Finally! I was able to sit down with an active member of the Apostolic United Brethren, also known as the Allred Group. Josh Thompson is the grandson of Rulon Allred, an important fundamentalist Mormon leader. We sat down to discuss similarities and differences with the LDS faith. We’ll discuss his views on polygamy, growing up in polygamy, whether he views Russell Nelson and/or David Watson as a prophet, and we’ll even discuss his thoughts on the horror film “Heretic” with Hugh Grant and a couple of sister missionaries. Check out our conversation…

Introduction tpo Apostlic United Brethren

Josh Thompson is a member of the Apostolic United Brethren (AUB), also known as the Allred group. They do not refer to themselves as AUB, but rather “The Work,” as in the work of God. Josh is another grandson of Rulon Allred, who the group is named after. You may remember my previous interviews with 2 of Josh’s cousins, Joe Jessop (now LDS) and Moroni Jessop (now independent.)

Josh’s Family and Cousins

Josh talks about his father’s side of the family, mentioning his grandfather, Joe Thompson, who went on to found another group known as the Thompson Group. (Moroni was a member of that group briefly.) Josh describes his upbringing outside the community structure and his experience in public school and higher education. He is currently working on his masters degree to become a physician’s assistant. Josh currently has 2 wives.

Josh’s Experience with the LDS Church

Josh attended the LDS Institute in Missoula, Montana, and Josh received an award for being the most faithful non-member at the institute. Josh expresses his love for the LDS Church and acknowledges its strengths compared to the AUB. He describes his experience tracting with LDS missionaries and the challenges they faced.

Josh explains the AUB’s belief in the LDS Church as the rightful church. Josh is impressed with the LDS missionary work and has respect for the LDS Church’s organizational structure. He does have some quibbles with how missionary work is conducted, emphasizing that the scriptures admonish missionaries to travel without purse or scrip.

While the LDS Church has switched to 2-hour church, the AUB has 5 hour church! Each meeting (Priesthood/RS, Sunday School, and Sacrament Meetings) are 90 minutes long with a 15 minute break between meetings. There are no set lesson plans, and people are expected to speak by the spirit without a lot of notes. There are mixed results as to how effective lessons/speakers can be, but he prefers that approach to reading talks in the LDS Church.

Josh’s Personal Beliefs and Experiences

Josh shares his personal views on Russell M Nelson as the true president of the LDS Church, but believes AUB leader Dave Watson holds the priesthood keys separate from Pres Nelson. Josh expresses his belief in the eventual reconciliation of the AUB with the LDS Church, and whether that would happen before or after the Second Coming.

LDS Church and AUB Views on Polygamy and Priesthood

Rick asked if AUB views the LDS Church as the true church or apostate. Josh expresses his reluctance to label the LDS Church as apostate, believing the church has slowly moved away from the fullness of the gospel. Josh explains that the AUB separates priesthood authority from the political kingdom, allowing them to believe President Nelson is not the sole holder of priesthood keys. He discussed the keys to the priesthood, particularly in relation to polygamy and temple ordinances, with Josh acknowledging the complexity of these issues.

Temple Ordinances

Some fundamentalist groups have rejected LDS Temples following the 1978 revelation allowing blacks to receive priesthood & participate in temple ordinances. Rick asked if that was true in the AUB. Josh shares his belief that God is more liberal than traditionally thought, making it difficult for him to invalidate LDS temple ordinances post-1978.

Priesthood Lines

During the Heber J. Grant administration, it became policy for men to no longer be ordained, and simply set apart. Under David O. McKay’s leadership, ordination became the norm again, prior to setting men apart to an office. Josh explains the AUB’s belief that priesthood lines through the LDS Church during certain periods were not properly conferred, affecting the validity of ordinations. This may have affected President Nelson, who turned 100 in 2024. Being born in 1924, assuming he was ordained to the Melchizedek priesthood in 1942, Nelson may not have been ordained as is done today. Josh said he would give President Nelson the benefit of the doubt.

Racial Issues & Fundamentalist Views

Rick brings up the AUB’s views on black people and the LDS Church’s 1978 revelation allowing blacks to hold the priesthood. Josh expresses his love for black people and emphasizes that the AUB does not believe in the inherent inferiority of black people. Rick shares a story from Joe Jessop, highlighting the AUB’s historical views on black people and their reaction to the 1978 revelation. Josh acknowledges the difficulty of explaining these views to outsiders, emphasizing the AUB’s non-racist intentions and the challenges of being misunderstood.

Purpose of Polygamy in AUB Community

Josh discusses the purpose of polygamy, emphasizing its role in character development and the challenges it presents to both men and women. He shares his belief that living plural marriage can lead to a more God-like character, despite the hardships involved. Josh expresses his frustration with the lack of understanding of polygamy by outsiders and those who have left the practice. He highlights the strong sense of community and love within the AUB, attributing it to the challenges and sacrifices required in plural marriage.

Split Between AUB and FLDS

The AUB and FLDS in 1951, shortly after the Short Creek Raid in 1951, leading to the jailing of many polygamist leaders and their wives. Josh shares his grandfather Rulon’s criticisms of the FLDS group and the problems they faced, such as marrying young women and one-man rule.

Authority and Marriage Practices in AUB

Rick and Josh discuss the authority for plural marriages and the role of the council in the AUB. Josh explains the importance of obtaining permission from the council for polygamous marriages and the role of fathers in the sealing process. Rick and Josh discuss the differences in courtship practices between the AUB and other groups like Centennial Park. Josh shares his personal belief that a righteous woman has the right to marry whoever she wants and the challenges of convincing a father-in-law of one’s sincerity. Josh describes the courtship process in the AUB, emphasizing the importance of asking the girl’s father for permission. Josh explains the differences in courtship for first and subsequent marriages, with the latter involving more formal dating with the family.

View on Missionary Work

Josh emphasizes the importance of relying on God for missionary work and the differences in approach between the AUB and the LDS Church. Josh explains the AUB’s belief in doing missionary work without purse or scrip. While AUB doesn’t send missionaries because they feel that is the job of LDS Church, they believe LDS should have missionaries travel without purse or scrip.

What are your reactions to the AUB’s desire to keep polygamy alive? Have you interacted with fundamentalist Mormons like Josh?