
HT/VT may be adapted to meet local circumstances, if membership simply can’t visit every member each month. For example, some families may be removed from the visit list completely – or some families may be visited one month by HT and the next month by VT. Again, these decisions are to be made at the local level through inspired council discussion.
4) A model Ward Council was presented [and, as much as I usually dislike role-playing, I really liked this one]. It was stressed that it’s important to ask council members to ponder and pray about some issues or questions, then to come to the next meeting ready to discuss their impressions.
At one point, the Bishop said to one of his counselors, “Talk with them, then extend the invitation – if it feels right.” “Invitation” was used multiple times; “challenge” wasn’t used at all. [I wanted to stand up and cheer about that one.]
The YW Personal Progress and YM Duty to God were talked about as equal in importance. The YM Pres. was talking about taking the YM to a member’s car shop to learn about some basic car maintenance, and the YW Pres. said, “Don’t forget the YW just because the activity is about fixing cars. They need to know how to do that, also.” Later, the YW Pres. was talking about the YW helping a recent widow clean her house, and the YM Pres. said, “Don’t forget the YM just because the activity is about cleaning houses. They need to know how to do that, also.” [I really like that they made that point explicitly.] The Bishop said, “Sister _______ has given me permission to talk about her needs.” [I LOVE that principle.]
5) There was a panel discussion with Pres. Beck, Elder Ballard, Elder Holland, Elder Bednar and Elder Gonzales. [It seemed to be a combination of scripted and unscripted, and I enjoyed it immensely.] Pres. Beck quoted the D&C passage about when ALL have spoken, ALL may be edified together. Elder Holland and Elder Bednar both emphasized that the focus was on families and parents and people, not programs. Elder Gonzales stressed assignment and follow-up.
The following were the highlight quotes for me:
- The Bishop listened more than he talked. It’s important to direct, not dominate.
- The presentation seemed perfect, but the patterns are important despite the imperfections in the actual units.
- ALL presidencies are councils. They ALL should counsel as this one did.
- Nobody knows all the answers to all the questions. That’s why councils are so critical.
- “Counseling” is “counter-cultural” almost everywhere. It can be seen as a spiritual gift, in a way – and we all should seek that gift.
- The Bishop needs to acknowledge and affirm revelation from all sources and levels. He shouldn’t expect to receive all of it.
- The women in the council were engaged in the conversation. We haven’t always encouraged that as we should. (Elder Holland)
- Take care of in presidencies what can be done in presidencies. “You are a RS President. You have authority as a President for MUCH. Tell the Bishop, ‘This is what we found. This is what we’ve done.'” (Pres. Beck)
- We can be too quick to do too much. (Elder Bednar – addressing allowing others to do for themselves what they are able to do)
- International areas don’t have models for how to run the Church. The CHI generally is the only “model” they have. (Elder Gonzales)
On a personal note, I found it interesting that Pres. Beck interrupted Elder Ballard at one point to add her own comment about something he was saying – and not one of the men on the panel batted an eye or seemed surprised or upset in any way. It was obvious that it had happened previously. That seems like such a little thing, but it impressed me.
The summaries from each participant were enlightening and quite powerful. I will summarize Pres. Beck’s last, since it was the second strongest highlight of the training for me:
- Elder Holland – We need to teach, first and foremost. We can’t motivate like the world motivates, especially by using negativity and threats. We need to teach.
- Elder Bednar – My fondest wish is that we could remove the word “meeting” from our vocabulary – as in, “We are going to a meeting.” I wish we could view them as “revelatory experiences” – and that won’t happen unless we strive to make them such experiences and quit viewing them just as meetings.
- Elder Gonzales – We need to seek the will of the Lord.
- Elder Ballard – There is great power in group synergy – when WE decide we will act together. Women are just as important as men in everything we do.
- Pres. Beck – We have to decide what counts. The Savior didn’t count statistics and numbers. What counted to him was caring, love, service, ministering, blessing, etc. We need to make a new beginning in the Church and count as He counts.” [I still get choked up when I remember the way I felt when she said that. It was incredibly powerful for me – and I noticed a visible reaction from MANY of the people in the chapel.]
6) Elder Packer finished with a short statement, and it was the absolute highlight of the training for me. It reminded me of why I sustain him as a prophet and apostle. I mean that sincerely. It was astounding, and if he dies before the next General Conference, it will be the memory of him that stays with me. Among the things he said, in my own summarized words (except where I use quotation marks), were:
- This CHI is meant to provide “simplification and flexibility”. “Let me underline that.”
- Pres. Clark once said that too much regimentation can remove revelation. We are in danger of that happening in the Church.
- ALL meetings should be conducted by the Spirit. It is time for our young men and young women to prophecy and for our old men and women to dream dreams.
- There is a danger of establishing the Church and not the Gospel. Planting the Gospel in our hearts MUST accompany having the Church in our lives. Busy-ness can’t replace testimony.
- Families are not tools to staff the Church; the Church is a tool to serve families. Don’t over-burden families!
Comments?
Wheat & Tares 
Thank you for the summary. It sounds like things are heading in a good direction. It may take a long time to trickle down, but I like the things you’ve summarized.
Great summary, Ray. Thanks for your impressions.
I remember having many of the same feelings as you did, with this additional one: I’ve been fortunate to live in units (many of them admittedly far from Salt Lake) where the principles taught are not new.
President Packer spoke in a priesthood leadership meeting in Michigan about 10 years ago in which he offered very similar teaching to what you summarized here, suggesting we needed to rely more on the spirit to bring the GOSPEL to FAMILIES rather than families to the church. But I hadn’t remembered his comments in that way until I read your summary. Thanks for that.
Thanks for the summary. I missed the broadcast and keep meaning to watch it, but just haven’t gotten to it yet.
What does PEC stand for?
Overall, it seems generally hopeful. The proof of the pudding, as always, is in the eating.
Two comments:
(1) “Revelatory experiences?” Seriously, Elder Bednar? I foresee a whole crop of leaders doing that now, just like when a few people started saying “tender mercies” instead of “blessings.” But that’s a minor thing.
(2) “We need to make a new beginning in the Church and count as [the Savior] counts.” Been there, heard that before too many times. At the end of the day, pressure will be on to have numbers, not spiritual experiences, because numbers can be reported.
I’d be happy to be proved wrong, but I grew up in the Church and I’ve heard it all. “Don’t overburden families.” “Don’t have too many meetings.” “Remember the family.” I’ve heard these kinds of things for decades. I’m sure the GAs were as serious about it before as they are now, but that didn’t make it stick down in the trenches.
Only God can say “Let there be light” and have it happen. Everyone else needs to actually work at it, and that includes the GAs. Let me know a year or two from now if things have really changed for the better.
Diane – PEC = Priesthood Executive Committee.
One clear change is that women are officially being given a much more sanctioned empowered voice going forward. Local leaders may still have to implement (and therefore may screw it up), but this was pretty clear. I tend to agree with Goldarn that calling a meeting a “revelatory experience” is kind of dumb and will probably be used by the uber-faithful to demonstrate that they were paying attention, but I agree with the sentiment if not the nomenclature. I also feel it was important to specifically teach bishops to shut their pie hole and ask for input before dispensing their own advice. That’s just good advice for leaders of all sorts; without it, leaders taint the input.
Thanks, Ray, for providing such a thorough set of notes on this meeting. Good to have you around again! Don’t be a stranger!
Elder Packer said: “It is time for our young men and young women to prophecy and for our old men and women to dream dreams.”
When they do, that had better have thick skins when they relate their manifestations because their going to experience varying degrees of ridicule.
Elder Packer said: “There is a danger of establishing the Church and not the Gospel.”
IMHO, this is why many in the church don’t have as many manifestations the gifts of the Spirit as they could have.
Just a quick question: how can something that contains 12% fewer words somehow increase in page count by +30 total pages (counting both books)? That’s a bit baffling.
Also, does anyone else get the sense that inviting everyone in any leadership position to have a FULL book 2 invites that old “looking over your shoulder” mindset? Now so-and-so can look in the handbook and see what I’m supposed to be doing in my calling, and call that out? Probably won’t happen too often (I hope), but certainly won’t be surprised at the next meeting where someone else reads from a different section and says, “you’re supposed to be doing x, y or z.”
Lastly, until there’s a change in heart for everyone involved, the euphoria many felt from comments like Elder Packer’s will be forgotten in a couple of weeks and we’ll be back to the doldrums of more of the same meetings that have been happening for decades. Until people really change their hearts away from a Pharisaical mindset, I can’t envision much lasting change – other than the one or two with whom a change of heart occurs.
Not impressed. It’s the same old thing. Seriously. As Goldarn said, “I’ve heard and seen it all before.”
“Revelatory experiences?” Avoiding using words for they actually mean once again rears its head. If we want to be honest, how about calling them “Sleep inducing experiences?”
“Pres. Clark once said that too much regimentation can remove revelation. We are in danger of that happening in the Church.”
Hate to point out that the church has LONG passed that point.
Sorry I haven’t been able to be on top of this today. It’s been one of those days.
Mike, I agree that it’s going to take differing amounts of time for everything to reach the end of the local rows. However, I’ve been encouraged in the units in our stake by how many times the CHI and the training have been cited already. I also like that in one ward where men used to open Sacrament Meeting and women used to close it (with prayer), this week two women prayed. Small step, sure – but it’s HUGE in some ways and happened because of wording clarification in the CHI.
Paul (and everyone else who said the same type of thing in different words), I know much of what was said is not new – but it also is easy for the critical to overlook how much of what was said really is new. It also was really good to hear some of the things said openly – like Elder Holland’s admission that the Church hasn’t been good in many cases about listening to the women and giving them equal voices in the top councils of the Church. That wasn’t just said; the actual power structure of the wards literally was changed in a clear organizational way. Of course, the proof is in the pudding – but the object changes make me more hopeful than if it had been just words.
Tom, your question about length is a good one – and it’s a pretty simple answer. The font is larger, and the page formatting allows for fewer words per page. It’s MUCH easier to read and follow than the last version.
Eliminating the activities committee in large/larger wards will greater increase the work load of the auxiliary presidencies. Activity committee creation should have been an option for bishops.
I have to say that people are hopping to this faster than I thought they would. In our ward: activities committee already released and Primary schedule already changed to reflect new organizational guidelines. Now, let’s just see about women’s equal voices…
There’s a lot of things that ought to be an option for bishops — like whether to send less than 95% of tithing money collected from the congregation to Salt Lake.
BIV:
The keys of the church have been placed firmly in the hands of the women of the church. This is by divine design, just as the keys of the priesthood have been placed firmly in the hands of the men of the church.
The tremendous power of the keys of the church, if wielded by the sisters as a voting block to end ecclesiastical tyranny, or merely to vote their conscience — even if it contradicts the leadership’s position — presents an insurmountable obstacle to would-be priesthood tyrants.
If the sisters awake to the existence of the keys of the church and exercise their voting power, then leadership positions lose all their supposed authority.
As long as the sisters remain ignorant of this authority given to them by the Lord upon their baptism, or feel reluctant to exercise it — men are free to rule in the church as priest-tyrants.
This is good news, generally. Thanks for the excellent summary, Ray. And it is good to have you back!
It does take a while for these things to take real effect. Maybe, it might take a leadership change in some areas.
What’s interesting to me is that this is not so much new news as it is finally written down and communicated to the leaders in one lump, so to speak.
I’ve heard bits and pieces of this for more than 13 years now. but, it was not institutionalized on a Church-wide basis.
Now, I hope that it will. Pres. Packer, for instance, has been saying these things to the leadership for at least 10 or more years. I have notes to back that up. So, again good news all around. The boo birds, notwithstanding.
Justin, I read that post on LDS Anarchy where you wrote about the keys being placed in the hands of the women. Not sure I agree. I will try to put my thoughts together and respond to that idea.
The Bob Dylan song, these times they are a Changin’ came to mind.
I was really pleased during WWLT, many changes have already been introduced into our ward, I liked the point that it was appropriate to invite the R.S President to PEC.
We are still holding PEC every two weeks, it has been reduced from weekly. I think it will take time for Bishoprics to take every ward decision to WC although we are holding WC twice a month rather than just monthly.
I didn’t attend the meeting, nor did I watch the video, but a friend of mine attended and he said to me that he noticed that during the role play there seemed to be a “racial order” to the speaking. I still haven’t confirmed this myself. Did anyone else notice this?
Ray, I liked this summary more than the others I have read. Your summary seemed to best capture what I understood to be the intent of various aspects of the meeting, without dwelling too much on new procedures.
It seems to me that lots of efforts are being made to encourage flexibility and permit individuals to participate in decision making. The new Duty to God and Preach my Gospel reflect this too. It seems like Elder Ballard has progressively rallied support around implementing these good ideas.
At the same time, it seems too good to be true, especially after a general conference that emphasized through repetition the 14 points of absolute obedience to ecclesiastical authority in spiritual and temporal matters. “Obey or suffer….” How does that kind of teaching facilitate the changes they are hoping for?
This really was the best of the summaries I’ve read. Thanks Ray.
LDS Anarchist
No, there was no racial ordering, it just so happened that the Ward Clerk was Latino and the Executive Sec was Black. As someone who is mixed race I am extremely sensitive to this issue, but you can be hypersensitive and see racism in everything. The Sunday School president was Asian also.
BIV:
Justin, I read that post on LDS Anarchy where you wrote about the keys being placed in the hands of the women. Not sure I agree. I will try to put my thoughts together and respond to that idea.
The post was written by LDSA and I would encourage you to put your thoughts in comment form at the post itself [An alternate view of the keys]
Concerning the CHI training session — I do find it interesting that [originally] the meeting and the books were not to be made available to the rank-and-file under any circumstance. Then the CHI is leaked, as well as a big uproar online concerning the whole thing and then — suddenly — the meeting and Book 2 will be archived online.
Hello COB — Nice to see you today.
Thanks for the report Ray. I’m glad to see progress being made where it can. I applaud efforts to make things better.
A few thoughts:
1. I feel like in the church we have a tendency to give lip-service to many ideas, but in practice it doesn’t work out. For example, prophet fallibility is true, but no one acts like it. Education is encouraged except when it challenges faith (at which point it becomes doubt). I can’t help but feel that perhaps we might be in a similar situation here. We are indeed getting the message from leaders to change things, but will it really change? Will women really have an equal say?
2. The message is being sent that we are in danger of establishing the church and not the Gospel but what about this new CHI changes that? In many instances the church has replaced the Gospel, or at least intercepted it (IMHO). For example, I was a bit surprised (when I got my new handbook) at the overwhelming number of issues on which the church has an “official position.” Since the “Gospel” as Christ taught does not declare that we should not get vasectomies, doesn’t it stand to reason that we ought to figure that out for ourselves in our own personal relationship with God/Christ? I know the church includes the caveat (in virtually all of their official positions) that it is ultimately up to the individual, but let’s be real here, when the church says something like “strongly discourages” it will gain commandment status, and will be used a righteousness measuring stick. I think if the church is really interested in establishing the Gospel instead of the church, perhaps they should stop intercepting the minutia of normal life and let us live the Gospel.
3. Overall, I think it is a great move to let everyone have a copy of handbook 2 and even put it online. Perhaps there will now be more “over-the-shoulder-looking” but I applaud openness wherever it is found!
4. Some things about the new ward council importance concern me a little. Many members are pretty open with their bishop, and more than one bishop (even in my own experience) has violated privacy in an effort to be helpful. Inviting more people to talk about other people’s problems seems like it could be an avenue for violating trust. I recognize the intent is to be ministers to those in need, and the role play explicitly indicated permission was needed to share, but my experience is that this is that many don’t want their problems aired out and that trust is often violated. I really don’t know how to solve this problem and still help people, but I think it is a problem.
Anyway, thanks again Ray. Don’t be a stranger!
#8: “Also, does anyone else get the sense that inviting everyone in any leadership position to have a FULL book 2 invites that old “looking over your shoulder” mindset?”
Members of ward councils have had the whole Book 2 for years.
#10: “Paul (and everyone else who said the same type of thing in different words), I know much of what was said is not new – but it also is easy for the critical to overlook how much of what was said really is new.”
I agree. It’s not particularly new, but Sister Beck is right: this idea of counseling with councils is counter cultural. I won’t be surprised if we do this all again in another 10 or 15 years so yet another new generation of leaders can hear the message again, and hopefully get it even better than we do today.
#11: Activity committee creation IS an option for ward councils. But rather than a standing committee, they’ll be created for a specific activity. The council can decide when that needs to happen in the new structure. This is to me a very cool innovation.
#19: “How does that kind of teaching facilitate the changes they are hoping for?”
I think one way is that we honor the prophet when he speaks as a prophet, but we don’t accept local leaders in quite the same way. Just as the other members of the First Presidency and the Quorum of the 12 may discuss or even challenge ideas in their councils, we can do the same on a local level. Once that collective inspiration results in a decision, then all can rally behind it.
Why has it taken soooo long for the Church to wake up and realize that some of these changes are long over due?
What amazing training! Now, it falls on local leaders to have the faith to implement the principles that were taught. Thank you, Ray, for this inspiring post!
“For example, I was a bit surprised (when I got my new handbook) at the overwhelming number of issues on which the church has an “official position.” Since the “Gospel” as Christ taught does not declare that we should not get vasectomies….”
IIRC, that was in the old handbook, also. One of the counselors recently called to my Stake Presidency just got one, so I suspect this may be more of a Pirates of the Caribbean “guideline” than a hard & fast rule.
#21, Mr. Q&A:
Thank you for that clarification. One more question. I was told that the speaking order was racially ordered, too. In other words, the black man spoke last, etc. Is this true? It may have nothing to do with race, of course, it may just have to do with the speaking order of the callings held by the actors, but my friend told me that if you took away the stated titles and just saw it for what it looked like, you had three white guys (to one side?) and a racial mix speaking to them, but the racial mix spoke by racial order. That was the impression he got. So, did they appear to speak in a racial order?
LDS Anarchist
I guess if you were unaware of the individuales calling, it may well have looked iffy, but Ward Clarks and Exec Sec’s would often reply to instructions of “remind me later, what has been discussed so far or contact bro jones”. Ward Clarks and Exec Sec’s will often administer whilst Bishops and EQ’s minister.
“Since the “Gospel” as Christ taught does not declare that we should not get vasectomies….”
I think it is important to realize where this might come from rather than focus on the thing itself.
We are commanded to “multiply and replenish the earth.” Anything that would prevent that is not in harmony with it.
However, it is a far different thing for a 25 year old newly married to elect a vasectomy in order NOT to have children than a 50 years old who has done his multiplying and replenishing already.
Ultimately it is a personal choice for anyone and they are responsible or whatever consequences might occur later on.
But as a rule, these policies come from a Doctrine which needs to be understood to understand where the policy comes from.
Doctrine——->Principles———>Practices
We are commanded to “multipl[y] and replenish the earth.”
The operand is left unstated.
LDS Anarchist. I’ve been and am currently a clerk and my job is to be sure things get done. I may be asked an opinion or how to do things but I’ve never assumed I was another counselor. And I’m just your basic old bald white guy.
Re Thomas
It may have been. That last time I had access to a CHI was in 2000 on my mission and it was in Russian. So I suspect I either don’t remember what was in there or I didn’t find it distasteful that there was so many official church positions.
Re Jeff
Yeah, I’m not really confused as to where it comes from (though your explanation doesn’t jibe with the section on birth control. There is clearly something ELSE that leads the church to take a “strongly discourages” stance on vasectomies (like the permanence)). If one “understands the Doctrine” from which this practice comes (as you suggest) then there ought to be many other implications (like not using ANY form of birth control).
In any case, none of this is my complaint. My complaint is the vast number of normal, non-spiritual life decisions and events that the church feels the need to speak out on. Now that the manual is public, I wonder whether or not these things will be elevated to commandment status and used as a righteousness measuring stick. Furthermore, something about “not being commanded in all things” comes to mind (I know you’ll say these aren’t commandments, but then my question is, why put them in the CHI at all? How should I classify these “suggestions,” and how does it impact me should I choose not to follow them?).
Here goes. Please pardon the multipe comments to follow:
Chris, eliminating the activities shouldn’t do a single thing to add to the presidencies’ loads – since the actual implementation of “ward-wide activities” can be assigned to anyone, at the discretion of the Ward Council. Organizational activities will be handled just like they have been. Also, Activity Committee creation IS in the hands of the Bishop still – on an activity-by-activity basis, with input from the Ward Council.
BIV, yeah, it is striking in my area as well how quickly changes are being implemented. It’s not a little thing that two women prayed in Sacrament Meeting in one ward for the first time in anyone’s memory – simply because the wording in the CHI was clarified and made explicit.
Justin, I agree that women and youth have MUCH more authority and power than they realize, especially temple endowed women, but until the culture of the Church changes most of them won’t know it. The change to Ward Council, for one, is an important step in the right direction. In some ways, I’d love faster change, but you can’t prune the tree faster than the strength of the root.
Jeff, it is good to have it written. I don’t an unwritten order of things – even as I would like less to be written, when it comes right down to it. I’m glad there’s much less written not than there was previously.
Mr. Q&A, that one change (placing Ward Council above PEC as the top council and GREATLY erducing the time spent and topics discussed in PEC) is vitally important to implement immediately, imo. To me, that change is MASSIVE; it really is hard to express how shocked and pleased I was when I heard it.
LDS Anarchist, there was absolutely no racial “issue” during the Ward Council. That really is a comment from someone who is hyper-sensitive about race.
Ray, in your comments 34 and 35 you make two really valuable points. First, codifying some of the changes does have value, especially to those of us who are likely to turn to the handbook for guidance. The handbook turners (like me) may be less likely to remember Elder Ballard’s conference talks or some other direction given in the interim, so it’s good to have it all down.
And second, the relative weight of PEC and Ward Council is also a big deal. I hadn’t quite thought of it in the way you expressed it before. When I lived in Venezuela 12 years ago, we had so many new members in our ward that we had two ward councils a month just to keep track of them with the ward council, so multiple ward councils a month — while not the norm — were not wholly new to me, but the idea that the Ward Council the THE council is new and exciting.
Paul 2, I really like the way you said the following:
“It seems to me that lots of efforts are being made to encourage flexibility and permit individuals to participate in decision making.”
That’s a very good summary of my impressions.
As to the 14 Fundamentals references in General Conference, I look at it as two different people who tried to find something to explain / justify our political involvement – and that talk was at the top of the search results on lds.org. Personally, anything titled something like “______ Fundamentals” or “Mormon Doctrine” simply isn’t fundamental or doctrine, fwiw.
Thank you, Stephen.
Justin, I view the posting of the CHI online as a good thing – and proof positive that the leadership really is listening to the membership and trying to address “legitimate” concerns the best they can. (Obviously, “legitimate” is in the eye of the beholder, but I really do believe they are trying.)
jmb275, There are two distinct churches within the LDS Church – the global one and the local one. Sometimes it takes a long time for the global water to get to the end of the local rows, and some rows build dams and never get the water. I think opening up decision-making to the Ward Council and telling Bishops to shut up and listen is a very god step in breaking down those dams that do exist – and it’s about the only option open to the global leadership that still values local leadership. This really is a two-edged sword – one of the central paradoxes of the Church.
I also hope the more “practical” issues addressed in the CHI disappear eventually.
Well said, Paul – and I want to echo Pres. Beck in stressing that true counseling really is counter-cultural. It happens with individual leaders throughout society, but it’s not common in any industry or large segment of society.
Michael Ortega, change takes time – at least change that doesn’t kill. One of my specialties is organizational change management, and making seismic changes without capsizing the boat is hard.
Brother Q, Amen.
Thomas, I like the “guideline” analogy – especially since it was stated explicitly that the CHI is not to be held to the same “standard” as the scriptures. That also was very good to hear stated openly and unequivocally.
Everyone, regarding the questions about things like vasectomies:
I’ve already said I personally would like to see fewer of those things addressed in the CHI – but Elder Gonzalez stressed something (which I mentioned in the post) that is important to consider when discussing things like this. He said that, OFTEN, the CHI is the only “model” many units around the world have. With that in mind, most of the leadership and membership in those areas are converts – with all kinds of cultural traditions and practices and biases from their pasts. LOTS of things we understand (both the general ideal and the individual exception) are new to them – and so they tend to ask about them and want answers to their questions. If a culture, society or government routinely sterilizes after one or two children, for example, it would be important to have a statement “strongly discouraging” that type of practice.
Sometimes, we forget that the Church is a global organization – and that some of what it says needs to be said even if it doesn’t resonate with us individually.
It’s critical that they ask those types of questions – but it might not be critical that WE do. Sometimes, it’s MUCH better not to ask the question in the first place and simply act as agents unto ourselves in our own spheres. That’s essentially what Pres. Beck said in her example about the RS Pres. doing what she had the authority to do and then telling the Bishop what she had done – not waiting to ask and be told what to do.
Personally, I’m not bothered all that much by the actual wording regarding vasectomies – since the focus is on “elective” surgeries that eliminate the ability to have children, and since the stated exceptions are broad enough to allow, for example, for someone who has a larger than average family or is at a slighlty advanced age to have that type of surgery without violating what I see to be the spirit of the idea.
For example, my wife and I thought we were done after having four kids – and then we decided a couple of years later that we wanted one more. Three years after number five was born, we both had completely separate “experiences” that convinced us we should have one more.
Now, my wife is at an age and physical condition when another pregnancy would greatly increase the likelihood of complications, difficulties and abnormalities. We probably will not do anything surgically, since but if we chose to do so, I believe our situation would fit totally within the exceptions outlined in the CHI.
Again, I would love it if fewer things could be addressed in the CHI – but sometimes what we think is irrelevant really is important somewhere in the world.
Ray: “Personally, anything titled something like “______ Fundamentals” or “Mormon Doctrine” simply isn’t fundamental or doctrine, fwiw.” QFT.
jmb – “My complaint is the vast number of normal, non-spiritual life decisions and events that the church feels the need to speak out on. Now that the manual is public, I wonder whether or not these things will be elevated to commandment status and used as a righteousness measuring stick.” I do think Ray’s onto something here when he talks about a global church, although I think some are just holdovers from previous versions of the manual that haven’t yet been removed, but eventually will be. I would guess that there are fewer of these types of instructions in there than there were 20 years ago. But Ray’s reminder of the non-US folks helps. It’s another thing that helps me with the PoF. When an American who is fairly enlightened in terms of gender equality and equal parenting reads it, it seems as outdated as an episode of Mad Men. But when someone from a more sexist or oppressive culture reads it, it sounds like “quit hanging out in the bar with your buddies and go home and change a few diapers.”
Ray–
Thanks for posting this. I’ve enjoyed reading your notes and the various comments.
For those interested, the entire CHI Training is available to listen/view at LDS.org.
Several of the changes announced in the meeting were already in progress in our stake. Welfare Meeting was eliminated nearly a year ago and Ward Council had become the priority. The emphasis has been for members of the Council to recognize themselves as equal members of a functioning council with responsibility for the ward as a whole, rather than simply representatives of their assigned organization.
BTW, for anyone that wants to view the training or the complete new Handbook 2, it is available online at lds.org. It might eliminate the “telephone game effect” that I have seen in the comments of several posts regarding the new handbook training.
Oops – I missed Jared’s comment in (42).
Yes, I can see this.
Re Ray
I see what you’re getting at.