As a political junkie, I was eager to watch the Republicans debates on Thursday to see how things would turn out. With Donald Trump in the mix, it was a mystery about how he would perform, what he might say and how the others would react to him. I was not disappointed.
Let me say at the outset that I am NOT a republican. Contrary to many in the LDS Church, I try to be open minded and look for the best person, yet I have been a registered Democrat all of my life except a brief 4-month period when I registered Republican in order to vote in a primary for a Republican candidate I liked. My first election was 1972, when Richard Nixon ran for President.
Anyway, I tuned into the junior debate very late (the last 30 minutes) because I hadn’t known exactly when it started. When I turned it on, Carly Fiorina was launching one of her Hilary Clinton attacks. Let me say at the outset, that I despise Carly Fiorina. I was working at Hewlett-Packard when she was hired as CEO. Many of us were hoping she would breathe new life into a rather stodgy company because she was so good at public speaking and thus creating the illusion of competence.
Unfortunately, she lacked leadership skills, business acumen and the foresight to understand what made HP the great company it had been for more than 50 years. As result, she ruined one of American’s most innovative companies that was part of Silicon Valley. So, when she was fired, HP was in bad shape and frankly, has never recovered. She talks a good game, which makes her so good as a politician. She never held another hi tech CEO job and had a disastrous US Senate bid in California.
When Rick Perry was speaking, my wife yelled from the other room, “is that George W Bush?” I said I thought the same thing, he sounded exactly like him. Not good.
One of the other observations was that it took 22 minutes into the major league debate for someone to utter “Ronald Reagan.” In the minor league version, I must have heard Ronald Reagan twenty times in the 30 minutes I watched. In fact, I would swear that one of the candidates closing remarks went like this:
“Ronald Reagan. Ronald Reagan, Ronald Reagan, taxes, Ronald Reagan, Obama’s fault, illegal immigration, Ronald Reagan, Ronald Reagan, Isis. Greatest Country on earth, Ronald Reagan, Thank you”
So, how do I rate the 10 candidates:
I made a mental list of them under the categories:
Good Job
Jeb Bush
John Kasich
Marco Rubio
Not Bad
Chris Christy
Rand Paul
Trying a Bit Too Hard
Mike Huckebee
Scott Walker
Lightweight
Ben Carson
Clown
Ted Cruz
Donald Trump
Some of the obvious highlights were:
- Donald Trump not pledging to run as a 3rd Party Candidate.
- Rand Paul going after him at the first chance.
- Trump’s remark about Rosie O’Donnell.
- The great fight between Chris Christie and Rand Paul.
I thought the answers were pretty typical of a Republican-oriented debate fed by Republican-oriented Fox News. You’d think the country was totally in the toilet based on some of the responses. The audience certainly agreed. And while there was some Washington bashing going on, especially from the outsiders, these are politicians (for the most part) we are talking about and they always know what side their bread is buttered on. And in most instances, they failed to answer the questions posed to them, even when asked repeatedly to do so. The most favorite word spoken was “I.”
Trump was his usual self, speaking off the cuff, not really saying anything concrete beyond making American great again. Nothing new there.
BTW, no Mormon candidates this time. Only one ex-Mormon, Marco Rubio, who has claims that his family left the Church after he did research about the Church at age 8. Not likely.
So, I think in the end, Jeb Bush will be the Republican nominee against Hilary Clinton. I also think Clinton will probably win for the following reasons:
- The fierce fight for the Republican nomination will weaken the eventual nominee (Bush) just like in 2008/2012.
- The country is not as conservative as the right wing of the Republican party and even moderate candidates like Bush will have to move right to get the nomination.
- Republicans continue to shoot themselves in the foot regarding women, minorities and social issues.
- It will be history making time to elect a woman. So it will happen.
Did you watch the debate?
If so, what did you think?
Is this too early for this type of engagement?
Any predictions?
Wheat & Tares 
Yea, you sound pretty open minded. NOT! Typical Lib remarks. Nothing new here.
I didn’t watch the JV debate. Here’s my take on the main event.
Trump: He’s got nothing but the act. That can sustain him as long as he is the sole focus of attention, which the press has made him recently. But there are eight more debates, and the act is going to start wearing thin as people are inevitably exposed to more serious people up on the stage. Watch his support gradually erode over the coming months.
Bush and Walker: Their support has held steady during the Trump circus, so they have to win voters from other candidates. Neither did anything to accomplish that last night, although Bush looked a little more presidential than Walker. In fact, Walker’s performance made me wonder how he got as much support as he has.
Cruz, Paul, and Rubio: All three have suffered considerable loss of support to Trump. Cruz and Paul both have niches they can fill and both reminded their erstwhile supporters of what those niches are (neofascist and libertarian respectively, for those who don’t know). They will succeed in reclaiming some of their lost support from Trump. Rubio has no niche and did nothing else to distinguish himself. I see him floundering.
Christie: His support tanked before Trump arrived on the scene, so he is not battling Trump–he is trying to win supporters from the Walker, Bush, and Kasich camps. Alone among the candidates last night, he carved out a unique space for himself that should attract non-Trump voters. If he can keep that up, I see him back in the top tier by the time the actual voting begins.
Kasich: I expected him to ride his post-announcement bump (that got him onto the stage in the first place) and home field advantage to a big night. Instead, he was unfocused and missed his opportunity. I now see him fading as his bump recedes.
Huckabee: As a former runner-up, I have looked at him as the most likely serious challenger to Bush. And like Cruz and Paul, he has a niche he could fill (social conservatives). But he muddied his message with his refusal to consider entitlement reform (which even Obama was willing to discuss at one time). Maybe he sees something I don’t, but I don’t see a constituency for the odd mix of policies has supports.
Carson: As you said, a lightweight. Watch for him to be replaced by Carly Fiorina in a future debate.
Jeff,
Jeb did nothing to distinguish himself up there. Romney looked much better 4 years ago during debates. I do not think that Jeb is close to a favorite at this time.
You call Cruz and Rubio clowns. What were you watching? Rubio’s message was not always the most logical, but he is very smooth and persuasive. I think he will stay in for a long time and probably beat Jeb in Florida if they have a 1 on 1 or small group debate. Cruz was kept off camera for a lot of the time, but seemed articulate and direct during his few responses.
Carson did not have great command of every policy issue, but came across as very sincere and competent in his areas. He has bought himself more time to campaign and refine his message.
“You call Cruz and Rubio clowns. What were you watching? Rubio’s message was not always the most logical, but he is very smooth and persuasive.
Sorry, that was a mistake (I fixed it). I thought Rubio did a good job, other than his two lame jokes. The other clown was Trump.
Hoffbegone,
Thanks for starting it off with a good solid troll comment.
The Others,
Yes, Carson is very sincere and I liked his half a brain joke. But he won’t last.
Cruz is trying so hard to be tough. Most of his Senate colleagues do not like him, even the Republicans. He is most like Trump, but elected. He is trying to grab the Trump supporters after he fails.
Paul was also trying very hard to be a tough guy cause he has gotten very little press lately. I like some of his views on protecting civil liberties, but he is also a bit too out there.
Christie helped himself to get back into it.
While Bush is not a flashy guy, he is sincere and has a good command of the issues as well as being much more pragmatic than dogmatic. He will ultimately be the guy like Romney was.
You put the RINOs at the top of your list and the actual conservative all at the bottom. (With the exception of trump.)
Is this is supposed to be a list of how well the candidates performed, or a list of who you agree with the most as a liberal?
Perhaps you ought to check the definition of troll:
“One who posts a deliberately provocative message to a newsgroup or message board with the intention of causing maximum disruption and argument”
My comment was not provocative, it was my opinion about your piece. My intention was not to cause disruption and I don’t want to argue with the likes of you.
Maybe I am a troll now but your initial stereotypical remark was uncalled for. I may or may not bother reading your next reply buy I have no intention of responding again.
buy s/b but
This again? Depressing.
Hoggbegone,
Given the quality of your first comment, I wasn’t expecting much. So now I don’t have to worry.
“Is this is supposed to be a list of how well the candidates performed, or a list of who you agree with the most as a liberal?”
It is how I thought they performed. And yes, I have little in common with many of them. I did realize that one cannot possibly love America as much as a right wing politician.
Waiting for both Trump and Clinton to be indicted this fall.
It’ll make for a far more interesting contest.
I just wish a Roosevelt would run again.
I think that Cruz was tough before Trump started getting serious about elected politics. I guess you base the Cruz rating on previous experience as well.
What is the take on Christie/Paul? You have them rated equally well, I guess that you consider their most heated discussion a draw or nearly so? Both needed to mix it up and get noticed after slow starts to their campaigns. Maybe they will get some of the Trump voters who switch?
I do not like Obama, but…..why is Cruz not harassed for being born in Canada to a U.S. citizen mother and Cuba citizen father? Obama was given heck for the same situation.
I read similar things about Fiorini.
All the candidates are awful, from both parties, and get worse every election for congress, the Senate and president.
This country is an Oligarchy. We would be better off going back to a Monarchy.
The Trump vote is largely a protest vote against Washington, But he is not electable and his supporters will probably not be part of those who actually do elect a President.
It looks like its a hold your nose and pull the lever election again. I wish it were not like this.
I really like Sanders and I am able to bite my tongue and not comment when family members are around praising the crazy train.
On a related note my 90 yo grandpa said he’s voting female this year bc all men do is make a mess of things. I agree that women should have equal opportunity to make a mess of things.
Bernie Sanders.
Amen.
Nobody has any moral right to vote for other people to be forced to do anything, which is what the entire system is based on.
It is moral to vote for yourself to be ruled over and forced to be a subject of other people but NEVER to vote for that to happen to another person.
Voting is a sin and no Christian should ever engage in it.
I can’t address much, but I wouldn’t call Hillary Clinton a shoe-in. She was on course to be that last time and then some Junior Senator joined the show and look what happened. It’s way too far out to tell anything about anyone or any party.
Jeff,
I’m afraid your right on the outcome. The democrats have done a good job of creating a dependant class with 93,770,000 now not in the labor force with record high unemployment payouts and other aide programs. These people are not going to vote for someone who is going to cut or eliminate those benefits.
The democrats have also done a good job of demonizing those that are opposed to abortion or are in favor of traditional marriage. This prevents a lot of people that could actually do some good from being elected.
Did you watch the debate?
Somewhat. Minnesota, at least where I live, had an electrical storm and we lost the satellite.
If so, what did you think?
I wanted to hear much more from Trump. I want him to be the President and have the other debaters be his staff. I’m sick of politicians. I want a business man to be the President, a successful businessman (or businesswoman). Stop asking him what he’ll do if something happens. He’ll decide that when that business happens.
Is this too early for this type of engagement?
I don’t know.
Any predictions
No. Only hopes. (See – If so, what did you think?) My wife gets upset with me every time I root for Trump.
By the way, Jeff, since you’ve confessed your sins, what did you think of President Obama.
The problem for the candidates is that there were eight different audiences for the debate: the “base,” the money men, the media, Fox News, the independent middle, the back room bosses, the swing states and key demographics. In addition he or she needs to appear to be Presidential and qualified. No one “won” enough of those separate contests to make a difference or shot themselves in the foot bad enough to take them out of the race, yet.
It’s funny. Just 20 years ago the Republican nomination was given to Bob Dole. If the party operated that way today, John Kasich would be given the nomination because he could neat Hilary (Immense popularity in a state that Republicans must win to gain the Presidency.)
In real Presidential politics states like mine, California, and Utah do not matter. California will always vote Democratic for President even if the candidate’s name was Josif Dzhugashvili and Utah will vote Republican even if the candidate was Adolph Shiclgruber . Ohio does matter.
“By the way, Jeff, since you’ve confessed your sins, what did you think of President Obama.”
I was hopeful back in 2008 that things might change with the historic election of a AA President. And I would never have voted for John McCain due to his ultra-hawkish war mongering. And come of his comments on our issues.
However, I have been extremely disappointed in how Washington has gotten more divisive than ever and I think the President has done little to fix it. The Republicans as as much to blame for that as well. But the death grip that special interests have on Washington is the single biggest problem we face since the politicians have no loyalty to the people, just those that bribe them.
Rich,
” I want a business man to be the President, a successful businessman (or businesswoman).”
Washington usually eats up people who come with business skills, because it isn’t really about business, but feeding the beast. Regardless of whether that beast is defense, entitlements or any other program that benefits some outside interest.
Ah, the beginning of the quadrennial POTUS campaign, in it’s “silly season”. Certainly the most entertaining, yet the least informative or meaningful.
The uber-rich, self-made billionaire has been done, both in real life (Remember ‘Ross for Boss’ back in ’92? It was the only non-“DemoPublican” candidacy that had serious traction in recent memory, even I don’t recall much about George Wallace back in ’68). Note: in both cases, you’d wonder if the ‘real’ objective of the ‘spoiler’ is to, in fact, spoil the chances of those that he despises…Perot utterly detested Bush 41 and Wallace would rather have helped Nixon to make it to 1600 Pennsylvania Ave than let any of the ‘liberal’ wing of the Democrat party (yes, folks, there was ONCE such a thing as Conservative Democrats, now they’d be called “Tea Partiers”). Both in effect torpedoed the campaigns of those they should have ostensibly aligned with. Anyway, Trump appears to be much like this character, voiced by the late Charles Napier (link attached for those that didn’t know this versatile man…)
http://en.memory-alpha.wikia.com/wiki/Charles_Napier
Vote for “Duke”! (now named “THE Donald”?)
@Jeff
“BTW, no Mormon candidates this time. Only one ex-Mormon, Marco Rubio, who has claims that his family left the Church after he did research about the Church at age 8. Not likely.”
The Salt Lake Tribune did a story on what Rubio said about leaving the Mormon Church. Not sure what “research” you are referring to. From the Trib article it sounds more like it was probably a better fit for the family– his father never joined the church–smoker, worked or owned a bar etc. –and other relative(s) underscored Rubio’s influence on the family’s decision to stop their participation in the LDS Church.
I was surprised at Jeb Bush’s weak performance in the debates. Left me wondering if he is “rusty” or just another Bush. Rubio and Kasich definitely the strongest. Cruz and Trump are just scarey. Christy and Paul’s
exchange diminished them. Overall, these debates are about how to ignore the question and, instead, how to spout one’s talking points and slogans.
I tend toward the attitude/mindset characterized by, “No one who runs for president is worthy of the office.”
They are all* politicians, scammers, experts at pandering, rhetoric, obfuscation, etc. None of them, if elected will do very much toward what they promised they would do while campaigning. And, saddest of all, we get what we deserve, what we are “worthy” of. The vast majority of citizens only notice the news (of politics or anything else happening) when it is thrust in front of them due to its scandalous or celebrity-related content. Only about 50% ever vote, nightly broadcast news and the primetime segments of the 24 hr cable news attract only 2-3 million viewers, and their average age is something around 60.
Most of the country is relatively vapid and shallow and easily manipulated, especially by politicians pressing their particular hot buttons.
Trump’s current “popularity” is prima facie evidence of my contentions. Worse, his “campaign” will operate to change the nature and course of the overall election “season.” News coverage is terribly skewed by him (and their lust to feed their vapid audience) and the campaigns of most of the other candidates will also be affected–and not in a good way.
But, while I am nearly terminally disenchanted about our government and the political process, it provides some cerebral stimulation.
Addendum…
*Trump is not a politician, he is simply an egotistical, bombastic, buffoonish schemer.
#25 – That DEPENDS on what the business IS, Jeff. So many “private” outfits live and die on fat Gov’t contracts. That’s why I have such an admiration for the “Old Man”, the late ADM Hiram Rickover, particularly for the way he stood up to both the Navy bureaucracy AND the “Beltway Bandits”, but especially Electric Boat, aka “The Greedy Goons from Groton (CT)”. As much as I tout the role of FREE Enterprise in shaping the freedoms and prosperity of the U-S-of-A, there is a role for dedicated military and civil servants that take the notion of public trust seriously.
Else who do you think pays those veritable armies of lobbyists that descend upon DC? Hint: It ain’t those lined up at the “Human Development” office, though the association of Social Workers w/o doubt has someone inside the Beltway!