Last month, two TV shows came to a conclusion. Both of them were great shows, but the messages couldn’t have been more different. One show, Ted Lasso, had an uplifting view of humanity, the power of connection, the ability of people to change, and the ultimate redemptive arc of each character. The other was Succession. Show creator Jesse Armstrong has said in interviews that he doesn’t believe people can change, and in Succession, they mostly don’t. Both of these shows are, in my view, equally plausible ways of looking at the characters. Can people change and learn from their mistakes? Or do they essentially refuse to face their choices and try to get away with things? Both shows include intergenerational trauma and acts of betrayal to different degrees; where the stakes are higher, the results are worse.
The key difference, why Succession’s outlook is so bleak, is that the characters are steeped in unearned privilege and have no trustworthy support network; everyone around them is there to use them for money and access to power. Absolute power corrupts absolutely, and is also very isolating. Ted Lasso is a masterclass in creating a supportive environment, assembling a group of coworkers who can discuss their feelings and personal problems with each other, and using a John Wooden coaching style to help his players face their immaturity, burgeoning fame, and team relationship issues.
For funsies, I decided to put some Mormon scenarios into ChatGPT to see what they would look like in the style of these two very different TV shows. In the first scene, we’ve got mission companions (based on Tom & Gregg from Succession) talking with their zone leader (based on Roman Roy).
INT. MODEST LIVING ROOM – DAY
Two MORMON MISSIONARIES, ELDER JENSEN and ELDER THOMPSON, sit on a worn-out couch, their white shirts slightly wrinkled. Elder Jensen, eager yet neurotic, fidgets with his tie. Elder Thompson, calm and analytical, reclines with a contemplative expression. ZONE LEADER, ELDER ROMAN, enters with an air of entitlement, exuding confidence.
ELDER JENSEN (nervously) Thompson, dude, seriously, what the f**k are we doing here? We’ve been knocking on doors, and it feels like we’re going nowhere.
ELDER THOMPSON (coolly) Jensen, relax. We’re doing our best. It takes time to make an impact and spread the message.
ELDER ROMAN (smirking) Ah, the ambitious ones, questioning the mission already? You boys are in for a wild ride. Let me give you a taste of reality.
ELDER JENSEN (defensive) And who the hell are you?
ELDER ROMAN (cockily) I’m Elder Roman, the Zone Leader, here to show you the ropes and teach you how to make things happen. The key is confidence, my friends.
ELDER THOMPSON (calmly) We appreciate your guidance, Elder Roman, but we also believe in patience and building genuine connections with people.
ELDER ROMAN (laughing) Patience, Thompson? That’s cute. We’re not here to make friends; we’re here to convert. Speed is the name of the game, my naive friend.
ELDER JENSEN (sarcastically) So, what’s your secret, Elder Roman? How do we convert the masses in record time?
ELDER ROMAN (smugly) It’s all about the show, my dear Jensen. Be charming, be persuasive, and most importantly, make it seem like they’re missing out on the greatest opportunity of their lives.
ELDER THOMPSON (skeptically) But Elder Roman, what about sincerity and authenticity? Shouldn’t our actions reflect the true values of our faith?
ELDER ROMAN (mockingly) Oh, Thompson, you sweet soul. Authenticity is overrated. We’re here to sell an idea, to make people believe in something bigger than themselves. It’s all about the art of manipulation.
ELDER JENSEN (frustrated) That doesn’t sit right with me, Elder Roman. We should be helping people genuinely, not just manipulating them into submission.
ELDER ROMAN (condescendingly) Jensen, my boy, you’ll learn soon enough. We’re not in the business of charity; we’re in the business of salvation. And sometimes, the ends justify the means.
ELDER THOMPSON (resolute) I believe in the power of genuine connection and compassion. That’s the true way to make a lasting impact.
ELDER ROMAN (raising an eyebrow) We’ll see, Thompson. We’ll see. But mark my words, the ones who make the biggest waves are the ones who bend the rules.
They sit in an uneasy silence, the clash of ideologies hanging heavy in the air, uncertain of the path that lies ahead.
FADE OUT.
ChatGPT, writing a scene based on characters from Succession, with “missionaries” Tom & Gregg (to make a Tomlette, you’ve gotta break some Greggs) with Zone Leader Roman Roy
Here’s that same scene again with Ted Lasso as the zone leader talking to missionaries Roy Kent and Jamie Tartt:
INT. MODEST LIVING ROOM – DAY
Two MORMON MISSIONARIES, ELDER JENSEN and ELDER THOMPSON, sit on a worn-out couch, their white shirts slightly rumpled. Elder Jensen, eager yet anxious, adjusts his tie nervously. Elder Thompson, calm and composed, reclines with a thoughtful expression. ZONE LEADER, ELDER LASSO, bursts into the room with an infectious smile.
ELDER JENSEN (nervously) Thompson, mate, what the blimey are we doing here? We’ve been going door to door, and it feels like we’re running in circles.
ELDER THOMPSON (calmly) Jensen, keep the faith, my friend. We’re making a difference, even if we can’t see it just yet.
ELDER LASSO (optimistically) Howdy, fellas! I couldn’t help but overhear your conversation. It sounds like you’re in need of a good ol’ pep talk. Mind if I join the hootenanny?
ELDER JENSEN (surprised) Uh, sure, Elder Lasso. What can you tell us that will turn this whole thing around?
ELDER LASSO (sincerely) Well, Roy and Jamie, let me tell you something. It’s not all about the wins and losses, you know? It’s about the relationships we build and the impact we have on others.
ELDER THOMPSON (curiously) But Elder Lasso, how can we make a difference when it feels like we’re hitting roadblocks at every turn?
ELDER LASSO (patting their shoulders) Oh, there will be obstacles, my friends. But it’s how we handle them that matters. We must approach each interaction with kindness, understanding, and a genuine desire to help.
ELDER JENSEN (doubtful) But what if they don’t listen to us? What if our words fall on deaf ears?
ELDER LASSO (cheerfully) Then we keep trying, Roy. We keep showing up, day in and day out, with our hearts open and our spirits unyielding. We may not win them all, but we’ll make an impact, no matter how small.
ELDER THOMPSON (inspired) You’re right, Elder Lasso. It’s not about immediate results; it’s about the journey and the connections we forge along the way.
ELDER LASSO (beaming) Exactly, Jamie! We’re here to be a guiding light for those who need it. Our kindness, our compassion, that’s what will make a lasting difference in their lives.
They sit in silence, a newfound sense of purpose filling the room, ready to face the challenges ahead with renewed determination.
ELDER JENSEN (smirking) Alright, Elder Lasso, let’s hit the streets and make a difference, one doorstep at a time.
ELDER LASSO (grinning) That’s the spirit, Roy! Remember, believe in yourselves, trust the process, and never underestimate the power of kindness. Onward, my lads!
They rise from the couch, united in their mission, ready to spread kindness and make a difference, one step at a time.
FADE OUT.
Let’s change things up a bit. Contrast that missionary dialogue with a “Succession” scene in which some of the apostles discuss the Ensign Peak Fund in the style of the 3 Roy siblings: Kendall, Shiv and Roman.
ChatGPT, writing a scene between “missionaries” Roy Kent and Jamie Tartt with “zone leader” Ted Lasso
INT. LUXURIOUS BOARDROOM – DAY
The opulent boardroom is filled with tension as the MORMON APOSTLES gather around an imposing table. Elder COOK, with a sharp and ambitious demeanor, sits confidently at the head. Elder HOLLAND, the calculating and charismatic figure, leans back in his chair. Elder BEDNAR, the unpredictable and impulsive member, fidgets restlessly.
ELDER COOK (smirking) Well, well, well. Looks like our precious Ensign Peak Fund has caught some heat. How do we handle this mess, gentlemen?
ELDER HOLLAND (cunningly) Let’s not lose sight of the bigger picture, Elder Cook. Our financial prudence has secured our power and influence. We can’t let some bad press tarnish that.
ELDER BEDNAR (excitedly) I say we embrace the controversy! Lean into it! It’ll make us even more notorious. People love a scandal, don’t they?
ELDER COOK (raising an eyebrow) Bednar, we’re not running a tabloid here. We need to protect our image while maintaining control. Any rash moves could endanger everything we’ve built.
ELDER HOLLAND (slyly) But Cook, my dear brother, this scandal could be an opportunity. We can reshape the narrative, come out on top. It’s all about perception.
ELDER BEDNAR (eagerly) Perception, perception! I love it! Let’s do some PR damage control and turn this into a goddamn triumph! Make those headlines work for us!
ELDER COOK (cautiously) Fine, Holland. But we need a solid plan. We can’t afford missteps. We’ll allocate a portion of the Ensign Peak Fund to create charitable programs. We’ll show the world we care.
ELDER HOLLAND (smirking) Yes, Cook. We’ll show them we’re not heartless, that we’re the righteous shepherds leading our flock. Let them marvel at our benevolence.
ELDER BEDNAR (mockingly) Oh, how magnanimous! The saviors of the faithful. We’ll have them eating out of our hands, won’t we?
ELDER HOLLAND (calmly) Bednar, control your tongue. We have an opportunity to solidify our power. Let’s not squander it with petty arrogance.
The room falls silent as each apostle contemplates the intricate power play unfolding before them.
ELDER COOK (grinning) Alright, gentlemen. Let’s execute this plan flawlessly. We’ll turn this Ensign Peak Fund debacle into a masterclass in manipulation. Our legacy depends on it.
ELDER BEDNAR (excitedly) Oh, the drama! The intrigue! It’s going to be a wild ride, brothers. Let’s make the world bow to the might of the Mormon empire!
ELDER HOLLAND (sly smile) Indeed, brothers. Let the games begin. We’ll shape our destiny and secure our dominion over the faithful. No scandal can break us.
FADE OUT.
ChatGPT
All right, let’s see just how different this scene reads with a little Ted Lasso infusion.
INT. MORMON APOSTLES’ MEETING ROOM – DAY
A spacious and elegantly furnished room with a long mahogany table. Twelve LDS Apostles, distinguished in their appearance, sit around the table. Elder Oaks, the senior apostle, presides at the head.
ELDER OAKS Gentlemen, thank you for joining me today. We have an important matter to discuss—the Ensign Peak Fund.
The Apostles exchange intrigued glances, leaning forward in their seats.
ELDER HOLLAND (leaning back, intrigued) Elder Oaks, what’s all this buzz about the Ensign Peak Fund? I’ve heard whispers, but the details have eluded me.
ELDER OAKS (smiling) Well, brethren, it’s time to unveil the brilliance of this gem. I propose that we tackle this challenge with the spirit of the Diamond Dogs.
The Apostles share puzzled looks, their curiosity piqued.
ELDER BEDNAR (confused) Elder Oaks, forgive my ignorance, but what exactly are the Diamond Dogs? I’m not familiar with that reference.
ELDER OAKS (chuckling) Ah, my dear brothers, let me enlighten you. The Diamond Dogs is a group of individuals who embody resilience, loyalty, and unwavering determination. In the same way, we can approach the Ensign Peak Fund with these same principles.
ELDER RENLUND (nods) So, you’re suggesting that we create our own version of the Diamond Dogs to address the Ensign Peak Fund?
ELDER OAKS Precisely! The Ensign Peak Fund is a remarkable treasure entrusted to our stewardship. Like the Diamond Dogs, we may not possess extraordinary abilities or resources, but we can conquer any challenge with unity, humility, and unyielding faith.
ELDER COOK (interested) Elder Oaks, I’m starting to see the connection. By forming our own version of the Diamond Dogs, we can ensure the Ensign Peak Fund fulfills its purpose to bless the lives of many.
ELDER OAKS (smiling) Exactly, Elder Cook! We shall be the Apostolic Diamond Dogs. Through collaboration and unwavering dedication, we can overcome financial obstacles, uplift the Church’s work, and make a profound impact on the world.
The Apostles exchange excited glances, a newfound sense of camaraderie filling the room.
ELDER STEVENSON (inspired) So, it’s not solely about managing funds; it’s about fostering a brotherhood, a team devoted to advancing the Lord’s work. We are building a legacy.
ELDER OAKS (enthusiastically) Indeed, Elder Stevenson! Let us roll up our sleeves, don our game faces, and embody the spirit of the Diamond Dogs. We are ready to embark on this extraordinary journey together.
The Apostles rise from their seats, united in purpose and determination. They gather around the table, their hands clasped together, ready to embrace the spirit of the Diamond Dogs and steer the Ensign Peak Fund towards a future filled with divine impact.
FADE OUT.
ChatGPT, scene of the Mormon apostles discussing the ensign peak funds as if it was a scene in Ted Lasso
First of all, a few quick observations. These aren’t very good “episodes” of either show, LOL.If you were concerned that chatGPT is going to resolve the writer’s strike, rest assured, it’s not ready for PrimeTime yet. But what the contrast of these two shows illustrates is that realistically, every group interaction is more often a mix of both characters who are capable of reflection, self-awareness, selflessness, trust and manipulation, self-deception, selfishness, and betrayal. And every individual can exhibit those characteristics, too. In both shows, there are moments of redemption as well as moments of self-deception and denial. But in Ted Lasso, pretty much every character grows and changes, in large part through the influence of the titular character, and in Succession, the succession itself (and toxic family patriarch) prevent such personal growth.
The ultimate vision of the show-creators may differ, but it feels like it’s in part because Ted Lasso is a middle class guy with a fairly normal set of relatable challenges (divorce, absent father, being put into a job to fail), but in Succession, the Roy kids are in the exceptionally unrelatable situation of being billionaires, children of an abusive, distant and hypercritical father and an absent and self-absorbed mother, surrounded by scheming sycophants and toadies, and like rats in a bucket, they all turn on one another in a frenzy. Their moments of insight are poignant but often fruitless in terms of personal growth.
Malcolm Gladwell described the inverted U-curve effect in parenting in his book David & Goliath. Kids who are the children of extreme poverty and children who are raised in extreme wealth have equally bad outcomes on average. The challenges they face may differ greatly, but the circumstances of both poverty and wealth, of disenfranchisement and power, both can create a vacuum of reliable support that leads to character devlopment and success. That might explain the differences, but lest we forget, these are just TV shows, after all. They are meant to entertain.
The introduction of power into personal relationships and teams makes it much harder for individuals to maintain the type of supportive relationships that can lead to personal growth. Instead, there is a tendency for individuals to jockey for power and leverage. All hierarchies are prone to this problem, and results vary only in degree.
- Which view of humanity do you find more compelling? Do you believe people can change? How much?
- Did you watch either or both of these shows? What did you like or dislike about them?
- Which of these fake church scenarios in the style of a TV show did you find more realistic or compelling?
- Have you observed the inverted U-curve issues with those in extreme wealth or poverty?
Discuss.
Wheat & Tares 
My wife and I watched both shows and we really enjoyed them for different reasons. One was uplifting with characters you really cared about. The other was doom and gloom with nobody to really root for. The former was fantasy and pretty unrealistic but yes, pleasant. The latter was much more realistic and therefore compelling in this viewer’s opinion.
• The Ted Lasso view of humanity at least offers a modicum of hope. Given the right circumstances and guidance, I believe people can change. Unfortunately, Mormonism does not encourage real change because the leadership refuses to take bold steps. They are afraid of alienating the older, conservative congregation.
• I watched both shows. After the death of Logan Roy, Succession became formulaic and predictable. We found ourselves assigning GA names to the characters. Shiv is Sheri Dew to a fault, Roman is the ever-fidgety Bednar, Kendall is Oaks always looking to control, and Connor’s failure to grasp reality perfectly mirrors the remainder of the Q15. Ted Lasso at least offered relatable human insights absent in Succession.
• The scenario describing Elders Cook, Holland and Bednar cuts too close to reality. The quote: “We need to protect our image while maintaining control” is painful to read as it closely mirrors Mormonism in practice.
• One of the difficulties with managing the inverted U-curve phenomenon is related to the correlation of high levels of performance with the amount of pressure. There is a tipping point where high-pressure results in negative stress, anxiety, and poor performance. Kind of like the pressure applied to prospective missionaries who are reluctant to go.
I would strongly caution anyone who attempts to use any modern television program as a moral guide. The modern entertainment industry is the last place to look for moral guidance. That goes for both of these so-called programs.
The modern entertainment industry has an open and stated agenda of promoting substance abuse and wanton sexuality. Both of these shows promoted this agenda.
The shows portray marriage as a burdensome institution to be scorned and ridiculed. Indeed, they treat marriage as something to be avoided at all costs because it is the root source of all of the characters’ problems.
The same goes for substance abuse. The shows portray excessive drinking and drug use as if they are normal behaviors that have no harmful consequences whatsoever.
In essence, both shows present characters who behave like intoxicated Russian princesses left alone in the palace while the Tsar and Tsarina are away on assignment These characters are presented as role models who the viewer should look to for guidance.
The irrefutable fact is that wanton, uncontrolled sexuality and substance abuse have harmful effects for both the individual and society. This irrefutable fact was ignored by both programs. A gullible public will likely imitate the abominable behavior that was portrayed.
OK, JCSbot, I’ll bite. One of your tropes has always been that TV and movies will lead to the moral downfall of society, and I’ve come to believe that they are the last best hope for humanity. Whatever your political or religious divide, watching a well-crafted series or movie allows you to grapple with deeply human questions and problems in a pretend-setting, rather than experimenting with drugs, infidelity, or spycraft yourself. We discuss what we see, and thereby learn more about ourselves. Even more importantly, a well-written show (like theater used to do, which was also decried as a moral hazard), creates empathy by introducing other perspectives to us: the poor (or the wealthy), the outsider, LGBTQ characters, different races, political views, cultures, and other sexual identities. This is frankly what changes societal prejudices, when very little else will.
“The shows portray marriage as a burdensome institution to be scorned and ridiculed” I’m sure you don’t really believe this because neither show does this. In Succession, marriage partners reap what they sow. They destroy their own support networks through infidelity and selfishness. In Ted Lasso, despite our siding with the main character in his own crumbling marriage, his wife is portrayed with empathy as she embarks on her new future. Nobody survives unscathed, though. It’s a messy business when marital partners aren’t there for each other.
“The shows portray excessive drinking and drug use as if they are normal behaviors that have no harmful consequences whatsoever.” Another case where you must be joking because neither show does this. It’s not really a theme in Ted Lasso (I can’t really think of a character with a substance abuse problem off the top of my head), but it’s definitely a theme in Succession showing the incredibly life-altering damage that substance abuse causes: depression, suicidality, and manslaughter. It’s an absolute cautionary tale against substance abuse. If Succession isn’t enough to get a person to rethink substance abuse, I don’t know what is.
“A gullible public will likely imitate the abominable behavior that was portrayed.” Again, I think this is something you are saying tongue-in-cheek. I really do think that your comments are AI generated based on the fictional character John Charity Spring in the Flashman books.
What prompts did you use? I’m pretty sure that both of these shows and EPA were absent from the chatGPT training set?
JCS –
“The modern entertainment industry has an open and stated agenda of promoting substance abuse and wanton sexuality.”
– And the bible has stories about female characters getting their father drunk so they could have sex with him and produce offspring – this isn’t a “modern entertainment industry” innovation.
“Indeed, they [the show writers] treat marriage as something to be avoided at all costs because it is the root source of all the character’s problems.”
Being married can be a source of problems. Being single can be a source of problems. To some degree, you get to pick your “problem” and what you do to escalate/de-escalate it being a “problem”.
“The irrefutable fact is that wanton, uncontrolled sexuality and substance abuse have harmful effects for both the individual and society…”
Wanton, Uncontrolled habits generally have harmful effects for both individuals and society. It seems the “wanton” level of disregard of habit impact and lack of control is the greater problem – which is why we have professional training for a lot of activities such as driving, piloting, surgery, firefighting, and other intense activities. It’s why health departments keep coming back to drug replacements and drug moderation to handle street drug addiction instead of focusing on getting addicts in their populations to quit cold turkey.
Mike Sanders: I had to think up the scenario (EPA meeting, missionaries talking to a ZL), then asked it to write it in the style of the show. I also had to be more specific about characters from the show to get something that even remotely resembled TV dialogue (as opposed to Judd Nelson’s portrayal of Anthony Michael Hall’s family life in Breakfast Club).
It wasn’t easy, and the results are (IMO) really bad TV writing, which is why I say ChatGPT isn’t solving the writer’s strike any time soon. Funnily enough, in Alan Alda’s podcast, he has ChatGPT write a M*A*S*H episode which he then does a dramatic reading of with former costar Mike Farrell. As he points out, it’s almost plausible, but still not great writing: https://clear-vivid-with-alan-alda.simplecast.com/episodes/alan-chats-with-the-bots
I watched both series. While Succession was fictional, it also felt like it was pulled from the headlines. The Roy siblings, wanting nothing financially, didn’t have a chance. Be a good person, lose daddy’s affection (too soft!). Be a bad person (challenge dad’s primacy), lose dad’s affection. And dad’s affection/respect was what these emotionally stunted offspring most wanted. Contrary to contrarian JCS’s view, there were plenty of moral lessons in this series. Ted Lasso was a joy from the beginning through the end. So very clever, witty, uplifting. Succession = no real connections = hell (a nod to C.S. Lewis). Lasso = connections and growth = happiness.
Can people change? Do people change? Yes, but the essential person still exists normally. I like the terms “improve”or “grow” better; they are more encompassing and better acknowledge the little changes along the way.
Which view of humanity do I find more compelling (inspiring, admirable)? Ted Lasso, duh. Succession was more a cautionary tale.
Wow. It’s as if Succession chatGPT transported itself back in time as a fly on the wall in a typical zone meeting on my mission. Eerie. To his credit, my first companion was much more like Ted Lasso. He never hesitated to break mission rules in favor of making personal connections with people. Even if we never taught them a single “lesson” (we called “discussions” in the way back time). Unfortunately, it took me toward the end of my mission to catch this vision. It might just be me, but it feels like missionaries lately are becoming more Ted Lasso – like (except for the occasional overzealous, pushy young man). I wonder if this is a gen z thing – young LDS people today are not as bombastically confident in the church’s truth claims as we were(?), or if this Lasso-like approach is more of a top down initiative. It seems that the church is inching toward something resembling an even split between proselytizing and service missions at some point in the near future… Maybe? Hopefully?
Angela: I had forgotten about Alan Alda’s podcast. I will have to put back in the rotation. IMO, not tv show in the last fifty years has done as well as what you described in your response to JCS, as MASH, though admittedly it was often a bit heavy handed. I still think it’s the gold standard for holding a mirror to society and grappling with deeply human problems. Please consider generating a MASH-Mormon chatGPT post in the future. 😉
mat: I too found the Zone Leader parallels with Roman Roy’s manipulative dialogue to be eerily familiar to my own mission experience. I hope you’re right that we are cranking out more Ted Lassos than Roman Roys (and Greggs and Toms) than we used to. Actually I’m pretty sure we still have a lot of morally flexible middle men in the Church (the Greggs & Toms). But I agree with your observation that young people today are more interested in people, connections, mental health, and freedom for the marginalized than people in my generation were (and we were in turn better than Boomers turned out once they got their own sexual & drug revolution out of their system), and they were better than the Silent Generation on these issues.
I’ll give the M*A*S*H one a thought. I already know who’s getting the Frank Burns role…
Angela: Yes, DHO would have made a great stick in the mud, rule obsessed, superior officer for Hawkeye to mock and annoy. I wonder how he would have felt about Sargeant Klinger’s wardrobe choices? 😂 On missionaries/young people, the church is going to have to come up with a compelling vision that engages them in the world in a positive way (maybe something closer to what Jesus actually taught, and not the “covenant path”), or it is going to lose them all eventually.
mat: Actually, I was thinking of a different apostle for Frank Burns, and maybe one might be Col Flagg…I could see some Charles Winchester potential in there, too.
I just want to say that missionaries and GAs swearing with abandon like Wall Street bros is absolutely hilarious.
“Which of these fake church scenarios in the style of a TV show did you find more realistic or compelling?”
Definitely the Succession scene. It’s hard to put a positive spin on the Ensign Peak scandals, even with Ted Lasso levels of positivity.
P.S. How do we tell if JCS is a bot? How would you set up something like that?