It sure feels like the social fabric of America is coming unraveled, with convicted felon Donald Trump and his crew of clowns and sycophants busy pulling on every loose thread. The global picture doesn’t look any better, with the US military now out there on the high seas actively killing civilians. But let’s not make this a political post. Instead, let’s revisit President Hinckley’s October 2001 General Conference talk “The Times in Which We Live,” which opened with these memorable lines:
I have just been handed a note that says that a U.S. missile attack is under way. I need not remind you that we live in perilous times. I desire to speak concerning these times and our circumstances as members of this Church.
Another General Conference is coming up in two or three weeks. Will any speaker address our suddenly troubled times as directly as President Hinckley did? Or will we get the same old set of recycled topics and stories? My suspicion is Pres. Hinckley’s remarks, dated as they are, are more relevant and more helpful for us in 2025 than anything we’ll hear next month. Here’s another quote:
Out of that vicious and ugly attack [the Sept. 11 attack] we are plunged into a state of war. It is the first war of the 21st century. The last century has been described as the most war-torn in human history. Now we are off on another dangerous undertaking, the unfolding of which and the end thereof we do not know.
That was not the *last* war of the 21st century, with Trump (who ran as the peace president and lusts after a Nobel Peace Prize) trying to start one or two more. We might be in a de facto state of war with Venezuela as we speak, hard to tell. In any case, killing civilians of another country in international waters without any clear right to do so and with no due process is a flagrant breach of international law.
[Aside: Killing civilians in international waters with no clear right to do and with no due process is a violation of international law. It is at best questionable whether the military orders given to kill these civilians were and are lawful. Which raises two disturbing scenarios: First, a soldier, airman, or sailor may refuse to follow similar orders to kill civilians, which will then raise a tricky situation for the military. Second, a soldier, airman, or sailor (including officers up the chain) who gives or passes along orders for these killings and as well as those who execute them may be criminally liable under the Uniform Code of Military Justice. This is not hypothetical. If the name Lieutenant William Calley doesn’t ring a bell for you, go do some quick reading. The only person in the chain of command who is likely not liable if these are deemed unlawful killings of civilians is President Trump, as the US Supreme Court has granted almost absolute immunity to a US President for criminal actions committed while in office. End of aside.]
A particularly relevant point from that last Hinckley quote is that we never know how a war will unfold once it gets started. To wit, Putin thought Ukraine would fall in two weeks. Who knows what messy conflict Trump might unwittingly start and then be unable to stop?
Pres. Hinckley said more on this point:
Now we are at war. Great forces have been mobilized and will continue to be. Political alliances are being forged. We do not know how long this conflict will last. We do not know what it will cost in lives and treasure. We do not know the manner in which it will be carried out. It could impact the work of the Church in various ways.
A quick online search tells me there are four LDS missions in Venezuela, but they are apparently staffed almost entirely by Venezuelan nationals. Brazil (which Trump has also threatened lately, although no Brazilians have yet been killed by the US military) has over 20 LDS missions, staffed by both Brazilian nationals and US and other foreign missionaries. It is possible, even likely, that if Trump continues to stoke conflict with these and other countries, it will have a negative impact on LDS missionaries and possibly local LDS members as well. Again, Pres. Hinckley’s comments are relevant and timely. No doubt the tens of thousands of MAGA Mormons cheering on the recent military killings will be surprised, even offended, when those countries start returning the favor by picking on LDS members and missionaries.
Toward the end of his talk, Pres. Hinckley advised LDS to get out of debt, put some money in the bank, and have some food storage set up along with other necessary items. Again, I wonder if this prudent advice, more pressing in dangerous times, will be repeated in the upcoming Conference or not.
- Should an LDS apostle address our troubled times as directly as Pres. Hinckley did 24 years ago?
- Have you ever found yourself saying, “Well, maybe a few months of food storage in the basement and some currency stashed under the mattress isn’t such a bad idea?”
- Do you think this is all just a “nothing to see here, move along” episode?
- Or do you think this is going to get worse, maybe a lot worse, before it gets better?
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Wheat & Tares 
Current events really highlight the contrast between Mormon self-importance and their utter irrelevance in the world.
The situation will get worse. The conference may (should) have a talk about some aspect of what’s currently happening, but it will be lukewarm and easily interpreted in multiple ways, kind of like anything Trump says. I mean, did he or did he not incite Jan. 6 with his rhetoric? There are hundreds of other examples with virtually everything he says or promises that change or he denies after he said it.
As for food storage, I have a full pantry, but I wonder about even getting access to savings, social security, or a pension since I’m retired.
I mean, how can you trust anything when the narrative is always to blame it on the left, and Mormons are right there doing it, even if “the kid” was raised in a Republican, LDS home that loves guns. Since he’s not transgender, his roommate is, and he was radicalized by education. Yes, we have problems, and a lot of Mormons have no clue or are blaming anyone who is different from themselves and the conference will be about building more temples, following the prophet, and ignoring the problems of the world.
Sorry for being so cynical. I wish the prophet would speak with clarity, but I’m afraid it would offend too many and disrupt tithing donations.
“Should an LDS apostle address our troubled times as directly as Pres. Hinckley did 24 years ago?“
President Hinckley admitted his own lack of actual or revealed knowledge and vulnerability. I welcome honest messages from people trying to be helpful.
But it seems our church culture has pushed further and further towards exact obedience to the prophet, the prophet can see around corners, follow the prophet, and so forth — and did I mention exact obedience to the prophet? — so the thought of an apostle today actually addressing our times is scary in some ways. If he can do it like President Hinckley did, admitting a lack of knowledge and vulnerability, well, okay — but I don’t know if that is possible today.
I remember 9/11 very vividly. It united the country. Bush’s approval rating skyrocketed to 90 percent, the highest any president has ever received. I can’t imagine anything inviting the US now, not even another 9/11. I think the first presidency would do well to issue more warnings about perilous times. New rise of authoritarianism throughout the world, including the US. Climate change isn’t stopping. Russia is a massive geopolitical threat. Israel is committing genocide in Gaza, threatening to destabilize the entire Middle Eastern region. Housing is becoming increasingly unaffordable. Recession is probably on the horizon.
We have about a month of food storage. Although I’m not terribly concerned about a crisis arising in the US that would deprive Utah of easy access to food yet.
Trump is following the military strategy embraced by Obama which is to use drones and missiles to kill because the “intel” says so. It always seemed to me to be immoral to kill people in foreign lands because the “dots connected” and this made the persons a threat to the American people, despite being thousands of miles away. The only reason other nations don’t do that to us is because we are the big bully and will hit back harder. But imagine if Iran or China or Venezuela had the gumption to do to Americans in the USA what the USA does to foreign “targets” overseas.
We are in troubled times but I’m not sure these are especially troubled times. The 1960s have always seemed to me to be the worst decade. There were the horrific assassinations of JFK, RFK and MLK, the race riots and the escalation of the Vietnam War and all its atrocities and drafting of American kids to die in that war. And coming out of that decade the LDS leaders were alarmed – the General Conference talks from the early 1970s are available on the church website.
Personally, I think the current LDS leadership needs to change its middle of the road, we are neutral, we have nothing to say about world events positioning. This strategy of staying above the fray may be helpful to the global branding of the church but it comes at the cost of the leadership appearing to be distant and disinterested in real world problems and concerns.
The engagement must not be partisan. But rather the leadership ought to be honest and forthright about the wickedness that threatens our peace. Dishonest government is a great threat to the peace and prosperity of the nation – of any nation. For a good number of years the LDS leadership has generally been unsupportive of populist movements and usually avoided mention of them, whether these movements be in the USA, Canada or Europe (BLM did get noticed and Elder Oaks talked about it at BYU in Fall 2020). Populists movements arise because masses of people feel underserved. Large movements demonstrate a real discontent and a church leadership that shies away from recognizing this discontent makes itself unimportant and impotent.
Let me revisit my earlier comment and use different words.
I do not want an apostle to speak authoritatively and dogmatically, in the name of the Lord, unless the Lord actually instructs him in what to say. I don’t want an apostle to deliver a political message, or even a harsh follow-the-prophet message, while implying or pretending that his message is from the Lord, or even allowing members to think his message is from the Lord, when it isn’t.
However, if an apostle can show humility, and is willing to share something from his own observations and fears, and offer counsel that he thinks will be helpful to fellow sojourners in the land, and can say that he is offering his own thoughts from where he sits, I am open. Indeed, I think this is the reason for general conference talks.
But since our church culture wants to apply the imprimatur of the Lord himself to any talk given by an apostle, I am very leery of apostles speaking on political, cultural, or current events topics. Given our church culture, maybe I prefer the milquetoast that we have become accustomed to hearing.
Brad D, you say “the first presidency would do well to issue more warnings about perilous times” and I want to agree with you! But would they give the Lord’s perspective, or even an appropriate modern perspective, or would they share a provincial 1950’s perspective? Would they say anything, even if true, that might upset the “faithful” church base? or risk offending Mr. Trump? Or would the message be so carefully filtered that it loses its meaning?
Sometimes I say to be careful about what one asks for, because you might get it.
I suspect that there will be one explicit mention of the current threats to the U.S. But it will be “evenhanded” in that both the right and the left will be called out. Only the latter will be remembered when the last “amen” is spoken. Maybe staying above the fray would be better.
I expect vague mentions of our troubled times, such that everyone listening will hear what they already believe: the problem is other people.
This being the 30th anniversary of Proclamation on the Family, I’m expecting (dreading?) a lot of talks about the family and the Proclamation. I’m not sure how I feel about the church addressing current events in GC. On one hand, it would really demonstrate that they are paying attention to current events. It could show that the bureaucracy behind correlation is nimble and flexible enough to handle talks that are prepared within days rather than weeks or months of GC. However, I fear that, if they were to speak to current events, it might reveal that their politics are very different from mine and that might lead some to believe that people with my politics don’t belong in the church.
Go find in your friend group someone who disagrees with you. Don’t debate, discuss. Try and get into their head and understand why they think they way they do.
Remember at the end of the day, we’re all people who have been molded by our surroundings for better or worse so we should try to help heal wounds.
I loved Elder Kearon’s impassioned talk on refugees some several years earlier. That spoke directly to world events, but from a Christlike rather than partisan perspective. I would love to hear more talks in this vein.
The last conference talk that attempted to meaningfully and explicitly address a current global issue that I can remember was Elder Kearon’s talk (then of the seventy) on the refugee crisis. And not much came of that. Ever since April 2020 when it was business as usual, “pandemic shandemic, let’s celebrate the 200th anniversary of the first vision,” I have given up on expecting any kind of prophetic voice or prophetic critique (in the biblical sense) coming from general conference. To be fair, most normie Mormons seem to take great solace in the “don’t worry, just go to the temple – every day if you can” message coming from the big red chairs.
I also think RMN really thinks the second coming is coming, like this afternoon, so why rock the boat? I’ve said this before but I think it’s only a matter of time before the MAGA/Christian Nationalist movement turns on the Church. (By the way, Utah and Mormons aren’t very popular with maga at the moment). When this happens, the guys in the red chairs will have to respond. Until, it’ll be business as usual at general conference.
I believe that the First Presidency will continue to lead the vanguard in support of social progress and peace. I remember how it condemned racial discrimination throughout its history. I remember how it has stood for the empowerment of women throughout its history. I remember how the Brethren spoke out against the Third Reich. I remember how it has worked endlessly to use its wealth to alleviate hunger and suffering. I expect nothing less from them this year.
Vajraz2:
Every statement you made is the opposite of reality.
Is it sarcasm?
So much for not making this a political post. I agree with Loudly Sublime. Does most of the posts have to be so polarizing??? Dems did much damage to our economy and social fabric.
Really, it’s despicable how the Democrats passed laws to enable old people to live in dignity, workers to have days off, and education should not depend on wealth or race . Ensuring that no one would be denied the right to vote because of race or ethnicity? Unbelievable! And the cruelty of not letting little children work? What a bunch of Communists. The worst , though, is saying that women are equal to men and should be allowed the same benefits and responsibilities as men. I mean, really? OK, 10 out of 11 recessions since the end of WWII have been during Republican administrations (I’m not counting the Great Depression because….anyway, I’m not counting it). Just because job growth, employment, and GDP are lower during Republican Administrations, and Republican policies favor the haves over the have-nots doesn’t mean Republicans aren’t rood for the economy…or at least rich people’s economies. Also love the Republican stand on the First Amendment. Freedom of speech, press, and religion, so long as they reflect my speech, press and religion. So great.
I agree with those who say it will get worse. And unfortunately, I don’t see the LDS church speaking out against what is making it worse. James E. Talmage said this about the apostasy of the church established in the time of Christ (with my edits in parentheses)-
“When Constantine [Trump] the Great came to the throne [presidency] in the first quarter of the fourth century [2025], a radical change was inaugurated in the attitude of the state toward the church. The emperor [president] straightway made the so-called Christianity of the time the religion of his realm; and zealous devotion to the church became the surest recommendation to imperial [federal] favor. But the church was already in great measure an apostate institution and even in crude outline of organization and service bore but remote resemblance to the Church of Jesus Christ, founded by the Savior and builded through the instrumentality of the apostles. Whatever vestiges of genuine Christianity may have possibly survived in the church before, were buried beyond the sight of man by the abuses that followed the elevation of the churchly organization to secular favor through the decree of Constantine [Trump]… The spirit of apostasy, by which the church had become permeated before Constantine [Trump] threw about it the mantle of imperial [federal] protection and emblazoned it with the insignia of state, now was roused to increased activity as the leaven of Satan’s own culture flourished under the conditions most favorable for such fungoid growth…
Yet this church [American Christianity], reeking with the stench of worldly ambition and lust of dominance, audaciously claimed to be the Church established by Him who affirmed: “My kingdom is not of this world.”
Not only are we seeing the loss of what made America unique, we are witnessing in real time an apostasy of Christianity from what Christ actually taught, and my own faith tradition seems to be caught up in it as well.
I have been blessed with the capacity to have visions during meditation. I’ve climbed each step up the universe, opening doorways as I gained understandings.
I’ve been in the Celestial Realm for 2yrs now. Where all answers to life and creation can be found.
I’ve been blessed with visions of what’s to come. It will get worse before Christs 2nd coming.
Those holding the light within themselves will be saved.
It saddens me to see so many members especially in Utah being tricked by Satan.
They vote Republican and believe the lies they’re told. They’ve lost the light of God needed to decipher facts, truth and reality itself
Vajra2:
Thankyou for the clarification! Well said!