In the October 2023 General Conference, President Nelson spoke about having an eternal perspective on life and its challenges (“Think Celestial!”). It’s good counsel if you’re a believing member of The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints. I wish Church leaders would clearly say that their counsel is only for TBMs, because it causes a lot of harm, and prevents a lot of good, when TBMs decide that everyone else should live by their religious beliefs. No, non-members don’t need to “think celestial” about being transgender or being gay.
The baseless notion that we should “eat, drink, and be merry, for tomorrow we die; and it shall be well with us” is one of the most absurd lies in the universe.Here is the great news of God’s plan: the very things that will make your mortal life the best it can be are exactly the same things that will make your life throughout all eternity the best it can be! Today, to assist you to qualify for the rich blessings Heavenly Father has for you, I invite you to adopt the practice of “thinking celestial”! [source]
It’s a little disingenuous to say that the same things that make your mortal life the best it can be also make your eternal life the best it can be. I’m not the only one who ended up in a miserable situation (bad relationships), and then prolonged it, thinking that if I could just suffer through it in this life, God would fix it all in the next life. Thinking Celestial can make people suffer when they put off addressing problems in this life.
Nelson singled out a few specific areas in which he counseled listeners to “think celestial.”
Temple Marriage
“The Lord has clearly taught that only men and women who are sealed as husband and wife in the temple, and who keep their covenants, will be together throughout the eternities.”
Good for TBMs: This reminds straight TBMs who have the social skills and opportunity to get married that they should continue to hope for a temple marriage, and work to keep an existing marriage strong.
Harm Caused: Believing TBMs who struggle with social skills, did not have the opportunity to marry, or who are not interested in a sexual relationship with the opposite sex, are again relegated to second class status. The constant drumbeat of temple marriage counteracts other words of Church leaders encouraging us to love and respect everyone as a child of God, especially because this wording devalues anyone who isn’t in a temple marriage.
Good Prevented: Finding joy and satisfaction in this life. Anything other than temple marriage is second best, or an outright disaster, and so people who might have been happy in something other than a straight temple marriage will experience a lot of angst and self-doubt about their right to be happy in this life. I mean, if you’re not going to make it to the celestial kingdom anyway (hi, yes, it’s me), then seizing happiness in this life is even more important.
Addiction
“As you think celestial, you will find yourself avoiding anything that robs you of your agency. Any addiction—be it gaming, gambling, debt, drugs, alcohol, anger, pornography, sex, or even food—offends God. Why? Because your obsession becomes your god. You look to it rather than to Him for solace. If you struggle with an addiction, seek the spiritual and professional help you need. Please do not let an obsession rob you of your freedom to follow God’s fabulous plan.”
Good for TBMs: Nelson directs people to seek professional help. Another really good line is the one where he says that addicts look to their addiction, rather than to God, for solace. That’s a good insight. This wording also doesn’t blame addicts for being weak. He frames it in morally neutral language.
Harm Caused: Look, I could nitpick, but in the few words allotted to this topic, I think he handled it pretty well. For non-believers, obedience to God isn’t going to be motivating, but he’s not talking to them.
Good Prevented: None.
Law of Chastity
And now we return to the Church’s obsession with sex.
“Thinking celestial will also help you obey the law of chastity. Few things will complicate your life more quickly than violating this divine law. For those who have made covenants with God, immorality is one of the quickest ways to lose your testimony. Many of the adversary’s most relentless temptations involve violations of moral purity. The power to create life is the one privilege of godhood that Heavenly Father allows His mortal children to exercise. Thus, God set clear guidelines for the use of this living, divine power. Physical intimacy is only for a man and a woman who are married to each other.”
Good for TBMs: In my opinion, the scare tactics about sex and chastity aren’t good for anyone. These words probably gave some straight, temple-married TBMs a pat on the back, but that’s about all.
Harm Caused: Can we please just admit that not all sexual pleasure is procreative? Let’s limit the law of chastity to baby-making (be in a stable relationship and ready and willing to take care of another human being) and let people be adults about their sexual needs. The best principles to govern sexuality are honesty, respect and consent, not rules created by the Christian patriarchy without any input from women or gays and based on a few isolated verses in scripture. Sexual frustration doesn’t benefit anyone. I consider myself to be a neutral observer here — I’m asexual, and once I quit believing that sex is some sort of divine expression of love (that’s my personal experience; people who like sex may have a very different idea), I concluded that sex is morally neutral. It’s a bodily function. Sex should be discussed in terms of healthy and not healthy, not in terms of obedience and sin. The law of chastity ignores how differently reproduction affects men and women, and causes a lot of needless guilt and shame.
Good Prevented: We could have conversations about sex that aren’t centered around the Church’s obsession with baby-making. We could talk about infertility, nonconsensual sexual experiences, sex used as a method of control, how the patriarchy affects women’s experiences with sex, and so many other topics that touch on sex. The Church’s continued confinement of sex to procreation limits its teachings and some people will go searching for other sources of guidance and help on sexual issues.
Other Topics
“When you are confronted with a dilemma, think celestial! When tested by temptation, think celestial! When life or loved ones let you down, think celestial! When someone dies prematurely, think celestial. When someone lingers with a devastating illness, think celestial. When the pressures of life crowd in upon you, think celestial! As you recover from an accident or injury, as I am doing now, think celestial!”
The problem I have with “Celestial Thinking” is the way it short circuits “Problem Solving Thinking.” Like premature death and devastating illness — Problem Solving Thinking produced the medical profession, the scientific method, and a whole bunch of cures and treatments to reduce the number of people suffering premature death and devastating illness. TBMs don’t leave death and illness up to God’s will anymore.
I’m glad he didn’t list poverty and economic struggles. Those problems should be solved while in this life. Religious people who believe that society doesn’t need to address poverty and temporal suffering because God will make it up to them in the next life are pretty awful. Chronic hunger and poverty are not character building.
There are times when Celestial Thinking helps, like when dealing with an injury. However, you can get the same result by taking a wider view of mortal life. He’s talking about keeping perspective through struggles and that’s universal, not limited to a certain set of religious beliefs.
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What do you think of Celestial Thinking?
What do you think of these specific areas? Does Celestial Thinking help or hurt?
Has Celestial Thinking helped you personally? Hurt you personally? What do you do to keep perspective?
Wheat & Tares 
I really felt uncomfortable with the way Nelson presented this concept. I felt like he drew a bright line around the church and pushed me over it. I immediately started substituting “think terrestrial” in my mind for this phrase. If you are going to exclude my children from the celestial kingdom in your theology, than I don’t want to go to your celestial kingdom. You stay there. I am going to be happy and have a good relationship with my kids wherever they are.
I am a heterosexual cisgender woman happily sealed in the temple at this point of time. Still, my experiences have taught me that idolizing the temple sealing and temple marriage doesn’t bring happiness. It’s such a an exclusive paradigm.
When I was younger and my husband and I struggled in our marriage, I hated going to church and hearing “Families Can be Together Forever” or “Love at Home”. It felt like salt being rubbed in my wounds. Today our children are all in various circumstances that don’t fit neatly into this theology either.
I don’t see his theology as being entirely accurate and I also don’t think he knows as much about the after life as he thinks he knows. This revelation of the afterlife was given through Joseph Smith’s brain. It improves on the paradigm protestants believed in at that time. However I much prefer Jesus’ fuzzier and less hierarchical statement that there are many mansions in heaven. I don’t believe in a hierarchical exclusive heaven where we are forced to be separated unless we are Aperfect according to an idolized vision.
I believe in a loving Heavenly Family and I don’t see how sad heaven fits into that. Approaching the concept from an exclusive fear based position is not helpful.
I think it would have been more helpful to teach people celestial treatment of each other every day in this life (following Jesus Christ and loving one another whatever our circumstances or problems). That is something we can control as individuals. I hear Elder Soares did a good job with that, and certainly Nelson did well teaching this in the last conference.
So his talk was hurtful to me. It may have helped some people in some ways. I hope so. Nelson has so much authority and I fear the next 6 months at church will be dominated by “Think Celestial”. That could be hurtful for me. I don’t know if I will tolerate it well or if I will end up in the parking lot waiting for my family.
“Think Celestial!” is just vapid sloganeering that will fuel kitschy memes and T-shirts. The real damage in RMN’s talk was his line about not taking any counsel from people who don’t believe. It’s a stake through the heart of every mixed-faith marriage or family, and it’s license for the worst elements of the Church to behave as badly as they want.
The best advice I heard on this talk was from Zandra with Sistahs in Zion. She explained that she isn’t interested in a gospel of exaltation, that defines where you will sleep in heaven. She is interested in a gospel of salvation offered by Jesus Christ. Exaltation was denied her people for a long time and the gospel of salvation is way more valuable. I will be happy to stand with her, wherever she is.
April 2023: “I am greatly concerned that so many people seem to believe that it is completely acceptable to condemn, malign, and vilify anyone who does not agree with them”.
Oct 2023: ” …some shall depart from the faith, giving heed to seducing spirits and doctrines of devils…never take counsel from those who do not believe”.
RMN said, “Any addiction—be it gaming, gambling, debt, drugs, alcohol, anger, pornography, sex, or even food—offends God. Why? Because your obsession becomes your god. You look to it rather than to Him for solace.”
What kind of God is he promoting? This paints God as the most supreme narcissist. I am a father to 3 children, and if they do things that are potentially destructive to their lives, I am not offended, I am sad, my heart aches for them, I suffer with them, but I, in know way, am offended that they made something else more important than me. This God is not the God I profess or would wish upon anyone. I want a God that cares about my well being, not concerned for the attention I give to him.
Perhaps because I just listened to episode 688 of R. Ostler’s Listen, Learn, Love podcast, but I find it ironic that he started with “what will make your mortal life the best are the same things that will make the next life its best.” This episode featured a gay member of the church who had been “inactive” for a long time, found a partner, lived together for many years, adopted/fostered two or three children, and now is a “widow” after the death of his partner. As he described his life, it seemed that he was quite happy in his marriage — in the same ways that cis-het people are often happy in their marriages, happy to have raised good kids, and grieve the loss of a spouse when that spouse passes on.
In general, I’m inclined to agree with Pres. Nelsen that much of what brings us true happiness in this life will carry over into the next. I’m just not sure we always understand in detail how that actually works out (especially when it comes to our LGBT siblings).
RMN said, “Any addiction—be it gaming, gambling, debt, drugs, alcohol, anger, pornography, sex, or even food—offends God. Why? Because your obsession becomes your god. You look to it rather than to Him for solace.”
Firstly, I have no idea what debt addiction is. Is that really a thing that people are addicted to acquiring and consuming debt? That could be construed as shaming the economically disadvantaged who consume debt as a method of last resort, compounded by trying to faithfully pay tithing first. I also am not sure what is meant by anger addiction. Thoughts?
Second, I get so frustrated that God gets to be offended when we use the word Mormon or when we struggle with addiction. But Elder Bednar is on record that being offended is a choice we should not make. Offense for deity but not for me. Go figure.
I have no qualms with people thinking celestial. One gift of my faith crisis was a shift to caring more about the present. But to each their own.
Celestial Thinking and not listening to anyone who doesn’t think like you is a recipe for closemindedness.
Celestial Thinking excluded blacks from holding the Priesthood. How does that relate to Social Justice issues or Black Lives Matter?
Does Celestial Thinking help us to get vaccines wear a mask or avoid public places if we get COVID-19?
Does Celestial Thinking help us at the ballot box choose a candidate who represents our values? Do our values include limiting voting, relocating immigrants to “liberal” cities, building a wall, or any number of other issues facing our nation? Does Celestial Thinking allow us to separate church from state or to ignore our church values when it comes to issues of the state?
It seems that Celestial Thinking means if any of you lacks wisdom you can only ask .02% of the world’s population knowing full well that the majority of those people voted for Trump because of some magical justification like he wasn’t a Democrat. What if Celestial Thinking was more in line with the Democrats? How many people can you talk to now?
I really wasn’t super impressed by this talk…it’s wasn’t terrible (~cough~ Oaks ~cough~),but it also was a little flat and tone deaf. The whole thing just felt like he was searching for the next LDS poster and t-shirt slogan. I’ll cut RMN a bit of slack since he was recently injured and probably wasn’t feeling particularly great, but it’s not a talk that’s really going to stick in the collective Mormon mind…maybe it will for some TBMs, but I kinda doubt it.
Overall I agree with the OP’s analysis. It was a nice pat on the back for people living the textbook life.
I really don’t understand the obsession with sex…it’s weird. Yes, the responsibility of having children should be taken seriously…so teach people to be mature and responsible about it. Don’t be rapey or abusive. Sex is just as normal and commonplace as eating, drinking, and breathing…we’re all here because of it, so stop pretending like it’s some mystical thing and leave people alone.
Also, we have got to stop alienating people who are not married and expecting them to turn into celibate hermits.
I did think the addiction part was handled really well: All types of addiction can rob you of freedom and happiness; God still loves you, please get help when you need it. I wish the whole talk had been like this.
I had a few thoughts on this one. First, I think these slogans are pretty successful if vapid. Covenant path, ponderize, think celestial, “sing a hymn,” even “Families are forever,” all qualify as simple slogans that really don’t explain anything more than skin deep, but are earworms designed to get in your head. Steve Hassan talks about “thought stopping phrases” as part of what he calls mind control cults. Honestly, the way the phrase was presented in the quote Janey put in the OP, that’s exactly how the phrase is designed to be used. When contronted with something difficult, human, and messy, “Think Celestial.” Well, OK, but that’s not really how human beings deal with things like grief or loss or struggle. Being optimistic is fine, but literally avoiding dealing with messy reality is not. It also reminds me of the song from the Book of Mormon musical “Turn it off.”
ELDER MCKINLEY]
I got a feeling
That you could be feeling
A whole lot better than you feel today
You say you got a problem
Well that’s no problem
It’s super easy not to feel that way
When you start to get confused
Because of thoughts in your head
Don’t feel those feelings!
Hold them in instead
Turn it off, like a light switch
Just go click!
It’s a cool little Mormon trick!
We do it all the time
When you’re feeling certain feelings
That just don’t seem right
Treat those pesky feelings
Like a reading light
[ELDER MCKINLEY (ELDER MICHAELS, ELDER NEELEY)]
And turn ’em off
Like a light switch, just go bap!
Really, what’s so hard about that?
Turn it off!
Basically, the very irreverent look at Mormonism that the BOM Musical hits on something that is spot on in our culture (and many religions, not to mention cults). And “Think Celestial” sounds a whole lot like the advice in this song. Sometimes we do have to deal with life, though, and not just ignore the reality we are living for the imagined future.
As to the idea of debt being an addiction, I do think there’s a potential for people to become obsessed with living beyond their means, although I’m not sure calling it an addiction is specifically helpful, and it is incredibly difficult for people who live in poverty and have no savings and no retirement and who have paid 10% to the very wealthy church for their whole lives to avoid debt for basics. Things break. Cars need to be replaced. But I suspect that we aren’t really thinking much about “those people” in our church. If they leave, will they be missed? Are they seen as the “takers” anyway? I truly can’t tell at this point the difference between the CPAC and Church.
The obsession with sex is best understood when you consider that to men, sex and procreation is pretty much always a positive, and the idea of not having a penis in the eternities could be quite motivating. Not so for women. Being an eternal baby farm sounds like actual hell. But again, women are not the target audience here.
Aw man, I didn’t even think of this becoming the next corny catch phrase! But of course you are all right. At least 8 speakers will say “think celestial” in the next Gen Conf and comment on how inspired RMN was to come up with that slogan.
We should be living for the here and now and the foreseeable future. Not some unforeseeable possibility. Life improvement is important, no doubt. Get rid of bad habits and add good habits, yes. Maintain balance in life. Excessive leisure is bad, but overwork is too. Try hard in life. But sometimes things we achieve are good enough and ways we fail aren’t that bad. I’ve long felt in church culture a spirit of never enough. Never enough commitment to the church, never enough having kids, never enough attending the temple. Life got better when I discovered I was feeling a lot of pointless guilt about ridiculous stuff and that what I was doing was good enough.
“While you walk down the covenant path singing a hymn of Zion, ponderize on what it means to think celestial about your forever family.”
Literally every talk at 2024 General Conference.
Yeah, my thoughts on the talk were actually along the lines of the OP and a lot of the commenters. I think so many of our co-religionists might be -better- people if they stopped thinking celestial and started behaving as though -this life- might be all we have.
“What do you think of celestial thinking?”
I think this is a perfectly adequate”life hack” for those who believe that getting pulled up the Jesus Trail in Jerusalem by a “sweet guide” is a totally normal non-check-your-privilage-problematic, faith promoting story to share in a general conference talk. For everyone else – particularly the marginalized – on whose behalf one would hope the Prophet would be actually speaking prophetically in conference…. ya, not so much.
RMN’s bluster of “Think Celestial” seems to place the idea of redemption through the atonement in the dark shadows of the institutional church. It smacks of such arrogance it made me shutter. I’m so tired of the conceit so many general authorities display.
there was a post recently musing on what president of the church will be remembered by
I think RMN will be remembered for the kitschy slogans: “ask the missionaries”, “covenant path”, and now “think celestial”.
That, and encouraging (ordering?) his colleagues to repeat them.
This is something I think about a lot, we’ve all noticed that RMN gets referenced, quoted, and praised more by his colleagues than just about every president of the church in living memory. I wonder how much of that is explicit instruction or semi-conscious mimicry.
I think a thing to remember about the “addiction” talk is that, with the exception of food and procreative sex, every one of the things on that list is banned. Or at least, heavily frowned upon.
Ask anyone who’s gotten a referral to one of those big for-profit “porn addiction” clinics in Utah. There’s literally no amount of enjoying (or making) erotica that’s considered okay. And of course, Utah is also home to a number of concentration camps, where wealthy families pay thousands of dollars to have their own “troubled” teens kidnapped and sent there.
Why? The other things on that list.
I remember I struggled mightily with the thought that I was “addicted” to a classic online game, when the friends I made through it and the experiences I had there were the only things that kept me going at the time. I would’ve struggled a lot less if anyone ever gave a talk about positive experiences with gaming.
(Meanwhile, I wonder how many families could have been spared an unpleasant surprise on their bank statement if one of god’s “inspired” leaders had given a talk about the dangers of loot boxes, and other gambling mechanics in modern video games … )
tamanari,
I view the enumeration of “addictions” as an indication of the church leadership recognizing that obstacles to spiritual growth are not just the simple taboos of sex, drugs and rock & roll. As one who has at various parts of my life experienced many of the listed “addictions” I am appreciative of the power of desire to make it very difficult for a person to choose wisely but I am also cynical of the “addiction” label as a description of that desire. My tastes and attractions have changed so much over the years I tell my wife that the one thing I pledge to never change is my attraction to her. I’ve lived many decades and there is a long list of things I cared deeply about in any one of those decades that I care scarcely for now.
I don’t think my life experience is unique. I think people change their tastes and preferences over time. More correctly, people change how they apply their tastes and preferences over time. For example, I used to be a huge sports fan with a deep conviction for certain teams. Now I prefer to observe sports but I have little regard for any single team. I view that as emotional progress as I am less inclined to allow my emotions to be controlled by the outcome of a game over which I have no control.
There are habits that can be bad and ought to be corrected. How to correct bad habits is a great and deep topic. Jesus sought to correct bad habits through instruction, through correction and through love & aspiration. Humans are not as perfect and patient as Jesus so we apply coercion, shame and punishment as means to correct bad habits – especially to correct the bad habits we judge in others.
Where humans do especially poorly is in identifying a person by their habits. In the Church (and any Christian Church for that matter) this approach is especially damaging as it leads to devaluing persons because they spend their time doing things the “leaders” judge as sinful and wasteful. Gaming can be a time waster. But so can any activity when not disciplined. And as you reflected, it wasn’t helpful to you to have your interest in gaming singled out as bad and harmful, especially when there were positives in the experience.
I think it is fair for a Church to expect members to be obedient to certain laws and commandments. Standards matter.
But as it concerns sins of omission – the failure of each of us to do good things with our time, energy and talents – that is a very personal journey. Those with access to constructive / positive influences have a huge advantage in being able to see others grow and mature. The Church can provide this. So too can family and friends. The Gospel, when lived and followed, makes each of these relationships better equipped to help each person on their journey.
I finally figured out lds tools for our EQ lesson schedule – skipped today because I can’t deal with this talk. Gonna start wearing a Nebraska Cornhuskers necktie to Church and explain that N stands for nuance.