My wife finished up her contract with the University of Virginia and we left Charlottesville and the wonderful ward there. We headed out to hike the Continental Divide Trail (CDT) that runs from Mexico to Canada.
The CDT is known to be very remote. One result of that fact is that we often go days without any cell coverage and even longer periods between times when I get to really look at the news.
So, I was really surprised by two significant items I ran into. I also found an explanation of a third issue that has been in the news.
First, Salt Lake has airborne toxins that mean that the rate of Alzheimer’s disease and similar afflictions will be four times the national average, and greater for those seventy of age and older.
That is scary.
Second, I saw a number of things about a LDS panty patrol and other headlines on that topic that are more profane. I am uncomfortable in repeating them.
The headlines were based on the following facts:
- Women sometimes wear over the knee temple garments to avoid lines when wearing slacks, yoga pants and similar clothes.
- There has been a declining use of temple garments, especially among men.
- There was an official church statement that discussed these two facts in an unusual context.
I find myself unable to comment on the combination and it is unsurprising that many of those who have commented do not bear repeating. The sad thing is I think that the resultant news coverage was a complete surprise to the authority whom I am sure meant well.
Third and finally, I finally ran into a complete analysis of the Church and the investment fund that appeared to focus on using attorney logic rather than human logic.
It started with the decision to build an index fund. Stocks are purchased to mimic the ratios of the Dow Jones.
The goal of such a fund was to follow the market and to keep costs low. There is remarkably little discretion or decision making in managing such a fund.
At the time the funds started, the SEC had quit reading the require reports related to such situations and petitioned to have the regulation dropped.
A lawyer would suggest that you could skip reporting for a year based on that. Any human broker working in finance would decide that such a required report was a bright line rule and one must fill out that form and report.
The next year, the reporting requirements were not dropped. A human working in finance would assess the situation, adjust their behavior and start reporting. A lawyer would assess the situation and decide that any employee or representative would qualify as an independent decision maker — because there really were not decisions to be made in maintaining an index fund. They then picked random people with generic names and had them sign off as the independent decision maker.
Index funds are particularly ill-suited to the concept of independent management because there isn’t any decision being made.
Eventually a whistleblower appeared who then attempted to make ten billion dollars for whistleblowing.
The whistleblower did not collect. But, the funds were fined roughly one year’s worth of what it would have cost to manage them properly.
A lawyer sees that as a win as the funds came out ahead in dollars saved vs dollars fined. A broker would see that as a punishment and an indictment. Much of how outsiders have seen the entire situation is a direct reflection how they felt about the church before the press got involved in the story.
People who were church insiders assume good intent and remain positive about the LDS church. Those who were negative about the LDS church see the church actions in this situation as another point of dishonesty and hypocrisy.
That is what I’ve seen that is notable from a Wheat & Tares standpoint.
My question is what has been in your news feed? Any surprises?
Wheat & Tares 
University of Virginia? My graduate school. And home of the big lie told by Dallin H Oaks. That’s my newsfeed.
Aside from omitting significant details of the third story, your analysis thereof has an astounding implication–that the lawyers are running the show in Salt Lake, not the humans.
Can I just say how surprised/pleased I am to see a screenshot of xcaliber lc/ms chromatography traces on W&T? This is the sort of data I look at every day, but never in my wildest dreams would I have expected to see something like that here.
”Washington D.C., Feb. 21, 2023 —
The Securities and Exchange Commission today announced charges against Ensign Peak Advisers Inc., a non-profit entity operated by The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints to manage the Church’s investments, for failing to file forms that would have disclosed the Church’s equity investments, and for instead filing forms for shell companies that obscured the Church’s portfolio and misstated Ensign Peak’s control over the Church’s investment decisions. The SEC also announced charges against the Church for causing these violations. To settle the charges, Ensign Peak agreed to pay a $4 million penalty and the Church agreed to pay a $1 million penalty.
The SEC’s order finds that, from 1997 through 2019, Ensign Peak failed to file Forms 13F, the forms on which investment managers are required to disclose the value of certain securities they manage. According to the order, the Church was concerned that disclosure of its portfolio, which by 2018 grew to approximately $32 billion, would lead to negative consequences. To obscure the amount of the Church’s portfolio, and with the Church’s knowledge and approval, Ensign Peak created thirteen shell LLCs, ostensibly with locations throughout the U.S., and filed Forms 13F in the names of these LLCs rather than in Ensign Peak’s name. The order finds that Ensign Peak maintained investment discretion over all relevant securities, that it controlled the shell companies, and that it directed nominee “business managers,” most of whom were employed by the Church, to sign the Commission filings. The shell LLCs’ Forms 13F misstated, among other things, that the LLCs had sole investment and voting discretion over the securities. In reality, the SEC’s order finds, Ensign Peak retained control over all investment and voting decisions.
“We allege that the LDS Church’s investment manager, with the Church’s knowledge, went to great lengths to avoid disclosing the Church’s investments, depriving the Commission and the investing public of accurate market information,” said Gurbir S. Grewal, Director of the SEC’s Division of Enforcement. “The requirement to file timely and accurate information on Forms 13F applies to all institutional investment managers, including non-profit and charitable organizations.”
Ensign Peak agreed to settle the SEC’s allegation that it violated Section 13(f) of the Securities Exchange Act of 1934 and Rule 13f-1 thereunder by failing to file Forms 13F and for misstating information in these forms. The Church agreed to settle the SEC’s allegation that it caused Ensign Peak’s violations through its knowledge and approval of Ensign Peak’s use of the shell LLCs.”
(source: SEC)
“We consider this matter closed.”
This is how to answer any questions about your tithing now. Follow the example set by the leaders.
My news feed is still full of the news that Pope Francis says there is an air of faggotry in the Vatican (#frociaggine gate). That news is overshadowing the Formula 1 Racing also happening in Italy right now.
you see, this is the difference between Facebook and Tumblr.
I haven’t seen any Mormon-y stories on my news feed lately, but just have some quick reactions to yours. On the first story, I bet there’s something like that afoot in every state as corporations continue to pollute the environment in the name of profit while state and federal regulators look the other way. On the second one: I don’t claim a whole lot of certainty when it comes to theology but if there’s one thing I’m pretty sure I’m sure of, it’s this: God does not care about our underwear choices. Never has. Never will – as long as we’re wearing it under our clothing… But even then, I can’t see the creator of of the universe being too concerned about that either. But, hey. I could be wrong. Even so, old men policing the underwear choices of young women (or of anyone) is just icky. Finally, on the last item: to be honest my eyes started to glaze over at “index fund” and I spent the rest of the post wondering if one could buy a standalone index and why one would just buy the index when one clearly has enough money for the whole book. (Enjoy the free dad joke, in honor of father’s day). Suffice to say, I can’t say I fully understand the complex multi-billion dollar financial machinations of the Church. But that’s ok. I don’t think Jesus would either.
Maybe I am just old-fashioned, but gentlemen don’t talk about women’s underwear in public and certainly not in private with a woman to whom they are not legally and lawfully wed. I’m not sure how the idea that such conversations could be inspired by God ever got started.
Second, my news feed still pops up with stories about steeples on temples. I guess there is still controversy in Texas. Is this a hill we are ready to die on? Seriously? Whack the darn thing off and deal with it. The Mesa Arizona temple operates just fine. Steeples on temples are like appendixes in the human body. Not necessary.
What’s the “big lie,” Josh h?
@Jack, I believe that josh h is probably referring to Oaks’ false claim that electroshock therapy for LGBTQ people didn’t occur at BYU during his tenure as president: https://www.sltrib.com/religion/2021/11/16/dallin-oaks-says-shock/. Before you say, well, BYU is a big place, and Oaks just didn’t know what was going on, as far as I know, Oaks never issued a correction to his statement once he was “informed” that electroshock therapy did indeed occur during his tenure, even though a number of prominent news outlets published articles citing pretty strong evidence that Oaks’ statement was false.
Thanks, mountainclimber479. I did a little reading on the subject–and it looks like some of the initial reports (at least) failed to mention that the “therapy” that took place during Elder Oaks’ tenure as president was part of a research project being conducted on campus. It was not “therapy” in the sense that it was some sort of service provided to students and non students alike. There were a number of people who were selected to participate in the project for the purpose of running tests and gathering information on a method (or methods) having to do with electroshock therapy. They were not providing therapy per se.
IMO, any news source that failed to mention that significant detail either failed to gather all the facts or were disingenuous in their presentation of the facts.
There are 2 other
LDS church/EPA accumulation/the SEC ruling
written from an attorney viewpoint on BCC. 1) 2/21/23. 2) 2/19/24. They are worth reading.
Jack, your response completely ignores the issue raised by josh h: Did Oaks lie about electroshock therapy happening at BYU during his tenure there? It clearly did happen, so either he intentionally lied in his initial statement or he mispoke because he was unaware of what was happening on campus during his tenure, he forgot what happened over the years, etc. If the case is that he misspoke, he chose not to correct his statement when confronted with the facts. The lack of a correction gives the appearance that he is standing by his statement, which would constitute lying.
There are documented cases where gay BYU students were given the choice of participating in the electroshock program on campus or being expelled from school. I supposed one can call that “voluntary” because they did have a choice to leave school, but I don’t think that most people would consider this voluntary. For example, here is a quote (here’s the whole video: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=biGQs20JhW0) from Ray King who was an assistant who helped administer the electrochock treatments (in a bizarre twist, King himself was a closeted gay man at the time he was administering shock therapy):
There were a number of other gay students and non-students who were referred to the BYU program by their bishops and stake presidents who suffered because they wanted to change and trusted their leaders’ advice.
Why does Oaks need to lie? What is wrong with him acknowledging that electroshock therapy happened during his tenure at BYU president? Well, I suspect the problem is that such an acknowledgement just doesn’t make him look very prophetic, at least in the sense that Nelson and Oaks wish to project themselves as prophets. And that, in my opinion, is one of the most vexing problems facing Mormonism today.
mountainclimber479,
While the commenters in that video might be sincere the video itself is obviously designed as a hit piece against the church — what with its forced irony in the edits between the stories of individuals and the statements of President Kimball — and as such it has very little credibility (to me at least).
Here’s a well researched document that gives a more realistic picture of what was actually happening in those days:
https://www.fairlatterdaysaints.org/aversion-therapy-at-byu
Jack,
Yes, the video is biased against the Church. I agree that the transitions in the video where Kimball quotes are used are in poor taste. However, the bulk of the video is simply the people who participated in aversion therapy telling their stories. You said these people seemed sincere. Why are their stories not credible just because they are sandwiched between short transitions that are critical of the Church? Would you have accepted their stories if they had been posted on FAIR’s website instead?
Speaking of biased sources when it comes to the Church, FAIR would have to be high on anyone’s list. Their mission is to defend the Church’s position on any, single issue. If the FAIR article is so “realistic”, why is it that it doesn’t mention that there really were cases where gay students were given a lot of pressure to participate in aversion therapy? Answer: the Church’s/BYU’s official position is that this didn’t happen, so that is also FAIR’s position (again, FAIR will always support the Church’s position). A common tactic of FAIR articles is to ignore sources of information that make the Church’s position look bad, and I suspect that is what happened here as well. The FAIR article seems to be taking the Church’s word for what happened based on its official statements regarding aversion therapy while completely ignoring the stories of those who actually experienced it. I often read FAIR articles to understand various ways of looking at things from the Church’s point of view, but I can’t overlook the actual statements of people who experienced aversion therapy at BYU regardless of whether those statements were included in a video by people who are biased against the Church.
mountainclimber479,
I’m going to provide one more link and then let you have the final word. This an interview with the professor who performed the research at BYU:
https://www.fairlatterdaysaints.org/blog/2012/02/01/fair-examination-8-aversion-therapy-at-byu-dr-eugene-thorne
He paints a very different picture than the one we get from the video you linked to. I would encourage you to look at the comments associated with the interview as well–they’re very informative. And I would also encourage to look a little deeper into the first link I posted. There is a huge cache of information there–with many links to other articles and reputable sources.
Jack, It turns out that even FAIR acknowledges that some gay students were pressured into aversion therapy (https://www.fairlatterdaysaints.org/home-page/current-events/aversion-therapy-for-homosexuality-in-scientific-historical-context):
(I added the bold formatting.)
I don’t know any other way to read this other than even FAIR–an extremely biased source–acknowledges that some BYU students were given the “choice” between expulsion and excommunication or aversion therapy.
I find it very disingenous on FAIR’s part to state that all aversion therapy patients were volunteers on their “simplified page” (the one you linked to in your first comment), and then to acknowledge that some students, in reality, were probably subjected to a great deal of pressure to agree to aversion therapy on their “scholarly explainer” page which I linked to.
I’d also like to note the extreme amount of “mental gymnastics” being performed in the quote above. FAIR knows that most people today are not going to look favorably on pressuring anyone into electroshock therapy. “Oh, let’s please not call it ‘forced’ because these gay students did technically have the choice to be expelled or excommunicated instead (and very likely rejected by their Mormon families back in the 1970s).” “These gay students signed the Honor Code, so it’s their own fault for putting themselves in this predicament when they got caught with a gay girlfriend/boyfriend.” “Certain cases might not have been handled kindly, but that’s not really a problem since those were the mistakes of individuals–the Church itself is in the clear.” That’s simply extremely biased writing in favor of the Church. FAIR knows this doesn’t look good, and is using a lot of words to try to convince the reader that these students really weren’t forced into aversion therapy. Even so, apparently even FAIR felt that there was sufficient evidence for students being pressured into aversion therapy that they had to address it in this article, so I applaud them for that (but, again, it should have been mentioned on their “simplified” page as well).
I agree that FAIR has gone to a great deal of effort to provide information about aversion therapy at BYU. After going through all of this effort, why did they choose only to include positive stories from people who participated in the therapy and did not to include some of the stories of people who were hurt by conversion therapy? Answer: because they are an apologetic organization whose mission is to paint the Church in the best light possible, and those stories don’t fit with their mission. FAIR is a good place to go to find answers to questions that will always make the Church look as good as possible. They are not a good place to go to get the whole story.
Whether aversion therapy was voluntary or not isn’t the sole issue. Back in the 1970s, the Church was teaching that homosexuality was a sin that could be overcome if one tried/prayed hard enough. It created an environment where gay people would do almost anything to “fix” themselves. The Church now acknowledges that this is not possible, so that means that our “prophets, seers, and revelators” were teaching incorrect things about homosexuality in the 1970s–yet another piece of evidence that our prophets and apostles are very fallible and quite regularly make huge mistakes that harm people. Even many of the aversion therapy participants who freely volunteered without any threat of excommunication or expulsion did so because they felt the pressure to “fix” themselves like Church leaders taught that they needed to do. Many of them later regretted their participation because it was harmful to them. There is a reason that conversion therapy is illegal in many states today (it’s even illegal in Utah, of all places, for minors as of 2023). The reason it’s illegal is because it can be very dangrous and harmful, and it doesn’t work. Sure, FAIR can quote some people who didn’t feel that their experience with aversion therapy was too bad, but there are many people who were seriously harmed at BYU by this treatment, and I’ve already provided you with some firsthand accounts (if you can just watch the 95+% of the video that is people sharing their stories and ignore the 5% or less of the video making negative statements about the Church).
This is my last comment on this topic.
mountainclimber479,
I’m sorry–I thought I was done. But I think some things need to be clarified. First, the treatment spoken of in the paragraph you quote above would not have been done as part of the research project at BYU. Dr. Thorne makes a distinction between his work as a clinician and his research at BYU. As a clinician he would have offered treatment off campus–while his work on campus had to do with researching shock treatment. That distinction is very important vis-a-vis Elder Oaks’ claim.
And second, from your final paragraph:
“The Church now acknowledges that this is not possible, so that means that our “prophets, seers, and revelators” were teaching incorrect things about homosexuality in the 1970s–yet another piece of evidence that our prophets and apostles are very fallible and quite regularly make huge mistakes that harm people.”
The church was following the science of the time–as continues to do today with a wide variety of concerns. That said, I suppose that if the apostles had received a revelation and/or issued some sort of collective statement on the nature of homosexuality — declaring that it was “reversible” — then we’d be justified in bringing into question their fallibility as prophets, seers, and revelators on this particular issue.
Jack,
Sorry, but I can’t let your false statements stand…
I suggest that we embrace and learn from the lessons from our history rather than denying and trying to rewrite it to make our “prophets, seers, and revelators” seem infallible.
There are *so many* quotes from past Q15 members claiming homosexuality can be reversed that I don’t even know where to start. I’ll limit myself to three examples. Shortly before becoming president of the Church, Spencer Kimball taught in the Miracle of Forgiveness:
The Church published a pamphlet called “Hope for Transgressors” which was written by Spencer Kimball and apostle Mark Peterson which contains the following:
Here is just one collective and definitive statement from the entire Q15 on this topic stating that homosexuality can be overcome/reversed (and further falsely claiming that a just God would never allow His children to be born gay–He’ll allow them to be born into war, famine, abuse, birth defects, and all sorts of horrific situations, but for some reason, He won’t allow them to be born gay):
Boyd Packer made a very similar statement in his GC talk in 2010, and he was required to revise his talk after the fact to align with the Q15’s changed stance on homosexuality: https://archive.sltrib.com/article.php?id=50440474&itype=cmsid. In 1981, The Q15 taught that gay people weren’t born that way and could overcome/reverse their “condition”, but by 2010, they acknowledged that it was possible that people were born gay, and that this was an irreversible condition (although they still ask them to remain celibate for their entire lives). The Q15 taught incorrect principles which caused thousands of gay members of the Church to attempt to change their sexuality in ways that were very harmful to them. Their false teachings caused a lot of pain and harm to people who truly believed they were prophets, seers, and revelators who spoke for God.
Regarding whether or not Oaks lied, Thorne’s research happened during Oaks’ tenure at BYU. That is enough to make Oaks’ statement at the University of Virginia a lie. Period. In Greg Prince’s book, “Gay Rights and the Mormon Church”, a book I highly recommend that you read as it is far better researched and less biased than FAIR, Prince states, “there is evidence that during the mid-1990s, in nonapproved protocols, electrodes were attached to male genitalia during treatment that occurred on the BYU campus as well as off-campus under supervision of BYU faculty.” Also, “It is not clear how long electrical shock therapy was practiced at BYU. Physician Rob Killian places the date that it ceased no earlier than 1988, more than a decade after McBride’s experiment. ‘I was offered electrical shock therapy in the Spencer W. Kimball Tower at BYU.,..There was an admission by BYU officials at some point in the past ten years that they had mistakenly said no electrical shock therapy occurred and they corrercted themselves…I do know that the treatment was offered for longer than they admitted and that the practitioner eventually moved the service to a private address off of BYU campus and continued for some time offering this therapy.” Aversion therapy was being offered to BYU students on BYU’s campus throughout the 1970s and 80s and probably into the 90s. Dallin Oaks lied.
mountainclimber479,
I guess we’ll have to agree to disagree about whether or not Elder Oaks lied. And frankly I have more confidence in FAIR than I do in Greg Prince.
Re: the quote from the First Presidency and the Council of the Twelve Apostles: As I read it–it’s about behavior and not orientation per se. Yes it does say that God would not allow us “to be born with desires and inclinations that require behavior which is contrary to the eternal plan.” But I take that to mean that we have the strength to forego acting on our desires–and that because we have a particular orientation we should not assume that we have no choice but to act in accordance with it.