Many college athletes, especially black athletes, are unprepared for college. In this episode, we’ll talk to Dr Darron Smith of the University of Memphis to see how BYU’s graduation rate for black students compares to other colleges. I think the answer may surprise you. Dr. Smith says,
Vanderbilt has a very high GSR score, the Graduation Student Record. So basically when a student graduates from college, the university guarantees a student will graduate within a six year period after they have finished their years of eligibility. In this situation the students there have a much higher GSR, they graduate because the mission of Vanderbilt is education, not football. It’s why they don’t do very well. Occasionally they’ll do ok in basketball. Occasionally you have a fluke year where they’ll have a decent team. Generally Vanderbilt, when I was there in Nashville as a youth, they never did well because that wasn’t their mission. Their mission was education.
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[BYU has] The lowest [black graduation rate] in the state? I was surprised to see that, very surprised to see that. The data, all of that data, plus the GSR scores, the story is becoming clearer.
Check out the video, audio, or transcripts. But that’s not all. Black students are expelled 9 times higher than whites.
But there’s a reason for that though. It goes back to what you were saying before. It goes back to the fact that these young men are not Mormon. They don’t have the same—they don’t know the rules. They don’t understand the rules. They don’t understand the Honor Code is not just a code, it’s theology. It’s Mormon theology in a code. The Honor Code for Mormon students is kind of like, yeah I do it already. They don’t have to think about that, most Mormon students don’t. But black students, they don’t have that. They already come primed.
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The white athlete has the repentance process he can begin, initiate, almost immediately, whereas the African-American player who’s non-Mormon, they don’t have that same luxury, so for them, it’s a much harsher reprisal from the institution because they have none of those systems in place.
Smith recommends that BYU hire someone like Pastor France Davis of the Baptist Church in Salt Lake City to mentor non-LDS blacks when they run into Honor Code issues. What do you think of Smith’s observations and suggestions for improvement? Do you think Smith tells the situation fairly?
Wheat & Tares 
Actually, that’s not a bad idea (hiring a non-LDS pastor to mentor). It might not even be a bad idea for non-black, non-LDS students, especially athletes. Athletes recruited to play for a big-name college program, regardless of race, tend to be people who have always been treated with a certain amount of deference and even hero worship; they’ve been high school and local league stars, wined and dined during the recruiting process, and told how everyone liked and wanted them. In many cases, they’ve been led to believe that the rules didn’t apply to them like they do to ordinary mortals. Combine that with the missing theological understanding, as Prof. Smith points out, and you potentially have young people who treat the Honor Code much as I treated the Minnesota State High School League’s rules about drinking when I was a high school debater: “try not to get caught.”
Add to that lingering Mormon issues with race and the overwhelmingly, blindingly white nature of the BYU student body, and black students with no LDS experience could be forgiven for thinking they’d stumbled down some surreal rabbit hole. Some help would be a nice thing to offer.
I think that it is a good suggestion. I would like to see the stats of white non-Mormon students versus black. The honor code would be very difficult to follow if non-Mormon, especially if I come from a background without any similar standards or beliefs. I think it’s easier for married or two-year judo transfers to make it than someone who has to live the honor code for four years.
I should add that wasn’t Darron’s only suggestion. He also said BYU could “grow your own” counselors, such as former players who were converts, such as former football Kalen Hall who has converted to Mormonism. I wonder though if Kalen isn’t a bishop if he (or someone like him) could perform a bishop’s duties in the repentance process?
I was also surprised that BYU had such a low graduation rate. Smith mentioned that Utah and Utah State had numbers in line with the national average for blacks. Now of course, if a player has sex at Utah or Utah State, they don’t have to deal with the honor code like they do at BYU, but still I think something needs to be done rather than kicking out blacks to improve the graduation rate at BYU.
I find I am somewhat shocked that a university doesn’t have more concern for the actual education of its students, including its athletes. My view is that student sports should be just that, student sports, not big money, but what do I know…
Hedgehog;
Its actually worse than that. College and professional football exposes players to an unacceptably high risk of head injuries that often leads to mid-life dementia. Former BYU quarterback Jim McMahon is a great example. (Who as a non-LDS BYU football player habitually violated the Honor Code in Salt Lake almost every weekend and because he was so talented this was ignored.)
A good introduction to this problem of football head injuries can be found at: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Chronic_traumatic_encephalopathy.
If you want to read a more detailed description, many can be found on the internet, but this one is pretty good: https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC2995699/
For a list of the ~4000 former NFL players afflicted with CTE look here. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_NFL_players_with_chronic_traumatic_encephalopathy
I can’t get my head around that 4000 number. How great is the risk?
Consider there are 32 teams in the NFL, each allowed 53 players. That is 1696 players. The average player lasts 3.3 years. It would take 7 or 8 years to accumulate 4000 former NFL players. That has got to be more than 10% of all of those who ever played in the modern era. Maybe more like 20-30%?
A movie was made about this in 2015 called Concussion. Rated PG-13, so was that the reason nobody at BYU watched it? Mammas don’t let you bbabies grow up to be football players.
BYU football. Honors Code violations. Straining at gnats.
Swallowing camels of head injuries and dementia, in the name of higher education.
Its about the money. Hypocrites wearing blue and red alike..
The entire reason for BYU’s existence is to educate. That includes moral education. At BYU concern for students includes heavy subsidies for all student tuition, untold hours of religious sacrifice/service by faculty, staff and students on behalf of all student’s welfare. BYU’s mission is to provide secular education with a religious/moral context to ennoble and inspire to live upright lives. That goes for athletes also. This is done in an LDS setting. Prospective students of LDS, or any other religious background, must take the standards of the university seriously. The school does. If a student is not serious about taking advantage of the sacrifices made by others to make their stay at BYU possible, by living the standard, the code, then they should chose another option. There are many thousands of applicants who would desperately love to study and BYU, who were rejected by the very competitive process of admission, who are ready to step up and live according to their written promise to abide by the honor code. If a student makes code mistakes and sincerely wishes to continue at BYU the school has shown willingness to allow the student another chance, but the student must be sincere and serious in their commitment to live the standard Recent example; football superstar, Jamal Williams. It is in BYU’s commitment to it’s code, requiring students to actually live up to their side of the bargain, that BYU fulfills it’s mission, its real life, concrete concern for the education of it’s students.
Hedgehog,
I agree that the risk of concussion is not worth the benefit, but that is not an argument against the honor code. Black athletes regularly play other sports at BYU.
Explain to me how it’s all about money at BYU please.
Sorry, I was referring to Mike also.
Michael & Mike, I’m British. University sports competition here doesn’t even remotely approach the business levels it appears to do in the US.
Michael, more specifically I was referring to comments on costs made in the podcast discussion on whether the athletes should be paid and is it a business (though perhaps it was an earlier podcast with the same interviewee – since they are short, and I can mostly only stream when at home I tend to run them together – my comment may be better suited to an earlier post in that case…)
We have similar head injury arguments about rugby – and we don’t have any protective gear in rugby Mike.
As to how well non-member sports players are supported in the BYU cultural millieu (including the honour code), it would appear not at all well, and perhaps a non-denominational sports chaplain would be a very good idea.
Yes Mike, I just published a post today about the amount of money BYU could make if they join the Big 12 Conference. See https://gospeltangents.com/2017/05/10/how-do-minorities-fare-at-byu/
I believe Hedgehog is referring to my post on the Student Athlete Business. Many of these blacks at all colleges, not just BYU, are recruited for their athletic ability and are simply not prepared, and many do not even want to attend college. It is simply a stepping stone to the NBA or NFL. Ben Simmons, a freshman at LSU quit attending class following the basketball season. Why do we force kids to go to school? (There are students like this at BYU too.) See https://gospeltangents.com/2017/04/25/the-student-athlete-business/
For many black athletes, attending school is simply an unwanted stepping stone to the pros, and BYU’s appalling graduation rate seems to show they are more interested in winning and making $5 million from their ESPN football contract than actually helping students graduate. Please listen to the entire interview, but I posted a few comments above to give you a taste of it. Here’s a link to the interview quoted above: https://gospeltangents.com/2017/05/02/comparing-byus-black-graduation-rates/
I’ve loved sports all my life. Particularly football. More recently rugby.I have two high school age grandsons who are half tongan. They both play football and rugby and they both have sustained concussive head injury. It is heartbreaking. I think the sports culture will and is changing. When and if at BYU Prove is an open question.
I believe that inter collegiate sports is seen as a means not an end at BYU. If making more money results from joining a bigger conference it would be seen as a tangential issue, a requirement to compete, not an end. Coaches are not paid anywhere near what other big time schools are paid and never will be. Virtually everyone at BYU chooses to accept lesser pay than is available at other schools. This has always been and always will be. All who are involved with the school are asked to serve to further the schools mission of providing an opportunity for students to live LDS Church’s minimal standards in order to learn to become more Christ like. Money is important and part of the equation, but not the most important part.
Trying to compete at the highest level brings challenges at BYU that are , if not unique, pretty close to it. It is the same challenge we all face when living in the world, but not of the world. There is a constant tension between the requirements of living in a competitive world, a world that requires action, effort and comparative accomplishment and a world of spiritual values of giving, love and compassion. I believe that BYU is motivated and sincerely trying to strike what balance is possible in this realm.
If sports at BYU can not pay its own way, it will not last. Sports would then die earlier than later. Other LDS schools have discarded sports in order to dedicate resources to more direct educational functions.
As to non white students being offered specific assistance, I’d have to think about that. All students should have as much access to what BYU has to offer, as possible. If a black athlete, for example, is serious about his education, the he must know that the school is there, exists, for his benefit, to open up opportunities. But that is the case for all students. Any athlete at BYU ought to see the school as a great learning laboratory, a blessing offered thru other’s sacrifices so that he might be blessed in pursuing his goals and dreams. That is why BYU exists.
Michjael Clements:
This may surprise some, but I agree 100% with your 2:29 pm. explanation. 100 %!!!
My children did not want to go to BYU for this exact reason. They wanted a secular education separate from their religious and moral education at institutes with greater academic opportunities and reputation than BYU. And they wanted to create their own moral code themselves, influenced of course by family, local ward members, etc., but also by other mentors such as school teachers, coaches, music teachers and non-LDS boy/ girl scout leaders and others. They also wanted to be close to home but not live at home (we live 2000 miles from BYU).
One reason this happened was weak local ward leaders who, for one of numerous examples, cheated at lousy scouting and generally had poor YM/YW programs while all around them my children saw and we let them participate in the excellence in other church and school programs. This speaks directly to Mormon exclusivity, if we are the only true church, then why do we have among the worst programs for our youth upon whom we are supposedly focused?
Perhaps the biggest reason my children did not consider BYU was the examples set by the recent graduates from BYU who moved into our ward. By their outward zeal they acquired most of the callings with the youth. But by their actions they alienated the youth, where obedience to contrived rules not applicable to the lives of the youth was put far above compassion and understanding, where faking was allowed and excellence discouraged, where social isolation and clannishness not openness and friendliness to people outside the church was encouraged. The youth of our ward rejected BYU grads gripping too tightly the iron rod.
You might get a laugh out of this: Since our ward house is on property adjacent to the temple, every year BYU sent a team of recruiters to our building and parents with high school students of the proper age from miles around were invited to came and receive information on how and why go to college at BYU. My daughter and her little posse of 9 Mormon girls (with the help of a couple of little brothers), invariably dressed in red, protested the meeting and demanded equal time. Most years the local leaders kicked them out and tried punishing them. One year a BYU recruiter, with a causal smile on his face invited my daughter to take the stand and explain. He made a serious mistake if he thought she was bluffing. My daughter loves to be on stage and is very articulate and intelligent. She gave a very short but compelling case against attending BYU. So many angry parents. So many phone calls.
Oh, about the money. Playing a sport like football unintentionally ( until now) does serious harm to the brain, sort of like the opposite of education. Contrary to the first goal stated. And as for moral development, one of the horrible things about CTE is that it causes these big, strong, fast athletes to develop severe anger control problems along with the dementia, depression, etc.. They turn into dangerous aggressive animals and their wives and children suffer the brunt of it. Since the athletes are out of their right minds at this point, who bears responsibility? Does the institute that caused the problem own up or shirk from this moral responsibility? Does the greater society? Who leads and who follows?
BYU and every other institution of higher education is dependent upon donor giving to help finance the education provided. And those in the field of soliciting donations know that a lot more money is raised by alumni loyal to football than loyal to any other sport or any other program on campus. And when football teams win the money rolls in at increased amounts. This is part of the American culture and more particularly in the southern states but also in the midwest and most everywhere else.
My daughter has a t-shirt that displays the name of the ivy league school where she ultimately went to college. Below it is inscribed “never lost a football game’ and this is true for the last almost 100 years. They don’t have a football team because one of the principle donors to the school when it started to grow and come into its own had a son who was killed playing football back in the days before helmets and pads. If BYU had a moral backbone, they would eliminate the football program and possibly other dangerous contact sports and not wait until the rest of society leads the way and forces them to do it.
If BYU expects their students to follow an Honor Code, perhaps they should show some moral strength by doing things that might cost them money but are for the best of the students in the end. Unless the Honor Code is only about outward rules (and cheating to get around them and have what you want at any cost) not about right and wrong.
Mike,
You probably know what I am going to say.
I understand more now.
You expect more from BYU, you expect more from the Church.
Rightly so.
There are too many ways for human differences, even those of sincere people to miss the mark. The requirements of institutions do not account for enough needs of their members to keep from consistently disappointing, if not offending those members. BYU sets a framework, imperfect as it is, to allow students and faculty to work out their own salvation.
As you have so well described, living an inconsistent, outward law (exclusive) is no guarantee, is often a stumbling block, to having God’s law written in their harts. The human urge to misuse power, position or logic or charisma, self deception, self protective stances, is ever present. A very close/closed society brings peculiar challenges. However, I believe that each has the opportunity to make his own way, responsible to God based upon his own unique universe of experience and potential on this earth. I read hurt and deep disappointment in your words. If that is true, I understand it, at least to some extent, and am hurt by it. I’ve been there, I am there— my own spiritual CTE.
Michjael,
(Is that a typo?) I think you make a few assumptions that aren’t necessarily warranted.
“Virtually everyone at BYU chooses to accept lesser pay than is available at other schools.” Bronco Mendenhall left for greener pastures at Univ of Virginia. Steve Cleveland left for Fresno State. Ken Niumataluu (sp?) chose to stay at Navy rather than BYU.
“If a black athlete, for example, is serious about his education…”
Yes, but there are some athletes who are plainly not serious about education–hence the black graduation rate problem, as well as BYU’s standard response to kick them out swiftly for breaking the honor code. BYU is not so interested in education at this point, they want a player who can score touchdowns, or dunk the basketball which is why they recruited the non-LDS athlete in the first place.
If LDS athletes were the best athletes, BYU would have no use to recruit non-members at all. That’s the points I believe Darron Smith is trying to make here. How does BYU handle people that are not LDS, poor students, and great athletes? If BYU is recruiting them for athletic ability, fine but then they either need to give these students second chances as they do with white LDS athletes, or recruit only Mormons. It’s simply hypocritical to recruit for athletic ability and have no compassion when the student doesn’t graduate or fails to abide the honor code. If you want honor code students, recruit them and stay away from non-LDS athletes. You can’t have your cake and eat it too.
If you’re going to choose honor code students, fine, but don’t complain when you win as infrequently as Vanderbilt. Don’t complain that since you’re not in the SEC conference, that you don’t get as much money or exposure. Certainly the high profile scandals at Penn State, Ohio State, USC, and other big schools show that exposure can lead you to be exposed to scandals too. Vanderbilt on the other hand is squeaky clean.
In short, is BYU a losing, christian school, or a winning hypocrite like some of the other big time schools with scandals? And oh yeah, the Big 12 conference has it’s share of scandals at Baylor (murder and rape), Texas Christian (drugs), and Texas (bribery) to name a few. Are you sure you really want a piece of those scandals because you’re recruiting non-LDS black athletes who can help you win but also bring you down? Be careful what you wish for.
It’s a tough decision. Non sports fans are going to tell BYU to get out of the sports business. Sports fans want the best athletes and don’t care about graduation rates and honor codes.
MH,
It’s a typo.
You make my points better than I.
Those coaches left or are not at BYU— and got/get more money. The coaches, by non BYU standards, are underpaid at BYU.
BYU recruits athletes, members or not, and expects them to meet the same standard. If the school was corrupt as you claim, as other schools are, they would keep the athlete on the team, not expel him, in order to win. Your argument is a non sequitur. BYU follows thru with their side of the contract because the student has not.
BYU is willing to give students second chances, they do it often. Each student’s situation must be handled according to the facts of the case. If a student earnestly, sincerely wants another chance often that second chance is offered. Many opt not to commit again, but many do. Two high profile examples: A star basketball player self confessed to violation and was suspended. This right in the thick of the season when BYU was ranked as one of the elite teams in the nation and had a very legitimate chance at a national championship. He returned the next year and finished his education and athletic opportunities at BYU. He is now playing on a pro team outside of the USA. Two years ago a star football player was suspended. This year he broke the school rushing record and was drafted by an NFL team. Both players left school for a year and then were readmitted for a chance to make a new start. Both made good on their determination to finish what they committed to. Both are black.
BYU is trying to prove, has proven, that it can compete at the highest levels without resorting to corrupting the student’s education, or it’s own standard. There is evidence that this is possible. The BYU football team has a national championship. The basketball team has a long history of accomplishment well above average. The men’s rugby and volleyball teams regularly vie for and attain national championships. The various men’s and women’s teams are all quality programs, quality, REAL,:”student athlete” programs. BYU has one of the best all round athletic programs in the country.
If a non-LDS student wants a chance at what BYU has to offer, the school is happy to have them. The sacrifices made by millions of LDS make this possible. This is a virtue. Imagine the uproar if BYU excluded students because they were non LDS….
You are lumping BYU in with other school’s programs, you are the one who is making unfounded assumptions. It is because BYU holds it’s athletes to a high standard that they are making the case that true, committed, honest student athletic programs are at least worth the effort, if not successful.
MH, BYU’s commitment to it’s standard is not what corrupts, the standard is what sets it apart in it’s commitment to the welfare of the student above athletic money and glory.
.
Michjael,
I’m afraid this is a case of confirmation bias and I don’t think I’m going to continue the conversation if you can’t answer these questions satisfactorily.
(1) Did you listen to the previous podcast Comparing Black and White Discipline? It talks about Brandon Davies. What did Smith get right/wrong in that episode?
(2) Did you listen to the episode Comparing BYU’s Black Graduation Rates? How do you explain the fact that BYU has the worst black graduation rate in the NCAA?
(3) How do you explain the fact that 80% of those expelled at BYU are black? Are 80% of students at BYU black? Darron Smith explains the disparity not simply by race, but by saying this 80% of blacks expelled are primarily non-LDS. Smith explains that a white LDS student goes to a bishop for repentance of Honor Code issues and doesn’t get expelled. A black non-LDS athlete has no bishop and gets expelled. Do you agree or disagree with Smith’s reasoning that this disparity of treatment is a combination of race and religious factors, rather than simply race? (Note Brandon Davies was not expelled because he is LDS and had a bishop to help with repentance process. This seems to confirm Smith’s argument. Do you agree or disagree?)
Mormon Heretic,
I did not previously view the videos; I have now.
I agree with virtually every conclusion that Dr. Smith makes.
Black students and their families must be made aware of the seriousness of their commitment.
BYU must put systems into place to shepherd black non LDS athletes who are unprepared for honor code realities.
If the school is going to recruit non-LDS students, who’s preparation is so different and so inadequate for the BYU experience, then they must take more responsibility in teaching/helping those students be successful.
I apologize for not obtaining the information that is freely available on this subject thru the videos and written word. I should have made a greater effort.
Thank you.
Thanks Michael. I appreciate it.
Mormon Heretic;
What percent of the black students at BYU are LDS? And what kind of LDS? Corridor LDS is far different than growing up nominally LDS in a large inner city far from Utah. Same goes for first generation in contrast to multi-generation LDS.
If the majority of the black students at BYU are not very dyed-in-the -wool LDS if at all and the majority are athletes, who might have a different motivation to be there; in contrast to the non-athletes (restrict athlete in this case to football and basketball, the other sports do not have the same pressures, visibility and donation entanglements); then these skewed statistics might make sense. Disclaimer: I didn’t watch the video, just asking questions.
********
All:
I wrote this account a few years ago but I think it might add some depth to this discussion. The issue transcends LDS /non-LDS status because LDS black students still carry much of their culture into the church, for better and for worse. As do many from other cultures.
A young Black man was born under the covenant and grew up in my ward a few years ago. His dad is a good friend and fellow free-thinker, a convert after the manner of Eldridge Cleaver (Reformed Black Panther). The family has been featured in the Ensign back in the late ’70s as an example of new Black converts living the gospel when the children were small.
This young man was extremely gifted athletically. I got dragged into playing basketball against him for only a couple of minutes while the other guy guarding him stepped out for a recommend interview. He dunked on me twice and I can clearly remember looking at his socks which were about at eye level while he was doing it. He played with a smile and made me feel good about it in an odd sort of way, like we had a brotherhood that transcended the game. He was offered college scholarships for football and basketball. He selected BYU football.
A few weeks into the year he was arrested for selling cocaine on the BYU campus and after serving his sentence in the Utah county jail he came home in disgrace. His father felt some responsibility and explained to me that he was not a Mormon after the manner of the Marriotts , Romneys, or the Huntsmans. He had a 3rd grade education and his income reflected it.
His son claims to have never used cocaine but he sold it at junior and senior high school to make up the difference in his “walking around” money. And the demand for it at BYU was extremely high because it was so difficult to get cocaine there. His son had easy access to it from friends back home and he wanted to be helpful to those who desired to partake of it and he was accustomed to selling in circumstances quite the opposite, where arrests were seldom made for only small “recreational” amounts.
Many respectable older people in his community have used small amounts of cocaine for most of their lives, for up to 60 or 70 years. I don’t think this young man thought it was against the Word of Wisdom to sell cocaine, only to use it. Perhaps only a little worse than selling coffee.
This same young man was also gifted musically and could play piano well, just from practicing at church after meetings and maybe for a few minutes after YM. His family did not own expensive music instruments nor could they afford lessons. His first weekend back home from BYU and jail was testimony meeting and he stood. He stated his father advised him not to do this, but he was going to do it anyway. He had composed a song in his head while passing the time in jail but had never actually played it for real. He wanted to play it for us. He easily leaped over the soft seats on the stand and began to play the piano during his testimony.
The song was about guilt and repentance and regret and redemption. In it he called out to the Lord in the dialect used by his peers at school to forgive him and to save him. The tune was catchy and incredibly good. He was crying and shouting, soft and loud, humble and defiant, at various times. I thought it was an astonishing piece, perhaps even the creation of a new genre of music. I would describe it as Black Mormon redemption music with liberal borrowing from the energetic traditions of his fathers. Others described it as an irreverent obnoxious blotch on the meeting and not conducive to the Spirit.
This young man had some more wanderings in the wilderness to do and he was not with us at church for a few years. He never did go to college. At last report he married and is coming back into activity in the church somewhere else (perhaps in your ward).
*******
I don’t have anything productive to offer that would have helped him at BYU beyond the obvious. I only partially appreciate the depth of the problems he faced and the agony he and his family suffered when he stumbled and fell.
I’ll pitch in with what I know.
If memory serves, I believe Darron said 9% of BYU students are black. He also said that the majority of these black students are on the football and basketball teams and are non-members. Darron himself attended both Ricks College and BYU and he wasn’t an athlete, so obviously not every black student is on the football and basketball teams, but Darron says the majority of blacks at BYU are, and the super-majority of students expelled due to Honor Code issues are black non-LDS players on the football and basketball teams. As such, I think it is a mistake to assume that they understand Utah Mormon culture, and likely don’t appreciate the severity of breaking the Honor Code.
I will also add the Brandon Davies was black and grew up in a biracial family in Provo, so he definitely doesn’t fit the black non-LDS mold at all. Darron says that biracial adoptees (like Brandon who grew up with white parents) don’t have a good understanding of black culture, and can find it difficult to fit in with traditional blacks. He even compared Brandon Davies to Colin Kaepernick.
I can’t speak to the issue of “what kind of LDS?” I don’t know how you would even get data on that. Many people have noticed that Utah Mormons are different than non-Utah Mormons, and many non-Utah Mormons have become disillusioned with Utah Mormon culture. I know Hawkgrrrl grew up in Pennsylvania and noticed a big culture shift when she attended BYU. I think this is rather common among LDS. It is probably an even bigger culture shock for a non-LDS athlete that grew up outside of Utah and doesn’t fully appreciate the Honor Code.
I hope you are able to listen to the podcasts. I try to limit each segment to 10-20 minutes (most are closer to 10) because I know people often don’t have the time to listen to a long interview, but usually one can listen in the car on the way to work, and don’t get bored if I keep it short and sweet! Binge-listening is also cool if you have a longer commute.
As was suggested, this is not an isolated issue with non-LDS students. It must be made very plain. Many member students either are not fully aware/mindful of the honor code or don’t take it seriously. Any of my grandchildren who plan on attending any LDS institution will have had multiple discussions concerning the responsibility the school assumes and the responsibility they are undertaking when contracting that they will abide by the code. They would be taking on a chosen obligation, not an entitlement to tweek the code to fit their cultural sensitivities or personal preferences.