The church’s definition of dating seems straight out of an episode of Leave It To Beaver. Many yearn for the simpler days when dating was straightforward, men did the asking and paying, and women had the right of refusal. But we live in a changing world, in which it’s more common to “hang out” and wonder if you are dating than to acknowledge it openly. In that spirit, we bring you today’s poll.
[poll id=”426″]
- Have you ever been unsure whether or not you were on a date? Spill the beans!
- What’s your definition of a date?
Discuss.
Wheat & Tares 
First, we must acknowledge that the “Leave It to Beaver” dating model is not a gospel principle. Yes, it is a model that was operative during the formative years of many church leaders and in the location where they lived, but it is not a gospel principle. That model was prevalent for the whole society, LDS and otherwise, in that geographical location.
That said, it seems to me that dating is whatever one wants it to be — it has no fixed and universal definition. That lack of definition causes some problems, like for the man who sees a date as a friendly encounter and a woman who sees it as serious courting, or vice versa or many other different possibilities. I prefer to think of a date as simply a social interaction, so I’m okay even with calling a group encounter a date. The key is in whatever adjective is used before the word, if any.
A date: When two people who seem to like each other “hang out”.
You are dating when you “hang out” with the same person to such an extent anyone else that may like you assumes you are taken.
You are “courting” whenever people start asking if you’re engaged or plan on marrying each other.
“Engaged”: there is a ring on it.
The only people I know who use the term “dating” are referencing to online-dating where it is more clear cut on what the intentions are. Everything else is a “hang out” until otherwise stated.
What we used to call “going together” (late ’70s – early ’80s) and our parents called “going steady” (’50s – ’60s) seems to be what my kids refer to as “dating,” which has no relationship to whatever it’s supposed to mean in Mutual. Terms need to be defined. “Petting,” for example, was obsolete language by the time I was trying to do it. (In my defense, I was not a member.)
NewlyHW,
I don’t think exclusivity (even implicit) has to be a requirement of “dating” does it? I always thought dating actually implied the opposite. Isn’t most dating happening in a non-exclusive context with “exclusive dating” being a special subset of dating when you get more serious (going steady, or being a couple)? At least that is how I learned it growing up in the late 80s and 90s.
Here in Korea it is not uncommon for exclusively dating couples to wear matching “couple outfits” when they go out. Matching shirts, pants, shoes etc. Completely coordinated outfits. It is a real thing up and down the age spectrum from 30s to younger. I would love to see that introduced into BYU 🙂
Yes-was unsure if I was on a date more than once. In retrospect, I was hanging out with a guy who wanted to get in my pants mostly.
This is why I will teach my girls that hanging out is fine but if they are interested in a boy or he is interested in them, he needs to take them out on
A DATE =
He plans it first
He calls to ask with the plan mentioned
He pays.
If a guy keeps coming around and it’s unclear to us, we may even set him straight about what constitutes dating our daughter and what doesn’t. Heck- we will likely have a plaque on our entryway wall.
I have done a 180 on this subject. Here’s why
Initiating a date (“Are you free Friday night? I would love to take you to a movie” vs stupid questions like “what are you doing Friday night? “)
1) Declare his intentions to himself.
2) Declare his intentions to a woman
Paying is a mans job (I used to vehemently disagree with this) because it usually forces him to narrow his focus to one woman and reveal his value of her. It removes confusion about “are we just hanging out”. It usually forces him to think about how much he is interested in her. Hanging out and going Dutch does not-that is how guys look for what the secular world labels a “*uck buddy”. I dated in this world and was not raised LDS. Converted after marriage.
While i was single and dating a full twelve+ years before marriage, My husband was the first guy to really date me.
Each time he initiated, his level of interest was declared.
He insisted on paying despite me whipping out my credit card. Despite me earning more than him. This said a lot about him and made me respect him. It leveled the income difference because he invested in me-he wasn’t offering to hang out. Despite being truly happy to pay my own way or reciprocate, in retrospect, I would not have respected him as much.
It forced me to think more seriously about him ad I didn’t want to use him. Me paying wouldn’t have made me think much about it.
A guy needs to plan a date as well because he is the one paying. He knows what he can afford and how much he wants to invest. He can plan a cheap date well and get the same respect with his details of the plan. Hubby took me to a waterfall for a picnic on our second date. It was romantic and thoughtful-wasn’t just hanging out. What he packed showed his consideration. He opened the car door for me then very intimately grabbed the seatbelt, reached across me and buckled it. Dang! Was super sexy. A guy taking a little control and planning is in general.
A guy should demonstrate he can plan something. Shows leadership capability. Most importantly, once a woman marries a guy, she usually coordinates date nights and social outings so it’s nice especially for a guy to take on that burden before marriage.
Does the church *have* a formal definition of dating?
I love Kerry Cronin’s definition of dating. I think she’s really recast it in a modern way that works. http://www.bcheightsblog.com/2014/02/kerry-cronins-three-levels-of-dating/
Jenonator, I’m not a prostitute so I don’t need a man to pay for my affections. I’m also not a toddler so I don’t need to be buckled in. Lord, everything about your comment shocks and saddens me so I can’t even address point by point anymore.
I honestly don’t use the word anymore. I can’t find a good generalizable definition for it, and it is such a nebulous term that unless you re-define it with everyone you meet, it isn’t of much use. So if a family friends asks me if I’m planning on going on a date, I always have to ask what they mean by “date.” I’m with New Iconoclast on this one. “Dating” seems to have gone the way of “petting”; a dated term falling out of the lexicon, used predominantly by older folks.
I definitely think that there’s a difference between “dating” and “being on a date”. My understanding of the term may seem strange/unfamiliar/foreign to many because I am (1) a millennial and (2) gay, but in my way of understanding it:
a) you don’t have to be exclusive to “go on a date.” (In fact, with online dating, you probably aren’t going to be exclusive, but you’ll be “going out on dates” with several people.)
b) “dating” (e.g,. “We’re dating”) comes with a title/exclusivity. That is, “I’m dating” my boyfriend/girlfriend. If there is no title, then we’re not dating, even if we’re going on dates.
I don’t know how modern millennial straight folks feel about it, but in the gay world, it doesn’t make sense for one person to pay all the time (and certainly not for it to be that “the man” pays…because for gay men, you have two, and for lesbians, you have zero.) I feel like there’s more equity, but each person can also take turns paying for both. To the contrary, if one person always has to pay for both, that can build up resentment IMO.
I personally don’t think the examples where there is no romance involved (either implicitly or explicitly) are dates or dating. Going back to the online dating world, there absolutely is a market for folks who want to meet other folks they are not romantically interested in just to do something social together. Notwithstanding that they might meet on an online dating site, whatever activity they do wouldn’t really be a date.
How about “two people who are romantically interested in one another spending time together socially”?
A date is pre-arrangement, with the possibility for love.
EOR-let me clarify for you since you missed the point entirely and insulted ne in the process for having a differing opinion than you. Your own words ate true for me also yet my original post still stands true for me. I am not a prostitute either so I don’t need a man to pay. I think that was quite obvious in the post where I stated I made more than him and was fully prepared to pay for myself.
Also in your words, I am not a toddler either so I don’t need a man to buckle my seatbelt for me. I liked it. I also like when my husband opens doors for me but guess what?– I can open my own Damn doors. Its just classy and it shows he values me. I hold the door for others to be kind as well.
I’m sorry for you that you can only perceive such behavior (a guy paying) as meaning you are somehow inadequate. You are narrowing your dating pool and the v type of man who will be attracted to you.