For the last twenty-thirty or so years the Church has explored alternatives to scouting. One of the problems is that those who have been tasked with approaching the concept end up just creating boy scout clones, with the bottom line that they give up and suggest just sticking with the boy scouts. They have a problem in that they visualize everything in terms of the Boy Scouts rather than in terms of what modern needs are.
![posters-scouts-m[1]](http://www.wheatandtares.org/wp-content/uploads/2015/08/posters-scouts-m1.jpg)
Yes, I believe that they are working with too narrow of a frame and can not escape it. I think that what they need to think of a program for both the boys and the girls and provides a modern replacement for the theme park that paramilitary training program that was the original Boy Scouts has now evolved into. [footnote 1]
![ger-scouts-line[1]](http://www.wheatandtares.org/wp-content/uploads/2015/08/ger-scouts-line1.jpg)
I’d suggest the following:
First, that it be a program for both the boys and the girls, with the same curriculum and the same funding for both groups. Anyone who wants to start designing a program should probably be forced to watch Suffragette first. And read some of what Brigham Young and others said about the essential need to train young women and to create and nurture equality.
Second, that it include a standard curriculum with parts that fit a broad variety of life needs and skills.
- Practical Skills
- The Gentle Art of Verbal Self Defense. Suzette Haden Elgin died this February after a long illness, but the information she taught is important.
- How to use basic tools. The basic tool kit from Ikea and how to use it.
- How to correct others who are wrong.
- Employment Skills
- Emphasize that more than 80% of the young women who marry will find themselves needing to be the sole support of themselves and/or their families. If they are trained and skilled, they will need to work many fewer hours. Compare someone with an M.D. who can with three 12 hour shifts as a hospitalist earn more than five people with a GED who are working 60 hours a week.
- Understanding college tracks, professions and employment trees. Real knowledge such as the fact that only 20 philosophy PhD programs place their graduates in universities teaching philosophy. All the other programs are 100% dead ends designed purely to extract cheap labor from adjuncts. Kids should know things like this before college rather than at the end of seven years of graduate school.
- Resumes, job interviews, presentation.
- Life Skills
- Cooking, recipe planning, group dinners and how to plan so that the left overs from one meal flow over into the next.
- Basic housekeeping skills. Think how many boys go on missions not knowing how to wash clothes or iron shirts — a mission is not the time to learn these things.
- How to set boundaries. This is important and many of our kids don’t have the skills. There are many, many good books and spending one set of lessons on one, and one set on another would be very good. Those who need the information are likely to be willing to do additional reading on their own time.
- How to recognize, flee and report abuse.
- How to deal with and survive trauma.
- Spiritual Skills
- The value of individual personal prayer, study and a connection to Christ. Some things are much more effective if we do them ourselves on a regular schedule [see below] rather than only as a group.
- How the gospel exists to support us and to bring us to Christ. Just like the sabbath was made for man, not man for the sabbath, the same is true of the Church. We need to be focused on Christ.
- Learn how anger is used to manipulate people and to be aware of that.
- That spiritual strength, like physical strength, is built up over time by consistent practice and repetition.
- Recognizing the elements of a conflict between faith and intellect.
- Social/Societal Skills
- What a group is and how you are initiated into a group. Whether it is finding people to sit with at lunch or joining a club, there is a process.
- Proper social mores and approaches. For example, how to turn down coffee without insulting someone.
- The ways people dress in different countries and different social strata. Or how there can be a modest bikini in Brazil and an immodest one-piece in Saudi Arabia. In one era an exposed ankle or an exposed face is a scandal, in another exposed knees are not noteworthy.
- The roles various cultures give people.
- Integrity and what it really means.
- Social outings and relevant skills.
- Physical Skills
- Finding a fitness program that will last you (fitness for life).
- Appropriate physical skills and training guidelines.
- Dance and similar activities.
- Adventure
- A one or two week adventure project every year for both groups. It needs to take them out of the mundane (at least 100 miles from home). Equally funded. Not Sunday School in a tent.
- One two week or two one week adventures a year, where possible (though starting with one, one week adventure — and make it a full week).
Christliche Pfadfinder by Noebse - Service
- How to plan and execute a service project.
- Group service and the difference between projects and causes (the one has a definite start and stop, the other enlists you in providing labor forever).
- A capstone service project.
- Localized Lessons
- Four a year (with proposed regional lessons).
- Things such as how to recognize and deal with a minefield (if you are in an area where there are minefields).
- Protecting yourself from human trafficking.
- Dealing with floods.
- Various localized matters.
- How to volunteer and be involved in charities and charitable works.
This is enough material, with some reprising (e.g. the gentle art material could be presented once from How to Disagree without Being Disagreeable and once from How to Turn the Other Cheek and Still Survive in Today’s World) for the same material to be only covered twice over the time from turning 12 to turning 18. Everyone needs some repetition and the same lesson at 12 and at 15 is an entirely different lesson.
Why? This is a program that would
- Provide useful life training that is not redundant with Sunday School or other church programs.
- Help integrate children into becoming adults.
- Create core knowledge that youth in the church need.
- Replace a program aimed at a world of over a hundred years ago with one that fits the world we live in.
- Provide structure. Rather than a boy scout clone with less structure and fewer resources, this is a structured program that draws on a vast body of knowledge.
Footnote 1. I started scouting in Alaska. We went out into the raw wild (which could easily be someone in the suburbs back yard), scavenged our own wood, built fires into raw environments and cleaned up after ourselves in sometimes harsh conditions (I camped out in 20 degrees below zero weather before down sleeping bags and double walled tents). Years later I was asked to help with a scout troop and discovered that they couldn’t pitch a tent right or start a fire without an accelerant or keep warm when it was 40 degrees outside. The local scout camp had permanently pitched tents on permanently placed raised platforms, the kids ate from cook trailers that were mobile thousand dollar+ kitchens and the fires were from aged pre-cut wood, brought in from outside. Theme park camping is probably the most accurate description.
![MU00049-2[1]](http://www.wheatandtares.org/wp-content/uploads/2015/08/MU00049-21.jpg)
Not that I’m critical of the Boy Scouts for being a paramilitary program teaching kids how to prepare to become Airborne Rangers and Navy Seals, but it has migrated somewhat due to the increased pressures of population, numbers and civilization. When I was a kid people often invited scouts to camp on land to remove all the pine trees. That obviously has limited use in places without population density.
[Footnote 2] Everyone forgets that early on, the LDS Church fought scouting. However, there was nothing else in the way of social groups and it overwhelmed local resistance. More recently, ennui and a lack of relevance has overwhelmed the interest many have for scouting — or why many Church scouting groups are lackluster at best.
Wheat & Tares 
Stephen you would be a great start to a committee to redesign these programs. I really like the adventure idea. I would also love to see the addition of multi-week projects chosen and driven by the youth that teach them how to plan, build support, fundraise, build things etc. It can be tricky to find something that motivates a broad swath of youth. I am sure it will expose the underlying inequality in resources in wards across the church as well, but the skills are more important (as is that conversation).
I guess you really need to step back and ask yourself the whole purpose of the MIA program? As it is associated with a Church, the building of the spiritual side would seem to be the main objective. And to teach the living lessons of the Gospel of service, love and charity.
Now, I also understand the need to keep our YM and YW interested by providing fun and challenging activities.
But, seriously, does Church need to provide a place to learn to start a fire? put up a tent?
Why not program a computer, play a musical instrument, tune up a car, write a poem? Where does it stop?
When did the home stop being the place for kids to learn things about the outdoors?
Oh, yeah, some parents can’t be bothered or aren’t interested. Just like some of the kids.
#2 – you provided your own answer at the last.
Particularly for boys, but it’s not really different for girls, at times a parental role model comes into play for a ‘yute’ that doesn’t have the privilege of an intact, happy, Gospel-centered family. Any decent bishop will reach out to ‘at-risk’ young persons but of course he can be stretched only so far.
It would be tough to substitute something for YM that Scouting does now, BUT, the way things are going, ‘Scouting’ will soon no longer be what it once was, once the infection is thorough and the ‘condition’ of the ‘patient’ is irrevocably terminal. Then it will be a matter of necessity for the Church to fend for itself insofar as a Scouting substitute is concerned.
And I do hope, not IF but WHEN the Church strikes out on its own, that the YW ought to learn more than making doilies. I have always been glad to help repair and/or upgrade the girls camp and will do so longer after my youngest is grown and gone.
I really think that a religious community has a place and a set of core knowledge skills it needs to convey.
And I think that capstone service projects for every child are an important part of that.
Though we also need room for socializing and social skills, I don’t want something that is only for adults or drains the fun out of life.
After spending over two 2 hours yesterday explaining the stratification of how used cars are sold to a newly married couple and why paying $1,400 for a used car with nearly 200,000 miles may not be the best decision I would add a set of lessons on finance. Not that all individuals who attend MIA will buy a car or other forms of transportation but teaching what comes after tithes and offerings would be an important lesson. (Before anyone thinks these are two hayseeds they both recently graduated from college and have GRE scores greater than mine.)
I think religious teachings are able to take root when the youth are engaged in good activities and it doesn’t matter what that is as long as there is planning, enough enthusiasm to attract enough tobattend, and leaders are organized.
My guess is that scouting was just something set up to support certain activities that were sustainable and not reinventing the wheel.
Many many many other church youth groups outside mormonism attract youth without scouts.
Mormonism seems to like “programs” that are supported from HQ. But I’ve always wondered why it didn’t separate from scouts decades ago. Every time it was raised as something “in the works”…everyone I talked to looked forward to that day.
One thing that has come up in many discussions online is that the church has “Duty to God” in many areas that is supposed to be a comprehensive program in areas without scouting (and of course, it is also available even in the US, even if it may or may not be emphasized as much.)
But even though it claims to be comprehensive, it’s just not as good, the comments seem to agree.
The church won’t leave the Boy Scouts.
If they can call their own leaders and run it the way they want anyway, it doesn’t matter what the national organization does.
Besides, it will take a lot of work to build a parallel organization, and I don’t think the church wants to do that.
Time to drag out and dust off the road show and dance festival programs?
In a discussion yesterday, we were trying to figure out why the Church decided this was the hill they wanted to die on. They have pretty much gone along with all the other stuff thus far, but why the talk about leaving now?
We’ve always been able to call our own leaders and have a standard for them already in place.
Perhaps, the current Church Leaders sitting on the executive board do not like or agree with the direction that Bob Gates seems to be going. There may be more to this than just the “gay thing…”
Mark A Marsh — you are absolutely right.
And to everyone, I don’t have the slightest idea why they suddenly started to part ways on this, especially as this looked like the direction they were going.
Though the Church originally opposed kids joining scouts and then gave in and was assimilated when they couldn’t stop it. But now, scouting is generally so lack luster in Church organizations.
The problem they’ve had is envisioning something that will replace it that is not a pale clone. “ven though it claims to be comprehensive, it’s just not as good, the comments seem to agree” — they really need a completely new conceptual framework than a pale clone of the BSA.
#6 – Wonder if these recent graduates understand the “rule of 72”. It doesn’t take a Harvard MBA to understand personal finance, which is sorely lacking in American education.
‘Stratification’ with respect to the purchase of an old ‘beater’? Might be overthinking the problem. As for whether said ‘beater’ is a good purchase, it would depend on the vehicle’s current condition, what it’s needed for, the ability of the couple to secure financing for a newer, presumably more reliable ride (I would assume a $1400 purchase is ‘cash on the barrelhead’), and in light of other financial needs.
What Mormon Heretic said is spot on.
Church leadership is using every opportunity to rebuke homosexuality. The recent public affairs statement is one example.
On the other hand, I like most of the ideas in the OP.
Douglas – the car needs to be driven 20,000 miles in 9 months before driven cross country to graduate school. But before we argue over if a beater could do it I think you made my point “personal finance is sorely lacking”.
Jeff, I think you’re off track in saying that the church shouldn’t do these things. We teach provident living. We have ward employment specialists. The horse is out of the barn, my friend. We are in the life skills business already. Deeply in it.
Great ideas Stephen.
Jeff, I’m with hawkgrrrl on this. Isn’t the life skills thing all part of teaching members to be self reliant.
Exactly.
Stephen Marsh, you state a couple times that the LDS church was at first opposed to scouting for boys. I’m not sure what you are referring to. The first scouts troops in the U.S. started appearing independently in 1909. The BSA came about in 1910, but that wasn’t the end of other scouting organizations within the United States. In November 1911, the LDS general YMMIA organized the MIA scouts, and in May 1913, the MIA scouts accepted the invitation by BSA to merge into that organization. I suppose there was plenty of thinking back and forth, “should we do this, should we do that,” in that span from 1910 to 1913, but it didn’t take long for the church to adopt scouting for boys, and then to join up with the BSA.
I just want to comment with regard to the MD “statistic.”
I think that in our church (and in society in general) the whole “doctor/lawyer-is-the-best-job” rhetoric is so harmful. You might also mention that there are more medical students than there are available residencies (and without a residency, a medical student cannot become a fully licensed physician and is therefore stuck with half a million dollars in student loans and no job). Those lucky enough to secure residencies essentially work for minimum wage. Student loans no longer allow deferments during this time, so residents are expected to pay a couple of grand on their loans every month while they cannot even feed themselves.
I just wanted to make this comment. Don’t even get me started on how there are more law students than legal positions and how many these days graduate jobless (they cannot even secure paralegal positions) and so deeply in debt that some states won’t even allow them to take the bar exam due to their financial issues.
My husband and I both have Ph.D.s. Honestly, sometimes I think it would have been better if we would have stopped after high school and taken out business loans instead. That way, if our business(es) would have flopped, at least our loans would have consumer protections and we’d have options with regard to rebuilding our lives.
Just a thought! Sorry to get off topic!
Christine, I mention that by example with Philosophy PhDs.
I’m not aware of an MD program that can’t place all of its graduates in residencies.
Law Schools on the other hand…
You are right about unqualified people who pick a major — 90% of pre med students.
That should be an important part of teaching kids.
But I knew a parent who tried to talk their daughter out of going to med school and who rethought it when they looked at real numbers.
http://thirdtierreality.blogspot.com/?m=1
A good example of law school problems.
Hawk and Hedge,
“The horse is out of the barn, my friend. ‘
Still not sure. Horses die and barns burn down. We used to have speech contests and Roadshows and all sorts of things.
The life skills I can see, the outdoor ones, not so much. Though I certainly use the one I learned in Socuts, way back when….
There are definitely med schools that can’t place students into residency programs. If you have money funding you, then med school is a great option. Otherwise, plan on being about $270k in debt upon leaving med school (current average). If you’re in ortho or anesthesia, you won’t have a problem paying it off. Other specialties – plan on 15-30 years (the “mortgage” on their brain). Typically docs will recommend people who want to practice medicine to go to PA school or become a nurse practitioner – less debt and you get to start practicing sooner. It’s basically the technical school vs. college debate.
Teaching life skills (especially the finance thing) would be awesome. I’m not sure how many of our youth leaders are qualified to do that, though….
Nursing schools aren’t allowed to take students without residencies for them.
The same with CRNA programs.
http://www.usnews.com/education/best-graduate-schools/top-medical-schools/articles/2013/03/29/options-exist-for-med-students-without-residency-matches
I’ll be. Of 40,000, 963 did not get matches. That is 2%, which is not insignificant.
Learned something new.
Also http://www.medscape.com/viewarticle/727793
From a source I talked to whose family members in SLC CoB…. The decision had already been made to axe BSA and they were waiting for Monson to pass. For years, esp w new leadership, the church has felt increasingly disrespected by BSA. Apparently last month was the straw that broke the camel’s back – when they requested to reschedule their vote and their request wasn’t even acknowledged, not even to say no. Strategically pulling the lever now due to LGBT issues gets the BSA lifers on board with the switch w LGBT being collateral damage. I was told this has nothing to do w LGBT – everything to do w being disrespected (read catered to) and timing. Ymmv.
PS I like this post, Stephen
And who is going to teach these skills and where will the administration come from? Is this all going to be local (ward / stake) level or will the standards be administered from Salt Lake?