“May you live in interesting times.” As our times get more interesting, that line isn’t so funny anymore. One hundred days of Donald Trump 2.0 has led to a falling stock market, a shrinking economy, and rising interest rates, an ugly combination known as stagflation. There are wars and rumors of wars, not just the big one you are thinking of (Russia-Ukraine) but some little ones, too, which always threaten to become bigger wars: Israel-Hamas in Gaza; India and Pakistan, two nuclear powers, ready to start fighting again in Kashmir; China conducting really large-scale military exercises all around Taiwan; and a ragtag bunch of Houthis with drones and missiles, quite successfully harassing merchant shipping as well as US Navy ships at the south end of the Red Sea. Like wildfires in California, it suddenly seems like 21st-century wars start easier and last longer.
I’m no doomscrolling prepper, but it’s worth a quick review of Mark 13 to see what it has to say about our suddenly more interesting times.
- “Do you see these great buildings? Not one stone will be left here upon another; all will be thrown down.” These were the chilling words Jesus spoke as he and his disciples sat watching the Twin Towers around the year 2000. No one believed him. Something like that.
- “Beware that no one leads you astray.” He warned us about the Big Lie.
- “For nation will rise against nation and kingdom against kingdom …” Two thousand years ago, there were no nation-states (what we often call “countries”). It was a few large-ish empires and a wide assortment of petty principalities, variously governed. It’s easy for us to narrowly define “war” as armed conflict between two nation-states or countries, but violent ethnic strife and civil wars fall within the broader definition of war. Remember, Judea was a Roman province: the Jewish War was, in fact, a civil war within the Roman Empire. Ethnic and political strife certainly seems to be on the rise around the world. The coming Trump Slump, which might well be global, not just domestic, will certainly amp up global strife at all levels. Someday we here in America might be talking about the Second Civil War.
- “When they bring you to trial and hand you over …” If you’re lucky, you get a trial. It is now commonplace for not just foreigners coming into the US but also citizens leaving and returning to scrub their phones of any discussion (invariably negative) of Trump. It seems like border control agents have morphed into political agents who view criticism of Trump as a traitorous act that merits refusal of entry (for non-citizens) or heightened interrogation (for citizens). Don’t get me wrong: I have a fairly high opinion of local law enforcement, but what’s happening to federal agencies and agents is disturbing. Lots of lawyers have resigned from the Justice Department, but I haven’t heard of any federal agents who have resigned due to ethical concerns. It’s not clear that federal agents have any ethical concerns. The only “misconduct” currently of concern to federal law enforcement agencies seems to be prior lawful investigations of wrongdoing in the first Trump administration.
- “But when you see the desolating sacrilege set up where it ought not to be (let the reader understand) …” Most informed biblical commentators see this as a reference to Caligula’s attempt to have a statue of himself erected in the Jerusalem Temple in 54 AD, or possibly Roman standards erected on the ruins of the temple in 70 AD. Remember, Mark was possibly written in the 60s, *after* the Caligula incident, or more likely in the 70s, after both incidents. For this passage in Mark, desecrating the temple was the bright line to be crossed. What is the modern bright line to be crossed? Have we crossed it yet? What is our modern “desolating sacrilege,” either from the point of view of the country or of the LDS Church?
- “Woe to those who are pregnant …” Millions of individual/couple decisions along the lines of “this is not a good time to get pregnant, not at all” do, in fact, show up in country-level demographics. Women in Russia, for example, have largely stopped having children.
- “False messiahs and false prophets will appear and produce signs and wonders, to lead astray, if possible, the elect.” There is lots of fake news and propaganda (thank you, social media) but not many fake messiahs and fake prophets yet. Unless I missed one? Memo to LDS leaders: turns out it is not that hard to lead astray the elect.
Maybe you think we are slipping into an Age of Global Chaos and maybe you don’t. It does seem like we are headed for interesting times.
Here’s a separate “state of the blog” question: What do you want to talk about? What is relevant to your life at the moment? I find the current political and economic events, both domestically and globally, to be more pressing and frankly more interesting than any LDS events. It’s getting harder for me to come up with LDS topics or events worth posting about and discussing. What do readers think? Do you lean towards having narrower posts and discussions mostly about LDS-centric topics? To broader religion topics? Lifestyle topics about life in the 21st century in general? Or economy and politics and rumors of wars on the global stage?
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Wheat & Tares 
The lack of priesthood for women is still worth talking (raging?) about and IMO the right-leaning political stance of the LDS church. While it is not overt, the absence of speaking out about the wrongs of the current administration indicate covert support.
To be honest, the idea that there are suddenly a lot of wars right now is a bit narrow.
There’s a saying that goes something like:
“WW2 never ended, the fascists just joined team America and relocated the war to Latin America, Africa, and more of Asia and the Middle East where it has continued ever since.”
The only unique thing about the violence of the present I guess is that normal people are now a lot more aware of the human suffering thanks to more advanced communication technology and social media.
In the 50s, it didn’t matter that American pilots were strafing civilians in Korea, or that death squads trained in Fort Bragg were beheading the families of banana farmers in Central America because you wouldn’t find out about it till years later, if it all. Now you see images and near real time videos of Russians bombing apartment buildings or Israelis mutilating Palestinian children.
So I don’t necessarily agree that there is more wars and violence than before. But that there’s more of a collective acute awareness of it as well as the resulting psychic stress.
Being saved from a bullet has been heralded as a direct act of God by Billy Graham. For many that is a bona fide sign and many seem to believe the man in the red hat has the mandate of heaven. Whomever or whatever he represents, it is not Jesus.
At any point in history you could read the NT and then point to signs around you that the second coming is imminent. I know this because people have been doing exactly that from the day those things were written.
As for what I want to talk about . . . .
What I don’t want is more global and US politics posts. I know where to get those. The internet is full of them. And that includes all the posts that start with three paragraphs of complaining about something about Trump and then tying in an LDS theme. If a topic is germane to Mormonism you can come up with a better tie-in than going to the Trump well every single time. (Don’t get me wrong, I dislike Trump plenty, but there’s only so much of my life I want to spend on him.) Also, fewer AI generated bulleted lists.
Ok, I’ll quit being negative. What do I want? Things that W&T is uniquely positioned to deliver. There are very few places that have a collection of folks who are all connected to Mormonism in varying ways and degrees that are trying to reason out that relationship. Everyone here is connected to Mormonism. Many don’t participate formally anymore, but have family and friends that do. Most (all?) have renegotiated their relationship with the church in some way. A few are Mormon cousins (CoC and others) that serve as fascinating “alternate universe” LDS examples. I want more stories about women in the church, more discussion about LGBTQ issues in the church, more stories about mixed faith relationships (spouses, adults/parents, adults/kids, siblings, friends, etc.). More discussion of how these big topics play out in individual wards around the globe. More analysis of messages from church leadership. Stories of wards succeeding in some way. Stories of wards failing. Reminiscences of ways Mormonism was good in your life. Prognostications of where the church will be in 5 or 10 years (and some follow up in the future). Predictions of where you will be (religiously) in 5 or 10 years. In short, philosophies of men, mingled with philosophies of women.
One of the more interesting things I’ve seen recently was a comment from someone who is gay and remains LDS to someone who is also gay and is no longer LDS. His response was “I think if you’d had my experiences you might have stayed, and if I’d had your experiences, I might have left.” As I look at my relationship with the church and God, and how those change over time, I am limited by my experiences. I know what I know very well, but I miss a lot when I only have my own life to draw on. The diversity of everyone else’s lives at W&T adds much to my thinking. Don’t get me wrong, some of you are really wrong about some things (according to me!), but I still appreciate the value of the discussion (usually) from people I’ve never met.
I don’t mind W&T addressing the relationship between faith and politics when it’s relevant. I think it’s important that the faith angle is there in order to be within the scope of what I think W&T is. If it became a purely political or current events blog I might become less likely to come and read. I’ve already got columnists I read for those kinds of things.
These are intense political times we live in indeed. And I’m not optimistic about the geopolitical or global economic future. It is persistent puzzle to me as to why Trump is president again. After all he said did. It has made me think that I never really understood the US political landscape all that well. Now I have more sympathy with my friends from Turkey, Russia, China, and many other countries. These countries simply have toxic political systems and a part of the country upholds these systems because they are blind, fearful, and part of the problem. I guess the US can fall to authoritarianism as well. I guess I take comfort it is still not as bad as living in Russia or Turkey. But it is still scary.
On topics for W&T. I enjoy the political discussions. It is a unique place where I can have them with likeminded people with some diversity of opinion and thought. Facebook is no longer for me. And other places have too many people or are echo chambers. That said, however, the existence of W&T is to discuss Mormonism, so that obviously needs to be thrown in regularly. But I agree that politics is simply more interesting at this point.
Honestly, I think that politics has long been more interesting of a topic, for decades. I remember when I first stopped believing, about 15 years ago, that I interacted with the ex-Mormon community with the assumption that they had migrated politically the same way I had. From conservative believing Mormon to liberal non-believing Mormon. I thought it was just the natural progression. Boy was I wrong. The large number of conservatives and Trump-supporters in the ex-Mormon community has made me not feel so attached to it. Plus, honestly there are a lot of unhinged ex-Mormons that are simply too loud. I think that the ex-Mormon community sort of broke apart and lost its steam because of Trump. Trump divided the community, and quite severely. I remember at one point one of the members on the ex-Mormon subreddit declaring that he was going to open a separate conservative ex-Mormon subreddit out of frustration with all of the liberal views on the original subreddit. I have come to realize that I’m fine with people almost no matter their religious beliefs, with the exceptions of the occasional puritans and zealots (but they seem increasingly rare). The harder people to get along with are those who are political tribalists whose political views are diametrically opposed to mine. I can brush off my TBM mother-in-law talking about religion in her very TBM way. But I find it much harder to brush off vaccine skepticism or Trumpism, or even Putinism (my brother’s ex-wife is from Russia and is solidly Putinist, to the extent that she has repeatedly expressed racist sentiment against Ukrainians). Politics simply trumps religion in terms of how sensitive people are towards it and it commands a lot more of my attention and emotional attachment.
To me, the value W&T provides is the ability to read and discuss a variety of social and religious topics that are verboten in either ward or Mormon neighborhood settings. For example, try asking for a rational basis for denying women the priesthood in your local Gospel Doctrine class. Or explain to your right-wing bishop why you cannot support the current US administration. The juxtaposition of world affairs and related religious issues makes this forum interesting and unique.
As the Mormon Church moves inexorably to more orthodox and conservative positions on social and spiritual matters, there are many of us who are forced to disagree in relative silence or jeopardize our standing amongst neighbors, family, and work associates. The discourse here is non-threatening and generally collegial.
Christian evangelists (and increasingly Mormons) often misinterpret the timeline and predictions contained in Mark 13 to strike fear among their congregants. Using fear as a control mechanism is an unfortunate byproduct of all religions – particularly Mormonism. I view the chapter as offering hope and encouragement as we seek to emulate the teachings of Christ.
In summary, I cast my vote to maintain the diversity of thought contained in this forum. Continue to provide thought provoking discussions that combine world affairs and religion. Particularly as Mormons face the uncertainty of an Oaks regime, we need a safe place to express rational opinions.
What do I want to talk about? I do love a good Star Trek post. DS9 is the best Berman era show, but the best (to my great surprise) season of Star Trek is season 2 of the children’s animated show Star Trek Prodigy. And a new season of Strange New Worlds will air shortly. Some fear it is becoming too comedic (please do not turn into the Orville) but considering it’s opening with a Gorn episode, it needs to be followed by more light episodes.
That about covers it.
Ok, that other franchise dropped season 2 of Andor. But it’s too on point.. .
So I’m going to tune everything out, try to retain my sanity as the world burns down, by watching Star Trek and pretending the federation is in the future.
I agree with DaveW. I also love a good Mormon cultural history post. I want to talk about how the structure of the turn-of-the-century Personal Progress worked really well for my personality, but the current youth (my daughters included) are completely without direction.
It’s now been several years since changes (or adjustments as some leaders like to call them) were implemented by RMN. I would love to hear from people in different areas about how those changes are working in their ward trenches. How is the elimination of young men’s presidencies at the ward level working for parents and bishops? Is it better than it was before or worse? How is the new youth program going in your ward? How is promoting all youth into the AP and YW going? Is it an improvement? How is two hour church working? Of course we all love less church but are we seeing less engagement and could that possibly be tied to less time at church? How is ministering going? Is it really any different than home teaching and visiting teaching in your ward?
I have lots of thoughts about all of that, but I’m tired of mulling over what I think and want to hear from other people.
Thanks for the comments, everyone.
anon12, I certainly agree we have more access to real-time reporting on conflicts nowadays, and the media is happy to devote substantial coverage to a conflict — for a few weeks at least, until American viewers have moved on.
Dave W, always enjoy your comments. When I have a good LDS topic or event to post on, I go with it. I only end up with politics when I have to search “LDS church” to find a news story for a post starter. Then current events and politics gets air time. Which has happened more often lately, I confess.
DeNovo, yes the variety of views from posters and commenters is welcome to most readers. It takes work to keep it that way, though. The natural progression of group blogs and sites tends toward narrower thinking and discussion over time.
I agree with Dave W.,
I acknowledge that “current political and economic events, both domestically and globally, are very pressing”, and that all of the political posts on here are timely, relevant, well thought out, and well written. But that’s not why I come to this blog, and that’s not what makes this blog special, and excellent. There are a thousand other websites and places I can go to for discussions of politics and world events.
But there are only a couple of places I can go for a nuanced discussion of Mormonism, with participation from current, nuanced, and former members- and this blog is by far the best place out of all of them. That’s what makes this blog special and excellent, and why I keep coming here. I appreciate all the writers, and the commenters, for all of the thoughtful discussions here around Mormonism. Thank you and keep it up.
More “on the ground” or “front line” topics might be interesting. Last week I attended BYU commencement ceremonies and heard Oaks, Gilbert, and Uchtdorf speak. Oaks looked quite old and was shaking noticeably. Gilbert was himself but well spoken even if you don’t agree with him (Harvard and Stanford pedigrees, I can easily seem him in the Q12). The Silver Fox gave disappointing unprepared and wandering remarks. He’s lost his shine between the SEC fiasco and being booted from the First Presidency. I used to love him but now he’s like the rest.
My wife’s stake contracted by two wards but everyone thinks it’s a miracle because the wards are large again and the church appears to be flourishing as always. My in laws stake has more apostles than deacons (!) in the Avenues of SLC. All the wards in the stake send full families to a single family ward while empty nesters or older singles go to their assigned wards.
I genuinely love Wheat and Tares but lately I spend as much time on exmormon Reddit – lots of interesting topics there. Also I really enjoy when the OP authors here engage with commenters. Some are better at it than others. Also it’s unclear how commoners like myself can proactively interact or make topic suggestions to the W & T authors. These are a few random thoughts.
I am wondering if some of the people who mentioned a specific thing they would like to discuss would do a guest post. That might increase the variety around here. So, for those who think it is a Trump hating echo chamber, so write a post on what you would like to talk about. KLC, a post about how well RMN’s changes are working out. HokieKate, a post on personal progress compared to whatever they are doing now, and anyone else that wishes a particular discussion, how about getting us started on the conversation you would like to have?
I get sick of hearing about Trump and politics too, but I do think it intersects with the church and is something we should talk about. And although there are all kinds of places I can find discussions and commentary on Trump, there are not too many that talk about how MAGA changes Mormon culture and how to relate to our Mormon friends and neighbors who are into the Trump as anointed by God to save the world from trans folk and immigrants. So, to gripe about any post that starts out with the current political situation and how it relates to Mormonism is wanting Mormonism without the world Mormonism lives in.
I’d like to hear if the youth program rolled out in 2018 (ish) is actually working at the preteen and teen level. My hot take at the time was that it was supposed to be child-centric in the sense that the child defined the goals in 4 areas (Strength/Intelligence/Spirituality/?) , and then the parent primarily implemented it in conjunction with the youth leaders (and there is an activity list on the site to prompt ideas). The video example was of a child learning to read. The child set the goal, the mother and siblings helped tutor the child in practicing to read regularly, and then the youth group celebrated with the child at some point. The youth group may have participated in 1-2 reading sessions with the kid.
I am pretty sure that I am missing a lot of nuance – I haven’t been a parent/leader since 2020 and my awareness of what our youth & senior primary children are doing is only via scanning generic parental emails since then. I also had a lot of challenges in my life at the time, so I likely wasn’t fully paying attention (or paying the correct kind of attention).
But if I am right, then what was supposed to happen with all the “Come Follow Me” changes was that program administration of the gospel study AND senior primary activities shifted in terms of functional expectation into the mother’s domain under the “spiritual nurturing” heading to give the families (ie the mothers) the flexibility to plan more independent focuses of activities.
Amy, I would also like to know how dumping it back on mothers is working. Especially how is the church now helping kids growing up like I did with parents who were too busy surviving to do a lot with the children and parents who are themselves inactive. We had enough support through the church organization that it made up for total lack of church at home. I just feel like this new “home centered, church supported” system gives no support to the children of inactive or too busy parents. With the current system, I would have had so little support from church and no “home centered” church and basically grown up without the church in my life at all. The only message kids like me would get from church is that their parents don’t love them, because there is no “home centered” church at all. As far as I can see, the youth with inactive parents got abandoned by this lack of structure.
Also would like to hear from some bishops if they have time to be both bishop and YM president. How is that working, because it looks like they just added more to the bishop’s plate, while once again telling the youth that boys are so much more important than girls.
Amy, there is no program at all — we were promised a robust program for all when we dropped Scouting for boys, but we were deceived. If anything good is happening anywhere, that is likely an exception and a credit to the leaders there, but the “program” promised by SLC is a complete bust.
I believe I am speaking the truth — but I suspect some would charge me with heresy — even if they agree with me, they will say I cannot speak ill — but my purpose is not to speak ill; rather, it it simply to tell the truth.
I wish we could have meaningful dialogue among church members in church spaces, but our culture will not allow for such — I think this is a weakness in our church culture. Is our culture a potential discussion opportunity?
If there was such a discussion, and someone disagreed with my assessment, I would welcome it if they could change my mind.
Anna,
From my perspective, many Bishops are overwhelmed. His counselors end up filling gaps and some Bishops I know have called a YM’s President, they just call him by another title (“Activities Advisor”) to avoid catching heat from the Stake President. In our ward, an assistant executive secretary carries part of the burden.
Also, I agree with ji’s comment. Wards have been left to make it up as they go.
When I EQ President a few years ago, but well after the new youth program was implemented, the bishop at ward council directed the EQ and RS to each host an activity and to do something that would strengthen the youth as part of the activity. I asked the bishop in the meeting if we (EQ and RS presidents) could see the quad charts that all of the youth and children were supposed to do, and which leaders would use to help plan activities. The bishop told me that the leaders had been informed that they could no longer ask the youth to produce the charts, and therefore the leaders couldn’t use them to plan activities.
I think the whole youth program was a sham and a bust. Why do I say thay? I remember the training they did for it. The first vignette was for a child who wanted who wanted to make a chocolate cake their his or her father. The church gets to pick the examples, and first and last are more important. In the first, a child wanted to do something with a parent. Where is there church involvement in that? Where is a youth activity in that? In the last example in the training, as someone has already mentioned, a child needed help passing a reading test, and in the training they showed the family making flash cards to help the chjld. No youth activity anythere. Amy correctly observes: “The video example was of a child learning to read. The child set the goal, the mother and siblings helped tutor the child in practicing to read regularly, and then the youth group celebrated with the child at some point. The youth group may have participated in 1-2 reading sessions with the kid.” The child’s peer group at church was absent in the helping the child, as it was a family affair. The youth group helping the child is absent from the training, and maybe is guessed at. The bookend examples, chosen by the church, were a child cooking a cake with his or her father, and a child needing help academically with all support provided by the family. And these were the bookend examples for a child and youth program at church. Some of the examples in the middle of the training were not fleshed out at much, such as a priest-age boy who wanted an activity to make a move; this type of activity would and could be beneficial, but the youth was supposed to put his desires on his quad chart, and the leaders would help design activities, or help the youth design activities, using the quad charts. But according to my bishop, it was only a few months before the church (probably its lawyers) killed the quad carts, or at least forbade the leaders for asking for them. I would welcome any correction if I am wrong.
I am curious what the intent behind the programs was actually.
– I think it was in part to provide a BSA replacement for the boys (but I also think it failed because most of the boys whose mothers I knew just transitioned to the local groups).
– I think that the leaders wanted to create a more equal, flexible program for the girls at the same time that one was being created for the boys that cost roughly the same. I gather that there was some ward budget devoted to the BSA program that was supplemented by the fundraising efforts of the boys and parents themselves and that there was a smaller ward budget devoted to Activity Days for the girls that was expanded on when the boys’ program changed.
– I think that the Senior Primary and Youth programs are competing against the other youth programs from after-school clubs, library groups (in theory), the BSA/GSA programs, sports programs, hobby programs, media (digital games, TV/movies, and platforms) and other church programs (vacation bible school for example) with less bells and whistles (and less paid salary). Some families are also impacted by outside services such as Speech/Occupational Therapy and other services associated with health for the child directly – but also it might be a sibling or parent or grandparent requiring those services.
– I think the program was trying to compete for the attention and resources from a “spiritual” perspective and trying to connect kids and youth to God through lite Mormon theology. Those activities were usually avoided (as near as I can tell – but I don’t know).
In my area, the families running the branch had both parents in leadership which brought unique scheduling and coordination opportunities as well as an increased workload for the parents (especially the mothers).
Well perhaps I’m alone here but I’m here for all of the content!
I too would be interested in hearing more about the actual lived experience of the members on all sorts of topics. For me the topics that people want to call political really are more about human rights and how we want to function as a society and finding a Mormon angle to that doesn’t seem at all like a stretch. And, I can understand some people may be exhausted from worrying about what he’s up to today and want a break. Alas, I miss the days of only thinking about the President monthly.
There is a bit of a Mormon moment happening again (Lori Vallow trial, Rube Franke documentary, Season 2 of secret lives of Mormon wives, garment changes, Huntsman case, increased scrutiny on temple site approvals and the height of steeples, etc) and I’ve been surprised at certain topics not being covered here though I do understand we all have competing interests for our time.
The youth program is “set some goals, we won’t ask you about them” and also “have some activities”. The two are orthogonal. (That is, they don’t intersect at all.) The irony here is that the church failed to provide a ‘program’ of any sort but also wouldn’t support a ward inventing their own program. I suppose the hypothetical flexibility in the official ‘program’ here could be empowering, but the LDS church doesn’t do flexibility and empowerment. If wards were empowered, some of them would have some industrious YW/YM leaders who would have invented some sort of combination of BSA/Personal Progress/other stuff. They’d make badges, they’d have events to mark the completion of certain requirements, they’d have checklists. But we also know that this would have a good chance of immediately being stomped out as “not the program”. In a church where local congregations can’t choose who sits on the stand, can’t choose the length of their meetings, can’t choose their own lesson plans, can’t choose how many songs they sing, and generally aren’t supposed to think for themselves, there is no leadership on local levels.
In the LDS church “leadership” means telling the person below you to follow the person above you.
Four months into YW, my 11yo says no one has asked or talked about her personal goals yet.
She does a lot of great things with her school’s “7 habits” curriculum and Girl Scouts. The church is loosing its chance to influence and I’m ok with that.
I think, when a president, who 2/3 of Mormons voted for, is doing what he said he would, damaging America, and destroying trust in ìt, as fast as he can, it should be a topic of discussion on this blog.
If 3/4 of Mormons voted for Trump, but we also understand men favour him over women, can you tell whether 80 or 90% of Mormon men voted for this and only 50% of women? Are these figures available? How many of the 15 are still registered republicans? What does it mean to be a registered republican? How many GAs? Could a GA be a registered Democrat be a GA.
Does any leader who voted for Trump have any moral authority? Can thy claim to be capable of receiving revelation? The Church leadership had no prophetic advice to prevent trump, and has no prophetic advice on how to survive trump.
If you walk by evil without commenting are you complicit?
We are having a federal election here on Saturday 3rd. Before the 4 week election was called the more conservative party had been ahead in the polls. They came out with a few trump like policies and are now trailing in the polls. Hopefully, like the Canadians, we will reject the right wing.
What is it that Americans vote for trump, but the rest of the world rejects him.
Why would whatever % of Mormon men find a coloured woman with training for the job be so terrible that trump would be preferable. Imagine America with Kamila as president now?
Geoff-Aus: You hit the nail on the head. It’s the elephant in the room anytime someone talks about the church. For many of us, it’s why we couldn’t return after COVID. It’s also the reason many feel the church is a fallen organization because the prophet wanted us to wear masks and get vaccinated. He is that unspoken “it” we won’t bring up when we talk to a member that we care about but don’t want to be disappointed with. It’s the real disgust we feel when we hear the news and connect the dots with the Church while we wonder. It’s the disappointment we feel with our elected officials who are LDS who support his policies, don’t listen to the people, and brag about how they are protecting the Constitution.
I think we all dread that He is the reason David B. brought up Mark 13 and that He will fulfill it while the church goes merrily along with him because of his stand on an issue here or there, and he is good at calling his enemies out with names, labels, and lies.
We had federal election in Australia. The Labor party, which was in government, has increased it’s majority. The right wing party has been greatly reduced, and their leader has lost his seat. Just like in Canada last week. Part of the problem of the right was being associated with trump. He is poison to right wing parties overseas.
I do not understand why/how he could be elected by Americans but be poison to the rest of us. Why is there such a difference?
Is it that you are more religious? Shouldn’t be religious = being more moral.
Our prime minister is 60 years old, and the opposition leader was 54.
Geof-Aus,
Those are interesting questions. We know someone in Uchtdorf’s household made a donation to the Democrats. It’s probably safe to assume the older bunch lean Republican. I say this because the new transgender policy released in August in which transgender people are excluded from bathrooms and meetings of their preferred sex is very similar to politics in UT and ID right now.
I do keep a few FB friends that voted for him and will talk politics. They are completely unabashed about what Trump has done in office so far. They celebrate his first 100 days. They think he’s saving us money and avoiding debt and they think everything is going to be hunky dory. I can only imagine their sources of information are nothing more than propaganda. To be fair, I know that’s what they think of my sources of information.
I am a member of Mormon Women for Ethical Government. We try to educate people on finding accurate information (not commentary) and less biased sources of information with less political slant. Unfortunately, from the far right spot most members sit in today, centrist sources look extremely liberal. They avoid them and have no respect for them.
I do not know how to solve this problem. I have tried discussing these issues on FB, but mostly nobody really listens and it doesn’t change anything.
While I am devastated by the horrible damage Trump has done on our government and relationships and economy, part of me feels we deserve it because of the way a majority of us voted. Until each of those voters are personally negatively affected by Trump and his Toadies in Congress, they will continue to be proud of their decision. Until their are no goods to buy and they have no money they will keep on imagining Trump has saved them from the evil demented Biden. Even then they will likely cling to their own reality. Hopefully at some point the far right media will turn on Trump and his followers will begin to see the light.
Geof-Aus, it is hard to understand how people you go to church with are not bothered by this crook who got convicted of raping a woman and was convicted of paying off a prostitute he went to while his wife was pregnant with his child. There are facts we know that prove the man has the morals of a drunk selfish ally cat. And that statement reflects badly on the morals of drunk ally cats, because most of them have lots more compassion for their fellow cat than he does his fellow human.
But they watch the news channels owned and operated by rich oligarchs who want to destroy the governments ability to restrict their moneymaking by regulating how much poison they can dump into our environment, where they can drill for oil, and other protections for people. They want to destroy the government and with a Russian agent named Trump helping them, they are succeeding. So, those rich oligarchs have been telling these people government regulations hurt them. Socialized medicine is a horror story. Immigrants take their jobs and are all criminals. Trans women will rape their women in restrooms. Guys in drag are out to seduce their children into being gay. The government will take away their hunting rifles, then after there are no guns, a dictator democrat will turn the government communist. Blah blah lie fib exaggeration conspiracy theory blah blah. After years of this lying crap, even good people will vote for a known criminal as God’s anointed to save us from the big bad government. To you and I it looks really stupid that they are so afraid of a dictator that they vote the man who says he will be a dictator into office.
I know, even “understanding” this, I still can’t understand it. But then these people are brainwashed to the point of delusional. They are exactly who they are so terrified of.
I tried to say nicely that although I am sick to death of Trump, he is the elephant in the room of Mormonism and to not talk about him is just ignoring the elephant, but my family had a member on hospice expected to live a few more days and I couldn’t reframe from slapping people, so I just deleted it and hope someone else could say we need to talk about all the elephants in the room, right up to Utah’s governor who sold his soul because he didn’t have the guts to go against a man he knows is not good for America.
https://www.abc.net.au/news/2025-05-05/trump-dutton-federal-election-albanese-toxic-liberal-politics/105249448
An article on the Australian BC in the aftermath of our election about trump
Anna, Re the elephant in the Mormon living room.
“If you are neutral in situations of injustice, you have chosen the side of the oppressor.”-Desmond Tutu
“The darkest places in hell are reserved for those who maintain their neutrality in times of moral crisis.”-Dante Alighieri
“We must take sides. Neutrality helps the oppressor, never the victim. Silence encourages the tormentor, never the tormented.”-Elie Wiesel
As long as the Mormon church does not speak out against the evil that is Trump, we must assume it is complicit with him. There is no neutrality.
Confronted with British and French imperialism Jerusalem threatens to annex area C of Samaria! And also to terminate the EU Israel special relationship wherein Israel pulls out of the EU UN voting block.
‘Britain cannot be on the side of Hamas’: As the UK turns on Israel, one leader stand
The fall of Assad in Syria, the collapse of Hezbollah in Lebanon, the obliteration of Hamas in Gaza have triggered a massive domino effect which has radically changed the balance of power in the Middle East. Britain and France, their ‘Great Power’ status collapsed with the establishment of Vichy France and the defeat of Britain to seize the Suez Canal in 1956.
The Abraham Accords irreversibly tarnished EU imperialism known as UNSC Resolutions 242 and 338 as utterly archaic, yesterdays’ dead news.
President Trump’s efforts to force a forced population transfer of all Gazans unto Arab countries resembles the mass population transfer post WWII Allies forced upon the defeated Germans. The Allies compelled 14 million German refugees to depart and move away from Prussia – the newly established Polish territories acquired consequent to War – comparable to Israel’s capture of Jordan’s West Bank. The territory of Prussia, territory which both Poland and Russia acquired through war … mocks the Pie in the Sky language of UN 242 by which the defrocked great powers of England and France declared “Inadmissibility of Acquisition of Territory by War“
Beware of Goyim false messiah narratives. Religious masturbation, how utterly depressing
Both Harry Potter and Weight and Gift of the Cross fail to grasp the Torah concept of Sacrifices as the medium wherein the chosen Cohen People swear a Torah oath “brit” to employ tohor middot within their Yatzir Ha’Tov within the heart.
What Christianity and Potter miss – that the Torah idea of korban, simply not a magical transaction. But a legal act of swearing fidelity to the brit first established by Avraham Yitzak and Yaacov which creates the Chosen Cohen people – תמיד מעשה בראשית – through the Avot commandments known as time-oriented commandments which require prophetic mussar as their most essential and required k’vanna; meaning the dedication of defined Oral Torah tohor middot first revealed to Moshe 40 days after the sin of the Golden Calf on Yom Kippur.
Both works of fiction and revisionist history tell a story of folks in possession of God like powers awarded and bestowed from some undefined Father who sits upon some throne in Heaven, and who bestows magical messiah-powers upon His chosen beloved. Both mythical characters of Harry Potter and JeZeus make the ultimate sacrifice, and sacrifice their lives as the pathway to achieve ”salvation”.
Both fictional narratives fail to define either how the Torah understands the meaning of terms like prophesy, love or even – and most significantly – Torah sacrifices! Even more significant both messiah novels fail to address the Torah concept of Moshiach as learned from Par’o having his “Court” inflict torture upon Hebrew slaves for their failure to meet their quota of bricks!
This story as told in the beginning of the Book of שמות, serves as the kabbalah יסוד, wherein Torah common law relies upon Torah precedents to understand the dedication of the mitzva of Moshiach, defined as the righteous pursuit of judicial justice which strives to make fair compensation of damages inflicted by Party A upon Party B.
“The Weight and Gift of the Cross,” the reflection on JeZeus as the Messiah emphasizes themes of sacrifice, redemption, and the call to discipleship.
However, this narrative – critiqued for presenting a simplified view of messianic expectations, focusing on personal salvation without adequately addressing the complexities of justice and accountability.
But even more central and far greater priority, both fictional narratives utterly fail to grasp that Torah commandments apply – like as does the mitzva of Shabbat – to all Jews in all generations. The idea of some chosen messiah God figure – an utterly alien foreign abomination of Av tumah avoda zarah.
Both narratives fail to engage with the Torah’s understanding of the Messiah, rooted in concepts of justice, ethical behavior, and communal responsibility. The messianic role in Judaism – not merely about individual salvation but involves a holy dedication (directly comparable to a korban burnt upon the altar) which applies straight across the board to the entire chosen seed of Avraham Yitzak and Yaacov; that all generations – rather than some chosen specific individual – have the obligation to sanctify the mitzva of Moshiach, as a Torah commandment, to pursue and sanctify righteous judicial Sanhedrin common law courtroom justice.
Torah “Prophets”, understood as “police agents” of the Sanhedrin courts who enforce the Legislative Review judicial rulings of the lateral Sanhedrin common law courtrooms.
Torah Prophets have the Constitutional mandate to make Legislative Review of government statute laws; they can both anoint and depose kings! Police/prophets give teeth to the rulings of Sanhedrin courts. Judicial legislative review defines the name of the 5th Book of the Torah משנה תורה as well as rabbi Yechuda Ha’Nasi’s משנה.
Both of these non Jewish narratives, by stark contrast reflect the Goyim cultural & customs understanding of Messiah. They create fantastical worlds where mythical beings possess extraordinary powers.
In Harry Potter, together with his Cross-like scar upon his forehead, which imprisons a soul of evil, magic serves as but a metaphor for personal growth and moral choices; while the Gospels, miraculous events, often interpreted as divine intervention – like cursed trees immediately dying or herds of pigs running off of cliffs to their deaths. Such wild fictional story narratives implicitly instructs the gospel rebuke of: “By their fruits you shall know them.” Why ‘implicitly’? Because the church has ignored this gospel rebuke for 2000+ years.
These cultural stories of how Goyim perceive ancient Hebrews or modern British witch societies, they both reflect outsider cultural narratives that shape the reading of how non Jewish audiences understand – good and evil, morality, and human experiences.
These fictional narrative employ fantastical elements to convey propaganda disturbed emotional belief systems later developed into both Cannon and Creeds. Easter, known as Lent, commonly know as “Passion of Christ”, which commemorates blood libel pogroms so that Jews endure their accountability for killing God.
Both imaginary narratives fail to hold their own criminally insane and violent believers to any judicial justice of accountability. Post the Wizarding War, only a few criminally insane war-criminals sent to jail. Rather than mass public executions, Goyim courts quietly freed guilty war-criminals. The Catholic church established rat-lines to assist Nazis to flee to South America.
Never the implied gospel rebuke: “By their Fruits you shall know them” demand for accountability for crimes. Church morality limited this gospel rebuke only to the Jews.
Pope Pius XII made an open alliance with Hitler, and Martin Luther promoted not just Nazi Book burnings, but actual mass murder of Jews burned to their collective deaths inside synagogues. The Catholic public burning of the Talmud in Paris France in 1242, served as the inspiration of Nazi hate crimes.
The Harry Potter witching world directly compares to the three Century ghetto-gulags, wherein the church threw Jewish refugee populations into prisons of poverty. The concealed world of witchcraft societies likewise compares to the forced mass population transfers – similar to the 1492 Spanish expulsion of Jews. The weakness of magic in the Potter story, magic cannot produce food any more than Jews languishing in Catholic gulag ghettos.