Dear Howard, you seem to have quite a back story, could you tell us what you were doing before you had the change of perspective that drives you now?
I’m a 6th generation Mormon with ancestors who were part of the Willie Handcart Co. I grew up in southern California in the church without giving much deep thought to it, just an average member but I could see that socially and culturally it added a richness and a foundational meaning to life that I liked and my non-member friends lacked. However one thing that continued to plague me was my curiosity and my inability to thrive in an environment that discouraged probing questions. I went on a 2 week mini mission in Phoenix and witnessed a couple of hard realities that helped me realize I really didn’t want to serve on a regular proselytizing mission, but a service mission would have been of interest to me had it been available then. I married in the Mesa Temple and we had a son but the marriage was struggling mostly due to our psychological naivete. I left the marriage believing I had done all the church claimed was necessary for happiness somewhat disillusioned and ended up leaving the church as well. This began a time of great personal growth as I was ostracized by almost everyone I grew up with including my family and I had to learn how to stand on my own. Eventually I was excommunicated and I went on to live a very happy worldly life, to this day never regretting a moment of it.
What changed your perspective?
In the mid 1980s I began to have a personal interest in health and wellness which was largely about diet, exercise and stress reduction and I began living a very healthy lifestyle. Stress reduction eventually lead to meditation and after many years as I got better at meditation it lead me to the Spirit! In late 2003 I found myself having the quaking experience that you can read about in D&C 85:6 “Yea, thus saith the still small voice, which whispereth through and pierceth all things, and often times it maketh my bones to quake while it maketh manifest, saying:” Another reference to this can be found in 3 Nephi 11:3. The experience described in these scriptures is the beginning of a kundalini (spiritual) awakening. Kundalini is an ancient experience, the name kundalini is derived from a Sanskrit word and the experience is metaphorically described in ancient texts. For the next 7 years I was tutored 24/7 by the Spirit, I became a sell what you have and follow Him disciple.
What would a current week for you now look like?
My weekends are often filled with charity social events or socializing with charity related friends. My week days are mostly focused on Life Coaching others which I consider a ministry helping many who cannot otherwise afford help.
You are a steady commenter on Wheat and Tares. How did you find the blog and what keeps you there?
Well I found Wheat & Tares on the Mormon Archipelago aggregator. I’m here largely because of the inclusive attitude and tolerant moderation policy that facilitates a lot of creative space for discussion outside the correlated box. Sometimes I think of it as my ward.
Going forward, what projects do you see in your future?
I’ll be spending 6 weeks in Africa beginning in September, for two weeks I will be typical tourist and then I will be volunteering for a month at one of my favorite charities a South African AIDS orphanage called Lily of the Valley Endeavor (LOVE) that I have been helping support for the last four years.
I would like to see the church leave some of it’s Pharisaical and Mosaic ways behind in favor of a more spiritual focus and direction and I would like to see the Corporate Church distance itself further from Mammon and it’s material focus in favor of third world saving lives. I plan to continuing blogging on these themes and others as time allows.
If you were asked to sum up your beliefs in four or five sentences, what would you say is the core of what you believe?
I have a very strong personal testimony of Joseph and the restoration, in spite of my progressive attitudes regarding inclusiveness you might consider me somewhat of a fundamentalist (though not at all a literalist) regarding the restoration and the institutionalized regression that has taken place since Joseph.
If you were to give two pieces of unsolicited advice to anyone reading this interview, what would they be?
1) All that isn’t love is fear.
2) Non physical suffering is optional. It’s caused by clinging to the way you want things to be instead of accepting them as they are. As soon as you accept them the suffering ends!
3) Black and white thinking short changes you and those you attempt to communicate with.
What question do you wish someone would ask you, and what is the answer you would give.
I’m not sure how to phrase the question but here is the answer, it’s a warning. As citizens of the US and of the world we are currently engaged in spiritual warfare against a hidden enemy of fear mongers who drum up business for the war machine and place the profits of giant corporations ahead of our health and our family’s health. You may not be aware of the propaganda because you are totally immersed in it.
Please see:
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German Journalist exposes mainstream media bribing by the CIA https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4Bf5G-zLrh0
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Naomi Wolf Exposes US Domestic Propaganda – Fake News and False Flags https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=K7LmxyZXMw0
Thank you Howard
Wheat & Tares 
I liked this backstory interview with one of our “ward members.” Howard, is it too personal to ask about your activity status – you don’t have to answer but am interested how your testimony of the restoration fits in with the church you see as fallen away. This is kind of a waterman approach, right?
Howard, I frequently agree with you, and I have a good deal of respect for you, but the comment that all “non physical suffering is optional” is as indefensible a statement as I’ve ever read here.
Thanks for the interview. Howard always has interesting things to say, and I love that he doesn’t mince words.
Kristine A,
I’ve followed the Spirit since 2003, this resulted in my being baptized a Christian first and then at the Spirit’s direction I returned to the LDS church, after a couple of years my disciplinary counsel was reconvened and I was re-baptized in 2006 and was a faithful active member for several more years but I was ignored, delayed and sidestepped when ever I inquired about restoration of blessings two Bishops and three Stake Presidents in two different Stakes (I moved) used very similar passive aggressive methods to ignore, impede or give me the “run around” so I was directed by the Spirit to stop attending and work to help change the church from the outside. It might be hard to believe or seem condescending to say but having a conversational relationship with the Spirit made attending difficult from many perspectives and attending was often a spiritual come down. The mortal LDS church is a temporary experience for everyone even if they are active for their entire lives because the Mosaic Pharisaical temporal church doesn’t continue on the other side of this life and I think this makes more sense of the 2/3 of the membership that isn’t active, get your saving ordinances and go, what’s the point of staying if it’s painful to do so?
brjones,
Thank you for your comment. Perhaps you’re not aware of Buddha’s inquiry into suffering?
I enjoy Howard’s comments, and differing perspectives. There have been a few times when discussions with you have helped me to see things differently in a positive way, or to clarify my thoughts on things Howard, thank you. Lovely to read the interview.
Kristine A wrote: am interested how your testimony of the restoration fits in with the church you see as fallen away. This is kind of a waterman approach, right?
I don’t follow Rock (or Denver) very closely so I could be wrong but I think there are some similarities. My kundalini awakening continued into what many call a shamanic awakening and this experience convinced me that Joseph was a shaman and that his experience was of God. Most shaman are involved in a deal with the dark side, they are not approached directly by the light because God respects agency but Joseph choose the light in the grove and became a shaman (Prophet) of the light (God). I followed a similar path and also switched to the light (without meeting God or Jesus). I’m not trying to say I’m a Joseph or a great Prophet rather I’m saying my experience lends a lot creditability from my view to Joseph’s experience and in the process I received many revelations. One of those revelations was that the further the church got from Joseph’s death the more diluted God’s power became and the more diluted revelation became and I think this can be readily seen when we look back at the restoration. Many TBMs offer apologetics for this but can it be true that younger missionaries are that only think of importance God has to share with the world today? The problem is authority isn’t power, a Prophet isn’t made by simply ordaining and sustaining.
Great to get some background. I would love to see this same kind of thing done for all the permas here. I’ve been reading here for years and never seen it done so there must be some reason it hasn’t been done but it would be nice.
“Non physical suffering is optional. It’s caused by clinging to the way you want things to be instead of accepting them as they are. As soon as you accept them the suffering ends!”
As well-meaning as that statement seems, it feels arrogant and unloving. I’ve tried to accept that the death of a child is ‘God’s Will’, is ‘part of the plan’, is ‘the end of his mission on earth’, is a manifestation that ‘his soul was too pure for this earth’. Though these things are hard to accept, I can better grasp that the death of a child is integral in opposition to the joy of having children for the plan of happiness (and misery) that comes with mortality. I can accept that there are things that I could have done differently that would have prevented the death of a child, but that I am an imperfect human and fare the lot of all imperfect humans.
But when I go to church and sit in the chapel and have my day ruined by a flashback of seeing a small coffin there, or walk down the hall between the RS room and the chapel and remember the long walk with the family behind the coffin into the funeral service, or when we sing “Each Life that Touches Ours For Good’, then that acceptance falls apart and torment and despair strike again.
So while it would be nice not to cling to the way I want things to be and though I do my best to accept things as they are, the suffering has not ended. I know the common response would be ‘well you really haven’t accepted them then’. Just like ‘you haven’t been praying hard enough’, or you are not doing any other number of steps sufficiently. I can just say that I don’t think I will ever have freedom from those episodes of torment and despair regardless of whatever theology or philosophy or counseling technique is embraced–for I am not without efforts in seeking solace from all of those.
I was reading about Elder L. Tom Perry’s words recently reflecting on how he dealt with the grief of losing his spouse and his advice was something to the effect that you have to ‘get over it.’ That’s kind of what you are saying to do in your comment above. While I appreciate that authoritative witness to the benefit of doing that, it may be one of those statements that is ‘true but not useful’ at a certain point in one’s grieving process.
I’m very sorry for you loss Rigel.
But that doesn’t make it wrong or socially unacceptable to disclose the antidote to suffering just because it’s difficult to understand or difficult overcome in extreme cases.
Many people push back on this, they don’t want to hear that there is an antidote often because it shifts the responsibility to them instead of fate or whatever.
Rigel I feel for you as well.
I believe that non-physical suffering is not optional. That it can be overcome and healed in time I believe is true, but just as much as being stabbed in the arm brings inevitable pain and suffering for a time, I believe it is just as true and inevitable about psychological pain and suffering in cases like the death of a loved one (it seems especially in the case of a child), a spouse that cheats and/or leaves when the other spouse thought the marriage was in a good state, or even something like rape. I believe grief and suffering is a necessary and unavoidable step that can eventually lead to healing.
This was a great idea. It’s good to hear more about Howard’s admirable life and work. I think we will probably judge commentators more generously once we know a little more about them. Howard brings a perspective which is always spiritually rich but unorthodox. We get plenty of unorthodox, but its great to have more spiritual perspectives along with that.
Howard,
I’m interesting the somewhat implicit relationship that you seem to have with Hindu philosophy and religion? Often times it seems like you are perceiving the church and its teachings through Eastern lenses and I’m wondering how think those lenses might be?
This is the part of buddhist thinking that I find inhuman, although perhaps necessary in an environment where suffering is intense and universal. The only option then becomes technique for separating oneself from intense emotional pain. I think the danger then becomes the possibility of not having that pain available leading to an inability to feel compassion-harshness with the self can become harshness with others. I’d be interested to hear how this feels to Howard as a longer term practitioner, but it certainly feels this way as a family member of those who espouse this practice.
Jeff G,
My relationship to Hindu philosophy and Buddhist philosophy and philosophy in general were taught to me one-on-one by the Spirit.
I was having an ancient spiritual experience that was embraced by Eastern thought and largely ignored or unknown to most Western thought. It took me several months to understand that it is the dark side one encounters first, once I understood that I declared Jesus Christ as my Savior and the entire experience changed into Christian based lessons and epiphanies and I was encouraged by the Spirit to keep that is good from what I was taught (not that Eastern philosophy is dark). An example of this is the antidote to non-physical suffering is acceptance, it’s a Buddhist concept but why reinvent the wheel given the problem has already been solved?
I guess my question is, then, what literature and/or teachers taught you how to meditate and how to interpret it (that it was an ancient experience, for example)? Or did you just sort of go it yourself and interpret such things as seemed right to you? I’m guessing it was not the spirit that taught you the word “Kundalini”.
I’m not in any way poo-pooing your experiences. It’s just that the way you talk about them and your approach to mystical experiences in general seems to presuppose much more than what I personally find in the scriptures. Of course, the fact that you didn’t mention the scriptures as an inspiration in the process as suggest to me that there was something else.
Would you mind sharing a bit more about the thoughts and people that influenced you between during that 20 year period leading up to 2003 in which you were practicing meditation prior to finding the spirit?
Howard, an indefensible, and frankly, patently false statement isn’t any less so just because it was made by Buddha, or joseph smith or anyone else. That statement is, in my opinion, like virtually all statements or positions that make broad generalizations, not just misguided, but empirically false. And that statement doesn’t just make a broad generalization, it literally makes a universal one. That’s the first clue that it should be disregarded.
“Non physical suffering is optional. It’s caused by clinging to the way you want things to be instead of accepting them as they are. As soon as you accept them the suffering ends!”
Without non-physical suffering the bloggernacle would be devoid of comment fodder, shrivel and die. Can you imagine the furor and disdain this quote would have generated in LDS blogs if it had been said by a stake president/mission president/Seventy? There would be accusations of old white men living in a bubble and condemnations of unfeeling church bureaucrats out of touch with reality. Geoff-Aus would yet again wade in with pleas for apostolic retirement, claims of church pollution by American conservative politics, and hopes of an Uchtdorf presidency. FMH would get itself in a lather over it as an example of the poisonous effect of patriarchy. But since it was made by a wavy gravy shaman/life coach it’s supposed to be deep and insightful?
Steve wrote: I think the danger then becomes the possibility of not having that pain available leading to an inability to feel compassion-harshness with the self can become harshness with others…it certainly feels this way…
I agree it can feel that way and I suspect regular commenters here would level that criticism on me as well. Knowing that (at lease non-physical) suffering is optional changes your perspective and it also changes your perspective of those who are suffering. This does not make one unempathetic rather it shifts the realization of the cause of suffering to it’s actual source. At this point it becomes clear that it is very easy to enable the continuation of the suffering and that this is typically already occurring via many around the suffer who feed into the suffering in a well intended way that our society calls normal. Mourning is a good example, it has components that are related to the rupture that are directly related to the relationship, it also has components that are related to the mourner’s sorrow unrelated to the death and the mourner’s unresolved childhood issues, it also has components of the role of victim-hood which some mourner’s embrace and revere more than others. This is a missed growth opportunity in our society. Woman, why weepest thou?
brjones,
Can you demonstrate that it is empirically false? In my experience it is empirically true and your saying it’s false doesn’t make it false.
KLC,
Lol! Loved your #18.
Jeff G,I began practicing meditation as a form of relaxation until I learned to stay in a trance for maybe 10 minutes or so at a time at about this time the Spirit reentered my life and began to guide me, then a guy I knew fairly well in business showed up and to my surprise began talking about meditation in a lot of depth, it was a life long study for him, he had studied it via many different paths and cultures and he proceeded to explain what was common to all on the paths which was actually pretty simple and my meditation improved quickly. Soon I was meditating on the Spirit’s signal extending the time I was able to maintain connection with him, this lead to to the D&C 85:6 experience. I had no idea what it was at the time so I began an internet search to find out what had happened when I read about a kundalini awakening it matched my experience very closely and it was then confirmed by the Spirit, more importantly it was confirmed that (at least my) kundalini awakening was manifestation of the Spirit and if you care to Google it you will find many others who believe this as well.
Yes many of the lessons taught to me by the Spirit are extra-doctrinal, what would the point of being personally tutored by the spirit be it it weren’t extra-doctrinal? I’m not requiring anyone to accept them as doctrinal for themselves, rather I offer them up for discussion. It’s also important to point out when we become legalistic about what IS doctrinal we loose the spirit of the revelation which is far more important and closer to what God wants us to understand about his message than legalistic parsing. Revelation is largely metaphor or allegory owing to two major reasons: 1) God’s ways are not our ways and his messages to us must be dumbed down to an approximation in order to be metabolized by us 2) The actual content of His message goes through the prophet’s personal filter picking up considerable contamination on it’s way.
I was introduced to many, many scriptures by the Spirit during this time, including much of the Bible, all of the D&C and more than half of the BoM, I was also encouraged to do a lot of genealogy and was at times micro guided in that pursuit. My lessons were quite varied and included for example studying color in depth, harmonics, music, light etc, etc.
I don’t think I have anything of significance to share in this discussion regarding the thoughts or people who influenced in the period between leaving the church and reuniting with the Spirit in 2003 but I will add that I was guilty of what the church would consider many serious sins even as I encountered the Spirit but it had no discernible effect on his acceptance of me or our communication.
Thanks for the response, Howard. While we obviously don’t see eye to eye on absolutely everything, I sympathize with a lot of what you’ve shared.
Howard, then you should confine your comment to what your experience has been, and not tell everyone what their experience should be. It is the height of arrogance to say that “if every human being would do x, their experience would be y.” In my experience, such claims are not even worth examining, because they fail to take into account the infinite differences in personality, capacity, circumstance, aggravating and mitigating factors, etc. For your statement to be true, it would mean that no person, ever, in the history of mankind, who was able to accept things as they are, thereafter experienced any non-physical suffering. I don’t care where such an assertion originates, it’s hogwash. Any absolute, universally applicable statement like that has no credible from the jump. And frankly, for someone as critical as the current “pharisaical” mormon church, you sound an awful lot like them when your only possible response to someone who says they do accept things as they are, yet still experience non-physical suffering, is “well, that’s your fault; it just means you’re not doing it right.”
brjones,
Your comment seems over-the-top absolute, literal and legalistic to me, why don’t you give Buddha’s advice a sincere effort and report back with your findings?
I’m not really taking issue with Buddha’s advice. I accept that it has worked for you and might work for me. But I felt like your original statement was the absolute. “All non-physical suffering is optional.” That statement says something about people who are suffering that, in my opinion, is not defensible on a universal scale.
I don’t know KLC. Howard seems to be getting a fair amount of push-back for that.
LDS Mormons revere even worship suffering, to them suffering is a major path to growth, waring hairshirt garments while gardening in the heat of summer simply shows your love for God and your level of obedience. Suffering is good: Mourn with those who mourn vs Woman why weepiest thou? But if suffering is truly good for you, what’s up with Utah’s high rate of antidepressants and pain meds? Modern LDS Mormonism inverts the gospel via it’s strong over focus on behavior and under focus on spiritual growth. Polygamy and The Law of Concencration both having the potential to refine out jealousy and possessiveness have been replaced with the flavor of a (selfish and self congratulating) prosperity gospel complete with a $Billion mall, tithing directly and indirectly funds a huge construction company in an “inspired” mix of God and Mammon in spite of express scripture to the contrary. Indeed LDS Mormons love their Golden Calves and they’re not giving them up even IF suffering turned out to be optional. Suffer but enable and medicate, don’t meditate.
Sorry, but if someone can truly avoid non-physical pain, well, I would presume they also have the power to avoid all physical pain. Why stop at non-physical pain if one is THAT CAPABLE?!?!?!?!?
In other words, I think minimizing non-physical pain is a worthy aspiration, but I don’t think it’s possible. But I would appreciate learning more about meditation in an effort to be able to reduce my amounts of emotional suffering.
Dexter,
Well it’s actually suffering that can be avoided, pain and suffering aren’t synonymous, you’ll feel some pain but if you accept the situation it doesn’t have to turn into suffering. We amplify the pain when we resist it and when we allow it to become conflated with unrelated past injuries of future fears and when we choose to wallow in our “well deserved” victim hood. Pain and suffering can be minimized by becoming present in the present which is a precursor to meditation that displaces regrets of the past and fears of the future.
I’m all for it. I’m good at suffering. I wish I weren’t.
bjones: “non physical suffering is optional”. Non physical, to me, is spiritual. If that is not true, then, tell me what else it its. To me, non physical suffering comes from disobedience to God. You will suffer non physically whether you like it or not. I think this is why you dont’ go along with this and I don’t know why he does.
Howard: “The problem is authority isn’t power, a Prophet isn’t made by simply ordaining and sustaining.” (#6)
But how can a prophet be a leader of the Lords church without the ordaining and the sustaining by the rest of the prophets who are also prophets and apostles?
This is why The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints is the Lord’s church and it always will be. It will always have the authority of God and no one else will ever have it.
If you are not in it, then do everything you can to get in it.
12. Nate. “It’s good to hear more about Howard’s admirable life and work.” That’s all fine and good, but he needs to get back in the Church. By that, I mean The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints.
Rich:
By the way, everybody, on May 13th, I fell off the steps of the front door of my house and broke my right shoulder and hit the right side of my head on the sidewalk. I spent seven days in the hospital which I remember very little of, and about two and a half weeks in therapy, which is a different kind of life then I have ever experienced.
It’s getting back to normal and I don’t mean to change to the subject.