The proper means of increasing the love we bear our native country is to reside some time in a foreign one. ~William Shenstone
I’ve been living in Singapore, a small island nation off the tip of Malaysia, since February of this year. Although I’ve traveled in 20 countries and lived in the Spain as a missionary, this is my first time living and working in Asia. Whenever you live or travel away from your home country, you gain a different perspective. You may begin to see your country as an outsider does. You notice the values and assumptions you hold (that are not shared by your new neighbors) or things that you take for granted in your everyday life. Some aspects of your new country will be superior (in your opinion), and some will be inferior (in your opinion). You often notice things that are “more” or “less” in your new culture. For example, here are a few observations about Singaporeans from my American perspective:
- They are more materialistic than Americans.
- They are harder working than Americans.
- They are less efficient than Americans.
- They are more politically involved than Americans.
For those of you not familiar with Singapore, there are 4 official languages here: English, Mandarin, Malay, and Tamil. Nearly everyone speaks English and Singlish (a version of English that has structural elements of other Asian languages) as well as one or more other languages. The average salary is $53,000, and the average monthly rent is $3500. It is a very diverse country with over 40% of residents expats (from all over the globe). Over 60% of the country are practicing Buddhists. Only 14% are Christian.
Here are some things living in Singapore has reinforced for me about Americans:
- Americans eat a lot of cheese. Seriously, it’s in just about every recipe I have from the U.S., but you will really not find a lot of Asian recipes with cheese.
- We are masters of sarcasm. I didn’t realize this until discovering that most Singaporeans (especially those that speak both English and Mandarin) do not use tone to convey an opposite meaning. So, when you make a sarcastic remark, people usually just think you literally meant what you said.
- Law suits are how we solve problems in our country. Law & Order has to be about the most successful franchise in the U.S., for good reason. And despite all the lawyer jokes, it’s not a terrible system. Anyone can essentially “have their day in court,” and your case may create precedent that has a bearing on future cases.
- The U.S. media truly sets the tone in America. While this is true in many countries, one thing I’ve seen even more clearly as an outsider is how much the media controls the American conversation. And topics seem to go around all in circles with a specific shelf life (Jon Stewart often points this out). But this becomes even more apparent when I can see the same stories from a different perspective (in this case, one that is more friendly to business).
- Americans are firmly middle class. Our rich are mostly upper middle class, and even our poor have middle class values. We believe in going from rags to riches, and in truth, we respect the wealthy who are self-made, not wealthy by inheritance. We look down on those who flaunt their wealth as being insecure.
- We are incredibly efficient and have amazing self-service solutions. Pizza rolls, boneless chicken wings, self-check out, Costco, pay at the pump, toilet sensors that flush for you: these are some basic American conveniences. Personally, I think this also ties to the American dream. In other countries, the “dream” is to become wealthy and be served by others, not to have modern conveniences that simplify our middle class lives. And for all the hoop-la about German efficiency, I experienced the slowest hotel check out process ever in Frankfort. Their airport security was not terribly efficient either, although it was, ahem, thorough.
- Hollywood is unparalleled. The great American cultural exporter is Hollywood. Even countries that dislike America watch our movies and TV shows. I’m not knocking foreign films and TV shows. I’m fond of Outnumbered (UK sitcom) and An Idiot Abroad (UK travel show), and I enjoy a lot of the gritty Australian films. There are some incredible foreign movies from all sorts of countries. China can’t be beat for arty movies about sex with ghosts, and if sex with robots is your thing, Japan and Korea are top of the charts. Bollywood is very entertaining if you like splashy spontaneous dance numbers in the middle of your rom-coms. Italy and France are great at “war of the sexes” movies with weird, semi-sadistic twists. But no one puts out as much content as we do, and our quality is higher than most countries’ films.
- We are relentlessly politically correct. Why? See reason #3. Honestly, I prefer our over-the-top political correctness to the openly racist and sexist comments that are the alternative.
- American kids grow up faster. Why? See #2 and #7. American kids are more socially adept, sassy, and fashionable. Unlike in Asia, we expect kids to reject their parents and rebel as a rite of passage.
- We relish our independence. If possible, we avoid knowing our neighbors and don’t feel obligated to house our relatives indefinitely. We don’t feel obligated to spend our evenings and weekends with our work colleagues. We like our down time.
These are just a few of my own observations about Americans that are specifically a contrast to living in Singapore. Are any of these surprising to you? What traits of your home country have you discovered from traveling or living abroad? Discuss.
Wheat & Tares 
I only know that upon completing my mission and after landing at Boston (Logan Int’l), when changing planes I had to walk pavement in between terminals. In spite of it being a blizzard, I took a moment and kissed the ground. Be it ever so crumbled, there’s no place like home…
The proof of the greatness of America, problems and all, is the net inflow versus outflow. Sez it all…
I’m glad you noticed this, because it definitely is true. And the biggest source of news in America today is Fox News. They definitely set the tone.
Dan, it is interesting just what a success Fox and CNN have been with partisan shifts. Fox isn’t half the news, but it was the only home for the non-Democrats.
I think it has a mythic importance to the left as a counterweight, albeit still a minority one.
Sad that what is basically an overgrown cable channel (Fox) is number one for news, and number two (the reborn leftists) is number two.
Tells you that regardless of labels, the “liberal” media is centrist to an extent, though to the center left of their audience, not that far to the left.
Hawk, I’ve found being overseas an interesting experience myself. Saudia was a real perspective, as was how friendly Paris was (in a nice way).
HG, nice post. We’ve lived in Asia (twice) and Latin America. Although we’d return to Asia again in a heartbeat, we do like home.
My first time in Asia (we lived in Japan), I was shocked (but shouldn’t have been — naive little me) to realize that there’s a big difference among Asian countries. I fortunately did not make that same mistake when we moved to Venezuela.
Yes, everyone should be an expat at least once in their life. Being a missionary doesn’t count.
Very Interesting. I observed a lot of the same things when I started traveling overseas. Here are a few of my observations:
1. Americans are very sheltered about the things of the world. They mostly have no idea what goes on in other countries. American Exceptionalism blinds them to the fact that life in some other countries is as good or better than the US.
2. Most people outside the US love some of or all of American Culture. They may not admit it, but they do. EVen the French. AS hawk reported, American movies and TV are everywhere. In some countries, it dominates the airwaves. I’ve seen almost every one of my most favorite movies played somewhere in the world in a different language. I even saw West Side Story in the theater in Swedish!
3. Americans can be ugly, expecting those in other countruies to automatically speak English and treat them badly if they do not. Some make zero attempt at speaking a few words of the country’s language. I’ve never encountered any issues if I tried to say even a few words in the native language, even in France.
As for Singapore, I’ve always characterized it as living with your parents as a grown up. They still try to give you advice, even if you do not need it. And, they expect you to take it every time without a question.
A few observations:
1. Like Jeff mentioned, Americans are sheltered. They are fairly ignorant about what goes on in the world.
2. The average American tourist is loud, obnoxious, and boorish. It is no surprise, for example, why they feel French people are rude. If you have a bit of respect of other cultures and make a bit of effort, people around the world have gone out of their way to help you, even in Paris. 🙂
3. There’s no delicate way to put it, but Americans are FAT. The first thing I notice when arriving at an American airport is how fat everyone is (for an interesting graphic showing these trends, see the CDC obesity map. It’s shocking.)
4. At the end of the day, everyone basically wants the same things.
I challenge the notion that being a missionary doesn’t count. A missionary’s life is fairly one-track, yet that one track takes him into hundreds of homes, into places that business expats don’t go. I didn’t see but a couple expats in the towns and neighborhoods I knew as a missionary. Conversations with former missionaries assigned to my hometown showed that they knew the place in ways that I hadn’t growing up in my part of it. Living in Baltimore, I appreciated how my stake missionary calling did the same thing for me, taking me places where my classmates had not the least connection or experience. For life in business and that social strata, though, missionary experience doesn’t count.
#6 Dave: I guess I’m with John Mansfield on this one. To be sure my expat experiences were very different from my missionary experience. In my expat experience, I spoke much less of the target language, lived much differently from the local population and enjoyed economic benefits that most of the local population would never know.
I saw a different world as an expat than I did as a missionary to be sure. Not that one world was more or less complete, or better; they were just different.
(That said, I would agree that serving as a missionary in Country X does not make one an expert on that country, but then neither does living there as an expat.)
Mike:
Let’s be honest, though, the info the CDC uses on that map to calculate obesity rates isn’t exactly very scientific. It’s a straight BMI calculation which puts me (at 6′, 200#) as dangerously close to be obese. The problem is, I’m healthy, athletic and muscular. The BMI calculation doesn’t even account for any of that, it just assumes that given a specific height, you should weigh X pounds or else you’re defined as obese.
It’s an incredibly stupid calculation, IMO. Sure it might net some valid conclusions (i.e. a 6′, 400# dude will be obese), but it totally ignores body type and muscle make-up.
For example, The Rock (Dwayne Johnson) is obese by the CDC’s standards, Tom Brady borders on obesity and is overweight, Tom Cruise is obese, Brad Pitt borders on obesity (BMI of 28) and so on.
Americans might be overweight by world standards, but using the BMI to advocate that position makes absolutely no sense.
Re Dan
Yeah, FoxNews makes me sad. I wish there was a place for the other side that wasn’t so ridiculous. I think FN is FAR more ridiculous than the news programs of the other side too. Sad days.
Re Hawk-
This is a fun post. I have a good friend from Singapore here working on a PhD. He is definitely sarcastic. Maybe he’s abnormal, or has picked it up here. It took me a long time to get used to his accent. When I first met him I asked him what his native language was. He responded “English” at which point my jaw dropped. He speaks a dialect of English that’s closer to British English but has a twist. Even after 2 years, I still have a hard time understanding him during a phone call.
I’m actually slightly annoyed by our political correctness. One thing that was terribly refreshing for me living in Russia was the straightforward, blunt (sometimes rude even) manner of talking to people. No sugarcoating, just say it like it is. It was harder to take, I admit, but the upshot was that communication felt clearer, and more direct. In America, I think we unintentionally ambiguate a conversation by tip toeing around a collectively agreed upon sensitive subject.
Oh, and I agree, sarcasm is simply not appreciated, or similarly communicated outside the U.S. Took me a while to figure that one out.
I’ve traveled extensively in Latin America, and I’d echo the three points that Jeff Spector made in his last comment. And at least in the middle to upper classes, it’s surprising how much of U.S. culture has taken root — it’s much easier to find a U.S. movie (subtitled) playing in the local theater than one filmed in a Spanish-speaking country, for example.
I also found surprising how much many people are tied into politics, both local and global. (And I’d bet most Americans can’t name even the leaders of Canada or Mexico.) Not all the images they have of the U.S. are accurate (they envision our everyday life as being surrounded more more violence than it is, for example), but they still understand us better than we understand them.
And, yes, we’re fat.
My $0.02:
1) In France, except for houses, apartments, and industrial spaces, most privately owned land is open for walking, hiking, etc. Americans feel that ownership of land usually implies the exclusion of other people from that land. This is a very different attitude towards private property.
3) Americans tend to feel that money give you the right to anything. A colleague told me about a time where an ex-pat on American insurance had an eye problem. She said that she called a French doctor to get him an appointment, mentioning that he was willing to pay above market rates. When she mentioned that the doctor canceled the appointment to take the American, she started to cry because of the injustice that two productive members of society would have different access to medical care. Many people have a strong idea of social justice. The idea that humans have intrinsic value and therefore should be able to have the basics is much weaker in the U.S.
3) French people live on average much longer than Americans. Americans are focused on GDP and economic security more than on health or longevity.
I love France. I’ve been there more than 40 times for work. I love French people. In all their quirkiness by US standards, they are fun to be around. My only beef is that they will talk and talk and talk and discuss and discuss and not take action. If you wake up in the middle of the night, you’ll find French talk shows that have been on for hours and hours. The only problems I have ever had in any country have been largely self-inflicted because I didn’t understand something correctly. People have always been nice.
I cannot say the same thing for folks in the US. I’ve even found folks in Salt Lake to be quite rude.
My experiences living in Ukraine both as a missionary and in an internship a few years later with a wife and son echo many of the observations already made here. I’ll just add a couple others that I noticed.
1. Americans in general (and by comparison) dress like slobs. In Ukraine, you always wear dress shoes (women almost always in heels). Jeans are as informal as you can get and they still need to fit well, be accompanied with the aforementioned footwear, and have a nice top.
2. Americans only consume media made in America. On the radio in Ukraine you can hear hit songs from the US, UK, France, Germany, India, etc. Same goes with television programming. I feel like we’re missing out.
I suspect you can’t find much cheese over there because many Asians are lactose intolerant. Only Northern Europeans (and their descendants) have the ability to digest milk into their adulthood. Trying to go without dairy in the US, you realize how many meals have dairy in them (it’s a lot).
It sounds fascinating. I never realized how much I have to be grateful for as a woman until living in Russia. While the US has ways to go, it is miles away from a culture which has laws against the abuse of women, but which are not often enforced.
My wife pointed out that I should add that the US does often listen to music from the UK. However, we still can’t watch programming from there without first re-writing it for “an American audience.” Nor do we listen to music from countries other than the UK. I’d imagine if it hadn’t been for the Beatles we wouldn’t bother.
There has been significant popular song from Sweden, Germany and a few other places. But it is generally in the style of US/UK music. Seldom would you hear an indigenous song from another country other than the UK.
It’s that English only thing… 🙂
My mom’s cousin in New Zealand at first didn’t want my wife and I to stay with her when we went to visit, she’s big into politics and very much a new liberal. Of course, after we went there she warmed up to us and was very nice.
We stayed with a mormon family down there one night and the father talked about how great UT (and the US) is (he visited with his family once). He would talk about how clean American TV is, I don’t know what he is talking about, I always thought our programming is pretty filthy, I guess, I just haven’t watched that much TV elsewhere.
I prefer Asian restaurants to American. In the US it seems many, but not all, are fairly loud and obnoxious with the music and how dark the make the atmosphere. We took out some Japanese businessmen and the restaurant was loud and very dark, you had to yell to get the person sitting across from you to be able to hear, the bill was about $120/person. When we went to Japan the fancy restaurant had it’s own room and we had probably 7 courses.
Apparently Japan’s strip clubs are very benign to the US strip clubs, I haven’t been to either so I can only comment on what I’ve heard.
Also, I do think American’s are egocentric. It is evidenced even on this blog where people commenting on 9/11 refused to discuss the elephant in the room, i.e., our treatment of other nations/cultures by our military and CIA, etc and how that effects their view on us and why they would have disdain towards us, instead, the focus was on the human condition from only the American point of view, no mention of all the havoc caused by us on the other cultures, how many families have been ripped apart by are murderous ways.
Oh, btw, just wanted to tell Dan before he starts voting my comments with a thumbs down, I love you man, you’re a great guy Dan.
Jeff, someone explained to me that meetings in France assume 1) that the leader will make a decision based on his priorities, and 2) everyone has the right to express themselves whether they agree with the leader or not. The goal of a meeting in the US is often to identify and agree on an action plan. Maybe this is related in some way to your experiences. It seems to match mine.
Paul 2: You raise an interesting point about international experience (and this is where an expat work assignment might give a completely different view vs. a mission), namely the relationship between bosses and subordinates and how decisions are made in those contexts.
The need for consensus in Japan, the need for the boss to be “right” in Latin America, the combative (rather than collaborative) decision making process in Korea — I’m probably over-generalizing even by country — present models unique from an American “democratic” approach.
#11 Jon S: It’s an incredibly stupid calculation, IMO
Whether the BMI is a “valid” calculation doesn’t take into account body types, as you said. That being said, there is a direct correlation between BMI and anesthesia risk, annual cost to the health care system, diabetes risk, cardiovascular risk, etc.
Also, for the CDC map, BMI has been calculated the same way for all of the maps, which makes it at least internally valid. Over the time of the CDC map, the average height in the US has increased 1/2 inch, and we have roughly the same genetic background/body type. Yet given that, over the past 25 years the BMI has skyrocketed in the US. So either everyone has, on average, become more healthy, athletic and muscular or we’ve basically become more fat. Do you really think it’s the former?
Stephen,
Are you suggesting that CNN is somehow the equivalent of Fox News for liberals? You don’t know liberals, or CNN, or Fox News, or conservatives for that matter. CNN was interested in the news, and they did a relatively decent job at portraying it without bias. Fox News does NOT care about bias. They blare their bias out 24/7. To compare CNN to Fox News is like to compare a bee to a bear. Yes, they both start with the letter b. Yes, they both have one syllable. Yes, they are both of the Animal Kingdom. But otherwise, there’s nothing the same about them.
Jeff,
What? take a look at the news today!
Sure sounds like taking action to me. Frankly, the French far surpass any other society in terms of taking action.
People still watch mainstream media? Hmm, I guess I’ve been out of the loop. I thought everything was on the internet now.
I enjoy CNN a lot. I have really enjoyed the French and the Italiens. It us amazing how short and thin the French are compared to Americans.
I have only been to one Arab country, it was interesting. Canada and Alaska are interesting as well.
But, I think we need to experience other countries and other perspectives.
Is … not … us … typo.
Hi Dan, If I understood Jeff S. correctly, he meant that meetings are long and don’t result in an agreed on action plan.
Going on strike is a different thing. Strikes don’t usually get 100% participation of union members, so the action is typically not unanimous.
One thing that was interesting to me is that most strikes in the education system are not usually about money or health benefits, but are rather about discontent with the strongly nationalized curriculum and its evolution. This time it is about larger class sizes, but lots of times it is not. One thing that is interesting from an American point of view is that teacher’s strikes are not about salary.
Paul,
That’s probably all true. I merely did a google search for “french protest” and that happened to be in the news right now. I was thinking of the bigger protest that occurred earlier in the summer. And of course ever since the inception of the French Republic in one of the most visceral revolutions in the history of the world, the French have “come to action” whenever they felt it was necessary. I can’t speak to the notion that French people talk more than finish deciding on something. I haven’t lived in France and participated in such meetings there to make a judgment of that. But to say, stereotypically, that the French don’t act, just doesn’t mesh with reality.
Paul,
” namely the relationship between bosses and subordinates and how decisions are made in those contexts.”
It is critical to understand the way different cultures work. to be an American and barge in like a “Bull in a Chinashop” and use American tactic to do business will lead to bad feelings and bad decisions.
“Going on strike is a different thing. Strikes don’t usually get 100% participation of union members, so the action is typically not unanimous.”
Going on strike is a very passé approach in countries like France, Italy, Spain, etc. They happen almost every day. They are more a place to allow those people to vent more so than a teechnic to affect change.
They typically do not result in action.
I can assure you French people have difficuly making decisions. I live it today still.
I enjoyed your list but I would contest a couple of your points
1. In America you may eat a substance that you call cheese, but that luminous yellow chemically enriched product is not actually cheese. Europe is the centre of proper cheese (not that I am biased, living in the country that invented chedder) and you can not compare the cheese here to the yellow product that pretends to be cheese.
2. I think masters of sarcasm is an exaggeration. Having seen countless missionaries here in the UK I have come to the conclusion that many do not really understand sarcasm but its more a bad caricature of sarcasm. Admittedly this may just be due to the prominence of Utah missionaries, rather then a british superiority in sarcasm.
3. Law suits are all well and good in solving problems, but really it just favours those who are rich enough to afford a decent lawyer or solicitor.
6. You say efficient. We say lazy. Here in the socialist haven of the UK we like the work ethic and putting effort into making dinner, I think that many of the timesavers come at a cost in other forms. Googling to look something saves time, but is not as fulfilling as researching it in a library yourself. Plus self service is NOT as quick as using a checkout person.
I find it interesting that in being in another culture we learn as much about our own culture as we do our own.
#32 Jeff: especially when one company does business with a local company. In my large multinational company, we have a “culture” that permeates most areas where we have operations. It is not strictly American, but is flavored by the local culture in small ways.
(In fact, given the large number of Europeans and Australians in our firm, I’d guess our corporate cultures is quite an amalgam of various nationalistic cultures.)
Paul:
“In my large multinational company, we have a “culture” that permeates most areas where we have operations. ”
Yeah, I work for one of those as well. so, yes, there is that WW Corporate culture, but it is influenced by the locals as well. We’re not as “American” as we once were.
Hawk:
I generally agree with your list and see things much the same way. I love the conveniences you pointed out, especially the self check out. Also, the media clearly sets the tone with the networks having a huge left slant, except of course Fox. As America is right of center, this is why they are so popular as far as political commentary. I think their ratings are more than MSNBC, CBS, ABC and CNN combined.
One of the things you only touched on slightly is the general lack of respect some of our kids have for their elders. This is one of the things I liked most about Japan was the respect the youth showed towards their parents and the elderly in general.
And yes, we are a fat nation. This brings images of Katrina when the military transport helicopters could barley fly with their beefy loads. We need to cut the cheese and stick to the vegetables.
Hi Dan, I think I have a better idea of what you meant by “action”. If I understood it right, this would match up to what I see as the French way of looking at social conflict. They feel that if things get too unjust or go too poorly, the people will have a revolution in the streets and overthrow the government. Even tame strikes connect in some way with these ideas, even if they know the strike is just speaking out against change they can’t prevent.
For them, spontaneous society-wide insurrection against the authorities and governing classes is part of the national mythos, and you hear people talking like this all of the time. The dark mythos in the U.S. is that the government will collapse and afterwards you just have survivalists with guns. I think bullet sales figures would support this idea. Fortunately for us, the mormon version is more cheerful, it features a stake president or two and some GAs plus all the survivalists and guns 🙂
Jeff, I am sorry you met indecisive French people. I have come to realize that the “lining things up” phase is very slow, especially in anything involving public authorities, and more things here do. Getting everyone’s agreement is very slow, but once the agreement is there, things move quite fast. Building go up fast once all of the pieces of funding are in place. There is a lot of co-funding of projects, so many different parties contribute and they all have their rules and procedures. Not sure if this part of my comment matches what you were trying to convey.
yeah, Paul 2, that’s my impression of the French.
My impression of the French is that we bailed them out twice from total destruction and they have absolutely no gratitude or appreciation for the sacrifice that we made – both in lives and treasure.
Hi Will, People have stopped my family on the street to thank us for what GIs did in France in 1944 even though my family doesn’t personally deserve their gratitude. There is a cemetery with > 10K GIs buried in it near here and most people know those GIs are there. At parties, people all know the details of Patton’s operation. There were also lots of 9/11 10 year events here—lots of sympathy still for the U.S. I think the gratitude is still here.
In my opinion gratitude is different from doing what the U.S. wants. But that is what you get when you liberate people, they just do what they want, especially French people.
Jake – I think your exceptions are biased on a comparison of the UK with the US. What I am finding by living in Asia is that the US is a lot like all anglo countries and Western countries in general. The real differences are between non-Western and Western countries.
As for your cheese remark, that is a socio economic question. So-called American cheese is an undigestible abomination, but a sharp Wisconsin Cheddar is very nice, and there are some outstanding cheeses in other dairy-rich states like Pennsylvania. It’s also very easy to find all varieties of European cheeses inexpensively in the US.
As to your argument that American conveniences are laziness, that’s rich coming from the 35 hour work week European. The UK is no stranger to convenience cooking – M&S has great food to go as does Pret a Manger. If you think self-serve is slower than a cashier, I would love to take you to the grocery store with me. When labor is cheap, there is no motivation to improve efficiency. The check out people I encounter here are very slow and inattentive except those from India who are generally much friendlier and faster. In the US, cashiers are very speedy. Likewise, full service gas pumps are rendered inefficient by their inability to handle credit card payments unless you go inside. These types of inefficiencies are quickly stamped out in the US.
Jmb275 – as to the sarcasm, I do find that the more Western-exposed the person is, the more they “get” sarcasm. Mostly this is self-selection. Those who prefer Asian culture usually do not grasp it. Singapore is very divided between Asian culture and Western. Americans don’t corner the market on sarcasm. Most Western languages use tone to convey meaning in this way.
Threadjack: There wouldn’t be a United States had they not helped us in the Revolutionary War. I believe for that alone, they deserve respect, or at least civility.
Paul 2: I live in the US on the West coast, and in the desert, you can walk pretty much anywhere no matter who owns the land. Perhaps it’s different where it rains more, but I could walk for miles and I doubt anyone would raise an eyebrow out here.
I haven’t lived outside of the US, but some Irish friends have told me how appalled they were by how much skin the women showed. I’m not sure that’s true in other areas though, as temperatures rise above 100 for about six months of the year here.
re 42,
hawkgrrrl,
That reminds me of an article I read once about Japan:
I wonder if there is a difference between appreciation/usage of sarcasm vs. passive aggression?
Re Hawk-
Also, I’m guessing my friend is in the Western portion of the divide. He was also raised Christian (Methodist I think), and his family was in the upper 5% of wealthy Singaporeans. I suspect he is not a very good representative sample of a normal Singaporean in any case.
Hi LovelyLauren, I guess I was trying to say that private land that is under cultivation or is forested is open to the public in France and it tends to be fenced off in the US. For example the river near our house has paths on both side that are open to the public that skirt unfenced farmland. You are right that there are huge unsettled parts of the US bigger than all of France and public land is usually accessible by Americans.
We just moved to Munich a few months ago, and I can’t help but comment on the major problem/difference we’ve noticed here: we can’t find a decently priced good cheddar. I also don’t mean the yellow wax, but the good cheddars from Vermont (we came from CT, and every time we went to Sharon, VT, we stopped at the Cabot cheese warehouse on the way for lots of free cheeses.). The only cheddar we’ve found was from Ireland — pretty good but insanely priced. As all of our recipes from the states with cheese use cheddar, we’re having some difficulties using our basic standard recipes.
Other than the cheese, my wife and I have both felt that living in Munich is a decidedly un-foreign experience. (until we went to the Oktoberfest last week…)
Andrew S: I think you are absolutely onto something. Although, I should also mention that while Indians are capable of passive-aggression, they are also keen on sarcasm. They may be the exception that proves that rule.
In Japan, I was doing an office visit and the team was very quiet (silent!), polite (bowing), respectful (avoiding eye contact). In the evening we had a summer party in the board room. One or two drinks in them, and these guys were on the tables. My Canadian colleague who lives in Tokyo said the Japanese word for drinking is “nomu” and they call this phenomenon “nomunication” (that you can only get people to communicate while drunk). In vino veritas!
This set of comments has considered a variety of locations around the globe, much more than is usual for a conversation of this sort, yet it still comes through to some degree that 21st Century Americans are not too different from characters in a 1930’s Fitzgerald short story, for whom “the world” = France.
The old Will is back, never really changed.
Will,
“My impression of the French is that we bailed them out twice from total destruction and they have absolutely no gratitude or appreciation for the sacrifice that we made – both in lives and treasure.’
It appears as Paul2 explained, you have no clue what you are talking about.
Hawk,
I always found the Japanese split personalities to be fascinating. Very bisness-like and formal during the day but boy, can they PARTY! They wear out us Americans after a hard day’s work. No wonder they all sleep on the trains!
Europe is the Cheese capital of the universe!!!!! Viva La France!
Guys, I don’t think this is the same old Will. He made one remark about France. Let’s cut a little slack here.
I am not an expat. regarding france, I went to the ww2 cemeteries on the beaches of normandie, and the displays there were very grateful for american and british help in ww2, so I would say they are quite grateful.
I am not a fan of french cheese-I prefer american. on our european cruise, they did say that the french are rude to each other, not just tourists, so they said don’t take it personal. luckily, we met a canadian couple-the wife spoke french-so she translated everywhere we went-it was awesome. but her quebec french was different and they weren’t all that nice to her either.
Canadian-French is a very old dialect of French and so many modern French do not like it’s gutturalness. But it would be no different than a norther in the us looking down on a deep south person and their accent.
We are all snobs in our own way.
” However, we still can’t watch programming from there without first re-writing it for “an American audience.”
Most of the best US shows were thought up in Britain.
i love French cheese. mmmm…good, good stuff
#37 “We need to cut the cheese and stick to the vegetables.”
You know, it’s rare that you find a strait line that easy just left lying around.
Never mind. The cheese isn’t gonna cut itself.
Hawk,
Thanks for the note, but here is why I made the comment. My father-in-law was a Mission President over in that region of the world and my wife went to the public schools grades 6-8. She was treated like dirt for two reasons – one she was LDS and two she was an American. Not only was she treated that way, but her older siblings were as well. This was in the early 80’s and perhaps things have changed since then, but that was clearly the sentiment.
Hawk,
Undoubtedly they are biased from that comparison. Notwithstanding they remain true. The UK is simply more sarcastic (on average about 43% more). But I agree the differences between the two is one of degree between the UK and US rather then fundamentally. The west is more or less the same with only differences of magnitude, whereas the east is a world apart from us (Literally and culturally).
Thank you for illuminating me into the world of American cheese. I feel like I have just come out of Plato’s cave and realised there is more to american cheese then toxic yellow stuff.
Maybe I am just incompetent at using them so need some expert training in them and perhaps its just English people but self-service takes FOREVER here. With constant beeps of ‘item not in bagging area’ and barcodes hidden away and old ladies asking the assistant about what button to press every second item. Ah. I can not imagine anything slower, therefor they must be crazily slow if they are slower then self service.
I will have you know that 35 hours is all we hard workers need. We can do in 35 what others do in 50 hours. As for convenience cooking in English we don’t actually have a word for ‘convenience cooking’ so it is actually a strange concept to us.
Dan,
“The old Will is back, never really changed.”
Whatever.
That has been my experience with the French; and, my wife’s who lived there for three years as a teen.
And good ole know it all Dan never changes either.
I have learned from this post that the sarcastic response of “who knew?” to the German finance official who called Obama Administration lectures on the Eurozone crisis “arrogant and absurd” might not get the point across to the Germans or French, but would be instantly grasped by the British. 😀
Will,
What the hell does that have to do with the price of tea in China? Or in other words, being grateful for America’s aid in WWII has absolutely nothing to do with how your wife was treated in France in the 1980s. What utter idiocy.
Henry,
I actually “liked” your comment. When you do know it all, you don’t need to change. 😀
Jake – I would love for you to see truly efficient processes. It really is amazing how good the US is at this. People in Asia work long hours, but far less efficiently, and I do agree with you that 35 hours can be more productive than 50 – in fact, it probably usually is. Self checkouts have been introduced here, but they are as inefficient as the slow human cashiers for the same types of reasons you cite. Not so in the US.
As to convenience foods that are readily available in the US, I also found these in Paris grocery stores: healthy, delicious frozen meals that could be heated up relatively quickly. Here that’s not the case at all. There are a few convenience foods, but they are not terribly healthy, nor are they comprehensive meals. Beyond frozen pizzas and dumplings, not much at all.
How about this sense that experience with other lands is important for understanding one’s own? Do Asians, Europeans and others also feel that years on another continent is valuable?
Who sez that doing a “foreign” mission doesn’t count? If anything, former LDS missionaries are highly sought after by Government agencies and firms needing a young man with not only language skills but also cultural affinity. Though a missionary may depart the country upon completion, the adopted country never leaves him. I’m still think fondly of Italy as a second home even though I recite Springsteen’s “Born in the USA”.
Did someone say a mission doesn’t count? I do think there is a difference, but it’s still experience living in a foreign land. I think of Spain as a home away from home, a place I would love to live again where I understand the culture and miss certain things about it.
“Do Asians, Europeans and others also feel that years on another continent is valuable?” Foreign travel is usually viewed as an asset to the upper classes or those striving to better their class. In England, it was very common to do “The Grand Tour” – spending time after graduation touring other European countries and better understanding ancient civilizations. Many Asians and Indians send their children to do their degrees in anglo countries because they feel it gives them a leg up.
Wow, a lot of great observations, and I plan to come back when I have time!!
I’m an American who has lived for more than ten years in Europe, and it has been a fascinating experience to learn about my own cultural biases by contrast to the people I meet.
Responding to the original post:
More consumerist than Americans…? Wow, I hate to even imagine that could be — but, I guess, anything is possible.
Responding to @7 — quite true, overall.
Regarding point #3, it’s true that most people appreciate when visitors at least try to speak their language. OTOH, Europeans who travel within Europe generally communicate with each other in English (even though/when English isn’t the native language of either person). It’s easier for everyone to only have to learn one foreign language to communicate across country lines, and English seems to be the “Lingua Franca” of the moment. So, even if anglophones kind of luck out in this deal, it’s not that big a deal to get by on English. But as Jeff says, you’ll do better if you at least make an attempt to speak the local language rather than assuming that others speak English.
I can hardly make a list of all the things I’ve learned, but one (positive?) point about Americans stands out:
In France and Switzerland (at least) people seem a bit more willing to decide that others are doing it wrong when it comes to parenting, and seem less inclined (than Americans) to be shy about criticizing random people they don’t know.
I thought of your post when I was reading this other post by a lady working in retail.
It made me laugh, trying to imagine what would happen if that had taken place in Switzerland. First, that mom would have immediately gotten the stink-eye by every client in the store. And if that didn’t motivate her to immediately control her kids, she would likely have gotten quite an earful of Swiss-German from a number of people she has never met before…