Did you know that in 1897 the Indiana State legislature voted on a bill that would have made the value of Pi equal to 3.2? Pi is the ratio of a circles circumference to its diameter. It can’t be altered by a law. Thankfully the bill failed. While me may now laugh at this, is the recent executive order signed by Pres Trump any different?
On Jan 20 2024 (the very day of his inauguration, somethings can’t wait!) he signed an order that proclaimed that there are two immutable human sexes. The order said that females are persons “belonging at conception, to the sex that produces the large reproductive cell” Males make the smaller cell. The only part that the order got right is that eggs are larger than sperm. But what about people who because of generic variants do not carry either eggs or sperm (together called gametes) ? Also, a fetus does not start carrying one of these gametes until about 6 weeks, so there is no definition at conception
While there are lots of variations, I’ll just give one example for males and females. . About 1 in every 650 male babies has two or more X chromosomes and one Y. These men have Klinefelter syndrome, and don’t produce sperm. These people may have testes and penises, but do not fit Trumps definition of a male.
Women who have only one X chromosome have Turners syndrome. They have no ovaries, and hence no large reproductive cell.
One can rack this up to Trump and his crazy advisors who don’t have a clue about biology (cue Sam Cooks song Wonderful World: Don’t know much biology). But what is the excuse of Prophets, Seers and Revelators that make the same mistake? If they get divine revelation then they must surely know that there is not a precise divide between male and female, and they could see around the corner to know that they will be on the wrong side of history (again!).
From the Church Handbook:
“Church leaders counsel against pursuing surgical, medical, or social transition away from one’s biological sex at birth.”
“Gender is defined as the biological sex at birth”
So what about the 1.7% of babies whose sex is not apparent at birth? For an average ward, there would be three intersex people. That is more common than having red hair! These babies are often born with both ovarian and testicular tissue, and can be classified as both male and female. These are people who’s gender will be chosen by the parents wishes and doctors recommendations. The handbook says they should consult with their Bishop, who may only be a plumber, so may know a lot about female plumbing???
I’ve heard stories of a “male” missionary returning from “his” mission, only to discover he does not have testis, but ovaries. He transition, and lost his priesthood. A intersex baby whose parents (or Bishop!) guessed wrong. (I have no reference for this, just an internet story from years past)
This gets really complicated, as if they go by chromosomes, there will be a whole lot of females that find would they are male. And then there are people with XY (male) chromosomes but have ovaries. This does not fit with what the Trump administration, nor the LDS church define as male and female. Again, when you are agreeing with Trump and his policies, you are on the wrong side of history.
As the proud grandfather of a transgendered grandson, I follow the churches position closely, and am glad he has left the Church and can live a full life without the ignorance of literal centenarian Church Leaders. Now he is fighting Trump to get his male passport back!
Your thoughts?
Wheat & Tares 
The medical evidence is getting pretty significant to support the idea that gender is more complex than just what you have on or in your body, including your DNA. This is a great post.
The church is double-minded on this issue of science vs. religious tradition. Nelson has mocked the big bang in conference and also affirmed that Adam was a real man who walked the earth. Then recently the church posted an essay that we follow science. These positions are incompatible.
I garnered some evidence about the Trans challenges recently on my blog, even though I don’t update it very often:
Thanks for a great post, BishopBill.
Bill, I understand the desire to pick at the Church’s inconsistency on gender and sex, but I don’t think the points you are making are all that helpful. Being intersex and being trans are not the same thing, though I’m sure that many intersex people can and do experience gender dysphoria. The trans people I have been closest to transitioned in their late 30s and 40s after living as men for decades and fathering children in the process. None of them ever mentioned being intersex (and I am very confident at least two of them would have confided that in me). Their self-perceived identity was independent of their chromosomes.
Your argument can be read to suggest that transness rests on being intersex which is just not true. I don’t think that’s what you meant, and perhaps the research Matt points out provides another scientific basis for transness, but in bringing up the topic they way you have, the reader can just as easily conclude, “Okay, intersex people really do exist and they can be trans, but unless you are intersex, all you trans people are just mentally ill running and around in the wrong clothes.”
“The church is double-minded on this issue of science vs. religious tradition. Nelson has mocked the big bang in conference and also affirmed that Adam was a real man who walked the earth. Then recently the church posted an essay that we follow science. These positions are incompatible.”
President Nelson didn’t deny the big bang per se. He suggested that big bang alone could not explain the intricacy of human life. Also, Adam and Eve walking the earth as real individuals is easily compatible with evolutionary science, IMO. The explanation rests in the notion that the sacred cosmos has many divisions.
BB
I would agree that whatever revelatory knowledge that RMN thinks he is getting from God does makes him “surly” and it “surely” does seem like something in the wiring of the heavenly hotline to 40 N Temple has been disconnected. Can’t tell if it is genetic or environmental.
Not a cougar, reread bills post. He didn’t say trans and intersex are the same. He said gender and sex are more complicated than MAGA and conservative religion try to pretend they are. Two separate examples of where people are getting BOTH sex and gender wrong.
It is complicated and some people are afraid of things they don’t understand. It is easier to give in to fear than it is to buck up and try to understand someone that is different than you. I admit, I struggled to understand my lesbian daughter. I instinctively understood love from my own perspective. I love a man. Easy for me to understand other women who live a man. Not quite as easy to understand that kind of love between two women. But on the other hand, I also struggle to understand my straight daughter. I checked out my man’s suitability as a partner, as a father, and THEN I allowed myself to fall deeply in love with him. My straight daughter falls madly in love, and THEN discovers how deeply unsuitable he is, then breaks up, and does it again. Don’t understand that either. But I accept that it is different and love her anyway. And I SEE how much my lesbian daughter loves her partner. It is a forever love. And my trans adopted daughter, I don’t understand why she feels like she really is a woman, but all I have to do is watch her behavior for a while and I can see she fits better in a female skin than the male one she was given. (She is adopted because when her birth parents find out, they will disown her and I will still love her)
Yes, it can be hard to accept and try to understand people who are different. But if you love them first, you can learn to understand them. So, instead of reacting in fear of something you don’t understand, how about buck up and try a little love in your heart. (Since we are quoting songs today) If you can love first, understanding will grow. But if you strike out in anger based on fear, then you will never understand.
You are correct “Not A Cougar”, trans and intersex are not the same. What I was trying to say (but maybe not a clear as I could have) is that there are a lot of different variations that don’t fit neatly in the Church’s definition of “gender”, trans and intersex being two different variations.
I too have a transgendered grandchild, whom his family all love and support. As a child, she never fit in with peers at church, mainly because of being asbergers, and quit attending early on, as did her parents eventually. He, too, is trying to get his passport back.
The regressive anti-science positions that so much of the country is now embracing is frustrating and dangerous. It is even more troubling when the COJCOLDS lines up right behind
these positions, as in the new transgender policy that came out last summer.
Greg Prince has detailed explanations of all the different non-binary possibilities in his excellent book on this subject.
The great irony is: there are no human beings–including those of us in this conversation–who have not been sired by a father and born of a mother. For humanity to survive as a macro organism there must be Adam and Eve. And so, while we may categorize intersex traits as something other than male or female–it is only the combination of male and female the will propagate humanity. That is the plan of life.
Jack, so what? What is the irony of that?
Oh, Jack, please be careful — it may be true that a human male sperm and a human female egg can “propagate humanity,” but do you really want to suggest that intersex persons are not included in “the plan of life”?
ji,
Not at all. All are alike unto God.
E:
“What is the irony of that?”
That all of us who draw breath are deliberating over the evils of restricting sexual categories to those that propagate the species.
Move along, Jack. The species is propagating plenty. Our trans friends and gay friends aren’t some end of the world thing. And I know you now want to quote the Proclamation about some end of the world crap. Just move along. You are welcome to pick your fights, but saying widly stupid stuff about how our LGBTQ+ people are destroying the world when, like, other, powerful people are actually destroying the world is gross. Please get your icky mind out of here.
The Bible says pi is 3. 1 Kings 7:23.
Brian,
Regardless of what Jack said (or didn’t say), or even this subject in particular, you have an extremely nasty habit of telling people exactly what you think they’re thinking. I believe your track record is lacking and I kindly suggest either some serious recalibration on your part or to simply back off.
As far as the post goes, regardless of what politicians and the Church have said on the subject, for better or for worse, I still think science has way more to say on the subject that has yet to be learned.
Eli, Jack has already said what I said he would say in plenty of other places. Thanks for the comment though, I guess. Same with whatever other comment of mine you feel this way about. Grizzerbear, Jack, they have said plenty of things over the years that I am harking back to. Sorry for not digging all their old comments up every time as proof. Search for them if you want
They are there.
Brian,
I can’t recall him ever saying LGBTQ+ were destroying the world, and my memory isn’t at all bad, but I guess one could strongly imply that of any believer, whether or not that’s the case. I do think you read a little too much into what someone is saying, however, and since I’m not the first to have brought it up, it felt worth mentioning again.
I’ve received plenty of chastisement here from time to time. While I wouldn’t quite call it chastisement, it felt appropriate to pay it forward.
Might America be becoming more exclusive while the rest of the first world is trying to become more inclusive. As well as excluding gays, there are suburbs exclusively of mc mansions, even some where they are all the same colour. In my street there is not a mc mansion, there are not any two houses that look alike.
We are about to have a productivity summit. One of the areas being discussed is whether it is better for the economy to give $1000 to a poor family (it will get into circulation quickly) or to a billionaire who will hardly notice it and will not circulate it. We are looking at redistributing wealth more evenly, while trump in concentrating it in the hands of those who already have more than they need.
My wife and I choose to live in an inclusive society (neither of us were born in Australia or spent our youth here. In our short street there are 2 Muslim families, and one Polynesian family, and 2 Asians, living in harmony.
We had a federal election in march and re elected the Labor party (to the left of democrats) while halfing the conservative party. Trump would not be elected in Australia. Why was he elected there? The Labor party now has more women MPs than the opposition have altogether. Our Prime minister lives in the official residence with his finance, our minister for foreign affairs is a gay, Asian woman. We are a much more inclusive society. During the election the conservatives raised trans sports women once and then stopped. They did the same with reducing the public service, and stopping working from home. These were seen as trump lite and condemned and they lost votes.
It is mid winter here, it is sunny, temp 12 to 23c.
We have just come back from delivering meals on wheels. Tomorrow we have booked a whale watching cruise.
I think I’m most impressed by the pi character in the URL.
You sound like a great grandfather Bishop Bill. If my son, daughter, or nephew or niece were trans I’m quite certain that my parents would disown them. What science has revealed on gender is truly fascinating. We need to adjust our cultural norms accordingly. I’m happy so much progress has been made on same-sex marriage. It has reached a point that it really is no longer controversial in the US. But perhaps because of that, the backlash against trans people has been all the stronger by the homophobic base. They know they can’t win on same-sex marriage so they hate extra hard against the trans community.
I get tired of the cryptic transphobes, too, who cloak their fear and hatred of trans people in religious rhetoric (sorry you don’t love trans people until you accept and celebrate then for who they really are) and ridiculous logical fallacies. News flash. Trans people can also get pregnant. Who knew! And then those who rise to defend the transphobes as the true victims. You guys are just transphobes as well. Thanks for telling it like it is, Brian.
“. . . you don’t love trans people until you accept and celebrate them for who they really are. . .”
I view all people as eternal beings–children of a loving God–spiritual vessels of light and truth, precious beyond price, who have come here to gain further light and knowledge. That’s who all of us really are regardless of our differences.
I find the mental gymnastics on the trans question to be fascinating. The argument being that because biological aberrations exist then it is normal and society should accept that a biological male can demand to be treated as female and vice versa. This argument seems very deficient to me and lacking intellectual rigor.
Where biological aberration exists it makes sense for society to be fair to those affected. Where the genetic evidence is “normal” then fairness dictates that the DNA is supreme, and why? Because law rests on evidence and DNA is as about as solid of evidence we have to establish identity.
For reasons I wish I better understood, the trans question has cause people to flip morality. Used to be that one would find abhorrent a man punching a woman. But this past Olympics two biological males competed as women and punched their way to gold medals and people defended them!
And of course we also used to find abhorrent that a man would in be a women’s locker room. But the seminal trans case in the USA is that a demonstrable, fully endowed, man did this as a “woman swimmer” and people defended him!
By the way, a women sprinter has never broke the 4 minute mile barrier yet the top high school boys all run a mile in under 4 minutes. This is fact. Yet again, we have the refusal by trans activists to accept this reality that males are intrinsically faster and stronger than females.
Disciple, trans activists don’t deny that men have inherent athletic advantages over women. What you are ignoring is that most athletic federations have specific guidelines for the participation of trans women, and that those usually include hormone treatments that very quickly remove many of the advantages that the athlete had and make them more similar to an average female athlete. I think for some sports there may be advantages that can’t entirely be erased, which is why I would allow the individual sport governing bodies to make their own rules, and why I think this question is slightly more complex than the most vociferous trans rights activists would have you believe. But, you don’t seem to have much interest at all in the inclusion question and instead prioritize your notion of fairness over all else, to the point that you use false information to advance your argument.
There were no men competing against women in the 2024 Olympics. The two cases you are referring to involved women who are not transgender. There is speculation that they may be intersex women, but if true, there is no public information about the precise nature of their intersex conditions, as it should be. They have lived their entire lives as female and think of themselves as women, yet you insist on confidently referring to them as men. Based on what?
You suggest the law should be based on DNA. For perspective, Russell Nelson was a practicing doctor before we knew about DNA. This is a very recent part of human history. What of intersex women with androgen insensitivity syndrome, who develop female bodies in spite of having XY chromosomes? The law would have treated them as female for most of human history. Are you suggesting that for the last few decades, the law should now treat them as male? Force them to use men’s bathrooms? The whole point of the original post, and in particular bringing up the big variety of intersex conditions that exist, is to suggest that gender is more complex than any single binary indicator. Those who insist on rigid binaries must grapple with these.
Quentin,
Khelif is a proven man – XY – chromosomes (his DNA testing has been leaked). Both Khelif and Lin Yu-Ting, the other Olympic boxing medalist, refuse to compete in competition where a cheek swab is required to participate. College swimmer Lea / Will Thomas fully matured as a man and there is no indicate she / he underwent hormone treatment before competing against and defeating woman swimmers. The high school boys that have claimed track championships running against girls also show no evidence they of being neutered. They simply claimed a biological advantage and used it to beat women.
This is clearly unfair and dishonest behavior. And yet a vocal faction embraces the dishonesty! Why? How did it happen that defending men beating up women became a political cause worth advocating?
If a man in his private life wants to feign being a woman, so be it. Same for the woman choosing to pretend to be something else. The issue is how to address the friction of public accommodation for personal dishonesty. And observe that per legal standards, DNA is biological fact. In a court of law it will not matter what one claims to believe. It matters what one biologically is. Such brutal honesty may sting but it is necessary if a people and society wish to avoid the cultural poverty of absurd superstitions.
It’s always important to know the details of first-hand accounts. I recommend *Dictates of Conscience: from Mormon High Priest to My New Life as a Woman* by Laurie Lee Hall. So much attention is put on the sports angle, but what about a transwoman who gives up so much “success and power” to transition like Laurie Lee Hall?
A Disciple, there is no conclusive proof that Imane Khelif or Lin Yu‑ting are genetically male. You’re peddling conspiratorial nonsense, and you’re doing far more damage than you realize.
The broader idea that men are undergoing gender reassignment surgery so they can do better at sports would be laughable if that kind of ignorance were as harmless as, say, believing the earth is flat and rests on the back of a tower of giant turtles. But the fearmongering about trans people creates real pain and has cost a great many lives. Stop hiding behind faux concern about women’s sports when it’s clear that you’re just pathetically trying to dress up your bigotry in ways that make it seem more palatable.
Seriously, knock it off. You’re not fooling anybody.
Fun fact: there are more pictures of Trump with Epstein than transgender athletes in the USA.
As a parent of high school competitive runners, A Disciple is typing things that are either simply untrue or presenting the information inaccurately. A simple internet search is all it takes.
I’ve asked him before and he’s ignored me but maybe today’s my lucky day. Are you obtuse and spreading misinformation or are you intentionally spreading disinformation? Neither response is admirable.
Disciple,
You responded with a laundry list of trans athletes, about which you could not possibly know the details of what treatments they have undergone. You did not respond to my example of a known intersex condition, androgen insensitivity. It’s a case where a person could be anatomically female and not learn until she is an adult that she is intersex and happens to have a Y chromosome. That that suddenly make her a “proven man”? The problem here is that you want to argue that “DNA is a biological fact” but focusing completely on the presence of a Y chromosome and ignore the nuances of the contents of those chromosomes. DNA a whole lot more complicated fact than you seem to be willing to admit. It’s really unfair (and offensive, frankly) to refer to Imane Khelif as a “man punching women”. She has lived her whole life as female. If it’s true she has a Y chromosome, it’s possible she is an intersex woman, but we don’t and can’t know for sure given the publicly available information. This comment section began with some comments about the relevance of intersex to this whole discussion, and you’re proving the point: it’s relevant because some people’s ideas of gender are too rigid to even make room for intersex conditions.
A Disciple is right about Lia Thomas and the two biological boys from Connecticut. Their inclusion in women’s sports broke the hearts of many young women. And as a father of five daughters I would’ve been hopping mad if any of those young women had been my girls. That said, while it’s true that issues surrounding sex and gender can be complex — and that we should seek to be as inclusive as reason and propriety dictate — I fear that this could become the sort of thing that we’ll be splitting hairs over ad infinitum. And so even though the implementation of guidelines may seem rather arbitrary–given the complexities involved–the lack of clear guidelines could make the whole business so arbitrary that a biological man could actually follow all the rules for inclusion in women’s sports and qualify without even identifying as a woman!
This is only an issue in America. In inclusive societies people are respected for who they are and sporting bodies take care of their sport. Not a political issue.
Whale watching was an adventure. We saw one breach, a couple blow, 3 or 4 dive with their tails out of the water, and a couple laying on their backs, with their fins in the air.
But we were in a 10m catamaranfor 3 hours, and there was a 4m swell. They sold sea sickness pills, and supplied sick bags. An adventure.
Geoff,
Point taken–I wish the issue was less politicized in the U.S.
But as a token of clear distinction between the sexes — however politicized or “un” — it was in Australia that a team of 15 year old boys beat the Matildas–7 to 0.
John Oliver does a wonderful expose on his YouTube show, which I invite all to watch, on the non-harm that trans in women’s sports is causing. Total boogeyman. Total made-up nonsense.
Quentin wrote:
“It’s a case where a person could be anatomically female and not learn until she is an adult that she is intersex and happens to have a Y chromosome. That that suddenly make her a “proven man”?”
Of actual edge cases – and Lea / Will Thomas was not an edge case but simply a man who decided he could win at swimming by beating women – guidelines and prudence are needed. This is similar to how the Supreme Court decides cases – apply tests and arrive at a reasonable outcome. And to emphasize, these determinations matter where distinguishing gender matters, with athletic competition being the obvious situation. But biological genetic identification also matters as an issue of public record – observe that when the remains of an unidentified person are found, identify is confirmed genetically and not by what the person declared or assigned their gender to be.
(1) If the person is XY then the person IS NOT female.
(2) If the person is XXY then the question becomes about what is the dominant sexual expression, specifically does the person have testes and are they or have they produced testosterone?
The issue of testosterone and puberty matters greatly as testosterone has a huge impact on muscle and skeletal development. It is not just the active presence of testosterone but a male who passes through puberty will be stronger than a female even if the level of testosterone fades. This is why genetic and hormone testing are needed for world class athletic competitions. Athletes who refuse to participate in such testing are showing they are unqualified to compete.
Finally, there is a curious mindset that if a person is not 100% male then they qualify as female. Why is that? To me the female division is already a special class authorized by law. I do not understand why it is simply presumed that a person who does not match 100% of what is male gets to claim to be female or otherwise compete as female.
Brad D,
So a men competing women and claiming medals that would otherwise go to women is not harmful?
Why have a female division at all in athletic competition? Why not just have the men and women compete together and let the best athlete win? I would greatly appreciate your thoughts on this question. Why does Title IX and women sports matter? Why do we not require women to compete against men? What would happen if that were the case?
By the way, did you see the fact I wrote that no women has EVER run a mile in under 4 minutes but the top high school boys every year run a mile in under 4 minutes. So you do understand that if women had to race against men that at the top level of competition the men would always win. Is that what we want? What do you think?
“By the way, did you see the fact I wrote that no women has EVER run a mile in under 4 minutes but the top high school boys every year run a mile in under 4 minutes. So you do understand that if women had to race against men that at the top level of competition the men would always win. Is that what we want? What do you think?”
This is unequivocally false. Since 2015, 20 high school boys have run a sub-4 minute mile. That’s 2 boys per year. The fastest HS female runner is around 4:20 mile. These boys are clearly outliers. You are trying to make it sound like a sub-4 minute mile is a thing. This is the equivalent of me saying that the most ambitious women in the world have orbited space for 11 minutes. Yes, a few women did this. They are anomalies. Aside from Katy Perry, it’s simply not a thing.
The time to letter for a HS boy is 4:40 and let’s be real, most boys will NEVER achieve that. Lettering in track and XC is very difficult. My son runs on a CA HS team that hosts the largest XC meet in the country. A member of his team is the 7th fastest boy in CA. His fastest time is 4:10. Not even close to sub 4 minutes. My son’s time is 4:47 meaning that there are girls that can run faster than he can. I run half marathons and there are tons of women that finish ahead of me. There are also girls that can run faster than you I would imagine. Not sure how this is a flex to you.
But so what? Why do you care? My son LOVES running. He hopes to run at university. He’s competitive. All season he was tracking with the fastest freshman at his rival school. In their last race together, they joined hands when they crossed the finish line. For my son, it’s more than just bragging rights. It’s about relationships. He’s happy to run with anyone. He just feels like running.
So the real question for you is, why do you prioritize winning over inclusiveness? Does Jesus give a f*ck about gold medals? Your focus on winning gives off major Uncle Rico vibes. You could have been a contender and all that.
I’ll ask again: Are you a misinformation junkie or a disinformation junkie?
Last comment and I’ll bow out at 3.
A Disciple, by responding to you we recognize your position. You’ve shared it before. We are good. You don’t need to keep sharing it. The downvotes are your chance to read the room. We simply disagree. You might find a sympathetic ear on JK Rowling’s blog.
I think trans participation and women’s sports is an issue that requires some time, thought, and process.
I did read an article once wherein a representative of a sports organization posited the idea that men and women could compete together but would be separated into groups based on ability. Think along the lines of boxing with welterweight, heavyweight, bantamweight, etc. In this way all would be competing fairly with no bias.
Once upon a time the hot issue was the war on Christmas. …which was also a total non-issue but there’s a reason these things are called “wedge” issues. They’re meant not to address any serious concern but to pique interest, rouse emotions and set populations against one another.
You don’t have to try very hard to smell them out.
Now trans athletes is whipping people up into a frenzy and, most specifically, not tying to solve any underlying problem. We can choose to let these things steal our attention and emotions. (They’re always emotional issues). Or we can recognize them and reject them.
The issue of small vulnerable populations in the larger normative population certainly is an issue we should be addressing ourselves to with compassion and intelligence in a spirit of inclusion. The 100 or fewer amateur and professional trans athletes that are whipping this society up into a frenzy — and not by their own volition — shouldn’t be dividing us.
My final comment as well.
Disciple twice responded to my points about intersex conditions by complaining about trans women in women’s sports, which has little to do with the point I was making. I’m not here to debate questions about sports because I don’t think that was at all what this post was about. My intersex example was an attempt to ask those who would deny the validity of the psychological aspect of gender (the transgender experience) to at least consider the possibility that gender is complex at the biological level as well (intersex conditions). Making everything about just the Y chromosome is an oversimplification that ignores everything humanity has learned in the last 30 years since we went deeper than counting chromosomes and decoded the actual human genome. To hold to old ideas because they better suit one’s world view rather than reconsiering one’s worldview in light of new knowledge is a deliberate choice to live in the past.
To be clear I didn’t mean that trans athletes were behind any of this in the second paragraph. I meant they’re being exploited by others as the wedge.
1) All the Trump-supporter, conspiracy-theorist, transphobes on here could care less about women’s sports and they know that. 2) No one becomes trans simply to compete in women’s sports. 3) Transitioning processes to transgender affect athletic abilities of trans-women leaving them less athletic than before. 4) Trans women competing in women’s sports are by and large accepted by their athletic peers (it is only the frothing-at-the-mouth, right-wing conspiracy crowd who obsesses about this). 5) There is zero statistical evidence that trans women are depriving medals to cis-gendered women in athletic competitions.
Just like the definition of species is fuzzy, so is the concept of sex and reproduction. It’s a wild world out there.
Among our ancestors are Neanderthals and Denisovans, as well as several unidentified hominins. But yet we are still human.
Thought I would mention that there are cases of women who are “genetically male” giving birth. Which seems like a female thing to me. Maybe some people want the fertility police to do invasive examinations on those they deem not womanly enough. Busy creating new “lepers” Some people are barely out of the mindset of men planting seeds in woman’s flower pots, yet here they are mandating unscientific definitions about biological sex.
Also thought I would mention feto-maternal microchimerism. Male fetal cells can travel across the placenta and wind up in all sorts of places including the mothers brain. What this means, who knows. But it’s the 21st century, so maybe we can update some concepts.
(And like people who don’t know who won the WNBA, NWSL, or Women’s World Cup. etc etc, actually care about women’s sports.)
As fun as it is to argue about a few dozen athletes . . . .
I’d like to take a moment to redirect some thoughts away from the few and towards the many. There are something like 1,600,000 trans people in the United States. As one of them lives at my house, I thought I’d share a few experiences:
Trans kids not only can’t play on sports teams, but they can’t use the bathrooms they’d prefer at school. There’s possibly a non-gendered bathroom somewhere in the school, but think back to your high school days. How convenient would it have been if you were only allowed to use a single bathroom in the school? Trans kids are choosing not to drink anything to be able to avoid the bathroom for 7 or 8 hours a day at school. And, of course, they can’t use the bathroom at an LDS church either, unless they get a chaperone to clear the bathroom for them and stand guard. Perhaps we could just make them wear a big scarlet ‘T’ they could wear whenever they enter the building.
Trans kids can’t get any gender affirming medical care in Utah anymore. Never mind that the study on the topic commissioned by the Utah legislature found (to the surprise of no informed person) that gender affirming care is overwhelmingly positive for the health of trans kids. Until recently doctors in Utah were available to help manage care that was available in Colorado. Because of changing political climates, the practices in both Utah and Colorado dropped us this summer. Now gender affirming care for minors is unavailable in Utah and every state that touches Utah. No country can claim to have the greatest healthcare system in the world while also forcing me to drive 9 hours (each way) to get my kid to a doctor.
Trans students can’t live in the housing they want to at Utah colleges. The vast majority of college students aren’t minors anymore, so these are adults. So, yes, the dude with the beard named Scott is only allowed in the girls dorms. This only applies at state run schools in Utah, which is pretty much all of them, or, you know, the trans kids could see how they fit in at BYU.
Trans kids CAN get their name and gender changed on their birth certificate in Utah. However, they’ll need a guardian ad litem for the process, which is basically a lawyer that represents the kid to make sure we don’t have an epidemic of parents coercing kids into changing their names legally. The state gets to claim that there is only a minimal fee for the process, while requiring thousands of dollars of legal fees for the changes. But you can get a new legal name, birth certificate and drivers license with the correct gender marker on it. But what you *can’t* get is a passport that matches. So now the state of Utah and the federal government disagree on my son’s gender. (Upside: I guess he can’t register for the draft? Oh, wait, they’d kick him out of the military anyway.)
Trans kids and adults are not welcome to participate in our church meetings as they would like. When coming out as trans, my son was invited to attend the appropriate YM class. At the time he would still occasionally attend on Sundays and weeknight activities. That changed about a year ago. He’s now invited to girls camp. Unsurprisingly, he isn’t interested. The mental gymnastics of inviting him into participation openly, only to kick him out a year later has been particularly disappointing.
I could go on for quite a while, but at this point either you’re willing to listen and understand or you’re not. The idea that trans kids (or adults) are going through all of this on a whim, or for the attention, or to get into the girls’ locker room, or to win a swim meet, is frankly insulting. My son has a friend from an active LDS family who found out she was trans. Within 12 hours they disappeared her. She was pulled out of school and lost access to her phone and the internet. No texting, no discord, no email, no in-person sightings. They wrote physical letters and mailed them to her home, but never received a response. After more than a year, she is back. She still doesn’t have a phone, and won’t be attending the public high school this upcoming year. It’s not clear to me if she has the freedom to interact with friends. But she has been physically seen since returning from a year in some sort of institution. (And you know what? Still trans.) This is the reality that trans kids, particularly inside an LDS environment, live with. Will you be instantly ripped away from school, friends, family and contact with the outside world at age 16? Would you risk that for the chance to win a cross country race?
These are some of the realities of being a trans kid in Utah in 2025. Elected officials will villainize you. Strangers will protest you. Parents might send you away. Your church will kick you out. Your school will watch to see where you pee. And strangers on the internet will opine about your personal dishonesty.
I’d close with a parting shot about how Jesus said love everyone, but we all know that some people have already decided that they can love certain groups without listening to, understanding, or believing anything they say.
As long as Trans Men are not forced (allowed) into Women’s Sports – live your life, do what you want. I simply don’t care.
A Disciple: “Used to be that one would find abhorrent a man punching a woman. But this past Olympics two biological males competed as women and punched their way to gold medals and people defended them!” You’ve evidently never watched the BSG episode Unfinished Business which is perhaps the most romantic television ever aired and is centered on a boxing match between a man and a woman.
There’s a book by a neurologist that I found illuminating on the reason one’s biological sex doesn’t match the sex they believe themselves to be, and that’s because brain development and genital development don’t occur simultaneously. Every fetus starts as female. Every apostle of the church, every commenter on this thread, and every one of our fathers and brothers were in a female body as an embryo. Only during the course of fetal development does one’s biological sex change. But sex identity resides in the brain and is affected by hormones as well. It’s not as simple as “penis = male” to the entire person. The book was referenced in the graphic novel Genderqueer, but I can’t remember what it was called off the top of my head.