Humans need to belong. 10,000 years ago, it was fatal to not belong to a group. Punishment for upsetting the group was banishment and almost certain death. So humans have evolved to want to belong to a group, even though for the most part today group membership is not a requirement for survival. To belong we must signal to the group that we are one of them. If that signal is too easy, that might let imposters into the group. There needs to be some cost associated with the signal. Costly signaling shows “I am willing to incur a cost to show the group I can be trusted, and I am one of them”.
Costly signaling happens in all parts of our society. I surf, and to belong I must provide some form of costly signaling to show I am a real surfer, and not a poser. Going down to the local Rip Curl surf shop anybody can buy some board shorts and surf branded t-shirt. This has minimal cost, and while they may look the part, it will soon become obvious once they paddle out that they are a kook. The costly signaling for surfers in being out in the water on a big day. Even getting out through the shore break without drowning is “costly signaling”. You belong. Then a big set wave comes, and you are in position. Everybody is looking at you. You turn and paddle. You make the drop. You have signaled to the group you are one of them at some cost to yourself (possibility of injury or worse!) Photo above of me two years ago doing my best at costly signaling.
The Mormon Church is full of costly signaling. We need to show others we belong. For men, wearing a white shirt and tie is costly signaling. While the cost is minimal (sore neck from the tie), you have signaled you are willing to give up comfort (the cost) to belong. Other forms of costly signaling include
- Bearing your testimony in front of the congregation.
- Going to the temple
- Cleaning the chapel on Saturday
- Volunteering for an activity
- Paying tithing
- Singing in the choir
- Accepting a calling, the more visible the more costly
- Speaking in Sacrament meeting
While some of these are done without others knowing, we’ve all seen and heard people announce to the conjugation they just got back from vacation and then lists all the temples they visited (we have one in our ward). Or they bear testimony of tithing, and then tell how they pay more than 10% to get more blessings.
What are some of the ways you signal to others you belong to a specific group? What are the examples of costly signaling you see in the Church?
Wheat & Tares 
Other forms of signaling I see in my ward:
1. Allegiance to conservative politics
2. Allegiance to church leaders except when it conflicts with conservative politics
An example: last week our EQ class discussed “sustaining leaders.” One of the members of the EQ mentioned how disgusted he was when someone vocally refused to sustain the prophet at General Conference. The class agreed. Yet when the prophet requested that everyone mask up, mask numbers even at church were only about 60%, and for these same individuals those numbers dropped to about 10% outside of church.
If you want to see an example of hyper virtue signaling, go visit BYU. Everyone there is on full display for all to see. Pressure starts at the top to convey the appropriate image. That’s why the updated “Honor Code” (so called) still includes a ban on beards. Wouldn’t want folks to think we are rebels demanding peace, love, and rock and roll. But perhaps the pressure is greater among students themselves. Everyone is supposed to measure up in order to become a future worthy spouse. That’s why there’s the subtle garment check. Pro tip: try dating at BYU without serving a full-time mission first and see how that turns out.
I am as critical as anyone about the liberal conformity found at the average US university today. Political correctness (updated as “woke”) is a powerful thing. Liberal universities aren’t exactly tolerant of diverse opinions, just diverse ethnicity, sexuality, etc. But I laugh when I hear a TBM / BYU alum criticize “liberal universities” because the pressure to conform and virtue signal is greater at BYU than anywhere else. (note: I’m a BYU alum who has criticized “liberal” universities but I’ve reformed…my kids all got into BYU but none of them went there!!!!!)
I’ll share a few, some of which are building on Bishop Bill’s:
• Wearing garments in a way that’s obvious – such as wearing them in Arizona in summer.
• Wearing a suit to church in AZ when it’s summer. Actually wearing a suit to church, period.
• Even when I was ABM I couldn’t stand people who wore “future missionary” name tags to church. It wasn’t costly in the sense that it was financially expensive, but it cost them social capital.
• I know a few people who buy extra large vehicles and other equipment because they know the ward will use them for youth activities.
• Serving as an usher in any meeting whatsoever. We do not need ushers at stake conference.
• Snark: merely serving as a stake high councilor is signaling because the weekly meetings cost untold brain cells in boredom.
Serving a mission is an obvious form of costly signaling. It’s one thing to simply say you “know the church is true”, it’s another thing to spend two years of your life in a location you don’t chose, that you pay for to spread its message.
Bishop Bill is a surfer!! That’s awesome. Great pic.
Your list of costly signals covered most of the things I’ve done while a faithful member of the Church, so I thought I would pivot and list some costly signaling that shows that I’ve left the Church.
1. I got my ears double-pierced (before that standard got softened).
2. I’ve got a lesbian haircut. Serious undercut shaved around the back and sides with a #2 clipper.
3. I wear tank tops when it’s super hot.
4. I drink coffee. It is so fun to go get a coffee with friends. I had no idea.
5. I buy stuff on Sundays.
No matter what I do, I’m always going to be culturally Mormon, and there are some beliefs in the LDS theology that I still hold, but I’m not visibly part of the group anymore.
Jacob, how about when the RM ups the ante and begins every answer in Church with “when I was on my mission……”
I sort of belong to an ATV club. Official, nominal membership can go to anyone who pays the membership fees. That gets you discounts at the local ATV/dirt bike/motorcycle store and discounted attendance at the yearly jamboree. To become a real member, you have to (for men) guide the rides at the jamboree and attend meetings and get on a committee. For women to become a real member…..well I haven’t figured it out yet. Me guiding rides would cost another ATV, because we have a side by side and it would cost being separated from my husband, which we really dislike, especially with something slightly dangerous. And getting on a committee is hard for women and one has to live there full time instead of snowbirding. And for men, you also have to prove your driving skill. Sort of like with Bishop Bill and the surfing. Women can prove driving skill and still not be granted acceptance. I have proven driving skills to level 4 or maybe 5 trails, but even women with 7 to 8 level trails are just ignored. Anyone with driving skills on the 9 and 10 level trails has a death wish or is an idiot, so the members ignore them too. So, I think I am just a tag along wife. Some of the tag along wives are friends with each other and some are on committees and some have done an outstanding job, but I don’t see acceptance even for the one woman with great driving skills or the other who does an outstanding job organizing rides but rides as passenger with husband.
So, I am suspecting that maleness is one cost of membership. I think those are called “good ol’ boys clubs.
I don’t see how doing activities you want and enjoy is signaling. I am a Sunday School teacher. I like my calling. I wanted to do it and volunteered for it as I felt it was a good fit for me and how I study scriptures and how I am not afraid to speak in public. I think its fun. I also wear “church attire” because I see it as a sign of respect. Not signaling anything. I also wear suits all the time at work so I am most comfortable with them. Plus I look dapper I might say…
I used to surf when I lived in So Cal. I stopped with my move to Nor Cal where I am an hour and a half inland but when I make my visit down South I still hit Trestles and HB and the like so I guess I have not totally abandoned it… But when I surf(ed), I wear/wore what I wanted and did not think it was signaling anything. If anything I wore more skater clothing but again, I don’t see how wearing what’s comfortable is signaling. Maybe I am not fully understanding what you are trying to say…
Legal nonsense. Can you please explain to me like I’m in first grade why I cannot show respect in a clean pair of jeans and a t shirt? I’m glad you like your calling. GD teacher will always be my favorite calling even if I wouldn’t do it again.
For me the most costly signals aren’t the things we do but is the things we don’t do. We don’t call out BS in church meetings when we encounter it. We don’t share personal experiences where general counsel didn’t apply. We can’t share why the temple doesn’t help us grow closer to Diety, or why endless meetings away from the people we care most about doesn’t serve us, or how some policies have deeply damaged those we love. The inability to be authentic was hardest for me.
Good post. Lots of things listed that I agree with. Let me add another one that I haven’t yet seen:
Throwing your “less active” kids under the bus as a kind of virtue signaling. This happened in testimony meeting today. Someone who was just called to a leadership position got up and clearly wanted to signal their own righteousness. They used a lot of phrases like, “unfortunately, my less active son is getting married and because he’s less active, and we’re worried about whether the marriage will last,” etc. That kind of stuff. I find it particularly insidious when people throw their own children under the bus in order to demonstrate their own righteousness. And this kind of signaling is potentially really costly, since it might, if the kid finds out what you said, cost you the love and trust of your own child. I know it was uncharitable and unkind of me to think this, but my first thought after I heard that crap was, “man, I’m sure glad I’m not your kid.”
@BishopBill, I am think my understanding is what is meant by costly signaling differs slightly, in the sense that I think costly signals is intended to be an “honest” (not easily counterfeited) signal of one’s genetic fitness or inner qualities to potential mates or individuals considering whether to make an alliance or grant trust.
So I agree that walking around wearing surfer gear does not fulfill the requirements of an honest signal of fitness and courage to a potential mate or allies, while posting of pictures on Instagram or W&T blog showing you doing the real thing is, I don’t think you are doing costly signaling to the surfing community (they are judging your actual performance) but you are doing costly signaling to other audiences who do not have time or expertise to judge your fitness and courage directly.
So in terms of the LDS church, what are costly signals to potential mates or allies that signal your devotion to the LDS church and to its leadership so they can trust you ?
I agree with Toad and others that wearing garments and serving a mission for a full term are two costly signals used by potential mates and allies to infer that you are committed to the LDS church, because both indicate willingness to pay a lot of money and commit a lot of time, but also to suffer for the cause.
Some others:
For youth, it’s going to every early morning seminary class or every single youth activity regardless of how these damage sleep, worsen academic or sports performance, or keep them from participating in other worthwhile secular activities.
For high school seniors, it’s chosing to go to BYU instead of far more prestigious universities that they were admitted to.
For young couples, it’s getting married at 20 and having babies at 21 when they can barely afford rent and tuition at the same time.
For older couples it’s to keep having kids when you can’t even afford to feed and clothes and provide opportunities for the six you already have.
For even older couples, it’s going on a mission instead of enjoying retirement or being with grandkids .
For some members, it going to weekly “leadership” meetings on Sunday away from family where nothing meaningful is accomplished. For others, it’s serving in callings that they absolutely dread. For example in the old days, it was men called to be full-time scouters giving up their family vacation time and weekends to go on Scout trips. For women it is being called at the last second and being expected to make a meal or watch the kids of some unfortunate soul.
For many women, it’s burying their professional training and talents to stay at home.
For most members, it is coming weekly to sit in the pews for several hours of uninspiring worship services.
Legal nonsense
Mavericks isn’t in So Cal, so Carpe diem
Bishop Bill
Hats off to anyone getting in the cold water. Long Long time ago did a little diving, so long johns under the wet suit for me. I guess I’m signaling I’ma wimp.
And what’s up with tourist temples. I’ve seen my parents slides, why? When in Rome…the temple should be the Pantheon
Anna
Keep riding and having fun. Is fun a virtue? To heck with good ol’ boys clubs.
Janey
Congrats on the awesome haircut
Example of costly signaling in the Church: Agreeing to live by the Word of Wisdom (mostly prohibition of tobacco, alcohol, coffee and tea) as a condition of baptism and for being a member in good standing. It is a commitment we make to be a member of the group. Parts of it make good sense, other parts do not, and we tend to miss the bigger picture anyway. It has devolved into a public yardstick of “worthiness” .
Costly signaling in the church only works because Mormon ‘culture’ encourages and supports such behaviors. TBMs love to be part of their local self-righteous cliques.
Savvy signalers use social media to monetize their narcissism. Kind of like the Mormon YouTubers arrested recently for unspeakable abuse. You’ll find their story in the NYT and WaPo – but not in the Dnews or on KSL.
When I think of “costly” signalling, it can’t just be normal stuff that you would do anyway or that doesn’t carry a high social cost. It’s things like saying no to something that’s normal, something that makes you stand out or limits what you are allowed to do. Things that I would put in this category would be things like: 1) wearing too many layers when it’s 110 degrees in the summer thanks to garments, 2) refusing to date any non-members, even if you really like someone, 3) not going to any parties with your friends in high school and acting in disapproving ways toward them, 4) losing a job for refusing to work on Sundays, 5) wearing church clothes all day on Sunday and making sure everyone knows about it, 6) not letting your kids watch TV on Sunday or do homework, making them do it the night before.
One thing along the lines of the Sunday thing that often pisses me off is the idea of not going out to eat on Sunday to avoid making others work, but not giving a damn while mom slaves over a pot roast all afternoon.
1) Bishop Bill- Thanks fir the trigger topic.
2) I’ve sat back since this was first posted to take other comments in and to reflect on what this has meant to me since I joined the Church in 1976 as a teenager. For the first 15 – 20 years, I followed the example and teachings of those first members that surrounded me (influencers) and who “taught” me how to be a Latter-day Saint, following and adhering to all the orthodoxy I was taught. When I first heard President Kimball and the other GA’s teach all young men should serve a mission, I did it. It meant after an exemplar high school career years with great grades, etc., I took 1 1/2 years off after my graduation to work and save for my mission instead of attending college as was my goal. I did it because it was my Red Badge of Courage. I was going to do it to show all around me I was a good member even though I was very inexperienced. Because that was I was taught to do. This and much other consecration of time and energies and monies as a teenager/early 20’s I executed. My parents offered no help even though they were members. I participated in the ward budget service projects as a late teenager because that was I was taught to do by these influencers. I could go on.
I married my wife in the temple without my grandparents and extended family being able to experience the marriage of their first grandchild because I was taught that was the right way to do things. And as a Church leader until recently, I taught many recent Church converts these same concepts. Costly signaling.
I could say much more of the my consecration of time, energy and assets over the years until I recently became “woke” to the near cult like attitudes I had developed. Costly signaling.
In retrospect, I would say all this and so much more as a mission field influencer has become my “costly signaling” that I did all in the name of trying to establish my bonafides as a TBM.
1) Thanks Bishop Bill for posting the trigger subject.
2) As a convert to the Church as a teenager in 1976, I would say everything I did for the first 25 plus years of membership was at some level “costly signaling” as I strived to establish my bonafides as a TBM. W of Wisdom? Adhered to including no carbonated soft drinks and even Tylenol because that was what I was taught by the first Church members that I was surrounded by…my early “influencers” I call them now. Pres. Kimball’s/other GA’s call that all young men should serve a mission? Done. In spite of the fact in retrospect I gave up my dream to attend college after an exemplar high school career because that’s what all young men are to do. I saved up and supported myself on my mission because that is what I was taught to do. I married in the temple but my grandparents and extended family couldn’t go (non-members) see the marriage of the first grandchild. That was what I was taught to do. I gave up a lucrative side career because I was taught I wasn’t consecrating enough of my time to help establish the Church in an inner-city branch. We moved once because we were taught the Church needed my wife and I in a rural ward to help it become a stronger.
All of this in retrospect I would say could be termed “costly signaling”. A lot of consecrated time, energies and monies.
To try to establish my bonafides and “move up” in the Church hierarchy. Then came my “woke moment” when I realized in myself the cult like behaviors I was practicing. It has become a long 15 – 20 years of depression and deprogramming and trying to come to a realization of who I really am.
All in the name of “costly signaling”.
Nice shot, close-out explosion! Reach out next O’ahu trip, we can share a few…
In Hawaii, we don’t have virtue-signaling, unless the Utah transplants bring it into our ward. We let them embarrass themselves at the pulpit for a few months, and ease them into the community joke. The culture of Hawaiians/Polynesians is naturally virtuous, so that speaking about one’s virtues is usually in the form of self-ridicule, self-shaming, something depreciating. It’s refreshing and humorous, all light-hearted stuff.
I did notice some folks, mostly transient LDS military couples and families, who bore testimony about the goodness of mRNA experimental gene therapy to prevent flu-like symptoms. They were routinely sicker than everyone else. Maybe they got the wrong dose or a bad batch? Maybe their faith wasn’t strong enough?
When President Nelson invited LDS to support the mRNA experimental gene therapy to remedy flu-like symptoms, I interpreted it as institutional signaling to protect the Church from criticism. If LDS were seen to be collectively against the experiment, it would have harmed the Church. Now that overwhelming data (double-blind randomized control trials) have emerged, showing negative efficacy, lies at the CDC, and multi-billion-dollar criminal and civil fines against the corporations who produced the experiment, it’s time for LDS to take a mature breath of fresh air, and realize that in a Global Church, we ought to get used to signaling: in some cases, leadership is speaking to the congregation, and in other cases, leadership is speaking to worldly institutions. Our task is to discern between. Won’t be easy.
I’ve heard it said that a good bishop or stake president will always have an office/piano room/ visiting room with doors for private conversations adjacent to the entry of their home. I always thought this was curious and maybe it was a thing of the past but I’ve heard of people looking for this specific feature when looking for a new home. Definitely some signaling going on there. My sister’s home had this feature and I immediately asked her if her husband was planning to be a bishop when I first saw it.
Great post, Bishop Bill!
Signaling is a huge part of our church culture and some forms of signaling are extremely costly. Over the years, I have purposely counter-signaled from time-to-time. Sometimes I would do so on purpose, and other times it was more inadvertent. For example, I don’t like white shirts. I think they are boring so I would mix it up a bit. I wore blue shirts, red pinstripes, window pane, etc. I started doing this shortly after my missions and it horrified my mother. She was afraid people would think I was guilty of major sins and my wearing a blue shirt was a way of telling the bishop I wasn’t available to bless the sacrament or do other things. I told her that’s nonsense, that the color of your shirt is not a moral issue and shouldn’t matter. I told her I wanted to be a little less Mr. Mac and a little more fashion forward. As a married man and father, I continued to counter signal, except the years I spent in bishoprics I was told ‘yes’ when I asked my bishop if I absolutely had to wear a white shirt. When we moved and I wanted to delay being asked to serve in a calling, I would counter-signal. Here are some of my favorite counter signals:
-Wear a blue shirt instead of a white shirt
-Don’t wear a tie–go open collar
-Skip the bread when the sacrament is passed while lipping to bishopric member staring at you, “gluten sensitive”
– If people ask you where you served a mission, making conversation just to get to know you, answer, “[Your Mission]…it was the best nine months of my life”*
-Bring a copy of Charles Darwin’s “On the Origin of Species” with you to church, say nothing**
-Spend the second hour talking in the hallway
-Put a Chili’s $20 gift card in the fast offering envelope with a note about paying “in-kind”
*My family and I moved into a new neighborhood and attended our new ward. In HP group meeting, the leader asked me to introduce myself, what temple my wife and I were married in and what mission I served in. I thought to myself that’s presumptive. How would it feel if I hadn’t been married in the temple or hadn’t served a mission? I stood and rambled on about myself for a few moments and said, “I served in the such-and-such mission…and it was the best nine months of my life.” Dead panned it. No one laughed and I sat down. Oops, that joke bombed. I told my wife and she was horrified. I told her I thought it was kind of funny despite no one laughing. She was sharp and may have called me an idiot, remarking that none knew me so how could they know I have a dry and poorly developed sense of humor? Anyway, I forgot about the whole thing. Six months later a ward member and I were talking in the hall after church. He paused and said, “Hey, when you first moved in you said in HP group that your missions was the best 9 months of your life. Did you come home after nine months?” I said no, I was joking but that the joke was in bad taste, and I apologized because coming home early isn’t something to make fun of. He said he wasn’t offended but was worried about me. That speaks to the power of signaling!
**I have a son who would bring books to read in church because he said it helped him enjoy the meeting more. He was honest, at least. One Sunday he is reading Darwin, and a woman off to the side is staring at him in utter bewilderment. I’ve always gotten a kick out of that. He is a curious person, and a wonderful man without guile who went on to attend a top university out of state and has done wonderful things. He was the kid who would ask his teachers heartfelt and serious questions about Mormon theology that they couldn’t answer–questions we should all be asking, but that do not conform to the right signaling. Members in our ward had no idea what to think of him.
In a culture that rewards conformity, counter signaling is also costly.
My favourite anti-signal.
I was asked to give a talk, and at the end finished it with the closing line from Freakonomics podcast “Look after yourself, and if you can, someone else as well” and then sat down.
Thank you for a great list BigSky – the signaling goes both ways and my mental health is so much better now that I have started to work out my own salvation independent of saying the right things, practicing freemasonry, scrubbing toilets, and/or propping up the only true and living hedge fund.
Just trying to set some boundaries so I don’t get an ironic request to minister to brothers who are struggling. My days as PIMO are numbered and I prefer the signaling of loving Bon Jovi, honky-tonks and 7-11 (or Maverik or Holiday Oil here in Utah).
@Suzane Nielsen- I’m not sure why you mentioned Mavericks. If you note its a great place for surf, I agree, but I despise the San Francisco area these days. Plus the water tastes strange. I know that sounds weird, but I swear it does. I hit Trestles down in San Onofre and HB just for nostalgia I guess…
@Chadwick- Why not go to church in that? Its your choice! Just yesterday there was some guy sitting behind me in shorts and a tshirt and no one batted an eye. Is it perhaps more your concern over clothing than others? Go as you want. I just don’t mind a shirt and tie since I am in them pretty much all day anyway.
@ Legal Nonsense certainly some wards are better than others at accepting diversity. However there’s a reason GAs dress like they do – they are signaling that’s how they expect us to dress.
True story – on my mission we had a well known GA visit and he said we should immediately arise in the morning dress in our suits and pray only in our Sunday best. His reasoning?? If you are approaching the ruler of the universe you should dress your very best. My mission president told us – after he left – to forget everything he said.
As the person in the suit it’s easy for you to say nobody batted an eye about the guy sitting behind you. Not trying to suit shame you but the Jesus I envision wouldn’t show up in a suit and tie.
Some thoughts on the clothing thing:
First, it feels like just another way the church prioritizes folks with white collar jobs. Why does everyone else have to buy and wear completely different clothes for Sunday, but business folk can just wear their usual, for the most part?
Second, I sincerely hope Legal Nonsense’s ward is just as tolerant as he thinks they are. I can tell you quite a few stories, though, about what might be happening “behind the scenes.” Some examples:
(1) A good friend would frequently wear nice sun dresses with a cropped cardigan on top. (Didn’t wear garments, so it really didn’t matter.) A sister in the ward invited her to go shopping together, so they could pick out some “more appropriate dresses.”
(2) My eldest is on the autism spectrum, and has very specific clothing needs and preferences. When he was young, that meant shorts and sandals in the summer. They were nice leather sandals (he was very specific about having dress sandals and play sandals) and more tailored shorts. I don’t know if anyone said anything directly to him, but I got multiple comment every summer about them. My response meant most people only said something to me once, but there were a couple that were regulars.
(3) Child #2, also on the autism spectrum, had very different clothing needs and preferences. As part of that, they wore polo shirts to church. Until age 12 or so, the shirts were a variety of colors. Every time a white shirt came up in the rotation, there would be at least one person who would make a comment about how nice it was to see Child #2 wearing a white shirt. I shut down the folks who said something to me, but the message came through loud and clear. It’s only white, long sleeve polo shirts now.
I’ve been told the area I live in is uniquely awful (someone un-ironically used the old barn/new coat of paint quote; a member of the bishopric assured the ward, in sacrament meeting, that our physical appearance was and always would be very important to HF), but I have lived here too long to have anything to compare it to.
How about these forms of Mormon virtue signaling:
1. You enter someone’s professional office (like an attorney or accountant) and they have LDS scriptures conspicuously in full view somewhere;
2. You enter a professional lobby (say, your dentist) to be greeted by Arnold Friberg prints or photos of temples;
3. Those little stickers on the back windows of cars (usually a gas-guzzling SUV) that show off how many children you have;
4. Wearing US flag pins on the lapel of a suit at church;
5. Always mentioning previous church callings when talking (back when I was the RS president, we had a sister who . . . .);
6. People standing up silently when a church authority enters the building (this often happens in leadership meetings when apostles come in, and after a few seconds, they signal everyone to sit down . . . after a few seconds).
7. People with children serving missions who get up in testimony meeting and tearily humble-brag about how “hard it is” to have their child serving the Lord , but somehow they will make it through (sob).
@Legal nonsense, thank you for your response. Unfortunately, you didn’t answer my question.
You wrote in comment 1: “I also wear “church attire” because I see it as a sign of respect.”
Then you wrote in comment 2: “Is it perhaps more your concern over clothing than others? Go as you want.”
You brought up clothing as a marker of respect and I asked you to explain, as I believe that demeanor shows respect more than clothing but was open to understanding why you feel otherwise. Then you respond by saying I’m the one concerned with clothing and that I should go as I want. Which is it?
Travis,
Apparently I have been following different media sources than you have. You share information like it’s obvious facts that everyone is aware of, however the things you mentioned are new to me, particularly the COVID and mRNA based comments. I recommend you post your sources for the “overwhelming data (double-blind randomized control trials)”. I am always willing to consider new information but it’s important also to evaluate the reliability and slant of the source.
@Iws329, thank you for asking. No politics or opinions here, just medical analysis of data sets and randomized control trials.
Vinay Prasad, MD MPH
https://youtube.com/@vprasadmdmph
Dr. Been Medical Lectures
https://youtube.com/@DrBeenMedicalLectures
Merogenomics
https://youtube.com/@Merogenomics
Dr. Hong’s Pharmacy Classroom
https://youtube.com/@DrHongsPharmacyClassroom
@Iws329, I am not able to post 4 YouTube links to data analysis by medical professionals. It seems that W&T does not want it posted here.
@Iws329, try a YouTube channel search:
Dr. Vinay Prasad MD MPH
Dr. Been Medical Lectures
Merogenomics
Dr. Hong’s Pharmacy Classroom
No politics 0r rhetoric, just data analysis by reputable medical professionals. I recommend touring each channel, so you can come up with your own conclusions.
Here’s one that drives me nuts: parents referring to their missionary children as “Elser/Sister X.” Has their child’s uniqueness and identity totally been erased? It’s an odd form of virtue/costly signaling to me, particularly in that it seems to fully contradict any message about individuality with God – or is that not something the church even emphasizes anymore?
I frequently hear adults referencing their personal or family Come Follow Me study time when making comments in class or testimony meeting. I think this is a form of virtue/costly signaling.
To follow up on Allie’s comment – how about when a wife refers to their spouse as Bishop or President…and the husband refers to his wife as Sister. Our bishop’s wife does this all the time and also in a recent stake conference, the mission President’s wife called him President several times during her talk. The Mission President followed up during his talk but calling his wife Sister. Ughh
I live about 30 minutes drive from Surfers Paradise. We go there for a walk on the beach. The surfers don’t wear wet suits, so I wondered why you were. When I looked it up our water temperature is 10f higher than yours. The wave in the background looks good.
Our beaches are all public property and the land behind is developed with BBQs toilets and car parking all free. The joys of big government.
Talking about signalling, a hotel near where we go to the beach has 2 new Rolls Royce’s parked by the front door.
Geoff – Aus
Gosh, you got me looking up temps. I see 21c 0r 69.8f. (and I won’t go swimming in that. Too colddd) So I looked up a few in driving distance of me north to south,– Fort Bragg 54.1f, Rodeo Beach(the best dog beach in the galaxy) 63.5 Sand Dollar Beach 56.8f, Pismo Beach at 59.9. I’m trying to figure out the outlier and can only conclude Dogs are divinely favored because they’re super virtuous. And they don’t wear wetsuits.
I have no idea what beaches dogs go to in Southern California or Australia. Or what wetsuits signify, other than God could be a canine.
W&T family,
What is so offensive, or negative about sharing medical data analysis when requested from a fellow commenter? It’s the most peculiar thing. Are double-blind randomized control trials threatening to agendas? For the record, I was fully compliant with the experiment, and, after considerable research, admit the error. And as far as “signaling” is concerned, there’s a legitimate case from a Church-institutional standpoint, as well as from a personal health standpoint—and plenty of virtue-signaling around the contentious issue. No need to be afraid of science. Be afraid of media, censorship, and the politicization of health policy. I’m surprised that the intelligent folk here at W&T would express aversion to scientific analysis of these medical data. Expert analysis of scientific data is neutral: we might even learn or gain from it. Aloha.
We’re always signaling group status to others whether inside the church or out of it. The most fascinating to me is how we try to signal membership to groups we want to belong to but don’t, or even fake membership entirely to appear to belong when we feel like we should. I do this with talking about sports at work…nearly everyone in my department talks endlessly about football (both the actual sport and fantasy football) – EVERY meeting starts with some discussion about it. There is not a sport on this planet I care about less than American football, but I spend a little time every week glancing through scores to and headlines to keep up an appearance of at least nominal interest in something they all care about passionately to help maintain work relationships.
Similarly in the church lane, I had a coworker who grew up in Alpine, Utah. We hired him out of college – he was the most cliche Alpine Mormon you’d ever met…except he wasn’t Mormon in the slightest. His family had moved there from California when he was young, but they never had any interest in joining the church. His dress and grooming were 100% return missionary style. He got married very young to the first girl he’d seriously dated. He’d never had a beer until his wife wanted to go on a trip to Ireland and he had a sip of Guinness. He would not swear ever and used all the cliche Mormon substitutes (“flip!”). All this to fit into the Alpine Mormon culture even though he had absolutely no interest in the church.
This post was nothing more than bashing people that do things differently than you.
To Lily’s point, there’s been a lot of bashing of pretty normative LDS things in the comments section (which is apparently a good way to generate upvotes on W&T).
There’s nothing wrong with wearing a white shirt and tie, saying “on my mission…,” standing up in testimony meeting, or most of the other things that have been mentioned. These are all socially acceptable and no things that signal being part of a specific group. Most of them aren’t exactly costly either.
It’s not much different than wearing classic golf attire while of the golf course…or even all the time, because you want to signal your love of golf. There’s nothing innately wrong with this, but it would be a problem if you started demeaning other golfers with different styles as somehow destroying golfing tradition.
It’s the same in Mormonism – The metaphorical white shirts and ties only become problematic when they’re used to either marginalize others and/or bludgeon them into submission. It’s just as shameful to bludgeon people who follow normative styles with your open-collared blue shirt…
I’m pretty sure Jesus could care less about what color of shirt you wear, how many earrings you have, or what your hair looks like…whether you’re intentionally trying to fit in, or intentionally trying to stand out.
It’s the same about mission experience…nothing wrong with talking fondly about two of the most formative years in your young adulthood. It can get old to hear the same thing repeatedly, but it’s not a problem unless it’s being used to shame others…so let’s stop shaming enthusiastic RMs, just like you wouldn’t want them to shame you for your differing ideas.
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As for REAL costly signals: Tithing is pretty costly it itself, but there’s nothing inherently wrong with choosing to donate. The kicker for me is tithing settlement: Once a year you sit in a room with the bishop while he holds a paper saying how much you’ve donated. You’re then asked to swear before God and his servant that it represents at least 10% of your income. If not, you can’t go to the temple to receive the covenants required for eternal salvation. It feels very “pay to win.”
As an active Mormon who, for better or worse, often finds himself in the reflected “light”of BYU, I only have one ask of the BYUs: do not make me embarrassed to be a Mormon.(I didn’t attend and my kids aren’t allowed to attend-not even as a safety school-unless they pay their entire way. My wife and I will pay full freight for any other school. We are 3 out of 4 so far with one kid still in HS.)
For my entire life, BYU has let me down on that very low bar. It is one dumb, backward thing after another which bleeds out of the BYU bubble and which I have to explain or put into perspective to my non-Mormon friends, co-workers, and acquaintances.
Now I have to explain, among other things, it took until 2023 for BYU coeds to wear shorts?
When I was TBM, I did things that could be interpreted as signaling, but I think I was sincerely trying to do what I believed I was supposed to do. When my Utah school orchestra went to Disneyland on a Sunday after a competition, I walked to church with a couple of friends. Cringe.(Maybe we somehow got a ride, because I don’t think it was close.) I paid a full tithing on the gross. Even when money was super tight. And we had little kids. Even on things like scholarships. But I didn’t tell anyone.
Over the years there were lots of church things I strongly disliked, like visiting teaching, going to the temple, temple open houses, etc. Those I did in a half-hearted way. I love to read, but could never get engrossed in the scriptures. I kept trying to get into a daily scripture routine, but it maybe lasted 3 days. I did read the scholarly-ish article The Ensign used to have, and fancied myself as scripturally literate. I’m kind of an introvert/extrovert. I am friendly and interested in people, but I like doing things by myself more. I strongly dislike planning things for other people. I didn’t like most callings, and perfected my half hearted methods, combined with last minute planning. Somehow I still did fun, meaningful things with the Cub Scouts.
I have one costly signaling thing I observed. I was with the ward YW organization at the time. The PP leader organized a very nice YW in Excellence evening. She invited a meaningful guest speaker the girls could relate to, had lovely decorations, and made a nice dessert. The newly formed stake YW presidency came. The dynamic president is very thin. The trio walked out at the end, not touching the dessert. I heard later that the the two counselors were afraid to go against the president. After that, I noticed how vegetables and water were often refreshments for stake activities. I think thin was more the aim than health.